bobtehpanda Posted February 15, 2016 Share #926 Posted February 15, 2016 So I guess to bring this thread back from the dead; what would be the pros and cons of putting the M22 either entirely on East Broadway or entirely on Madison? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 20, 2016 Share #927 Posted February 20, 2016 Didn't realize this thread was that far inactive.... Anyway: So I guess to bring this thread back from the dead; what would be the pros and cons of putting the M22 either entirely on East Broadway or entirely on Madison? Why do you ask? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 21, 2016 Share #928 Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Didn't realize this thread was that far inactive.... Anyway: Why do you ask? It seems a bit silly to have one-way service split by two blocks, and at least from my experience East Broadway is more active, by far. Also, just to revive this dead old thread. I had to dig to find this... Edited February 21, 2016 by bobtehpanda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted February 21, 2016 Share #929 Posted February 21, 2016 It seems a bit silly to have one-way service split by two blocks, and at least from my experience East Broadway is more active, by far. Also, just to revive this dead old thread. I had to dig to find this... You gave me a bit of an idea. Not sure how this would affect ridership though. What if east Broadway became strictly westbound only while eastbound was for Madison st? It seems like the two streets parallel each other for pretty much their entire lengths. Not only would this simply traffic in the LES, the M15 no longer has to go through that annoying section that is absolutely hated on Madison St. The M9 would follow the eastbound M22 from City Hall to Rutgers St, then regular route to Kips Bay. M22 westbound trips would be removed from Madison St and run solely on East Broadway. Downtown M15s would follow the Pre-2010 City hall branch of the M15, then down St James Pl onto Water St towards south ferry. The SBS stop downtown on Madison St would be located to Catherine St and E. Bway in this process. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 21, 2016 Share #930 Posted February 21, 2016 It seems a bit silly to have one-way service split by two blocks, and at least from my experience East Broadway is more active, by far. East Broadway is more commercial, Madison av is more residential... East Broadway is by far more active b/w that park (don't know the name of it, but it's where the M9 turns off at) & Bowery, while Madison is by far more active w/i the LES..... I honestly believe that the M22 (BPC; Battery Park City) would go Madison > St. James > Worth (well, it's still Oliver at that point) [meaning, it would go clear along Madison], have it not be for that left turn off St. James, onto Oliver.... You'll find traffic cops directing traffic @ that intersection more often than not during the (week)day; constant tie-ups in that area..... This gives the M22 the best chance to garner the most riders it could, but it would also slow down the route that much more..... I also believe that if you have M22's run clear along E. Broadway, it would lose riders in LES (although it would be quicker).... Just for shits & giggles, I drew a map of how the M22 would look if service ran clear along: * East Broadway (LES bound) (BPC bound buses would still have to turn off for Worth @ Chatham Sq, to eventually get to Chambers) * Madison av (BPC bound) (for the LES bound buses, you could still maintain the real M22 routing.... or you could have buses go Park Row > Oliver > St James to get to Madison) The reason the (real) M22 is routed the way it is, b/c of the restrictions (really, the street layout) around City Hall/Park Row.... Personally, I hate the LES bound routing; particularly Frankfort st..... during the PM peak hrs, there's always a crap ton of express buses that also utilize that street slowing things down..... Not to mention w/e the heck it is they're doing construction on in that area...... To sum it up (while it may seem silly), it's just easier for BPC bound buses to turn off Pike to get to E. Broadway to get to Worth.... Also, LES buses can't turn left onto Centre @ Chambers, so that also exacerbates things.... So yeah, it's not really about bidirectional M22 service via East Broadway vs. Madison.... -fin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 23, 2016 Share #931 Posted February 23, 2016 I remember when the M22 was on Madison St exclusively. And used Chambers St Westbound and Vesey St eastbound 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 23, 2016 Share #932 Posted February 23, 2016 East Broadway is more commercial, Madison av is more residential... East Broadway is by far more active b/w that park (don't know the name of it, but it's where the M9 turns off at) & Bowery, while Madison is by far more active w/i the LES..... I honestly believe that the M22 (BPC; Battery Park City) would go Madison > St. James > Worth (well, it's still Oliver at that point) [meaning, it would go clear along Madison], have it not be for that left turn off St. James, onto Oliver.... You'll find traffic cops directing traffic @ that intersection more often than not during the (week)day; constant tie-ups in that area..... This gives the M22 the best chance to garner the most riders it could, but it would also slow down the route that much more..... I also believe that if you have M22's run clear along E. Broadway, it would lose riders in LES (although it would be quicker).... Just for shits & giggles, I drew a map of how the M22 would look if service ran clear along: * East Broadway (LES bound) (BPC bound buses would still have to turn off for Worth @ Chatham Sq, to eventually get to Chambers) * Madison av (BPC bound) (for the LES bound buses, you could still maintain the real M22 routing.... or you could have buses go Park Row > Oliver > St James to get to Madison) The reason the (real) M22 is routed the way it is, b/c of the restrictions (really, the street layout) around City Hall/Park Row.... Personally, I hate the LES bound routing; particularly Frankfort st..... during the PM peak hrs, there's always a crap ton of express buses that also utilize that street slowing things down..... Not to mention w/e the heck it is they're doing construction on in that area...... To sum it up (while it may seem silly), it's just easier for BPC bound buses to turn off Pike to get to E. Broadway to get to Worth.... Also, LES buses can't turn left onto Centre @ Chambers, so that also exacerbates things.... So yeah, it's not really about bidirectional M22 service via East Broadway vs. Madison.... -fin. Personally, I'd prefer a routing down Oliver because the sharp turn from Madison to St James Pl is asking for trouble. But yeah, Chatham Sq is a traffic mess, so I see your point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 23, 2016 Share #933 Posted February 23, 2016 Personally, I'd prefer a routing down Oliver because the sharp turn from Madison to St James Pl is asking for trouble. But yeah, Chatham Sq is a traffic mess, so I see your point. Either or is asking for trouble TBH, but nonetheless, you get the overall point.... I remember when the M22 was on Madison St exclusively. And used Chambers St Westbound and Vesey St eastbound When did buses stop taking that routing? Back during the Hudson Pier (depot) days or something? ....and when did you move to Orlando! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 23, 2016 Share #934 Posted February 23, 2016 ....and when did you move to Orlando! That's the real elephant in the room... lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 23, 2016 Share #935 Posted February 23, 2016 When did buses stop taking that routing? Back during the Hudson Pier (depot) days or something? ....and when did you move to Orlando! 1. If I remember correctly, it was probably after 9/11. At that time I think it was split with the Pier and WS (now MJQ). IIRC I think it was the fleet not the routes themselves. 2. I moved to Orlando in December, but my heart is always NYC. That's the real elephant in the room... lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 23, 2016 Share #936 Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) 2. I moved to Orlando in December, but my heart is always NYC. The tax situation may be great down there, but the job situation stinks, so I'm sure you'll be back. Enjoy your mini vacation. lol Edited February 23, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 23, 2016 Share #937 Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) The tax situation may be great down there, but the job situation stinks, so I'm sure you'll be back. Enjoy your mini vacation. lol You can say that again...only thing that's good is there's no state or city taxes assessed. Anyway, I wonder would it be good if the M22 went back to its routing pre-9/11 Edited February 23, 2016 by Q43LTD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 23, 2016 Share #938 Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) You can say that again...only thing that's good is there's no state or city taxes assessed. Anyway, I wonder would it be good if the M22 went back to its routing pre-9/11 The M22 is a pitiful bus. That and the M9 is a disaster. I tried using both of those buses to get to meetings on the Lower East Side last year and just gave up and walked or took a cab. It seems like M22 just meanders all about, but with the endless construction down there, it's a wonder that anyone uses it. I may have used it once years ago on a Saturday morning. I had breakfast near West Broadway, and wanted to head to Bloomingdales, so I hopped on it briefly and then got off and made my way to the M15 SBS. Yes the tax situation is fantastic, but that and the weather won't keep you there for long. lol Edited February 23, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLX9304 Posted February 23, 2016 Share #939 Posted February 23, 2016 I have just gotten off the M21, and let me tell you, it was very dissapointing, For starters I had to wait twenty minutes for one. In my eyes thats just ridicuolus. One, I couldv'e walked and it would take the same amount of time. Two, this is the Houston St Crosstown. People completely unfamiliar with NYC or MTA, are going to take this bus. If they see it takes that long, they will get steered away from public transit. In addition, Weekday only service? I can tell you one thing for sure. There are bars in this area. People are more likely to drink (And get drunk and take MTA) on a Saturday, than a Wensday, which brings me to my next point. Service ends at 10 PM. As I said before, based on the area, this route can get alot of riders past 10 PM. Until service is improved the M21 will continue to get 3-4 riders a bus, and will be a waste of the MTA's money. So, overall what i'm trying to say is, they need to improve the route, or cut it entirely. The M21 was little used before it went true Houston Street X-town. the true route was first talked about in 1991 but protesters went against that because of the double fare structure was costing riders too much going up to Bellevue Hospital, in which this route is heavily depended on. The M21 currently operates 7 days a week 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 23, 2016 Share #940 Posted February 23, 2016 I remember when the M22 was on Madison St exclusively. And used Chambers St Westbound and Vesey St eastbound Chambers should have never been a two-way just like Bay Ridge Av south of 3rd should have never been a two way. One double parked car and traffic stops at a stand still. Took the westbound M22 once... never again! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 23, 2016 Share #941 Posted February 23, 2016 Chambers was a one way westbound? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 23, 2016 Share #942 Posted February 23, 2016 Chambers was a one way westbound? IDK but (and that section of Bay Ridge Av if we are keeping score) aren't much wider than your average one way street and much thinner than a normal two-way street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 23, 2016 Share #943 Posted February 23, 2016 IDK but (and that section of Bay Ridge Av if we are keeping score) aren't much wider than your average one way street and much thinner than a normal two-way street. When decisions are made to turn two-way streets into one-way streets, that means that changes have to be made elsewhere (usually). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 24, 2016 Share #944 Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) The M21 was little used before it went true Houston Street X-town. the true route was first talked about in 1991 but protesters went against that because of the double fare structure was costing riders too much going up to Bellevue Hospital, in which this route is heavily depended on. The M21 currently operates 7 days a week At the time of his post, the M21 didn't run weekends. When decisions are made to turn two-way streets into one-way streets, that means that changes have to be made elsewhere (usually). Oftentimes, the streets being converted to one-way streets are little residential streets, so it usually doesn't make a big difference (they just have to make sure to alternate the streets in opposite directions) In this particular case, 68th & 71st are both one-way westbound, so it shouldn't be a problem with regards to the regular traffic (since it's mostly people traveling to other parts of Bay Ridge) The B9 & B64 could be routed to travel Bay Ridge-3rd-71st to terminate, but the only question is what to do with X27/37? Having all four routes traveling down 71st (especially as frequently as the X27/37 are during rush hour) would improve traffic flow, but it might not sit well with the local residents. Edited February 24, 2016 by checkmatechamp13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 24, 2016 Share #945 Posted February 24, 2016 1. If I remember correctly, it was probably after 9/11. At that time I think it was split with the Pier and WS (now MJQ). IIRC I think it was the fleet not the routes themselves. 2. I moved to Orlando in December, but my heart is always NYC. Definitely after 9/11. They also started changing the M9 & 20 around in that area too at that time 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 24, 2016 Share #946 Posted February 24, 2016 At the time of his post, the M21 didn't run weekends. Oftentimes, the streets being converted to one-way streets are little residential streets, so it usually doesn't make a big difference (they just have to make sure to alternate the streets in opposite directions) In this particular case, 68th & 71st are both one-way westbound, so it shouldn't be a problem with regards to the regular traffic (since it's mostly people traveling to other parts of Bay Ridge) The B9 & B64 could be routed to travel Bay Ridge-3rd-71st to terminate, but the only question is what to do with X27/37? Having all four routes traveling down 71st (especially as frequently as the X27/37 are during rush hour) would improve traffic flow, but it might not sit well with the local residents. You could put the 27/37 on 68 Street or keep them on Ridge after getting off the Gowanus then via 71 Street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 24, 2016 Share #947 Posted February 24, 2016 You could put the 27/37 on 68 Street or keep them on Ridge after getting off the Gowanus then via 71 Street. As an X27 rider, the current routing works best. Most of the usage is along Shore Rd, and then after that Bay Ridge Avenue, sees usage and that other stop by Senator. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 24, 2016 Share #948 Posted February 24, 2016 As an X27 rider, the current routing works best. Most of the usage is along Shore Rd, and then after that Bay Ridge Avenue, sees usage and that other stop by Senator. except that the current route would have to change somehow if Bay Ridge Avenue became one way east bound. How would you do it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 24, 2016 Share #949 Posted February 24, 2016 except that the current route would have to change somehow if Bay Ridge Avenue became one way east bound. How would you do it? First off, I wouldn't make Bay Ridge Avenue a one-way. Yes, the avenue is narrow, but I've seen worst, and quite frankly, it's a major street in Bay Ridge. One would be crazy to do such a thing given the amount of businesses in the area. I don't think the residents would support it either. All you would do it simply move the traffic and double parking on to a side street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 24, 2016 Share #950 Posted February 24, 2016 And reroute the B64 in the process if Bay Ridge Ave became one way. Shouldn't this be in the Brooklyn proposals thread? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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