Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not only that, but I'd be willing to think that some people favored the 104 over the 42 (within 42 street itself).

Ya think? The M104 comes much more frequently.  If you wait at Columbus Circle, you can see 7 or 8 M104's to say one or two M7's, M5's, M10's or M20's.  When it ran to the UN, I would use it all of the time.  The buses were never packed (weekday or weekend), came frequently and the ride was quick.  The M42's still bunch terribly and the M104 helped overcrowding from the East Side to the Port Authority.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Q43LTD]

But yet, the claimed "not too many people" took the M104 along 42...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But yet, the claimed "not too many people" took the M104 along 42...

Well they wanted to force people onto the M42, regardless of how they did it.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

...and some folks would have to pay an additional fare.  

 

Maybe that problem can be solved with a simple tweak of fare policy:  Get rid of all transfer privileges in favor of a 3-or-4-hour pass — i.e. an initial swipe or dip gets you unlimited use of the base system (local bus, subway, S.I. Railway) for 3 or 4 hours.

But yet, the claimed "not too many people" took the M104 along 42...

 

Was "not too many" an absolute reference, or was it relative to total M104 ridership?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Maybe that problem can be solved with a simple tweak of fare policy:  Get rid of all transfer privileges in favor of a 3-or-4-hour pass — i.e. an initial swipe or dip gets you unlimited use of the base system (local bus, subway, S.I. Railway) for 3 or 4 hours.

 

 

Well my hope is that we can do what happened with the B37, which is get enough people involved that they are forced to say yes.  The B37 had several politicians and the borough president behind it.  The M104 needs the same type of support.  I've started reaching out to some people again the way that I did for the B37.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Q43LTD]

Maybe that problem can be solved with a simple tweak of fare policy: Get rid of all transfer privileges in favor of a 3-or-4-hour pass — i.e. an initial swipe or dip gets you unlimited use of the base system (local bus, subway, S.I. Railway) for 3 or 4 hours.

 

 

Was "not too many" an absolute reference, or was it relative to total M104 ridership?

"Not too many" was an absolute reference for the 2010 cuts...

[bobtehpanda]

Maybe that problem can be solved with a simple tweak of fare policy:  Get rid of all transfer privileges in favor of a 3-or-4-hour pass — i.e. an initial swipe or dip gets you unlimited use of the base system (local bus, subway, S.I. Railway) for 3 or 4 hours.

 

 

Was "not too many" an absolute reference, or was it relative to total M104 ridership?

 

I think 2 hours is quite reasonable; there aren't very many trips that would take more than 2 hours between the first and last swipe, and I say this as someone who's had to go home from Staten Island to Eastern Queens via public transportation at 3 AM in the morning.

[Armandito]

Every express bus from the outer boroughs goes to Manhattan, but other than the X25 and X90 buses that were killed in 2010, why doesn't Manhattan have its own express bus nowadays? Here's my proposal for an express bus within Manhattan:

 

X70: Express weekday only service between Columbus Circle and Battery Park City

 

Southbound: via Central Park West, 63 St, 9 Av, 23 St, West St, Chambers St, and North End Av

 

Northbound: via North End Av, Chambers St, West St, 10 Av, 42 St, and 8 Av

 

Bus will run from 7AM to 8PM every 30 minutes. No stops on West St in both directions.

Edited August 14, 2014 by lara8710

[TrainFanInfinity]

Every express bus from the outer boroughs goes to Manhattan, but other than the X25 and X90 buses that were killed in 2010, why doesn't Manhattan have its own express bus nowadays?

 

It's called the subway. It's there you know.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Every express bus from the outer boroughs goes to Manhattan, but other than the X25 and X90 buses that were killed in 2010, why doesn't Manhattan have its own express bus nowadays? Here's my proposal for an express bus within Manhattan:

 

X70: Express weekday only service between Columbus Circle and Battery Park City

 

Southbound: via Central Park West, 63 St, 9 Av, 23 St, West St, Chambers St, and North End Av

 

Northbound: via North End Av, Chambers St, West St, 10 Av, 42 St, and 8 Av

 

Bus will run from 7AM to 8PM every 30 minutes. No stops on West St in both directions.

Express bus service is generally for areas without subway service and that are far out and outside of Manhattan.  The X90 existed because of the overcrowding on the Lex line and the long walk from those in Yorkville.  The X25 existed for a similar reason.  Most areas in Manhattan are covered with subway service.  Inwood has BxM1 service because it lacks East Side subway service and is far up in Upper Manhattan, otherwise it would not have any express bus service.  Even with that situation, the curtails BxM1 express bus service, as that service is really for us in Riverdale.  Only select trips serve Inwood.  They want people using the subway in Manhattan.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Armandito]

Express bus service is generally for areas without subway service and that are far out and outside of Manhattan. The X90 existed because of the overcrowding on the Lex line and the long walk from those in Yorkville. The X25 existed for a similar reason. Most areas in Manhattan are covered with subway service. Inwood has BxM1 service because it lacks East Side subway service and is far up in Upper Manhattan, otherwise it would not have any express bus service. Even with that situation, the curtails BxM1 express bus service. They want people using the subway in Manhattan.

The far west side of Manhattan is lacking in proximity to subway service, right?

Edited August 14, 2014 by lara8710

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The far west side of Manhattan is lacking in proximity to subway service, right?

It won't be for long though with the extension.  The far west side also isn't really developed in terms of residences to the point to where people would be yelling out for express bus service.  While it is a bit of a schlepp from say 11th Avenue to Columbus Circle, but I've gone to wine bars over there and just walk or take the bus to where I need to go.  You can also walk to the subway from there. It's three long blocks to 11th, but it's certainly doable.  The walk from Yorkville from say York to the subway is longer though and the bus ride isn't a joy either, hence why the X90 was there, as it provided a nice savings time wise from the bus to the subway set up, esp. with the Lex being so overcrowded and the crawl on the bus crosstown to reach the subway. Also folks in Yorkville, a lot of them work in the Financial District near or by the World Financial Center, so it was a route that made sense.

 

When creating new routes, you have to look at the demographics.  What style of living do these people have?  Where do they generally work, shop, hangout at etc., and then create a route that will draw those people.  That's why for example Riverdale has three express buses because a lot of Manhattanites move there from the Upper East Side, Upper West Side, and enough of them work Downtown in the Financial District to support a Downtown express bus too.  

Edited August 14, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Armandito]

It won't be for long though with the extension. The far west side also isn't really developed in terms of residences to the point to where people would be yelling out for express bus service. While it is a bit of a schlepp from say 11th Avenue, I've gone to wine bars over there and just walk or take the bus to where I need to go. You can also walk to the subway from there. It's three long blocks, but it's certainly doable. The walk from Yorkville from say York to the subway is longer though and the bus ride isn't a joy either, hence why the X90 was there, as it provided a nice savings time wise from the bus to the subway set up, esp. with the Lex being so overcrowded and the crawl on the bus crosstown to reach the subway. Also folks in Yorkville, a lot of them work in the Financial District near or by the World Financial Center, so it was a route that made sense.

 

When creating new routes, you have to look at the demographics. What style of living do these people have? Where do they generally work, shop, hangout at etc., and then create a route that will draw those people. That's why for example Riverdale has three express buses because a lot of Manhattanites move there from the Upper East Side, Upper West Side, and enough of them work Downtown in the Financial District to support a Downtown express bus too.

Nowadays, Manhattan's far west side is being developed, and there have been calls for more transit opportunities there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Nowadays, Manhattan's far west side is being developed, and there have been calls for more transit opportunities there.

Yes and that's why you have the new M12 bus.  That bus will take people from the Far West Side to the subway or to other important "hubs" in Manhattan.  I personally don't see people working in the Financial District and moving to the Far West Side.  You have to understand how this city works.  People that work in the Financial District either live very close by to their jobs (sometimes within walking distance or a very short subway ride away) either Downtown, or Midtown (centrally located), or even in Williamsburg where they can hop on the ferry and walk to their office from there because those jobs require long hours and you cannot work in finance and live too away, as you'll be burned out in no time with the commute plus the long hours.  

 

DUMBO and Brooklyn Heights are also other options that people are doing that are closeby right at the tip of Northern Brooklyn and both areas are equally expensive and in some cases more affluent than parts of prime Manhattan.  Outside of that, other areas like SoHo and TriBeCa come to mind, and then the Upper East Side for those who like living in neighborhoods known for having old money that have less rigorous hours if you will.  Someone living that far west and north in Manhattan and working in finance or the Financial District would probably be living along Riverside Drive and not near or in Hells Kitchen or near 11th Avenue, which is still a rather up and coming area and still grimy to a degree.  If they're along Riverside Drive, they would just drive down or take the train if they actually decide to use public transit, as the subway is not that far away that far north in Manhattan.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[TrainFanInfinity]

Nowadays, Manhattan's far west side is being developed, and there have been calls for more transit opportunities there.

 

The M12 is going to start in September, too.

EDIT: He beat it to me.

 

Also, most people take the crosstown bus to the subway.

Edited August 14, 2014 by TrainFanInfinity

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

To add on to this, an all day Manhattan express is really an excessive amount of service. For that, you might as well make all the outerborough expresses all day buses.

[Armandito]

How about rush hours in the peak direction only?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To add on to this, an all day Manhattan express is really an excessive amount of service. For that, you might as well make all the outerborough expresses all day buses.

One thing that does irritate me is Manhattanites trying to use the express bus in the city.  I don't know why they do it and I know damn well they know that it's drop-off only, yet some of them insist on trying to board when they have taxis, the subways and the local buses to chose from.  Really annoying and arrogant because it's like they have so many options yet they'll try to get on anyway and act as if they don't know.  

 

 

How about rush hours in the peak direction only?

Dude it's already been stated as to why it isn't necessary.  Read our posts and re-read them if you don't understand.  Not a need for the X70.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

One thing that does irritate me is Manhattanites trying to use the express bus in the city.  I don't know why they do it and I know damn well they know that it's drop-off only, yet some of them insist on trying to board when they have taxis, the subways and the local buses to chose from.  Really annoying and arrogant because it's like they have so many options yet they'll try to get on anyway and act as if they don't know.  

 

 

Dude it's already been stated as to why it isn't necessary.  Read our posts and re-read them if you don't understand.  Not a need for the X70.

 

Tell me about it, once I was on the X17 to Midtown, and the bus stops to drop people off. A lady asks if the bus goes to 14 (somewhere south of W.4 Street), and driver lets her on, and she didn't even pay (the driver told her she didn't need to). Then they started chit-chatting all the way there, talking about the midwest , and comparing it to the city.

Edited August 14, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Armandito]

One thing that does irritate me is Manhattanites trying to use the express bus in the city. I don't know why they do it and I know damn well they know that it's drop-off only, yet some of them insist on trying to board when they have taxis, the subways and the local buses to chose from. Really annoying and arrogant because it's like they have so many options yet they'll try to get on anyway and act as if they don't know.

 

 

 

Dude it's already been stated as to why it isn't necessary. Read our posts and re-read them if you don't understand. Not a need for the X70.

That reminds me, is the Lex Av Line already becoming more overcrowded after the X90 was discontinued? Edited August 14, 2014 by lara8710

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Tell me about it, once I was on the X17 to Midtown, and the bus stops to drop people off. A lady asks if the bus goes to 14 (somewhere south of W.4 Street), and driver lets her on, and she didn't even pay (the driver told her she didn't need to). Then they started chit-chatting all the way there, talking about the midwest , and comparing it to the city.

It's quite annoying, and sometimes I report the B/Os too because they enable it.  Let them take a damn cab.  I had a lady ask me when I was waiting to go on the express bus to Staten Island.  She's like I don't want to go to Bensonhurst or somewhere.  I just want to go further Downtown, so I told her point blank, then take a cab or take the local bus.  These are express buses that cost $6.00.  It wasn't as if she was some tourist either.  She knew very well what those buses were and just wanted to see if she could get on and be lazy and not use the local bus.  Then they get on and start asking a gazillion questions holding everyone up.  I like the B/Os that just close the door in their face and keep going because it's obvious that they're being wise @sses with all of the stupid questions when they have a timetable with the map right in front of them.

 

 

That reminds me, is the Lex Av Line already becoming more overcrowded after the X90 was discontinued?

It will always be overcrowded, with or without the X90 until the 2nd Avenue subway starts.  

Edited August 14, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Armandito]

Trenton, NJ is the worst place to take a bus. I can tell because I used to live there for almost a year. The drivers in general are rude and sometimes take advantage of people in a bad way by leaving them stranded at the bus stop all night long. None of the buses there run overnight, so if the driver doesn't open the door for you and it's the last bus, tough luck. The only way to get around the area at night is by car. Nothing like NYC in general, where many buses do run overnight.

Edited August 14, 2014 by lara8710

[qjtransitmaster]

Trenton, NJ is the worst place to take a bus. I can tell because I used to live there for almost a year. The drivers in general are rude and sometimes take advantage of people in a bad way by leaving them stranded at the bus stop all night long. None of the buses there run overnight, so if the driver doesn't open the door for you and it's the last bus, tough luck. The only way to get around the area at night is by car. Nothing like NYC in general, where many buses do run overnight.

dude you don't even see cars on the roads overnight in Mercer county of course the buses aren't going to be 24/7 I do know a bit about NJ but save for later I don't feel like it.

 

Tell me about it, once I was on the X17 to Midtown, and the bus stops to drop people off. A lady asks if the bus goes to 14 (somewhere south of W.4 Street), and driver lets her on, and she didn't even pay (the driver told her she didn't need to). Then they started chit-chatting all the way there, talking about the midwest , and comparing it to the city.

She got on cause it's either that or wait for the M5 Nuff said.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

dude you don't even see cars on the roads overnight in Mercer county of course the buses aren't going to be 24/7 I do know a bit about NJ but save for later I don't feel like it.

 

She got on cause it's either that or wait for the M5 Nuff said.

Still doesn't justify her getting on. It's an official drop off, and there are no X17 signs anywhere. I like how some of the QM's do it, once they're out of the QMT, most just place in the "NOT IN SERVICE" designation. That, or they change it after 6 Avenue and 36 Street.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Still doesn't justify her getting on. It's an official drop off, and there are no X17 signs anywhere. I like how some of the QM's do it, once they're out of the QMT, most just place in the "NOT IN SERVICE" designation. That, or they change it after 6 Avenue and 36 Street.

Yeah I've seen that too... I think they do it also to avoid any confusion with actual QM riders.  On the rare occasion some may forget to change their sign to the Queens destination when starting at 6th & 36th...