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Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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Here is another idea, the M28 crosstown, point to assist the M23 & M34 along 28 St, a busy shopping corridor in some places.

 

It's not THAT busy! Definitely not busy enough to warrant another crosstown on top of the M23 and M34/M34A.

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It's not THAT busy! Definitely not busy enough to warrant another crosstown on top of the M23 and M34/M34A.

 

Trust me, you haven't been there when i've been there, it's busy.

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Trust me, you haven't been there when i've been there, it's busy.

 

Where though? It's got the hospitals on the East Side and you've kinda got the food area with all the cabbies on Lex or so but west of 5th there's not that much, and there's literally nothing all the way west.

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Where though? It's got the hospitals on the East Side and you've kinda got the food area with all the cabbies on Lex or so but west of 5th there's not that much, and there's literally nothing all the way west.

 

There's nothing all the way west anywhere you go... <_<

 

West of 5th to about 8th, there are a lot of stores along 28th.

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There's nothing all the way west anywhere you go... <_<

 

West of 5th to about 8th, there are a lot of stores along 28th.

 

From the river to Lex, I'll grant you, there's a lot of pedestrian on 28th. From Lex to 8th though it's just a regular midtown Manhattan street with shops etc., and from 8th to 12th (Highway) there's nothing but residential areas and warehouses. There are plenty of places around the city that need bus service more than 28th, with two very high-frequency buses only 5 and 6 blocks away.

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From the river to Lex, I'll grant you, there's a lot of pedestrian on 28th. From Lex to 8th though it's just a regular midtown Manhattan street with shops etc., and from 8th to 12th (Highway) there's nothing but residential areas and warehouses. There are plenty of places around the city that need bus service more than 28th, with two very high-frequency buses only 5 and 6 blocks away.

 

Name another. Personally, I think the M28 could help out in the neighborhood. (P.S, The M23 & M34/A aren't that frequent. 8-10 min at AM rush, not frequent.)

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The M10 is highly used in Harlem, compared to Central Park West. If you stand around 125th Street & 8th around the Rush, Northbound Buses gets packed. If Limited won't do, then maybe as I mentioned above, merge with the M20.

 

For the M11, yes it does suck. Most of the issue with delays is due to traffic between 34th Street and 50th Street with those cars/trucks/buses trying to go to Lincoln Tunnel for NJ access. The Bus ends up getting late by 10 or even 20 min. Been thru it and its hell.

- The M10... yeah, the Harlem portion I truly think kept that route alive.... well that, and the political clout UWS-ers hold.....

The former of the above, Same with the M1 in Harlem - You see what they did w/ that route on the weekends...

 

- The M11, I'm not even talking about the delays... I'm talking about its service levels.....

The delays just exacerbates the problem of the already shitty service on the route.....

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Name another. Personally, I think the M28 could help out in the neighborhood. (P.S, The M23 & M34/A aren't that frequent. 8-10 min at AM rush, not frequent.)

 

I mean, just in Manhattan alone, you can't do much crosstown-wise from the park and above but downtown you've got West 4th Street at least as busy, Delancey/Broome are incredibly busy if not traffic-ridden, and then you've got tons of neighborhoods in Bk, Queens, and the Bronx completely lacking in bus service. I just don't think you need another crosstown bus in Midtown.

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I mean, just in Manhattan alone, you can't do much crosstown-wise from the park and above but downtown you've got West 4th Street at least as busy, Delancey/Broome are incredibly busy if not traffic-ridden, and then you've got tons of neighborhoods in Bk, Queens, and the Bronx completely lacking in bus service. I just don't think you need another crosstown bus in Midtown.

 

I know about the outer boros. Check this thread: (http://nyctransitforums.com/forums/index.php/topic/34400-brooklyn-bus-proposalsideas-thread-2012/page__st__90) for extensive info on my ideas to better Brooklyn routes.

 

Delancey/Broome, huh, that gave me an idea...

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As for this M28 idea.... I don't see who's commute that would help on any large-scale basis....

 

Pedestrian traffic doesn't automatically equal high ridership on a bus if it were to travel along said streets where ped. traffic exists..... That is a misconception.....

 

A good example of that is the M50.

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Ok I just want to throw this out there... M60 +SBS+? The M60 already skips stops on Broadway and Amsterdam Ave, and the bus is always late as hell.

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Name another. Personally, I think the M28 could help out in the neighborhood. (P.S, The M23 & M34/A aren't that frequent. 8-10 min at AM rush, not frequent.)

 

 

It really wouldn't honestly, it'd be a version of the M21. Also, residents don't want any sort of bus going through those streets, thats why you see no buses or tour buses for that matter take those streets.

 

I know about the outer boros. Check this thread: (http://nyctransitfor...12/page__st__90) for extensive info on my ideas to better Brooklyn routes.

 

Delancey/Broome, huh, that gave me an idea...

 

 

If you're gonna think of a route that goes through those areas, might wanna drop it.

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Here is another idea, the M28 crosstown, point to assist the M23 & M34 along 28 St, a busy shopping corridor in some places.

 

Problem: W 28 St between 7 Ave and 8 Ave is no longer a through street.

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At first glance, one would think so.

 

This route is multi purpose, and here's why:

 

1. Provides a direct connection from PABT to Lower Midtown & Downtown Manhattan.

2. Supplements Lex Avenue trains by providing a direct connection from GCT to the areas mentioned above.

3. Replaces former M1 service on Park Av S, Lafayette & Centre Sts.

4. Connection directly to City Hall in both directions.

 

Some buses will short-turn at City Hall to increase the reliability of the route in what I believe would be the busiest section of the route. I think I've routed it so this route can pay for itself. It could even be extended south to Penn Station, removing the section b/w 42 St & 50 St.

 

Except for that reloop via Chambers St., I like the idea.

 

Unfortunately, the MTA's service planners love to throw cold water on all ideas that come their way. They would ask, "How many riders do you think would have to use this new route in order for the route to pay for itself? Where's your proof"

 

I've been able to answer these questions in my proposal. In it, I take the practical approach. As that some of the routes and corridors were recently discontinued, the service planners already have the ridership and origin/destination data, except for Greenwich St. But this would be relatively easy for the service planners to deduce, as that this would be the only unknown variable.

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The M10 is not that infrequent. The M20 is a lot more infrequent then the 10. I say add more buses.

 

The M10 is highly used in Harlem, compared to Central Park West. If you stand around 125th Street & 8th around the Rush, Northbound Buses gets packed. If Limited won't do, then maybe as I mentioned above, merge with the M20...

 

For bus routes outside of Staten Island, to determine if there should be limited-stop service on a specific corridor, the overall frequency of its routes must be AT LEAST every five minutes. If there is one route, it's a no-brainer; every other bus would be limited-stop--every 10 minutes local, every 10 minutes limited-stop. But if the corridor has multiple routes, it's much more complicated.

 

Then it must be determined of it's feasible based on origin-destination data. E.g., the M31 should have limited-stop service in the AM rush in the peak direction, but the B36 and Bx11 should not have limited-stop service at all.

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Problem: W 28 St between 7 Ave and 8 Ave is no longer a through street.

 

 

What? When did this happen...

 

Except for that reloop via Chambers St., I like the idea.

 

Unfortunately, the MTA's service planners love to throw cold water on all ideas that come their way. They would ask, "How many riders do you think would have to use this new route in order for the route to pay for itself? Where's your proof"

 

I've been able to answer these questions in my proposal. In it, I take the practical approach. As that some of the routes and corridors were recently discontinued, the service planners already have the ridership and origin/destination data, except for Greenwich St. But this would be relatively easy for the service planners to deduce, as that this would be the only unknown variable.

 

 

For this route to pay for it self, I think it would need at least 2000 riders daily, considering it's purpose.

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That M18 idea....

 

I actually don't have a problem with the looping at park row... I could see ppl. using such a route b/w S. Ferry & Park Row....

 

It's the routing north of 14th st that's the problem.... Why you have buses going up to 50th if PABT is your focal point, I honestly don't know.... Is that all supposed to be for a turnaround??? But regardless, forget about putting a bus on park av over there by Grand Central... and two, aint nobody goin opt to take a bus from PABT, having to pan across 42nd st, to get to lower manhattan.... that is just not practical....

 

I'm not clamoring as hard as some are for the reverting of the M104, but I think that makes more sense than having a bus serving 42nd st, to have it turn on Park avenue.....

Edited by B35 via Church

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That M18 idea....

 

 

M16.

 

I actually don't have a problem with the looping at park row... I could see ppl. using such a route b/w S. Ferry & Park Row....

 

It's the routing north of 14th st that's the problem.... Why you have buses going up to 50th if PABT is your focal point, I honestly don't know.... Is that all supposed to be for a turnaround??? But regardless, forget about putting a bus on park av over there by Grand Central... and two, aint nobody goin opt to take a bus from PABT, having to pan across 42nd st, to get to lower manhattan.... that is just not practical....

 

I'm not clamoring as hard as some are for the reverting of the M104, but I think that makes more sense than having a bus serving 42nd st, to have it turn on Park avenue.....

 

 

The route can go right onto 5th, across 41st to get to Park Avenue. Replacing service on 42 St was never the point. Park Av S service is needed, and since the 5th Ave buses aren't coming back, the M16 is the best replacement. The turnaround can be shortened, I just thought that would be best considering the pedestrian plaza business around TImes Square.

 

I think, if it means avoiding the train, the route will get use from PABT. I actually believe the part of the rout that will be really busy is GCT-South Ferry.

Edited by ThrexxBus

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What? When did this happen...

 

I was at the public hearings for the June 2010 in April 2010 at the SUNY Fashion Institute of Technology, and it was already closed. So, W 28 St from 8th Ave to 7th Ave has been closed for at least two years.

For this route to pay for it self, I think it would need at least 2000 riders daily, considering it's purpose.

 

I also forgot that between 10AM and 3 PM weekdays, Park Avenue southbound from 42 St to 41 St is closed for pedestrian use. An don't forget that the entire Park Ave and Park Ave South south of 42 St (including the overpass) is closed during certain summer weekends. This would force your M18 to divert to Lexington Ave, discouraging ridership.

 

Based on these factors, I only see it have 1500-1750 daily riders, and much less on weekends.

 

Which is why my proposal is superior.

Edited by dkupf

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I was at the public hearings for the June 2010 in April 2010 at the SUNY Fashion Institute of Technology, and it was already closed. So, W 28 St from 8th Ave to 7th Ave has been closed for at least two years.

 

 

I also forgot that between 10AM and 3 PM weekdays, Park Avenue southbound from 42 St to 41 St is closed for pedestrian use. An don't forget that the entire Park Ave and Park Ave South south of 42 St (including the overpass) is closed during certain summer weekends. This would force your M18 to divert to Lexington Ave, discouraging ridership.

 

Based on these factors, I only see it have 1500-1750 daily riders, and much less on weekends.

 

Which is why my proposal is superior.

 

 

Rules and programs can be changed. In that case, the M16 will use Lex & Madison, which will not discourage ridership. The route will run a block away in both directions, not far to walk. I have to go, but I will elaborate on this later.

 

What is your proposal that will do all of the things the M16 will do better?

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Before ayone posts any ideas about delancy/Broome, it was done before, it's not needed, and delancy alone ends as Kenmare st at Centre/Lafayette.

 

Before 1984, what we now know as the M8 was then the M13. The M8 was a Crosstown route that used Grand and Broome Streets. it diedfor a reason

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Before ayone posts any ideas about delancy/Broome, it was done before, it's not needed, and delancy alone ends as Kenmare st at Centre/Lafayette.

 

Before 1984, what we now know as the M8 was then the M13. The M8 was a Crosstown route that used Grand and Broome Streets. it diedfor a reason

 

 

C'mon, that area is busy enough to need a route.

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C'mon, that area is busy enough to need a route.

 

 

It already has enough, it's not about how busy it is, its DEMAND....which it has none!

 

Take it from someone who's lived directly in that area for 17 years. The area has the M9, M14s, M15s, M103s followed by a huge number of subway routes surrounding the area. Not much to improve in the area considering that the M14s and M15s run pretty often, the M9s are often on-time. The M103s....even though they deal with the terrible Bowery traffic, they still run pretty well.

 

Like I said before, folks gotta stop looking at maps and check out the areas themselves.

Edited by Cait Sith
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origin of traffic is also very important in finding hidden service gaps

 

You're not totally wrong, but this is a half-truth....

If I told you I'm driving my car originating from East Flatbush, what good would that do a planner.... lol...

 

The origin means nothing without knowing the destination of vehicular traffic..... and even then you have to somehow try to get folks out of their personal vehicles to make mass transit conducive enough.....

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