Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[RollOver]

3rd av is where the SAS should be built under/over as there's a big space lacking subway service.

 

 

Interesting. That means it also runs parallel with the IND Grand Concourse Line. They might as well make a station complex transfers with the at 138th Street and the at 149th Street. Both the and can definitely be extending to the Bronx to share ridership. Riders living near the or can still get to Midtown Manhattan as Sixth Avenue and Broadway actually run parallel there, no problem. I doubt the Second Avenue Subway would need that many stops in the Bronx anyway, but just busier streets/avenues stops that the makes. That line alone may as well handle the IND GC Line itself while the turns at 145th Street every rush hour, midday, and evening instead if the decides to extend the SAS to the Bronx under 3rd Avenue and possibly Webster Avenue.

Edited December 26, 2012 by RollOverMyHead

[Metro CSW]

In the past, some studies and analysis resulted in the proposal being declined, but this seems possible in most cases. If I were doing the study, the SAS would probably just end as far up to Fordham, IMO. But that's just me.....

[realizm]

New photos of ongoing SAS construction as of January 2013. Courtesy of flickr.com:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/sets/72157632642076974/

[realizm]

In the past, some studies and analysis resulted in the proposal being declined, but this seems possible in most cases. If I were doing the study, the SAS would probably just end as far up to Fordham, IMO. But that's just me.....

 

They really should consider this soon. The is really heavily used despite the fact that the Grand Concourse Line is like parallel to this line by three blocks it seems. Ditto on WPR and Westchester Lines. The spur is already in the plans in phase 2 as we know already so thats proof initself that the MTA is anticipating growth in the Bronx necessitating the need for the Bronx extension. How they are going to do this either by reconfiguring existing els to IND dimensions or new construction we will see but studies already shows that overhaul of the IRT Els for the SAS is doable.

[MTARegional Bus]

They really should consider this soon. The is really heavily used despite the fact that the Grand Concourse Line is like parallel to this line by three blocks it seems. Ditto on WPR and Westchester Lines. The spur is already in the plans in phase 2 as we know already so thats proof initself that the MTA is anticipating growth in the Bronx necessitating the need for the Bronx extension. How they are going to do this either by reconfiguring existing els to IND dimensions or new construction we will see but studies already shows that overhaul of the IRT Els for the SAS is doable.

 

 

We will be dead by the time that happens 

[realizm]

We will be dead by the time that happens 

 

I loled hard on this one.

[mtattrain]

New photos of ongoing SAS construction as of January 2013. Courtesy of flickr.com:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/sets/72157632642076974/

Like the progress!

Edited February 1, 2013 by mtattrain

[ttcsubwayfan]

I don't know why, but the caverns in which they have excavated remind me of a rock climbing hall.

[Metro CSW]

They really should consider this soon. The is really heavily used despite the fact that the Grand Concourse Line is like parallel to this line by three blocks it seems. Ditto on WPR and Westchester Lines. The spur is already in the plans in phase 2 as we know already so thats proof initself that the MTA is anticipating growth in the Bronx necessitating the need for the Bronx extension. How they are going to do this either by reconfiguring existing els to IND dimensions or new construction we will see but studies already shows that overhaul of the IRT Els for the SAS is doable.

I would vote subway because I don't see possible location for the portal, unless I missed something. An EL would be better actually. Making it ADA capable could make the possibility of a suspended Bx55 route, but I'm not a fortune-teller sooo..... Just saying it's a possible proposal....

[realizm]

^ Good point. For the sake of the residents and business owners in the area. Building the el would create havoc for the thru auto traffic.  I would admit though due to the geography of the Bronx (drilling through rock requiring lots of blasting or a TBM capable of drilling through solid block which can be very expensive) would be a nightmare for the engineers and sandhogs.

[CenSin]

I don't know why, but the caverns in which they have excavated remind me of a rock climbing hall.

They should open parts of it for rock climbing. They'll raise some much needed funds by charging entry fees even if meager. LOL

[realizm]

As desperate for funds the MTA is I would'nt be suprised. Maybe even bungee jumping perhaps?

[CenSin]

Maybe even bungee jumping perhaps?

Jumps from street level all the way down to the track level…

[realizm]

Where do I sign up?

[R10 2952]

Lately I've been wondering- did the MTA ever consider constructing a station at 79th Street?

Having gone to middle school in that area, I've always found it surprising that they never considered putting a stop at the intersection of 2nd Avenue and 79th Street.

[Grand Concourse]

With how expensive it is to build a stop (dropping 10th av on the 7 line extension), it probably keeps the costs down and speeds up getting the rest of the line opened. Also given how they dropped the idea of having express track(s), it's the only way to make the local faster.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Grand Concourse

[Guest Lance]

@R10: Second Avenue in its current incarnation is the poor man's express. Spacing out the stations gives it the ability to run faster without having to actually provide express service.

[CenSin]

With how expensive it is to build a stop (dropping 10th av on the 7 line extension), it probably keeps the costs down and speeds up getting the rest of the line opened. Also given how they dropped the idea of having express track(s), it's the only way to make the local faster.

This in-between line is sort of like a "cockblocker" for real express and real local service then. Just enough points are served that arguments for more stations are weakened and the train is fast enough that the arguments for express service are also weakened. If express tracks are to be built, the motivation to do so will come only after the building of additional local stops.

[LTA1992]

Which is why I've always referred to it as a local express.

[Grand Concourse]

 

This in-between line is sort of like a "cockblocker" for real express and real local service then. Just enough points are served that arguments for more stations are weakened and the train is fast enough that the arguments for express service are also weakened. If express tracks are to be built, the motivation to do so will come only after the building of additional local stops.

of course it is, but the point is to start some service right now. Obviously if they could've done a cut and cover like with the other lines and built it with 4 tracks, maybe they could've done everything like the extra stops and express. But what's done is done, and we can hope that maybe they do build another set of tracks below for the express. I mean even 72nd was supposed to be a 3 track station which could've allowed for short turning trains without interrupting service. Edited February 14, 2013 by Grand Concourse

[CenSin]

of course it is, but the point is to start some service right now. Obviously if they could've done a cut and cover like with the other lines and built it with 4 tracks, maybe they could've done everything like the extra stops and express. But what's done is done, and we can hope that maybe they do build another set of tracks below for the express. I mean even 72nd was supposed to be a 3 track station which could've allowed for short turning trains without interrupting service.

Well, look on the bright side: the express tracks will pretty much be guaranteed to be separated from the local tracks so Fastrack on 2 Avenue won't be such a pain in the ass—close one tunnel and leave the other one running. In the mean time, you're right about one thing: cutting some corners allowed for some service rather than none.

[Grand Concourse]

What I wonder is will they open the line station by station or all at once? I'm kinda sure that once 72nd is done, they can open that first so they can allow the Q and F to both stop at 63rd-Lex. Ideally I'd opt for them to open up the line station by station assuming they have switches outside every station.

[lupojohn]

What I wonder is will they open the line station by station or all at once? I'm kinda sure that once 72nd is done, they can open that first so they can allow the Q and F to both stop at 63rd-Lex. Ideally I'd opt for them to open up the line station by station assuming they have switches outside every station.

It seems as though they're opening it station by station. 72nd, 86th and 96th will open during Phase 1 of the plan. There are already logos on R32 rollsigns in the form of a black letter in a white circle.

[Art Vandelay]

The line will open all at once. The only benefit before full opening will be a newly renovated 63/Lex with a new exit.  

[realizm]

The line will open all at once. The only benefit before full opening will be a newly renovated 63/Lex with a new exit.  

 

I would believe so.

 

When they opened the Archer Ave Extension back in December 1988 for revenue service, they opened all three stations (Van Wyck, Suphin Blvd  and Jamaica Center) on both the upper and lower level simultaneously in one shot with outstanding success. So judging by how the MTA handled the opening of the Archer Ave extension for revenue service back then, then I would agree with you on the fact that they will open the 2nd Ave Line in the same exact fashion, 63rd/Lex, 72nd, 86th and 96th Street stations all at once in December 2016.

Edited February 14, 2013 by realizm