checkmatechamp13 Posted December 8, 2012 Share #426 Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) They need to bring the M10 back downtown to Penn Station...the M20 cannot handle it alone and it's headways are to far apart. The M7's seem to bunch insanely (M7 covers way too much ground uptown IMO need needs to be straighten and streamlined).... It's funny because you will wait 20 mins along 7 AV, then a crushloaded M20 will come followed by half-dozen empty M7s (the Gang of M7s seems to always come behind the overcrowded M20). If not the M10 return, then send the M104's to Penn....The M20 only need the extra help down to Penn beyond there the M20 and the unreliable M7 pretty much gets the job done. We already discussed it earlier in the thread. See here. The problem is that there's no good place to end the M10. Edited December 8, 2012 by checkmatechamp13 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 9, 2012 Share #427 Posted December 9, 2012 Even if a shuttle was built along 125th street, I would still compliment it with adequate bus service, so I would keep the M98. The M101/LTD, M60, and Bx15 along 125th is more than adequate.... Getting rid of the M100 if a subway shuttle were built, wouldn't make bus service any less adequate along 125th..... M98 doesn't travel along 125th anyway, so that's a moot point regarding a 125th st shuttle...... In 2010 IMO, I would done a M5/M6 'marriage" w/ say the M6 could been extended to say 72nd/Broadway. So someone remembers this idea, I see..... really if reliability was an issue you wold want to KEEP M104 as is. M6 not realistic in its form north of houston I would change it. Yeah, agreed on the M104 point.... With the M6, what do you mean it's not realistic in its form north of houston? They need to bring the M10 back downtown to Penn Station...the M20 cannot handle it alone and it's headways are to far apart. The M7's seem to bunch insanely (M7 covers way too much ground uptown IMO need needs to be straighten and streamlined).... It's funny because you will wait 20 mins along 7 AV, then a crushloaded M20 will come followed by half-dozen empty M7s (the Gang of M7s seems to always come behind the overcrowded M20). If not the M10 return, then send the M104's to Penn....The M20 only need the extra help down to Penn beyond there the M20 and the unreliable M7 pretty much gets the job done. The problem is with the M7 - they're not gonna boost M20 service & extend M10's back southward because M7's bunch..... 1) Where would you end M10's or M104's around Penn? That's the problem.... Can't put it back over there along W. 31st st. where the M10 used to end.... 2) ...and how exactly would you streamline the M7 ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #428 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) The M101/LTD, M60, and Bx15 along 125th is more than adequate.... Getting rid of the M100 if a subway shuttle were built, wouldn't make bus service any less adequate along 125th..... M98 doesn't travel along 125th anyway, so that's a moot point regarding a 125th st shuttle...... Yeah I know but I had mentioned a few main corridors having a subway shuttle... 125th was just one of them used as an example, but you could swap out 125th for 181st... Edited December 9, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 9, 2012 Share #429 Posted December 9, 2012 Yeah I know but I had mentioned a few main corridors having a subway shuttle... 125th was just one of them used as an example, but you could swap out 125th for 181st... I understand that you said a few main corridors... I was specifically talking about one on 125th.... As for 181st... I'm not sure where you would/you could end a supposed subway shuttle of the sort on the Bronx end though..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted December 9, 2012 Share #430 Posted December 9, 2012 The simplest thing to do for 125th Street would to be extend the SAS to Riverside Drive.... As for 181st Street, you could have an idea for a Bronx crosstown there... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #431 Posted December 9, 2012 I understand that you said a few main corridors... I was specifically talking about one on 125th.... As for 181st... I'm not sure where you would/you could end a supposed subway shuttle of the sort on the Bronx end though..... lol... I don't either, but there is no question that it is a pretty congested corridor. Maybe if they extended the further north down the road you could justify having a shuttle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #432 Posted December 9, 2012 lol... I don't either, but there is no question that it is a pretty congested corridor. Maybe if they extended the further north down the road you could justify having a shuttle. I think you'd be better off having it as an extension of the itself. You allow people direct subway access to the East Side from the West Side subway lines (So somebody from say, Washington Heights can take the to 125th and then take the directly to East Midtown, instead of having to make 2 transfers, or having to take a crosstown bus in Midtown like they do now). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #433 Posted December 9, 2012 I think you'd be better off having it as an extension of the itself. You allow people direct subway access to the East Side from the West Side subway lines (So somebody from say, Washington Heights can take the to 125th and then take the directly to East Midtown, instead of having to make 2 transfers, or having to take a crosstown bus in Midtown like they do now). Doesn't really matter either way since this is all hypothetical... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #434 Posted December 9, 2012 Doesn't really matter either way since this is all hypothetical... Like about 80% of the stuff we discuss..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #435 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Like about 80% of the stuff we discuss..... My point was that I didn't come out with a specific "extension" so there isn't any real "better" extension. In other words it's not like I sat down and said oh this is better than this. I could care less either way. Just food for thought as far as I'm concerned, but if it makes you feel better, then sure your idea could work better. Edited December 9, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 9, 2012 Share #436 Posted December 9, 2012 lol... I don't either, but there is no question that it is a pretty congested corridor. Maybe if they extended the further north down the road you could justify having a shuttle. of course (about 181st).... Your 2nd point, I'm not quite getting what you were saying with that.... are you saying hypothetically the T could run up to the bronx, and that could be a possible endpoint on the bronx end of an ideal 181st shuttle? The simplest thing to do for 125th Street would to be extend the SAS to Riverside Drive.... I think you'd be better off having it as an extension of the itself. You allow people direct subway access to the East Side from the West Side subway lines (So somebody from say, Washington Heights can take the to 125th and then take the directly to East Midtown, instead of having to make 2 transfers, or having to take a crosstown bus in Midtown like they do now). I would put that under the classification of a 125th st shuttle..... Your point is not invalid though.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #437 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) of course (about 181st).... Your 2nd point, I'm not quite getting what you were saying with that.... are you saying hypothetically the T could run up to the bronx, and that could be a possible endpoint on the bronx end of an ideal 181st shuttle? Not at all... I don't know where the 181st shuttle would end. I just threw the out there as a "connection", but you can call it whatever line you want and have it end whereever you think it would work best. The idea was "if" some line ran further north to give East Side access to folks in Washington Heights, Inwood and so on. In other words, I didn't give it much thought since as far as I'm concerned I don't see it happening anytime soon. Edited December 9, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 9, 2012 Share #438 Posted December 9, 2012 Let the go to GWB terminal then have the 125th street shuttle. Want a 181st street crosstown easy let it go to throngs neck via cross bronx elevated and link ALL bronx subway lines eliminate melrose and add service to tremont and turn it into an intermodal terminal then the line will be called the Tremont ave cross bronx line (U). Another insane idea would be to return to bedford park reroute over then create extension via fordham rd to serve as a fordham ave line crosstown in the bronx OR have the line be separate call it the (I) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #439 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Let the go to GWB terminal then have the 125th street shuttle. Want a 181st street crosstown easy let it go to throngs neck via cross bronx elevated and link ALL bronx subway lines eliminate melrose and add service to tremont and turn it into an intermodal terminal then the line will be called the Tremont ave cross bronx line (U). Another insane idea would be to return to bedford park reroute over then create extension via fordham rd to serve as a fordham ave line crosstown in the bronx OR have the line be separate call it the (I) Through Throgs Neck?? LOL... I'm sure folks in Throgs Neck would be "thrilled" to have subway service. Most of the decent areas of the Bronx have no subways. Just some food for thought. Then again if they ran them by the projects I don't think it would too big of a deal. The folks in the wealthy parts of Throgs Neck and Schuylerville particularly by the waterfront wouldn't care since they would still have to use the BxM9. Edited December 9, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 9, 2012 Share #440 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Through Throgs Neck?? LOL... I'm sure folks in Throgs Neck would be "thrilled" to have subway service. Most of the decent areas of the Bronx have no subways. Just some food for thought. Then again if they ran them by the projects I don't think it would too big of a deal. The folks in the wealthy parts of Throgs Neck particularly by the waterfront wouldn't care since they would still have to use the BxM9. Or end at pelham park. True BUT it will make it easier for folk to reach NJ as they can use this line to GWB then use CUSA or NJT Edited December 9, 2012 by qjtransitmaster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #441 Posted December 9, 2012 of course (about 181st).... Your 2nd point, I'm not quite getting what you were saying with that.... are you saying hypothetically the T could run up to the bronx, and that could be a possible endpoint on the bronx end of an ideal 181st shuttle? Well, I remember looking at that RPA report, and they recommended have the SAS go up 3rd Avenue, then turn west and go under Fordham Road to Inwood (though I guess an elevated could be done as well). But I guess if you wanted to serve 181st, you could have it go down Tremont instead of Fordham. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 9, 2012 Share #442 Posted December 9, 2012 The idea was "if" some line ran further north to give East Side access to folks in Washington Heights, Inwood and so on. This clears up what I was initially unsure of.... thx. Let the go to GWB terminal then have the 125th street shuttle. Want a 181st street crosstown easy let it go to throngs neck via cross bronx elevated and link ALL bronx subway lines eliminate melrose and add service to tremont and turn it into an intermodal terminal then the line will be called the Tremont ave cross bronx line (U). Another insane idea would be to return to bedford park reroute over then create extension via fordham rd to serve as a fordham ave line crosstown in the bronx OR have the line be separate call it the (I) ....is exactly why I'm not taking this entire post of yours seriously. Do you really come up with these ideas for attention or something.... Hard to have any real discussion when you come on here posting things like this..... Well, I remember looking at that RPA report, and they recommended have the SAS go up 3rd Avenue, then turn west and go under Fordham Road to Inwood (though I guess an elevated could be done as well). But I guess if you wanted to serve 181st, you could have it go down Tremont instead of Fordham. Well that's certainly a new one (of what I can remember off the top of my head anyway); any mention you tend to hear of regarding sending the 2nd av line to the bronx, is to gun hill/WPR.... As far as 181st, I wasn't thinking of sending the 2nd av line way up there (nor was I thinking about making a full-fledged cross bronx line like QJT brought up)... I was thinking more along the lines of bringing bronx patrons to washington heights - something like what the 42nd street shuttle accomplishes for bringing west side riders to the east side (& vice versa)..... That's why I said to Via earlier that I wadn't sure where you'd end such a crosstown on the bronx end..... ^^ Of course, none of it would result in a cutting back of any of the Bx-GWB area bus routes..... (whatever happened to the Bronx idea thread anyway.... Lol) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 9, 2012 Share #443 Posted December 9, 2012 The cross bronx (U) and was the practical one the fordham one is really meant to be alone as a shuttle the part was the insane part. They are either or read before shooting it down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennyj17 Posted December 9, 2012 Share #444 Posted December 9, 2012 The problem is with the M7 - they're not gonna boost M20 service & extend M10's back southward because M7's bunch..... 1) Where would you end M10's or M104's around Penn? That's the problem.... Can't put it back over there along W. 31st st. where the M10 used to end.... 2) ...and how exactly would you streamline the M7 ? I didn't know 31st Street was blocked off, couldn't they use 33rd street? ....still doesn't diminish the fact that the M20 needs more reliable help along 7 AV...Its funny the Old M10 was a longer route than the M7, yet the old M10 was much more reliable and more of an assist to the M20 than the M7 currently is, why because the M10 was much more streamlined and straight doesn't have all the twist and turns that the M7 has uptown. Which leads me to ask what is the purpose of the M7 really...if you look at the map its clearly just a supplemental route to other routes...There isn't one part of the M7 route where its the lone route that would create a dependency for it... If it were me I would switch the M7 and the M3 north of the park. Have the M7 cover Manhattan/St Nick Aves to 168th (current M2 Term), Send the M3 up Lenox directly from CPN to current M1/M7/M102 term. and Extend the M2 from 168 to 191st (the current M3 term) This would make the M7 much more reliable and straight not causing it to be totally useless to anyone below 72nd Street. Plus I think this works better for the M3 and M2 as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 9, 2012 Share #445 Posted December 9, 2012 The cross bronx (U) and was the practical one the fordham one is really meant to be alone as a shuttle the part was the insane part. They are either or read before shooting it down. Except no one was talking about a cross bronx line.... So why waste my time.... I didn't know 31st Street was blocked off, couldn't they use 33rd street? ....still doesn't diminish the fact that the M20 needs more reliable help along 7 AV...Its funny the Old M10 was a longer route than the M7, yet the old M10 was much more reliable and more of an assist to the M20 than the M7 currently is, why because the M10 was much more streamlined and straight doesn't have all the twist and turns that the M7 has uptown. Which leads me to ask what is the purpose of the M7 really...if you look at the map its clearly just a supplemental route to other routes...There isn't one part of the M7 route where its the lone route that would create a dependency for it... Construction is being done on both sides of MSG (31st & 33rd), so, no..... In any event, it's not about any diminishment of the fact you're bringing up about 7th av bus service (which wasn't being disputed anyway).... Face it, the M7 is the "help" along 7th av.... MTA needs to figure out exactly what is causing the M7 notoriously bunch the way it does, and try to fix it.... Thus making it a more reliable option than what it currently is - Yes, before reverting the M10. Furthermore, the notion that the M7 is this supposedly purposeless route because it has no unique portions to it, is baffling.... For starters, all you gotta do is look at what the M7 does up in the part of Harlem it serves, compared to the [5th/madison routes & and the M102]..... Speaking of which, you may as well ask what is the purpose of the M102 really, since you know, there isn't one part of the M102 route where it's the lone route...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted December 9, 2012 Share #446 Posted December 9, 2012 Let the go to GWB terminal then have the 125th street shuttle. Want a 181st street crosstown easy let it go to throngs neck via cross bronx elevated and link ALL bronx subway lines eliminate melrose and add service to tremont and turn it into an intermodal terminal then the line will be called the Tremont ave cross bronx line (U). Another insane idea would be to return to bedford park reroute over then create extension via fordham rd to serve as a fordham ave line crosstown in the bronx OR have the line be separate call it the (I) QJ is back! Back to his Einstein pie in the sky out of this world FOAMER dreams proposals. Only QJ lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted December 9, 2012 Share #447 Posted December 9, 2012 Seriously only time i say it say we talking train when last time i looked it has not open up yet. Please keep it to realstic bus proposals for Manhattan. If not this topic is a wrap. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 9, 2012 Share #448 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) QJ is back! Back to his Einstein pie in the sky out of this world FOAMER dreams proposals. Only QJ lol. err only a part of it was so stop I already admitted the bronx ones were FOAM. Edited December 10, 2012 by qjtransitmaster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted December 9, 2012 Share #449 Posted December 9, 2012 Maybe the stress of the holidays but this thread is now closed at least until we can chat in a mature manner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted December 9, 2012 Share #450 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Maybe the stress of the holidays but this thread is now closed at least until we can chat in a mature manner. Just clean the thread(already did it), issue warnings and leave it open... Any more bullshit, and things will be much more worse than a mere warning... Edited December 9, 2012 by Cait Sith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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