Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Threxx]

On the M104 - why not extend it west to Javits using one of the side streets between 42 and 34 Street? It would bring the M104 in service that much closer to the MJQ Depot on its western end.

 

 

 

Those side streets are the entrances tho the Lincoln Tunnel. BAD IDEA....

[qjtransitmaster]

Because it's a highway. I mean, it's not really a great place to wait for a bus because it feels more open and exposed. I mean, you have the M11 & M20 further over, and that's in the middle of a denser area, so they probably figured there's no point in running a bus in that area.

 

You have to experience it for yourself you will be shocked how many ppl take cabs on it. But then again M37 may cut into their revenue stream lol. M20 again is shunned. West side hwy has many piers that would generate ridership. Most buses inmanhattan that do very well do not fully duplicate the subway except for M18& some former routes. Besides most ppl I spoke with at those piers also wondered why there is no bus. If you can hail a cab you can wait for a bus. Those DH runs that turn to X1 using west side hwy should be converted into X31 reverse trips. Bxm 18 may reach downtown faster if routed over bxm2's route till 72nd then goes down west side hwy.

[Threxx]

For once I agree with QJT. His "M37" is probably going to essentially be the new west side route. Hopefully it serves Greenwich/Washington Streets, which could use the service.

[Gorgor]

You have to experience it for yourself you will be shocked how many ppl take cabs on it. But then again M37 may cut into their revenue stream lol. M20 again is shunned. West side hwy has many piers that would generate ridership. Most buses inmanhattan that do very well do not fully duplicate the subway except for M18& some former routes. Besides most ppl I spoke with at those piers also wondered why there is no bus. If you can hail a cab you can wait for a bus. Those DH runs that turn to X1 using west side hwy should be converted into X31 reverse trips. Bxm 18 may reach downtown faster if routed over bxm2's route till 72nd then goes down west side hwy.

 

 

Absolutely false. People take cabs because they want to go somewhere fast, without having to deal with the crappy public transportation network we have. And people who are taking cabs on the West Side Highway do it because they're going 40-50mph with only a few red lights, whereas a bus would be doing 25-35mph and stopping every few blocks.

 

If I'm on 90th and York and want to get to 72nd and York, I hop in a cab; I don't wait for the slow and unreliable M31.

 

And regarding the BxM18, it would be much faster if it went via FDR Drive and 1st/2nd Avenues, but it also serves Midtown via 5th/Madison Avs, and you don't want to upset you-know-who.

 

Also, where would a bus stop on the West Side Highway going downtown? You certainly can't block a lane of traffic, and there's no room to build a shoulder because the bike path is right there and the park is right next to there. There's also bus routes every 10 or so blocks that connect to the subway: M8, M14, M23, M34, M42, M50.

 

Also, you said something about a long and detailed plan for an M37? I don't even know what the basic idea of your M37 is (unless I somehow skipped over it), but could you post or message me it? If it really is a thorough and detailed plan then I'd love to read it.

[Threxx]

My plan for the West Side route completely avoids southbound by using 11th Avenue. A shoulder would be built on the Northbound side of 12th Avenue for buses to stop, and buses would use Greenwich/Washington Avenues south of 14th Street, until Spring Street.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

Absolutely false. People take cabs because they want to go somewhere fast, without having to deal with the crappy public transportation network we have. And people who are taking cabs on the West Side Highway do it because they're going 40-50mph with only a few red lights, whereas a bus would be doing 25-35mph and stopping every few blocks.

 

If I'm on 90th and York and want to get to 72nd and York, I hop in a cab; I don't wait for the slow and unreliable M31.

 

And regarding the BxM18, it would be much faster if it went via FDR Drive and 1st/2nd Avenues, but it also serves Midtown via 5th/Madison Avs, and you don't want to upset you-know-who.

 

Also, where would a bus stop on the West Side Highway going downtown? You certainly can't block a lane of traffic, and there's no room to build a shoulder because the bike path is right there and the park is right next to there. There's also bus routes every 10 or so blocks that connect to the subway: M8, M14, M23, M34, M42, M50.

 

Also, you said something about a long and detailed plan for an M37? I don't even know what the basic idea of your M37 is (unless I somehow skipped over it), but could you post or message me it? If it really is a thorough and detailed plan then I'd love to read it.

 

The west side hwy is not slow enough to warrent a HOV bus lane. The M37 will be a LTD like manhattan's version of B103. Bxm18 via west side is a compromise to speed it up without forfeiting the midtown stops so it won't anger via 8 at all plus the stops can be on the piers. I admit I never made anything detailed reguarding MTA lines cause it indirectly has to do with NJT and NICE. I left out info that backs many of em so ppl like brett and joel up front got severly mislead.

[Gorgor]

The west side hwy is not slow enough to warrent a HOV bus lane. The M37 will be a LTD like manhattan's version of B103. Bxm18 via west side is a compromise to speed it up without forfeiting the midtown stops so it won't anger via 8 at all plus the stops can be on the piers. I admit I never made anything detailed reguarding MTA lines cause it indirectly has to do with NJT and NICE. I left out info that backs many of em so ppl like brett and joel up front got severly mislead.

 

 

I have no idea what you just said. Please take the time to write out your posts in English.

 

Again, I say what is this M37 plan you have? Where does it run to? What streets will it use?

[checkmatechamp13]

The west side hwy is not slow enough to warrent a HOV bus lane. The M37 will be a LTD like manhattan's version of B103. Bxm18 via west side is a compromise to speed it up without forfeiting the midtown stops so it won't anger via 8 at all plus the stops can be on the piers. I admit I never made anything detailed reguarding MTA lines cause it indirectly has to do with NJT and NICE. I left out info that backs many of em so ppl like brett and joel up front got severly mislead.

 

 

LOL. You don't think he'd complain if he had to walk all the way from 5th Avenue to the West Side Highway?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I have a better idea: How about you shut your mouth and let us discuss it. I threw it out there to see if it was a good idea. Turns out it wouldn't be much better than the current situation, and I even mentioned it in the post right above yours. I don't need you telling me when to start and end my discussions.

 

You know, I'm stumped that qj even liked this post

[Threxx]

Of course VG8 and all of Riverdale would complain if you butchered their service. As much as I hate bringing the damn neighborhood up, it's true. As for his post in proper English, I translated what I could:

 

 

The West Side Highway is not slow enough to warrant a HOV bus lane. The M37 will be a LTD, like Manhattan's version of theB103. BxM18 via the West Side is a compromise, to speed it up without forfeiting the Midtown stops, so it won't anger VG8 at all. Plus, the stops can be on the piers. I admit, I never made anything detailed reguarding MTA lines cause it/they? indirectly has/have? to do with NJT and NICE. I left out the info that backs it up, so people like Brett and Joel Up Front are severly mislead.

 

 

I swear, that last sentence was a real pain to work out some kind of meaning. Seriously, this isn't chat roulette, it's a public forum...

Edited August 27, 2012 by Threxx

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ugh... I said I wasn't posting anymore, but this BxM18 nonsense is really annoying me. First off, for the last time, we're happy with the route just the way it is, delays and all. Quite frankly the bus hasn't been delayed in MONTHS going back to the spring and I have used the BxM18 in the morning not only to get to my office in Midtown, but also to make stops Downtown along Broadway by the WTC to meet with clients and so on and it is EXTREMELY convenient for us both Downtown and Midtown with the current set up.

 

Out of the three routes (the BxM1, the BxM2 and the BxM18), the three of them are perfect as they are and I'll explain why. The BxM18 serves as a transfer route for QM riders and BxM riders as well, but there a lot of folks in Riverdale who work down in the Financial District (Stockbrockers, which I have seen on some of the rush hour Riverdale bound BxM18s), and you also have a lot of folks that live in Riverdale that work for the MTA at 347 Madison (i.e. big wigs like Charles Moerdler) so believe me, that route was damn there made to cater to us to the 9th degree. When I first moved there, the first thing that I said to myself was I wish I had a later BxM18 in the morning, as the BxM1 and BxM2 both leave me several blocks away from my office, so I can tell you now that we would raise hell if that route was touched either Downtown or Midtown. If anything Charles Moerdler would get involved, as he has with several Riverdale transit issues (i.e. additional stops for the MetroNorth Rail Link bus, and increased rush hour service for the Bx7 and Bx10).

 

In short, the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 all serve a core group of riders in Riverdale. You've got your 5th Ave/Madison Av crowd, such as myself, the Park Ave/Lex. Ave/Upper East Side crowd for the BxM1 and then the BxM2s big crowd is along 5th & 80 by the Met, Upper West Side (Lincoln Center/Columbus Circle) and 34th Street.

 

 

---

Oh and another thing about this X90 interlining.... Cait Sith is right... Those Yorkville folks would throw a fit if their express bus were interlined with say SI express buses which are usually poorly kept in terms of cleanliness. I know for a fact for example that X27 and X28 riders were quite pissed that they were getting hand-me-downs from Staten Island and they flooded Senator Golden's office with complaints and he wrote to the MTA to get Ulmer Park new express buses, which is one reason why they got all of those Prevosts.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

I swear, that last sentence was a real pain to work out some kind of meaning. Seriously, this isn't chat roulette, it's a public forum...

 

 

I got this.

 

The West Side Highway is not slow enough to warrant a HOV bus lane. The M37 will be a LTD, like Manhattan's version of the B103. BxM18 via the West Side is a compromise, to speed it up without forfeiting the Midtown stops, so it won't anger VG8 at all. Plus, the stops can be on the piers. I admit, I never made detailed plans regarding MTA lines because they indirectly have to do with NJT and NICE. I left out the info that backs it up, so people like Brett and Joel Up Front are severly mislead. (Meaning the reason his plans don't make sense is because he didn't talk about all the details).

 

[qjtransitmaster]

Ugh... I said I wasn't posting anymore, but this BxM18 nonsense is really annoying me. First off, for the last time, we're happy with the route just the way it is, delays and all. Quite frankly the bus hasn't been delayed in MONTHS going back to the spring and I have used the BxM18 in the morning not only to get to my office in Midtown, but also to make stops Downtown along Broadway by the WTC to meet with clients and so on and it is EXTREMELY convenient for us both Downtown and Midtown with the current set up.

 

Out of the three routes (the BxM1, the BxM2 and the BxM18), the three of them are perfect as they are and I'll explain why. The BxM18 serves as a transfer route for QM riders and BxM riders as well, but there a lot of folks in Riverdale who work down in the Financial District (Stockbrockers, which I have seen on some of the rush hour Riverdale bound BxM18s), and you also have a lot of folks that live in Riverdale that work for the MTA at 347 Madison (i.e. big wigs like Charles Moerdler) so believe me, that route was damn there made to cater to us to the 9th degree. When I first moved there, the first thing that I said to myself was I wish I had a later BxM18 in the morning, as the BxM1 and BxM2 both leave me several blocks away from my office, so I can tell you now that we would raise hell if that route was touched either Downtown or Midtown. If anything Charles Moerdler would get involved, as he has with several Riverdale transit issues (i.e. additional stops for the MetroNorth Rail Link bus, and increased rush hour service for the Bx7 and Bx10).

 

In short, the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 all serve a core group of riders in Riverdale. You've got your 5th Ave/Madison Av crowd, such as myself, the Park Ave/Lex. Ave/Upper East Side crowd for the BxM1 and then the BxM2s big crowd is along 5th & 80 by the Met, Upper West Side (Lincoln Center/Columbus Circle) and 34th Street.

 

 

---

Oh and another thing about this X90 interlining.... Cait Sith is right... Those Yorkville folks would throw a fit if their express bus were interlined with say SI express buses which are usually poorly kept in terms of cleanliness. I know for a fact for example that X27 and X28 riders were quite pissed that they were getting hand-me-downs from Staten Island and they flooded Senator Golden's office with complaints and he wrote to the MTA to get Ulmer Park new express buses, which is one reason why they got all of those Prevosts.

 

QM riders need their own downtown route Not the Bxm18. Plus if people wanted downtown they would transfer at midtown. Also downtown most stops remain. If other BXM lines need downtown extend em. But midtown transfer kills this anyway. FDR or wsh both win. Plus QM lines have QM11 and most lines have their own downtown variants QM7/8. The 20 can become the 2's downtown sibling while in manhattan downtown QM buses can get a new 34 th street transfer eliminating need for BXM18 to be used by queens riders. BXM 18 should be exclusive to the bronx. Qm21 & x60s can transfer on queens blvd for QM11 rendering BXM18 useless to queens ppl.

[B35 via Church]

Never liked the idea of having commuters xferring between express buses.... It isn't something I would advocate for.

[NX Express]

Never liked the idea of having commuters xferring between express buses.... It isn't something I would advocate for.

 

 

It's better than having all possible combinations of routes run, since that leads to emptier buses.

 

This is where the idea of the SI Express hub originated from, with feeders serving it from SI and then buses going to every part of Downtown and Midtown. That would lead to better equipment utilization overall.

[Threxx]

Never liked the idea of having commuters xferring between express buses.... It isn't something I would advocate for.

 

 

I agree, express buses are supposed to be one trip directly, or you transfer to a local bus or the subway...

 

It's better than having all possible combinations of routes run, since that leads to emptier buses.

 

This is where the idea of the SI Express hub originated from, with feeders serving it from SI and then buses going to every part of Downtown and Midtown. That would lead to better equipment utilization overall.

 

 

Not really, SI'ers are used to and wouldn't easily give up their direct service.

[B35 via Church]

It's better than having all possible combinations of routes run, since that leads to emptier buses.

 

This is where the idea of the SI Express hub originated from, with feeders serving it from SI and then buses going to every part of Downtown and Midtown. That would lead to better equipment utilization overall.

 

It isn't better at all.....

 

What it would lead to is angry riders having to disembark a bus for a 2nd bus going towards manhattan in the morning, and having to embark upon a 2nd bus going towards their residences w/i SI in the late afternoon or evening hours.....

 

The express bus network is meant to bring patrons residing in the outerboroughs to/from manhattan....

The local bus network (for the most part) is meant to transport patrons w/i its respective borough....

 

You'd be turning the express bus network into an intra-island local bus network basically..... buses would still have to make regular/current express bus stops w/i SI before it even reaches the physical hub/transfer point... For all that, you may as well have riders take local buses to the actual hub, instead of MCI's to the hub.....

 

Staten Island already has a huge hub & spoke system for its local buses (bus-to-ferry).....

No way do you turn the express bus network into a hub & spoke system (bus-to-bus)....

Edited August 27, 2012 by B35 via Church

[checkmatechamp13]

It's better than having all possible combinations of routes run, since that leads to emptier buses.

 

This is where the idea of the SI Express hub originated from, with feeders serving it from SI and then buses going to every part of Downtown and Midtown. That would lead to better equipment utilization overall.

 

 

Well, the thing is that SI express routes have enough ridership for the direct service. I mean, the only SI express route that really performed poorly was the X20 and that was eliminated. I mean, that system already exists to a certain degree anyway, since we have a few "NYCT Transfer Point" signs up at places on SI where different bus routes intersect. The majority of the riders just sit on the bus and get their one-seat ride, and the few that need to transfer do so. The only corridors that really see service to a bunch of different places are the busier corridors (the Hylan Blvd routes, X17, etc). On a less-busy route like the X15, you just have service to one area (Of course, the X15 still has respectable ridership).

[mark1447]

 

 

It isn't better at all.....

 

What it would lead to is angry riders having to disembark a bus for a 2nd bus going towards manhattan in the morning, and having to embark upon a 2nd bus going towards their residences w/i SI in the late afternoon or evening hours.....

 

The express bus network is meant to bring patrons residing in the outerboroughs to/from manhattan....

The local bus network (for the most part) is meant to transport patrons w/i its respective borough....

 

You'd be turning the express bus network into an intra-island local bus network basically..... buses would still have to make regular/current express bus stops w/i SI before it even reaches the physical hub/transfer point... For all that, you may as well have riders take local buses to the actual hub, instead of MCI's to the hub.....

 

Staten Island already has a huge hub & spoke system for its local buses (bus-to-ferry).....

No way do you turn the express bus network into a hub & spoke system (bus-to-bus)....

 

 

I would only allow Express bus transfers, for those in an outer borough who wants to go to another outer borough via Manhattan. While there is Subway to use, but another option would be nice, even if the transfer were to cost something.

 

I mean NJ Transit allows Express bus transfers, even tho its different since most folks are going to different counties in NJ.

[B35 via Church]

I would only allow Express bus transfers, for those in an outer borough who wants to go to another outer borough via Manhattan. While there is Subway to use, but another option would be nice......

 

Of course....

 

Just to be clear, I'm not implicating express bus xfers should actually be eradicated.....

(in other words.... after you board an express bus, you shouldn't have to pay another fare on whatever the 2nd mode is)

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

I would only allow Express bus transfers, for those in an outer borough who wants to go to another outer borough via Manhattan. While there is Subway to use, but another option would be nice, even if the transfer were to cost something.

 

I mean NJ Transit allows Express bus transfers, even tho its different since most folks are going to different counties in NJ.

 

Those transfers already exist I trnsfered between bxm and bm lines several times.

[checkmatechamp13]

Those transfers already exist I trnsfered between bxm and bm lines several times.

 

 

He knows that. I think he's saying that the only time you should have to transfer between express buses is if you're going between outer boroughs. If you're going to Manhattan, you shouldn't have to transfer between express buses.

[mark1447]

Those transfers already exist I trnsfered between bxm and bm lines several times.

 

But that only exist with the Unlimited Express Bus cards. Can you request transfer if you pay 5.50 Regular / 2.75 Dis/Sn?

 

I've been on the Express and thats denied. I think you should be allowed to get a transfer, even if it cost an extra buck.

[checkmatechamp13]

But that only exist with the Unlimited Express Bus cards. Can you request transfer if you pay 5.50 Regular / 2.75 Dis/Sn?

 

I've been on the Express and thats denied. I think you should be allowed to get a transfer, even if it cost an extra buck.

 

You need to use a MetroCard. If you use coins, I don't think you're allowed to get any type of transfer on the express bus.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

But that only exist with the Unlimited Express Bus cards. Can you request transfer if you pay 5.50 Regular / 2.75 Dis/Sn?

 

I've been on the Express and thats denied. I think you should be allowed to get a transfer, even if it cost an extra buck.

 

Read checkmate's last post. I get free transfers with no problem with pay per ride. Plus pay per ride is too expensive for express bus only worth it if doing it once a week otherwise go unlimited. But yes free metrocard transfers are granted on express buses.