B35 via Church Posted August 15, 2014 Share #826 Posted August 15, 2014 Every express bus from the outer boroughs goes to Manhattan, but other than the X25 and X90 buses that were killed in 2010, why doesn't Manhattan have its own express bus nowadays? Here's my proposal for an express bus within Manhattan: X70: Express weekday only service between Columbus Circle and Battery Park City Southbound: via Central Park West, 63 St, 9 Av, 23 St, West St, Chambers St, and North End Av Northbound: via North End Av, Chambers St, West St, 10 Av, 42 St, and 8 Av Bus will run from 7AM to 8PM every 30 minutes. No stops on West St in both directions. This is what local service is for.... Battery Park City patrons are not gonna pay for an express bus to get to TSQ/PABT & Columbus Circle... Granted, the M20 sucks, but Battery Park City patrons LOVE themselves some yellow cabs... Compared to how many ppl. live on that landfill in that neighborhood, few ppl. seem to have their own cars.... Most tend to take M9's to the subway for points north; the M20 is seldom used by patrons there.... Express bus service is generally for areas without subway service and that are far out and outside of Manhattan. The X90 existed because of the overcrowding on the Lex line and the long walk from those in Yorkville. The X25 existed for a similar reason. Most areas in Manhattan are covered with subway service. Inwood has BxM1 service because it lacks East Side subway service and is far up in Upper Manhattan, otherwise it would not have any express bus service. Even with that situation, the curtails BxM1 express bus service, as that service is really for us in Riverdale. Only select trips serve Inwood. They want people using the subway in Manhattan. The x25 existed to have suburbanites coming off the MNRR not being subjected to those icky, nasty, filthy city foke taking local buses & subways..... To add on to this, an all day Manhattan express is really an excessive amount of service. For that, you might as well make all the outerborough expresses all day buses. (s)he has a nact for creating all day service.... That reminds me, is the Lex Av Line already becoming more overcrowded after the X90 was discontinued? If you're asking did any former x90 riders start taking the Lex to get to where they have to go... I wouldn't doubt there was at least one person..... But the x90 most certainly didn't cause any significant dent in overcrowding on the Lex, that's for sure.... Trenton, NJ is the worst place to take a bus. I can tell because I used to live there for almost a year. The drivers in general are rude and sometimes take advantage of people in a bad way by leaving them stranded at the bus stop all night long. None of the buses there run overnight, so if the driver doesn't open the door for you and it's the last bus, tough luck. The only way to get around the area at night is by car. Nothing like NYC in general, where many buses do run overnight. Hasn't been my experience on any of the many #409's I've taken..... But as far as the local routes, I would agree... Consider the passengers..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 15, 2014 Share #827 Posted August 15, 2014 The x25 existed to have suburbanites coming off the MNRR not being subjected to those icky, nasty, filthy city foke taking local buses & subways..... That also... Can't blame them either... If I had to work Downtown now I would use the BxM18 for sure, or Metro-North and then take a cab. My subway days have been over a long time ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted August 15, 2014 Share #828 Posted August 15, 2014 Wasn't there a member that loved the X90 to death? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted August 15, 2014 Share #829 Posted August 15, 2014 Wasn't there a member that loved the X90 to death? Gorgor or some crap like that... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 15, 2014 Share #830 Posted August 15, 2014 Wasn't there a member that loved the X90 to death? Gorgor or some crap like that... Yeah Yorkville resident that worked in the WFC area... I'm sure he takes cabs down there now when he's in a hurry... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted August 16, 2014 Share #831 Posted August 16, 2014 Yeah Yorkville resident that worked in the WFC area... I'm sure he takes cabs down there now when he's in a hurry...Yeah that's him. I thought about reviving it as an "M90" but he wouldn't want a dirty old RTS or O5 with suburban seats... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 16, 2014 Share #832 Posted August 16, 2014 Yeah Yorkville resident that worked in the WFC area... I'm sure he takes cabs down there now when he's in a hurry... Nah, he has his BMW, IIRC Yeah that's him. I thought about reviving it as an "M90" but he wouldn't want a dirty old RTS or O5 with suburban seats... A couple ppl. had that idea.... I didn't agree with it either (not for that reason though).... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 16, 2014 Share #833 Posted August 16, 2014 Nah, he has his BMW, IIRC He does but he doesn't use it for work. He keeps it in the garage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted August 16, 2014 Share #834 Posted August 16, 2014 Funny thing is the x25 had ridership so abysmal it was down there with routes on rural systems actually it made those buses look crowded. It was literally the ultimate WTF Fail route. Enjoy the $6 giant limousine sorry I meant x25. Yeah that's him. I thought about reviving it as an "M90" but he wouldn't want a dirty old RTS or O5 with suburban seats... Just be like SI when they run out of buses and slap on a prevost or MCI anyway on this M90. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSubwayBuff Posted August 30, 2014 Share #835 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Hi guys with the start of the new M12 service I would kike to bring my own proposal up because it actually brings a purpose to the route, now what I would do is have the bus have 10 min headways during rush hour and the route would be: SB: 57 st 5 Av 57 st 7 av 57 st 8 av 57 st 10 av Regular stops until 24 st Express to chambers via West Side West Side Chambers West Side Barclay West Side Albany Battery Pl Greenwich Trinity Exchange Pl Terminate NB: Trinity Exchange Pl Church Liberty Church Barclay Church Warren Chambers W Broadway Chambers West Side Express to 24st Regular stops till 34 st 34st 11 Ave 10 Av 35 st 10 av 38 st 10 av 41 st 10 av 44st 10 av 46 st 10 av 48 st 10 av 51st 10 av 53 st 10 av 56 st 57 st 9th av 57 st 7 av 57 st 6 av 57 st Madison Hope you like it guys all criticism is appreciated Edited August 30, 2014 by NYSubwayBuff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted August 30, 2014 Share #836 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Hi guys with the start of the new M12 service I would kike to bring my own proposal up because it actually brings a purpose to the route, now what I would do is have the bus have 10 min headways during rush hour and the route would be: SB: 57 st 5 Av 57 st 7 av 57 st 8 av 57 st 10 av Regular stops until 24 st Express to chambers via West Side West Side Chambers West Side Barclay West Side Albany Battery Pl Greenwich Trinity Exchange Pl Terminate NB: Trinity Exchange Pl Church Liberty Church Barclay Church Warren Chambers W Broadway Chambers West Side Express to 24st Regular stops till 34 st 34st 11 Ave 10 Av 35 st 10 av 38 st 10 av 41 st 10 av 44st 10 av 46 st 10 av 48 st 10 av 51st 10 av 53 st 10 av 56 st 57 st 9th av 57 st 7 av 57 st 6 av 57 st Madison Hope you like it guys all criticism is appreciated I think the point of this route was just to fill the gap of the West Side, I don't think you should reroute it onto 10th avenue.Also, making the route have local stops and then that express section might ruin the route (bunching, etc.), and the headways might be too generous. (I speak as a person living in this growing neighborhood). Edited August 30, 2014 by TrainFanInfinity 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 30, 2014 Share #837 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I think the point of this route was just to fill the gap of the West Side, I don't think you should reroute it onto 10th avenue. Also, making the route have local stops and then that express section might ruin the route (bunching, etc.), and the headways might be too generous. (I speak as a person living in this growing neighborhood). Perfect timing; saved me a couple keystrokes..... You basically said what I was going to say, as far as pushing the envelope is concerned..... The thing doesn't need to run past (or even into, really) the financial district.... The dilemma is getting to west midtown for those folks (or w/e you want to call it), and the problems that plague the M11 doesn't help any...... Hi guys with the start of the new M12 service I would kike to bring my own proposal up because it actually brings a purpose to the route, now what I would do is have the bus have 10 min headways during rush hour and the route would be: ** bus stop lists ** Hope you like it guys all criticism is appreciated Aside from what's been stated above, terminating buses along Trinity place is a terrible idea..... South of the west village, it would carry less people than the M20, and that's saying quite a bit..... Your bus route would actually encourage usage Edited August 30, 2014 by B35 via Church 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted August 30, 2014 Share #838 Posted August 30, 2014 Hi guys with the start of the new M12 service I would kike to bring my own proposal up because it actually brings a purpose to the route, now what I would do is have the bus have 10 min headways during rush hour and the route would be: SB: 57 st 5 Av 57 st 7 av 57 st 8 av 57 st 10 av Regular stops until 24 st Express to chambers via West Side West Side Chambers West Side Barclay West Side Albany Battery Pl Greenwich Trinity Exchange Pl Terminate NB: Trinity Exchange Pl Church Liberty Church Barclay Church Warren Chambers W Broadway Chambers West Side Express to 24st Regular stops till 34 st 34st 11 Ave 10 Av 35 st 10 av 38 st 10 av 41 st 10 av 44st 10 av 46 st 10 av 48 st 10 av 51st 10 av 53 st 10 av 56 st 57 st 9th av 57 st 7 av 57 st 6 av 57 st Madison Hope you like it guys all criticism is appreciated This kind of brings back the x26 to a degree...I don't think the financial district is a good place to send it. It does need some tweaking, but this isn't the way 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSubwayBuff Posted August 31, 2014 Share #839 Posted August 31, 2014 I'll explain my reasoning Note: I do not live here so I do not know the needs of this exact neighborhood but I would think a direct connection to places where most people work is better than just "filling in the gap" when it comes to service 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 3, 2014 Share #840 Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Holding off on the whole, the M12 should run south of Abingdon Sq. bit for a second.... I have a slight routing suggestion for the M12. Instead of going: 10th av > W 15th > 11th av > W 24th > 12th.... I suggest that the NB M12 go: 10th av > W 23rd > 11th av > W 24th > 12th.... In laymen's, I'd have the route run along more of 10th, instead of more of 11th.... * The turns aren't the problem I have... It's the fact that I don't see the current routing (along 11th b/w 15th & 24th) really attracting/appealing to much of anyone.... If you have this bus run along more of 10th in Chelsea, you can perhaps take riders off the M11 - since the NB M12 won't/doesn't have to deal w/ the same BS that plagues the NB M11 (lincoln tunnel traffic).... In other words, it'll be a bit more of a quicker alternative to get to 57th, not to mention the M11 NB doesn't put you off closer to columbus circle than the M12 does.... This is a route I actually want to have it work out, b/c there's nothing you can do w/ the way the M11 gets stuck along the way in the W30's & W40's..... I think Chelsea patrons are gonna end up realizing this (about the M12 NB), and I would not be at all surprised before years end that the northbound 11th av portion b/w 15th & 23rd would vanish..... Your thoughts? p.s... forgot the dam Map link... Lol.... Edited September 3, 2014 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 3, 2014 Share #841 Posted September 3, 2014 Holding off on the whole, the M12 should run south of Abingdon Sq. bit for a second.... I have a slight routing suggestion for the M12. Instead of going: 10th av > W 15th > 11th av > W 24th > 12th.... I suggest that the NB M12 go: 10th av > W 23rd > 11th av > W 24th > 12th.... In laymen's, I'd have the route run along more of 10th, instead of more of 11th.... * The turns aren't the problem I have... It's the fact that I don't see the current routing (along 11th b/w 15th & 24th) really attracting/appealing to much of anyone.... If you have this bus run along more of 10th in Chelsea, you can perhaps take riders off the M11 - since the NB M12 won't/doesn't have to deal w/ the same BS that plagues the NB M11 (lincoln tunnel traffic).... In other words, it'll be a bit more of a quicker alternative to get to 57th, not to mention the M11 NB doesn't put you off closer to columbus circle than the M12 does.... This is a route I actually want to have it work out, b/c there's nothing you can do w/ the way the M11 gets stuck along the way in the W30's & W40's..... I think Chelsea patrons are gonna end up realizing this (about the M12 NB), and I would not be at all surprised before years end that the northbound 11th av portion b/w 15th & 23rd would vanish..... Your thoughts? p.s... forgot the dam Map link... Lol.... My only issue is isn't the whole point of the M12 to serve people along 12th and 11th Avenue? The route should be allowed to grow by itself and not be forced to run with M11 to steal riders, otherwise you could just increase M11 service and call it a day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSubwayBuff Posted September 3, 2014 Share #842 Posted September 3, 2014 I agree with this proposal, because it actually can actually serve passengers that live on 9-11th, with the 12 going up 12th avenue for most (if not all of the route), it will not get much passengers, people don't need a bus that goes up there, worst case scenario they could walk to 10th from 12th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 3, 2014 Share #843 Posted September 3, 2014 I agree with this proposal, because it actually can actually serve passengers that live on 9-11th, with the 12 going up 12th avenue for most (if not all of the route), it will not get much passengers, people don't need a bus that goes up there, worst case scenario they could walk to 10th from 12th. But that was the whole point of creating the M12... To serve people along 11th and 12th Avenue who needed bus service... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSubwayBuff Posted September 3, 2014 Share #844 Posted September 3, 2014 But nobody needs it there! That is the point of his proposal to make the bus easier to get to by the majority of the people in that neighborhood, ik what ta had in mind when they created the route but they screwed up abd as others have noted the buses were empty. If the ta still has the idea of serving that neighborhood they should move the 12 to 10ave and the few people who will be affected by this can walk to 10th ave 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armandito Posted September 3, 2014 Share #845 Posted September 3, 2014 There used to be a crosstown bus running along Broome and Grand Streets...I wonder why it was discontinued 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted September 3, 2014 Share #846 Posted September 3, 2014 There used to be a crosstown bus running along Broome and Grand Streets...I wonder why it was discontinued Because the ridership could've been swept away to other bus lines, lol.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 4, 2014 Share #847 Posted September 4, 2014 My only issue is isn't the whole point of the M12 to serve people along 12th and 11th Avenue? The route should be allowed to grow by itself and not be forced to run with M11 to steal riders, otherwise you could just increase M11 service and call it a day. The point is to serve the "far" west side (as it's called).... 10th av in Chelsea still fits that bill.... There's nothing saying that a new route has to have its own unique/separate riders, and that's it.... Furthermore, there's not gonna be any real growth of ridership along 12th av itself; that's why I would have the thing reach more actual residents of the area (Chelsea) w/ that slight diversion.... Now if I were sitting up here saying, have the NB M12 parallel the M11 on up to 57th, then turn off 57th to do the rest of the M12 route, then your point would make more sense..... I'm not suggesting anything close to that...... I agree with this proposal, because it actually can actually serve passengers that live on 9-11th, with the 12 going up 12th avenue for most (if not all of the route), it will not get much passengers, people don't need a bus that goes up there, worst case scenario they could walk to 10th from 12th. But nobody needs it there! That is the point of his proposal to make the bus easier to get to by the majority of the people in that neighborhood, idk what ta had in mind when they created the route but they screwed up abd as others have noted the buses were empty. If the ta still has the idea of serving that neighborhood they should move the 12 to 10ave and the few people who will be affected by this can walk to 10th ave Someone gets it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 4, 2014 Share #848 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) The point is to serve the "far" west side (as it's called).... 10th av in Chelsea still fits that bill.... There's nothing saying that a new route has to have its own unique/separate riders, and that's it.... Furthermore, there's not gonna be any real growth of ridership along 12th av itself; that's why I would have the thing reach more actual residents of the area (Chelsea) w/ that slight diversion.... Well short term I would agree with you, but long term I would disagree... Gentrification will only force people further west and north for "cheaper" prices.... I was at a alumni event tonight over on Park Avenue and I chuckled when I heard Riverdale being referred to as Upper Manhattan... My point is that residential buildings will increase over there are as time goes on, so ridership should grow, but gradually...A The point is to serve the "far" west side (as it's called).... 10th av in Chelsea still fits that bill.... There's nothing saying that a new route has to have its own unique/separate riders, and that's it.... Furthermore, there's not gonna be any real growth of ridership along 12th av itself; that's why I would have the thing reach more actual residents of the area (Chelsea) w/ that slight diversion.... Now if I were sitting up here saying, have the NB M12 parallel the M11 on up to 57th, then turn off 57th to do the rest of the M12 route, then your point would make more sense..... I'm not suggesting anything close to that...... Someone gets it. I get it... I just don't agree with the idea of stealing M11 riders to make the route successful... I think the M11 should keep its market, and the M12 should establish its own without stealing from another route, otherwise, the route shouldn't exist... The has to be patient with the route and let the route grow on its own without looking for "quick" fixes... I honestly don't see what good comes out of stealing riders from another route when the route in question is not exactly booming in ridership to begin with. I've used the M11, and it isn't a route that needs to shed passengers to another route, like the X1. Edited September 4, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted September 4, 2014 Share #849 Posted September 4, 2014 There used to be a crosstown bus running along Broome and Grand Streets...I wonder why it was discontinued That was the original M8 (part of the Avenue B and East Broadway Bus Company). The part east of Essex Street was absorbed by the M14A. The part west of Essex never had enough riders to justify keeping the route. At one time, there was also the M12 Delancey Street Crosstown, which ran a 45-minute headway with one bus all day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 4, 2014 Share #850 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Well short term I would agree with you, but long term I would disagree... Gentrification will only force people further west and north for "cheaper" prices.... I was at a alumni event tonight over on Park Avenue and I chuckled when I heard Riverdale being referred to as Upper Manhattan... My point is that residential buildings will increase over there are as time goes on, so ridership should grow, but gradually...A I get it... I just don't agree with the idea of stealing M11 riders to make the route successful... I think the M11 should keep its market, and the M12 should establish its own without stealing from another route, otherwise, the route shouldn't exist... The has to be patient with the route and let the route grow on its own without looking for "quick" fixes... I honestly don't see what good comes out of stealing riders from another route when the route in question is not exactly booming in ridership to begin with. I've used the M11, and it isn't a route that needs to shed passengers to another route, like the X1. You just said in the short term you would agree with what I said...., So you absolutely see what good that quote-unquote quick fix would do... Anyway, the M11 in its entirety won't suffer from whatever riders would end up shifting over to M12's (which is what you're implicating by saying "when the route in question is not exactly booming in ridership to begin with"), since the M11 covers far more territory than the M12.... And what (increase in) residential buildings are you talking about over there around 12th av, for the MTA to be patient & let the route grow on its own with? This isn't a situation like the B32 up there in Williamsburg (for example)...... Fact of the matter is, the riders are not gonna come from along 12th av..... They're gonna come from West Village, Chelsea, and b/w [11th/57th] & [the Columbus Circle area]..... There isn't a single thing wrong with trying to get more Chelsea residents to take this new route.... Edited September 4, 2014 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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