Official FASTRACK Subway Repair Discussion

[Caelestor]

No, I recall the running via 8 Av from Roosevelt to Jay St during the 6 Av fastrack. Since the ends at Whitehall overnights, the can't turn there anymore

 

As part of the IND, the can just take the route into Brooklyn.

 

Edit to below: You only really need one shuttle train to go back and forth, so probably just reverse at Lex - 63 St.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Caelestor

[N6 Limited]

Which level will the shuttle go to @ 63rd & Lex? Will the trains actually be turning at 57th St?

[Wallyhorse]

No, I recall the running via 8 Av from Roosevelt to Jay St during the 6 Av fastrack. Since the ends at Whitehall overnights, the can't turn there anymore

With that in mind, perhaps what should have been done was have the coming from Coney Island run via the to 96th-2nd (or Times Square since the I believe runs local anyway late nights).

 

Other work-around could have been where the coming from Coney Island runs to Broadway-Lafayette and terminates there (there is I believe a crossover to get to the southbound track to go back).

 

This is why they need to build a crossover on the southbound side north of Broadway-Lafayette.  

[Q43LTD]

With that in mind, perhaps what should have been done was have the coming from Coney Island run via the to 96th-2nd (or Times Square since the I believe runs local anyway late nights).

 

Other work-around could have been where the coming from Coney Island runs to Broadway-Lafayette and terminates there (there is I believe a crossover to get to the southbound track to go back).

 

This is why they need to build a crossover on the southbound side north of Broadway-Lafayette.  

Oh God, I think my head hurts now

[CenSin]

With that in mind, perhaps what should have been done was have the coming from Coney Island run via the to 96th-2nd (or Times Square since the I believe runs local anyway late nights).

 

Other work-around could have been where the coming from Coney Island runs to Broadway-Lafayette and terminates there (there is I believe a crossover to get to the southbound track to go back).

 

This is why they need to build a crossover on the southbound side north of Broadway-Lafayette.  

What does the and the have in common north of midtown Manhattan?

[Q43LTD]

Let's see Wallyhorse's plan:

runs in two sections:
205 St-2 Av via the line and...

96 St-Stillwell Av via 2 Av/Broadway.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too confusing

[Wallyhorse]

Let's see Wallyhorse's plan:

runs in two sections:

205 St-2 Av via the line and...

96 St-Stillwell Av via 2 Av/Broadway.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too confusing

Actually, that would have depended on the .  If the runs local then, it would be:

 

runs in two sections:

205th Street-2nd Avenue via the and

Stillwell Avenue-Coney Island to 42nd Street-Times Square on the Broadway Line.

Transfer between the two lines is available at 34th Street-Herald Square

 

The other one that I noted alternatively:

runs in two sections:

205th Street-2nd Avenue via the and

Stillwell Avenue-Coney Island to Broadway-Lafayette via regular route.

Transfer between the two lines at Broadway-Lafayette

 

The second would actually be easiest.

[Q43LTD]

Actually, that would have depended on the .  If the runs local then, it would be:

 

runs in two sections:

205th Street-2nd Avenue via the and

Stillwell Avenue-Coney Island to 42nd Street-Times Square on the Broadway Line.

Transfer between the two lines is available at 34th Street-Herald Square

 

The other one that I noted alternatively:

runs in two sections:

205th Street-2nd Avenue via the and

Stillwell Avenue-Coney Island to Broadway-Lafayette via regular route.

Transfer between the two lines at Broadway-Lafayette

 

The second would actually be easiest.

I would use W 4 as a terminal as has done before during the 6 Av Fastrack

[Wallyhorse]

I would use W 4 as a terminal as has done before during the 6 Av Fastrack

That would be ideal, except that this one may include work at West 4th itself.

[Daniel The Cool]

No, I recall the running via 8 Av from Roosevelt to Jay St during the 6 Av fastrack. Since the ends at Whitehall overnights, the can't turn there anymore

That was a different Fastrack. The has always ran via the 8th Avenue between West 4th Street and Roosevelt Avenue during the 6th Avenue Fastrack. That train Fastrack you're thinking of was via the between Jay Street and West 4th Street with the ending early.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Daniel The Cool

[GreatOne2k]

With that in mind, perhaps what should have been done was have the coming from Coney Island run via the to 96th-2nd (or Times Square since the I believe runs local anyway late nights).

Other work-around could have been where the coming from Coney Island runs to Broadway-Lafayette and terminates there (there is I believe a crossover to get to the southbound track to go back).

This is why they need to build a crossover on the southbound side north of Broadway-Lafayette.

 

How about renaming the north part of the to since it is mainly running the route between 145 and W 4? MTA runs extended and service overnight for construction, so a late night could work in this case. That makes more sense than the or to 96 St-2 Av. Edited January 24, 2017 by GreatOne2k

[Daniel The Cool]

How about renaming the north part of the to since it is mainly running the route between 145 and W 4? MTA runs extended and service overnight for construction, so a late night could work in this case. That makes more sense than the or to 96 St-2 Av.

The and ran extended service overnight to actually replaced lines that didn't have access to their terminals in their respective routes. The Train via 8th Avenue to/from 2nd Avenue has happened many times and its less confusing than overnight Service running between 205th Street and 2nd Avenue.

[GreatOne2k]

The and ran extended service overnight to actually replaced lines that didn't have access to their terminals in their respective routes. The Train via 8th Avenue to/from 2nd Avenue has happened many times and its less confusing than overnight Service running between 205th Street and 2nd Avenue.

That would however eliminate the need for two different trains.

[Daniel The Cool]

That would however eliminate the need for two different trains.

1. Its not the first time they had the run in two sections.

 

2. 205th Street and 2nd Avenue are not even the last stops the Train normally use and the Train doesn't even run overnight to begin with so running the between 205th Street and 2nd Avenue will confuse passengers. Its the same reason why running overnight train service during the Broadway Fastrack won't run in two sections.

[paulrivera]

The two section isn't too confusing at all. It is quite a long trip to make however, because you have to take the , then the or across the river (depending what stop you get on/off at in Manhattan), then get another .

 

The weekend version of this GO is better but more confusing since the and flip routes in Brooklyn. Transferring *between* West End and Culver might be a challenge if the runs express on 4th Avenue and skips 9th Street. Surely they can't be that short sighted...

[Q43LTD]

That was a different Fastrack. The has always ran via the 8th Avenue between West 4th Street and Roosevelt Avenue during the 6th Avenue Fastrack. That train Fastrack you're thinking of was via the between Jay Street and West 4th Street with the ending early.

I may have had it confused with the as well. During the 8 Av Fastrack, it runs between Columbus Circle and Jay St via 6 Av

[Daniel The Cool]

First time since 2013.

 

 No trains between 161 St-Yankee Stadium and 205 St

 trains and  free shuttle buses provide alternate service
Late Nights, 10 PM to 5 AM, Mon to Fri, Feb 27 - Mar 3  •  Mar 6 - 10

 service operates between Stillwell Av and 161 St-Yankee Stadium*.
 Buses operate between Mosholu Pkwy  and 205 St.

Travel Alternatives
For service between 161 St and Bedford Pk Blvd, use nearby  stations instead.
For 205 St, take a  bus via Mosholu Pkwy .

• Transfer between  and  trains at 161 St-Yankee Stadium.
• Transfer between  trains and  buses at Mosholu Pkwy.

Station Shuttle Bus Stop 205 St Bainbridge Av at 206 St Mosholu Pkwy     Jerome Av at Mosholu Pkwy    Station Nearby  Station Bedford Pk Blvd Bedford Pk Blvd Kingsbridge Rd Kingsbridge Rd Fordham Rd Fordham Rd   182-183 Sts 183 St Tremont Av Burnside Av 174-175 Sts 176 St Mt Eden Av 170 St 170 St 167 St 167 St
*Bronx-bound trains skip 155 St, Feb 27 - Mar 3,
Coney Island-bound trains skip 155 St, Mar 6 - 10

[darkstar8983]

Question: Suppose the fastback program were to be expanded to operate weekends (similar to how the 6 Av Line work has flipped the  southern routes) on the 8 Av, Broadway Line, etc., or even weekdays (during less crowded weeks such as christmas week, fourth of july, August, spring break, etc.). How would you propose the reroutes in order to get maximum work done, but keep a 24/7 subway system moving.

[Wallyhorse]

4 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Question: Suppose the fastback program were to be expanded to operate weekends (similar to how the 6 Av Line work has flipped the  southern routes) on the 8 Av, Broadway Line, etc., or even weekdays (during less crowded weeks such as christmas week, fourth of july, August, spring break, etc.). How would you propose the reroutes in order to get maximum work done, but keep a 24/7 subway system moving.

I would think first you would need to build switches in places there are none at the moment (between the express tracks on the bridge level of Canal Street for example, same for Grand Street) so you can if necessary make the Bridge level station at Canal and the Grand Street station terminals if need be as well as making Essex Street able to platform 600' trains so it can be used as a terminal coming from Broadway-Lafayette (as well as build a switch going into Broadway-Lafayette southbound) so you have greater flexibility in doing a fasttrack as a shutdown on Broadway or 6th or 8th Avenues can be absorbed by the other two lines on the west side.  Then you have far greater flexibility in being able to have some version of normal through such 1-2 week fasttracks.  

[Lance]

That's nice and all, but the MTA is not going to make all of those changes you've suggested there. If they had any interest in this, they would've done it a long time ago, specifically during the last leg of the Manhattan Bridge rehab when the north tracks were out of service. The idea that the MTA will justify the expense of adding switches and expanding the Essex St platforms for FASTRACK is fanciful at best, pure delusion at worst. No, to answer the question, if FASTRACK was expanded to weekends, we'd likely see many of the same service diversions that occur during the overnight program, possibly with slight modifications to account for increased ridership between weekend and late night periods.

[darkstar8983]

23 minutes ago, Lance said:

That's nice and all, but the MTA is not going to make all of those changes you've suggested there. If they had any interest in this, they would've done it a long time ago, specifically during the last leg of the Manhattan Bridge rehab when the north tracks were out of service. The idea that the MTA will justify the expense of adding switches and expanding the Essex St platforms for FASTRACK is fanciful at best, pure delusion at worst. No, to answer the question, if FASTRACK was expanded to weekends, we'd likely see many of the same service diversions that occur during the overnight program, possibly with slight modifications to account for increased ridership between weekend and late night periods.

What about during weekdays during low ridership weeks? How would you reroute the other weekday-only subway routes to accommodate? 

Example: a reroute of the  and  during a weekday 6 Av fastrack

or let’s say the Broadway Line is closed south of 34 St or north of 57 St-7 Av to Queensboro Plaza

 

and yes building switches are expensive, so let’s assume none of these “modifications” are in place

Edited January 8, 2018 by darkstar8983

[Wallyhorse]

8 hours ago, Lance said:

That's nice and all, but the MTA is not going to make all of those changes you've suggested there. If they had any interest in this, they would've done it a long time ago, specifically during the last leg of the Manhattan Bridge rehab when the north tracks were out of service. The idea that the MTA will justify the expense of adding switches and expanding the Essex St platforms for FASTRACK is fanciful at best, pure delusion at worst. No, to answer the question, if FASTRACK was expanded to weekends, we'd likely see many of the same service diversions that occur during the overnight program, possibly with slight modifications to account for increased ridership between weekend and late night periods.

The Essex Street expansion would be the first station redo of a much longer-term project that would eventually have ALL of the stations on the Broadway-Brooklyn Line (starting with the stretch from Broad Street to Metropolitan Avenue on the  with the Manhattan stations on the Nassau-Centre Street portion done first) done first) be able to platform 600' trains.  

As for the switches, that probably is unrealistic but it is something that I think would need to be addressed because those are in some cases needed anyway for reasons that have ZERO to do with FASTRACK. 

[Lance]

21 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

What about during weekdays during low ridership weeks? How would you reroute the other weekday-only subway routes to accommodate? 

Example: a reroute of the  and  during a weekday 6 Av fastrack

or let’s say the Broadway Line is closed south of 34 St or north of 57 St-7 Av to Queensboro Plaza

 

and yes building switches are expensive, so let’s assume none of these “modifications” are in place

The only time when weekday ridership is relatively light is the period between Christmas and New Years. Outside of the emergency closure of the 53rd Street tunnels last month, I really don't foresee the MTA using this time period for major maintenance work.

13 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The Essex Street expansion would be the first station redo of a much longer-term project that would eventually have ALL of the stations on the Broadway-Brooklyn Line (starting with the stretch from Broad Street to Metropolitan Avenue on the  with the Manhattan stations on the Nassau-Centre Street portion done first) done first) be able to platform 600' trains.  

As for the switches, that probably is unrealistic but it is something that I think would need to be addressed because those are in some cases needed anyway for reasons that have ZERO to do with FASTRACK. 

Cool beans. We're talking about expanded FASTRACK, not your fantastical ideas for expansion. You don't have to weasel them in at every opportunity you get.

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, Lance said:

The only time when weekday ridership is relatively light is the period between Christmas and New Years. Outside of the emergency closure of the 53rd Street tunnels last month, I really don't foresee the MTA using this time period for major maintenance work.

Cool beans. We're talking about expanded FASTRACK, not your fantastical ideas for expansion. You don't have to weasel them in at every opportunity you get.

I was not weasling them in, but being able to do more with FASTRACK is a very viable reason to extend at least Essex Street so it can more easily be used as a terminal when needed from the 6th and 8th Avenue lines.  

[Lance]

In the five years the FASTRACK program has been in operation, has the MTA at any point considered adding more terminal capacity through either an increase in switches or platform extensions? The answer is no, isn't it? You have to remember the entire point of the FASTRACK program, which is to do as much maintenance work as possible without adding to the expense line unnecessarily. Your suggestion does not meet that criteria. Besides, what will a 600-foot platform at Essex St do for a FASTRACK-related service change? The nearby 2 Avenue and World Trade Center stations can terminate trains from the north quite well. Jay St is also a good terminal for when Fulton St/Culver service is suspended. What does an expanded Essex St provide that the other terminals mentioned above cannot?

For the record, I'm not against platform expansion in the East. However, in the context of what we're discussing here, it serves no point, nor does it solve a problem. There will likely never be a planned service change where both Cranberry and Rutgers (the usual suspects in FASTRACK work) are out of service concurrently, which renders your suggestion here moot.