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NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013


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An idea: Separate the #126 Hamilton Park extension from the main route. The #126 is far too busy to be serving that extension on 30 minute headways (in other words, if I lived in that area, I'd find it far too risky to take the #126 bus because I wouldn't know if I would be able to fit on one of those Hamilton Park trips).

 

I think a full-time route should run up the west side of Hoboken (further west than the Clinton/Willow trips, maybe up Monroe/Madison) and focus on getting down to Hamilton Park. I would extend this route down 8th/9th and Brunswick/Monmouth to Montgomery Street, and then take Montgomery to Baldwin, and terminate at Five Corners (where the #1/4/6/81 meet). This would give a direct ride to Manhattan from parts of Jersey City that are far from the PATH and HBLR (and #119). 

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Another idea to provide more coverage in Woodbridge:

 

Extend the #115 to Perth Amboy via the following routing:

 

Route 35-Green Street, serve the Woodbridge Mall, then continue down Woodbridge Center Drive to Mutton Hollow Road to Route 9 to West Pond Road/Pfeiffer Blvd to State Street to Market Street to Sadowski Parkway (and loop back up Catalpa Avenue)

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Another idea to provide more coverage in Woodbridge:

 

Extend the #115 to Perth Amboy via the following routing:

 

Route 35-Green Street, serve the Woodbridge Mall, then continue down Woodbridge Center Drive to Mutton Hollow Road to Route 9 to West Pond Road/Pfeiffer Blvd to State Street to Market Street to Sadowski Parkway (and loop back up Catalpa Avenue)

As for Woodbridge Mall, jump off Route 35, make a right on Main, then a right onto Woodbridge Center Drive, serve Woodbridge Mall, loop through the mall onto Route 9 following your proposed route. 

 

Pfeiffer stops before it runs into State so you'd have to route it down Amboy Road, left on Hall Ave and take that to State St. 

 

In terms of the service patterns, if the ridership warrants it, Howell could take a few of these trips on the weekends. 

 

An idea: Separate the #126 Hamilton Park extension from the main route. The #126 is far too busy to be serving that extension on 30 minute headways (in other words, if I lived in that area, I'd find it far too risky to take the #126 bus because I wouldn't know if I would be able to fit on one of those Hamilton Park trips).

 

I think a full-time route should run up the west side of Hoboken (further west than the Clinton/Willow trips, maybe up Monroe/Madison) and focus on getting down to Hamilton Park. I would extend this route down 8th/9th and Brunswick/Monmouth to Montgomery Street, and then take Montgomery to Baldwin, and terminate at Five Corners (where the #1/4/6/81 meet). This would give a direct ride to Manhattan from parts of Jersey City that are far from the PATH and HBLR (and #119). 

I kinda see where you're going here, although you could take it a step further and have go across Montgomery to West Side Ave, and have it terminate at the West Side Ave. HBLR station, and it can essentially fulfill the same purpose. 

An idea: Separate the #126 Hamilton Park extension from the main route. The #126 is far too busy to be serving that extension on 30 minute headways (in other words, if I lived in that area, I'd find it far too risky to take the #126 bus because I wouldn't know if I would be able to fit on one of those Hamilton Park trips).

 

I think a full-time route should run up the west side of Hoboken (further west than the Clinton/Willow trips, maybe up Monroe/Madison) and focus on getting down to Hamilton Park. I would extend this route down 8th/9th and Brunswick/Monmouth to Montgomery Street, and then take Montgomery to Baldwin, and terminate at Five Corners (where the #1/4/6/81 meet). This would give a direct ride to Manhattan from parts of Jersey City that are far from the PATH and HBLR (and #119). 

 
Edited by DaTransitMan4608
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As for Woodbridge Mall, jump off Route 35, make a right on Main, then a right onto Woodbridge Center Drive, serve Woodbridge Mall, loop through the mall onto Route 9 following your proposed route. 

 

Pfeiffer stops before it runs into State so you'd have to route it down Amboy Road, left on Hall Ave and take that to State St. 

 

In terms of the service patterns, if the ridership warrants it, Howell could take a few of these trips on the weekends. 

 

I kinda see where you're going here, although you could take it a step further and have go across Montgomery to West Side Ave, and have it terminate at the West Side Ave. HBLR station, and it can essentially fulfill the same purpose. 

 

I was thinking of having it replace the #48 in that part of Perth Amboy (so I would run it down Grove/Lawrence to State). The #815 would be replaced by a #816 (Perth Amboy-Plainfield that we mentioned earlier in the thread) and the #48 would have all trips run via Carteret and terminate at the Woodbridge Mall. 

 

Would A Route That Goes From Broadway Bus Terminal In Paterson To Newark Penn Station Via Lakeview Av and Another One That Goes From Newark Penn Station To Broad/Jersey St via Elizabeth Ave/N Broad St Work

 

The Newark Penn - Elizabeth Avenue - Broad Street route I would simply reroute either the #59/65/66 to Penn Station to provide that direct link.

 

Paterson-Newark Penn via the eastern part of Paterson....an interesting idea. I would have it run down Lakeview & Lexington (so it serves both Paterson & Passaic) and then go on Route 21 straight to Newark. 

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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  • 2 weeks later...

i do have an idea why not split the 113 S/N branches obviously the 113S and X stay while the N branch gets split and made it's own route say the 110 that way the 110/113 can be paired like the 114/117 and the 107 express services are branded the 109 bus  and 126 trips that go to hamilton park in peak direction will be labeled as the 118 

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i do have an idea why not split the 113 S/N branches obviously the 113S and X stay while the N branch gets split and made it's own route say the 110 that way the 110/113 can be paired like the 114/117 and the 107 express services are branded the 109 bus  and 126 trips that go to hamilton park in peak direction will be labeled as the 118 

 

What's the point in that?

 

The #117 is a rush hour variant of the #114, whereas the #110/113 would be two full-time routes that serve different parts of Hillside/Elizabeth/Union & Plainfield.

 

The thing with the #117 is that it also takes a different route from Bound Brook to North Plainfield (and doesn't go to Bridgewater Commons). So there's a difference there (whereas the #114X buses are similar to the #107X buses in that once they join the main route, they follow the normal path to the end)

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What's the point in that?

 

The #117 is a rush hour variant of the #114, whereas the #110/113 would be two full-time routes that serve different parts of Hillside/Elizabeth/Union & Plainfield.

 

The thing with the #117 is that it also takes a different route from Bound Brook to North Plainfield (and doesn't go to Bridgewater Commons). So there's a difference there (whereas the #114X buses are similar to the #107X buses in that once they join the main route, they follow the normal path to the end)

 

ok i understand regarding the 107x

 

regarding the 110/113 the schedule is divided in half for the 113 S and N just split the north avenue runs off to another route which is where the 110 comes into play and the 113 S would get increased service (my basis is when i always used to wait for the 114 in the pabt at the venerable gate 222 i always used to see the people ask the dispatcher S or N)  

 

and what do you think about splitting the hamilton park runs on the 126 buses to give it to say a 118 route as a peak service similar to the 117 and obviously i mentioned in another thread that the 126 should be increased to 24 hours.

Edited by BreeddekalbL
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ok i understand regarding the 107x

 

regarding the 110/113 the schedule is divided in half for the 113 S and N just split the north avenue runs off to another route which is where the 110 comes into play and the 113 S would get increased service (my basis is when i always used to wait for the 114 in the pabt at the venerable gate 222 i always used to see the people ask the dispatcher S or N)  

 

and what do you think about splitting the hamilton park runs on the 126 buses to give it to say a 118 route as a peak service similar to the 117 and obviously i mentioned in another thread that the 126 should be increased to 24 hours.

 

Alright, I see what you're saying, especially since both the S & N branches have X versions. 

 

And yes, I would agree wholeheartedly with that (I actually made a post about it too on the previous page). There's too much of a mismatch in ridership between the core #126 route to Hoboken and the part-time extension to Hamilton Park. 

 

On a side note, thinking of heavy routes with extensions, I'm not sure if anybody brought up the #1 bus. I would have the main route run to Euclid Avenue, but with more short-turns at Newark Penn (Ideally, I'd terminate all buses at Newark Penn, but I'm not sure if there's capacity for a heavy route like the #1, especially if there were a few more Broad Street routes serving Newark Penn like I proposed earlier). To cover the Newark-JC portion I'd run another route (Let's call it #3 for argument's sake) from somewhere in the vicinity of Broad & Market over to Exchange Place/Journal Square. I'm not fond of artics on low-frequency routes, so I'd boost the frequency a bit too and run standard buses. (Which would help out the #4/81, and to a certain extent the #80 since it's a quicker route to Downtown JC)

 

Also, I think the #107 should allow Union City-EWR trips. I can understand EWR-PABT trips since those compete with Olympia Trails, but for EWR-Union City, the only alternative is the #40/62/go28 to the #108. I guess they're afraid somebody will buy a ticket to Union City and stay on until NYC, but that could happen on any route. (And especially since it only serves the North Area and not the actual terminals)

 

EDIT: Alright, looking at it again, I see that the restriction only applies to Terminals A/B/C, which is more reasonable since people can take the #37/40/go28 to connect to/from the #107 to reach Union City (and most #107 trips bypass the passenger terminals anyway)

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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regarding the 113 the S has more service with the express and the N has only hourly service with no express 

 

During rush hour, the X buses all run down the north side of the train tracks through Plainfield (Midway Avenue). The trips that run through Netherwood are labeled SX.

 

Looking at the outbound schedule, I see 19 buses labeled X, and only 4 labeled SX, and the X buses have a longer span and run more frequently than the SX buses.

 

I don't know how it works in practice, but on the schedule, the S & N buses are supposed to alternate. (So the whole Hillside/Union/Elizabeth area really gets the short end of the stick because the expresses all bypass them, and they only have alternate locals). 

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I've procrastinated long enough... sorry bud...

 

Minor reroute of the #59 & #112 in Roselle: Stay on 3rd Avenue until Chestnut Street instead of turning onto Sheridan Avenue & 2nd Avenue. Buses would take 3rd-Chestnut-1st. 

 

I'd almost be inclined to have the #112 stay on 3rd (since the #113 is on the other side of the tracks), but seeing how it's a supplement to the #59, it's probably better to have it supplement the #59 as long as possible (distance-wise)

I remember fanning the full #59 (from Dunellen) years ago & asked myself why are buses running on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.... I sort of understand why they don't keep buses on 1st the whole way through (which turns into Grand, approaching Elizabeth).... Soon as I got home, I checked the doug & adrienne maps.... Opened up a google map in another tab... Zoomed in on the portion of 3rd av the #59 doesn't run on....

 

Then I was like "oh, so that's what it is"....

 

What I'm referring to (to you, in this post) are the schools on that portion of the route... I have no idea about the history of NJT's routes, but I do know that residents actually have a say as to what streets a bus route can actually be traveled on.... If Roselle requested that buses not run on that portion of 3rd, again, it would explain the #59's routing in that area....

 

In my experiences, little to no one gets on/off along 2nd, so it's negligible...

 

At minimum, I do agree with having buses turn up Chestnut, instead of Locust....

 

To provide some more coverage in Clifton, some of those Passaic short-turns on the #190 should be extended to St. Joseph's Medical Center via Piaget Avenue, and then the #707 route (those trips run rush hours, peak direction only).

 

The #753 should have all trips run to New Milford. Selected #166 trips would be extended to County Road to compensate.

1] That's not a bad idea - for the #74.... Have those 74u's run along Paulson with the #707 to the hospital...

Those short turns #190's I would leave ending in downtown Passaic....

 

2] I would try to find a way to merge the #753 into the #772.... that route is basically a short turn #772 that travels west of Hackensack, instead of south of it....

 

Hmmm...interesting....the #161 is actually scheduled to be a little bit quicker from Paterson to PABT compared to the #190 (whenever I go, I always take the minibuses, so it doesn't matter either way)

 

Anyway, on a proposals-related note, I have the following:

 

#145 extended across 10th Avenue (Passaic County Route 651) and Madison Avenue, to terminate with the #748 in Riverside.

 

New route (not sure what to call it, maybe #197A) runs rush hours, peak direction. Takes Route 46 to Union Blvd/Union Avenue, then Broadway-Burhans Avenue-Temple Street-North 7th Street, and terminates in Prospect Park (the #744 loop)

 

Basically, the idea is to provide a one-seat ride from NE Paterson and NW Paterson (the neighborhoods that are far from the #151/161/190 and I guess the #171) to Manhattan. 

 

Also, not sure if I mentioned this before, but I would have the #707 run down West Broadway, Presidential Blvd, Haledon Avenue, and terminate in Prospect Park (the #744 would bypass that little loop). 

- Simply put, #161 is more industrial... not to mention the sweet ride you get along rt. 46....

It's a good ride along the #190 as well, but be prepared to see more passenger activity... The 190 is used interchangeably w/ the 74 (which is a high ridership route in its own right).... IDK if the 161 is used interchangably w/ said #707, but let's just say that the #707 doesn't come close to carrying the loads the #74 does... LOL.....

 

- #145 I don't think I've ever taken, so I can't comment...

 

- That route 46 express seems like a bit much, but in any case, IDK if those folks even want Manhattan....

Question I have is, do you have buses making stops at any point along rt 46?

 

- Yeah, I believe you mentioned that last suggestion before.

 

If anybody is familiar with the Atlantic City routes, maybe they can explain why the #504/505 meander around the eastern part of Atlantic City.

(I) Couldn't tell you; as the AC fanning I've done have mainly been on the full service routes (#55_'s) .... Still have to get around to fanning every single one of those AC locals... I've done the 501 a couple times & the longport route (505) twice....

 

An idea: Separate the #126 Hamilton Park extension from the main route. The #126 is far too busy to be serving that extension on 30 minute headways (in other words, if I lived in that area, I'd find it far too risky to take the #126 bus because I wouldn't know if I would be able to fit on one of those Hamilton Park trips).

 

I think a full-time route should run up the west side of Hoboken (further west than the Clinton/Willow trips, maybe up Monroe/Madison) and focus on getting down to Hamilton Park. I would extend this route down 8th/9th and Brunswick/Monmouth to Montgomery Street, and then take Montgomery to Baldwin, and terminate at Five Corners (where the #1/4/6/81 meet). This would give a direct ride to Manhattan from parts of Jersey City that are far from the PATH and HBLR (and #119). 

Agree 100%.... Simply put, all #126 trips should be running b/w Hoboken PATH & PABT... Having it run to Pavonia/Newport & Hamilton Park is overkill & rather unnecessary IMO....

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I remember fanning the full #59 (from Dunellen) years ago & asked myself why are buses running on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.... I sort of understand why they don't keep buses on 1st the whole way through (which turns into Grand, approaching Elizabeth).... Soon as I got home, I checked the doug & adrienne maps.... Opened up a google map in another tab... Zoomed in on the portion of 3rd av the #59 doesn't run on....

 

Then I was like "oh, so that's what it is"....

 

What I'm referring to (to you, in this post) are the schools on that portion of the route... I have no idea about the history of NJT's routes, but I do know that residents actually have a say as to what streets a bus route can actually be traveled on.... If Roselle requested that buses not run on that portion of 3rd, again, it would explain the #59's routing in that area....

 

In my experiences, little to no one gets on/off along 2nd, so it's negligible...

 

* Gotchu on the #59/112.

 

1] That's not a bad idea - for the #74.... Have those 74u's run along Paulson with the #707 to the hospital...

Those short turns #190's I would leave ending in downtown Passaic....

 

2] I would try to find a way to merge the #753 into the #772.... that route is basically a short turn #772 that travels west of Hackensack, instead of south of it....

 

1) Alright, that makes sense, but if it's the #74U, I would have those buses run all the way up to the Broadway Bus Terminal (so as not to reduce the total amount of buses heading up Main to Paterson). 

 

2) Alright, that makes sense, then. Basically, it looks like the #753 runs at the same frequency as the #772, but with a longer span (and Saturday service). So you can have the core route from New Milford to Hackensack every 30 minutes or so (with a span similar to the current #753), and the full route (East Rutherford-Paramus) every hour with the span of the current #772. 

 

Between Hackensack & Bergen Town Center, I would just leave them with the #752. Between Downtown Hackensack and the Bergen Town Center, there's also the #168/751/755, and the residential areas near the #752 are also near the #175/770, so it's not too bad. 

 

- Simply put, #161 is more industrial... not to mention the sweet ride you get along rt. 46....

It's a good ride along the #190 as well, but be prepared to see more passenger activity... The 190 is used interchangeably w/ the 74 (which is a high ridership route in its own right).... IDK if the 161 is used interchangably w/ said #707, but let's just say that the #707 doesn't come close to carrying the loads the #74 does... LOL.....

 

- #145 I don't think I've ever taken, so I can't comment...

 

- That route 46 express seems like a bit much, but in any case, IDK if those folks even want Manhattan....

Question I have is, do you have buses making stops at any point along rt 46?

 

- Yeah, I believe you mentioned that last suggestion before.

 

You mean the #744 (which parallels the #161 within Paterson)? And yeah, looking more closely at the #161 route, I can see how it would be quicker. 

 

Basically, it would be a branch of those #19X routes that head out towards Wayne, Preakness, etc (those suburbs west of Paterson). Except it would serve Paterson proper. So it would take Route 3 up to Route 46, with the first stop at Union & Wilson in Totowa.

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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wasn't there a proposal to extend the Newark Light Rail to EWR?

It was floated around, but NJT decided to scrap it. It was suppose to go to EWR and Elizabeth via Jersey Gardens.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I Have An Proposal: 

 

51: Runs From Woodcliff Av And Anderson Av Down Blvd East To 14th St and Willow Av Runs Down 11th/Clinton (Willow For Journal Sq Bound Clinton For North Bergen) Turns On Newark St To Observer Hwy To Palisade Av Down To Newark Av Then Goes The 80 Way To Journal Sq Some Trips Serve Hamilton Park It Can Easy Crowding On The 126,128,165 and 166 Buses By Redirecting Those Passengers To The PATH

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I Have An Proposal: 

 

51: Runs From Woodcliff Av And Anderson Av Down Blvd East To 14th St and Willow Av Runs Down 11th/Clinton (Willow For Journal Sq Bound Clinton For North Bergen) Turns On Newark St To Observer Hwy To Palisade Av Down To Newark Av Then Goes The 80 Way To Journal Sq Some Trips Serve Hamilton Park It Can Easy Crowding On The 126,128,165 and 166 Buses By Redirecting Those Passengers To The PATH

The Headways Are Every 12 Min For Rush Hour There Also The Hamilton Park Trips Start At 7:00 Am and 8:00 Am and 5:30 and 6:30 PM

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I Have An Proposal: 

 

51: Runs From Woodcliff Av And Anderson Av Down Blvd East To 14th St and Willow Av Runs Down 11th/Clinton (Willow For Journal Sq Bound Clinton For North Bergen) Turns On Newark St To Observer Hwy To Palisade Av Down To Newark Av Then Goes The 80 Way To Journal Sq Some Trips Serve Hamilton Park It Can Easy Crowding On The 126,128,165 and 166 Buses By Redirecting Those Passengers To The PATH

 

Not while the #89 a few blocks east on Park Avenue runs on such crappy headways. I'd rather see a boost on the #89 (and #22 for that matter) before a new North Bergen-Hoboken route is created. And you're not going to get those people to pay extra money ($2.55 + $2.10 for the PATH vs. $3.50 for the bus to NY or $3 for a jitney) when they would have to make an extra transfer and spend an extra 20 minutes getting down to the PATH to do so. 

 

Now if some type of NJT rail station were built in Union City (maybe as part of the ARC project) then at the very least, you would be taking away demand for buses & jitneys to NY in that general area (Union City, North Bergen, etc).

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I Have An Proposal: 

 

51: Runs From Woodcliff Av And Anderson Av Down Blvd East To 14th St and Willow Av Runs Down 11th/Clinton (Willow For Journal Sq Bound Clinton For North Bergen) Turns On Newark St To Observer Hwy To Palisade Av Down To Newark Av Then Goes The 80 Way To Journal Sq Some Trips Serve Hamilton Park It Can Easy Crowding On The 126,128,165 and 166 Buses By Redirecting Those Passengers To The PATH

So to sum it up, Nungessers - JSQ via Blvd East & Hoboken proper? I seriously don't see a demand for that.....

 

Even if you wanted to do that, it'd be simpler to expand the service span of, restructure the routing of, and extend a route that already has the general blueprint for what you want to accomplish... It's called the #23.

 

Not while the #89 a few blocks east on Park Avenue runs on such crappy headways. I'd rather see a boost on the #89 (and #22 for that matter) before a new North Bergen-Hoboken route is created.....

Don't know if I said it on here before, but I would try to have the #89 & the #22 be one service/under one umbrella with slightly more BPH dedicated to it, than is singularly provided for the #22... If there's any agency that can pull it off with as many variants it has for other routes, it is NJ Transit.

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Don't know if I said it on here before, but I would try to have the #89 & the #22 be one service/under one umbrella with slightly more BPH dedicated to it, than is singularly provided for the #22... If there's any agency that can pull it off with as many variants it has for other routes, it is NJ Transit.

 

That sounds like a good idea. From what I understand, the #89 is basically a version of the #22 that runs via Weehawken so it's a little bit quicker (and I guess in the sections where it runs down Park, it's an attempt to be within walking distance of Blvd East)

 

How about if the #89 runs with the #22 straight down Bergenline (and NY Avenue south of 48th Street) until 30th/31st Street and then makes its way to Park Avenue? That way, anybody coming off those 30th/31st Street buses has the option of either one to get to Hoboken, as opposed to having to rely on one or the other.

 

I have to say, for a while, I had to make a trip from Oradell to Hoboken (in the PM rush when the Pascack Valley Line doesn't run southbound). I would've gladly coughed up the extra money for the train if it meant avoiding the ridiculous unreliability of the buses. It seemed like every time I tried to make that trip, something went wrong and the trip took twice as long as it should've. 

 

One of those times, I got a lift to the #167, took that to Union City, and thought I was making good time until I basically ran around like a lunatic for an hour from Summit (#85) to Bergenline (#22) to Park (#89) checking the NJT bus tracker and trying to figure out which was the best bus to take. Eventually I got fed up and just took the #86 and walked down through the 9th Street HBLR station to get to Hoboken. (I asked people if the #126 stopped anywhere near there. It turned out it was about a 10 minute walk down Blvd East to 19th Street, but of course, nobody knew). My gut feeling when I first got off the bus was to just walk to the HBLR station, but of course, I chanced it and that's what I got lol.

 

But yeah, if routes can be consolidated so that there's some reliable alternative to the HBLR heading from northern Hudson County down to Hoboken, that would be great.

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