NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 5/3/2022 at 3:26 PM, BreeddekalbL said:

I have a proposal on the 161

would it be worth it to just add a stop to the american dream mall and elimnate the 355? and im sure they will wack the 356 also .

purpose is to cut the "premium fare" on the 355 by eliminating the route and the 356 also and free up more buses 

going nb to patterson would exit at the interchange to the mall follow regular route like 85 to stand ,then head north on stand then head north on american dream way to turn right onto plaza M which becomes plaza K turn left onto N connection road bear right then turn left onto patterson plank road then turn right onto washington ave to proceed regular route .

 

to New york regular route to W peripheral road exit Right on W peripheral road to road D then turn right on road D then road D becomes E peripheral rd left at american drean way then bear left to stand, Head north On american drean way to turn right on plaza M then bear left to plaza L then turn left on road D to rt 120 on ramp then regular route.

I do agree with getting rid of the 355. Relatively low base to begin with (relies exclusively on folks from NYC, which are okay with coughing up that fare). 

As far as which NY route should serve American Dream, I guess I would be in a minority here, but I think it should be a route which could have the biggest potential to also attract intra-Jersey riders from areas the 85, 703, and 772 don't serve). So that would eliminate the 161 from the equation (I personally just don't see it picking people up from that area alongside route 46). 

I actually think it should be the 163 or 164 that picks up there (and I'm leaning more towards the 164). The 190 runs kinda close to the 703 for the most part (and the latter directly serves both Downtown Passaic and Patterson), and the 160 I just don't see it improving intra-state ridership (plus the route is also already kinda winding past Union City).

So on that basis, the only nearby routes that seem feasible would be the 163 or the 164. The 163 does hit more connections and is the more frequent of the two (although having every bus serve the place might be excessive), but it stops in Union City during off-peak hours (whereas the 164 doesn't). The 164 also serves more areas than the 163 and is close to it for large sections of it's route, and has frequencies similar to the 160 on weekends. If the 163 were to serve it instead of the 164, it would get messy to denote which goes and which doesn't go to the mall. So I personally think the 164 can benefit the most out of it. 

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

The apparent consensus is for the #161 to do so (and I get it, being that it's by far the more popular route), but I'd rather have the #160 supplant the #355... On top of the fact that it also operates in the general area, it could use the ridership boost more; kind of like how they got the off peak & weekend #115 helping out the #111 to/from Jersey Gardens (except of course, it wouldn't be helping out anything - as it would take on all of the current patronage the #355 garners)...

I used to think this for similar reasons in the past, but over time I've changed my stance on this (see above). 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I do agree with getting rid of the 355. Relatively low base to begin with (relies exclusively on folks from NYC, which are okay with coughing up that fare). 

As far as which NY route should serve American Dream, I guess I would be in a minority here, but I think it should be a route which could have the biggest potential to also attract intra-Jersey riders from areas the 85, 703, and 772 don't serve). So that would eliminate the 161 from the equation (I personally just don't see it picking people up from that area alongside route 46). 

I actually think it should be the 163 or 164 that picks up there (and I'm leaning more towards the 164). The 190 runs kinda close to the 703 for the most part (and the latter directly serves both Downtown Passaic and Patterson), and the 160 I just don't see it improving intra-state ridership (plus the route is also already kinda winding past Union City).

So on that basis, the only nearby routes that seem feasible would be the 163 or the 164. The 163 does hit more connections and is the more frequent of the two (although having every bus serve the place might be excessive), but it stops in Union City during off-peak hours (whereas the 164 doesn't). The 164 also serves more areas than the 163 and is close to it for large sections of it's route, and has frequencies similar to the 160 on weekends. If the 163 were to serve it instead of the 164, it would get messy to denote which goes and which doesn't go to the mall. So I personally think the 164 can benefit the most out of it. 

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The apparent consensus is for the #161 to do so (and I get it, being that it's by far the more popular route), but I'd rather have the #160 supplant the #355... On top of the fact that it also operates in the general area, it could use the ridership boost more; kind of like how they got the off peak & weekend #115 helping out the #111 to/from Jersey Gardens (except of course, it wouldn't be helping out anything - as it would take on all of the current patronage the #355 garners)...

  I used to think this for similar reasons in the past, but over time I've changed my stance on this (see above). 

I would choose the #163/4 over the #161 (not for the reason of not attracting riders along rt. 46 though, but because the Paterson area already has the #703 going to/from the mall), but I wouldn't choose the #163/4 over the #160.... You say you don't see the #160 attracting enough intra-state ridership (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but I don't see the #163/4 doing much on that note to/from American Dream either... Not to mention, at minimum, those two PABT-Ridgewood routes carry way more pax. b/w NYC & NJ than the #160 does.... If your target intra-NJ riderbase is that of those in Bergen County, then this part of the discussion we're having is rather null & void, b/c the vast majority of folks in Bergen County are too enthralled with the Paramus area malls...

On weekends, I would have whatever number of #160 trips run b/w PABT & Rutherford RR via American Dream... I wouldn't have every bus inherited from the #355 running the full route of the #160...

[BreeddekalbL]

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Ouch... I wouldn't bother extending the #13 to Passaic for any reason, let alone before opting to extend that proposed Newark Bus Study's route #75 northward... Although I still believe there to be *some* value with having buses remain running to Nutley, there is a significant dropoff in usage once you start getting deeper into Belleville....

If the ultimate idea behind extending the #13 to Passaic is to have an Irvington - Newark -  Passaic route, I'd say you're far better off having the #13 get truncated at the Big Tree Garage (like the Newark Bus Study proposes) & having an express route connect Paterson & Passaic to Newark proper (similar to, if not exactly how @checkmatechamp13 suggested a good while back)....

Newark-Penn & White Plains TransCenter has about half of that amount, and both occupy far more space than the immediate area around Passaic Bus Terminal.... The smallest terminal I can think of that also has about half of that amount, is Broadway bus terminal up in Paterson (and look how tiny those "islands" are inside there)... Of the many times I've been to that terminal, I cannot remember the last time a #72 entered into, or left from inside the bus terminal itself...

165th st terminal, Hempstead bus terminal, and Atlantic City bus terminal have more lanes, but they are not island style...

While I could agree that more space for buses & pax over there is somewhat warranted, 10-12 island style lanes for Passaic bus terminal is ridiculous....

The apparent consensus is for the #161 to do so (and I get it, being that it's by far the more popular route), but I'd rather have the #160 supplant the #355... On top of the fact that it also operates in the general area, it could use the ridership boost more; kind of like how they got the off peak & weekend #115 helping out the #111 to/from Jersey Gardens (except of course, it wouldn't be helping out anything - as it would take on all of the current patronage the #355 garners)...

1. I agree with what you said about the 13 the route would become a little too long but it was only a temporary measure until the 75 gets implemented 

2. I was figuring the "island style" bus lanes basing it off what I have here where at 1 terminal we have 4 nb lanes and 4 south bound lanes that's how the "island" comes about 

If I were to design the terminal  using my island concept help me keep score 

Nb lanes 

74 

190 

702 

703 

705 (terminates)

707

744 (terminates)

Sb lanes

74 

190

702 

703 

707

758 (terminates)

780 (terminates)

Would I really need 14?! 

3. I agree and saw @BM5 via Woodhaven's idea 

7 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I do agree with getting rid of the 355. Relatively low base to begin with (relies exclusively on folks from NYC, which are okay with coughing up that fare). 

As far as which NY route should serve American Dream, I guess I would be in a minority here, but I think it should be a route which could have the biggest potential to also attract intra-Jersey riders from areas the 85, 703, and 772 don't serve). So that would eliminate the 161 from the equation (I personally just don't see it picking people up from that area alongside route 46). 

I actually think it should be the 163 or 164 that picks up there (and I'm leaning more towards the 164). The 190 runs kinda close to the 703 for the most part (and the latter directly serves both Downtown Passaic and Patterson), and the 160 I just don't see it improving intra-state ridership (plus the route is also already kinda winding past Union City).

So on that basis, the only nearby routes that seem feasible would be the 163 or the 164. The 163 does hit more connections and is the more frequent of the two (although having every bus serve the place might be excessive), but it stops in Union City during off-peak hours (whereas the 164 doesn't). The 164 also serves more areas than the 163 and is close to it for large sections of it's route, and has frequencies similar to the 160 on weekends. If the 163 were to serve it instead of the 164, it would get messy to denote which goes and which doesn't go to the mall. So I personally think the 164 can benefit the most out of it. 

I used to think this for similar reasons in the past, but over time I've changed my stance on this (see above). 

I see your point I agree would adding all 4 be worth it they all go by there and can create a big P/R there

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I would choose the #163/4 over the #161 (not for the reason of not attracting riders along rt. 46 though, but because the Paterson area already has the #703 going to/from the mall), but I wouldn't choose the #163/4 over the #160.... You say you don't see the #160 attracting enough intra-state ridership (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but I don't see the #163/4 doing much on that note to/from American Dream either... Not to mention, at minimum, those two PABT-Ridgewood routes carry way more pax. b/w NYC & NJ than the #160 does.... If your target intra-NJ riderbase is that of those in Bergen County, then this part of the discussion we're having is rather null & void, b/c the vast majority of folks in Bergen County are too enthralled with the Paramus area malls...

On weekends, I would have whatever number of #160 trips run b/w PABT & Rutherford RR via American Dream... I wouldn't have every bus inherited from the #355 running the full route of the #160...

I see,  I would designate those trips as a 160D 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I would choose the #163/4 over the #161 (not for the reason of not attracting riders along rt. 46 though, but because the Paterson area already has the #703 going to/from the mall), but I wouldn't choose the #163/4 over the #160.... You say you don't see the #160 attracting enough intra-state ridership (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but I don't see the #163/4 doing much on that note to/from American Dream either... Not to mention, at minimum, those two PABT-Ridgewood routes carry way more pax. b/w NYC & NJ than the #160 does.... If your target intra-NJ riderbase is that of those in Bergen County, then this part of the discussion we're having is rather null & void, b/c the vast majority of folks in Bergen County are too enthralled with the Paramus area malls...

On weekends, I would have whatever number of #160 trips run b/w PABT & Rutherford RR via American Dream... I wouldn't have every bus inherited from the #355 running the full route of the #160...

It wasn't my intention to specifically cater to Bergen County residents, regardless which of the 160s (except the 161) was chosen, that would have been the case. However from a ridership standpoint, I see the 164 doing better than the 160 over time, even with the mall patronage trends in Bergen. Besides the difference in catchment area, I overall see more potential for ridership from the service area along the 164 (particularly from Maywood, Hackensack and points south).

While there's no question that the 163/164 carries more than the weight than the 160, I would say that at least on the 164, the runtime changes wouldn't be significant (at most, it would take the same amount of time as the 163 via Union City trips to/from points north/west of the Meadowlands). It also wouldn't require the addition of buses with the extra stop (although it may require some rescheduling from both terminals). 

6 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I see your point I agree would adding all 4 be worth it they all go by there and can create a big P/R there.

Given that North Bergen and Vince Lombardi Park & Rides are not too far away, I don't see the need to make another one at American Dream. 

Also, adding all four routes to American Dream would be excessive. If the mall was that big of a ridership generator maybe, but that's definitely not the case now.

 

[B35 via Church]

15 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

It wasn't my intention to specifically cater to Bergen County residents, regardless which of the 160s (except the 161) was chosen, that would have been the case. However from a ridership standpoint, I see the 164 doing better than the 160 over time, even with the mall patronage trends in Bergen. Besides the difference in catchment area, I overall see more potential for ridership from the service area along the 164 (particularly from Maywood, Hackensack and points south).

I brought up Bergen County due to the fact that 100% of its service area is within it, once it crosses the Hudson (river) - being that it doesn't serve Union City.... That said, while not being your intention, I'm not seeing who else you'd be trying to cater to specifically on that route otherwise then.... Aside from that, I'd say you wouldn't have much of a choice excluding the difference in catchment area b/w the 2 routes, because you'd have quite the fight on your hands in getting those Bergen County residents north of 208 on board (no pun intended) with having their buses even divert to stopping at American Dream....

In any event, what you're conveying is that you see more potential with the #164's routing at & south of rt. 4.... I think that difference in ridership potential south of rt. 4 on both routes in question to/from the mall is negligible at best (in favor of the #164)... Not remotely enough to tip the scale for me - even in excluding the #164 north of rt. 4.... I mean, the #163 better/serves more of Maywood, whereas the #164 barely straddles it.... The part of Hackensack undergoing growth/revitalization is proximate to the bus terminal, where the #164 isn't all that close... Those that would resort to taking public transit to get to American Dream from around there, would merely do so on the #772...

15 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

While there's no question that the 163/164 carries more than the weight than the 160, I would say that at least on the 164, the runtime changes wouldn't be significant (at most, it would take the same amount of time as the 163 via Union City trips to/from points north/west of the Meadowlands). It also wouldn't require the addition of buses with the extra stop (although it may require some rescheduling from both terminals). 

Sure, but the runtime changes would affect more interstate commuters.... That's one factor I'm considering, over intrastate ridership potential.... This is where you start getting into the whole benefit vs. inconvenience sort of ordeal.... Regardless of whether the #160 or the #164 is chosen, either way we're talking about band-aid solutions... The only demand I've heard of (by actual riders) for having a route (other than the #355 obviously) stop at the mall is actually the #161.... IDK of any latent demand on either the #160 or the #163/4 for American Dream...

Having the #160 serve American Dream wouldn't require any additional buses either really... I only brought that part of it up b/c @BreeddekalbL mentioned freeing up more buses (that's currently used on the #355)...

21 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

1. I agree with what you said about the 13 the route would become a little too long but it was only a temporary measure until the 75 gets implemented 

It's not even worth it temporarily.... Extending the #13 along the #709, to eventually get to Passaic Terminal is the clumsy way to go about doing it anyway...

21 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

2. I was figuring the "island style" bus lanes basing it off what I have here where at 1 terminal we have 4 nb lanes and 4 south bound lanes that's how the "island" comes about 

If I were to design the terminal  using my island concept help me keep score 

**list of routes that operate in/around the vicinity of Passaic Terminal**

Would I really need 14?!

I'm still trying to figure out how much eminent domain you plan on declaring around Passaic Terminal to have something like this implemented... Even if there was a centralized terminal around there, it would have too many buses doing too much meandering to get to/from & in/out of it.... And why would every route need its own lane necessarily? Some of those routes can easily share lanes....

(btw, you forgot about the jitneys.... can't exclude the jitneys... Not even GWB terminal excludes the jitneys!!!)

21 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I see your point I agree would adding all 4 be worth it they all go by there and can create a big P/R there

LOL, you're not getting people to speficially drive to American Dream to catch a bus.... I'm not sure if you're aware of how many NJ patrons abhor American Dream's mere existence.

21 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I see, I would designate those trips as a 160D 

I guess... I mean, call it whatever you'd like....

Edited May 10, 2022 by B35 via Church
combined post.

[BreeddekalbL]

17 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Sure, but the runtime changes would affect more interstate commuters.... That's one factor I'm considering, over intrastate ridership potential.... This is where you start getting into the whole benefit vs. inconvenience sort of ordeal.... Regardless of whether the #160 or the #164 is chosen, either way we're talking about band-aid solutions... The only demand I've heard of (by actual riders) for having a route (other than the #355 obviously) stop at the mall is actually the #161.... IDK of any latent demand on either the #160 or the #163/4 for American Dream...

Having the #160 serve American Dream wouldn't require any additional buses either really... I only brought that part of it up b/c @BreeddekalbL mentioned freeing up more buses (that's currently used on the #355)...

It's not even worth it temporarily.... Extending the #13 along the #709, to eventually get to Passaic Terminal is the clumsy way to go about doing it anyway...

I'm still trying to figure out how much eminent domain you plan on declaring around Passaic Terminal to have something like this implemented... Even if there was a centralized terminal around there, it would have too many buses doing too much meandering to get to/from & in/out of it.... And why would every route need its own lane necessarily? Some of those routes can easily share lanes....

(btw, you forgot about the jitneys.... can't exclude the jitneys... Not even GWB terminal excludes the jitneys!!!)

LOL, you're not getting people to speficially drive to American Dream to catch a bus.... I'm not sure if you're aware of how many NJ patrons abhor American Dream's mere existence.

I guess... I mean, call it whatever you'd like....

The demand regarding the 161 did they survey the riders and that frequently comes up?

to answer your queston regarding the terminal location it would be in that parking lot across the street from main ave  basiclly that whole parking lot from Madison to Jefferson would be gone and i read most of those buses DO not operate on sunday except the 74 190 and 703 idk maybe i reduce the lanes? im not sure and most of those buses operate frequently m-f while they are hourly on saturday

Lmao i would be replacing the meadowlands P/R 

Edited May 10, 2022 by BreeddekalbL

[Lawrence St]

I rode the 83 for the first time yesterday…what…the hell?

for one, a local route that takes an hour and a half that’s prone to delays of up to 45 minutes is a horrible idea. Summit Avenue south of 8th St is so tight you lose 20 minutes easily.

It needs to be split into three routes. There’s no reason the 83 has to go all the way up to Route 4 and back down instead of just going across the bridge before Anderson St.

the split should be:

Hackensack -> West Side & 69th St.

Shaler Blvd -> Bergenline & 32nd St

Bergenline & 32nd St —> Journal Square

[Lawrence St]

46 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I rode the 83 for the first time yesterday…what…the hell?

for one, a local route that takes an hour and a half that’s prone to delays of up to 45 minutes is a horrible idea. Summit Avenue south of 8th St is so tight you lose 20 minutes easily.

It needs to be split into three routes. There’s no reason the 83 has to go all the way up to Route 4 and back down instead of just going across the bridge before Anderson St.

the split should be:

Hackensack -> West Side & 69th St.

Shaler Blvd -> Bergenline & 32nd St

Bergenline & 32nd St —> Journal Square

The 84…

I have no issues with the main 84, but why does the 84P & 89 towards JSQ have to go down 79th St, right on Bway, left on 75th, and then right on Park? 
 

The 86P…

Why dosent this route go to 91st St? With how insane Bergenline is, you’d think you need all the buses you can get.

The 89…

if I’m being honest, this route needs to be streamlined. It should either be a Park Av or Bergenline Av route, not both. The 84 and 84P can be combined to replace the meandering parts of the 89.

The 156…

this route needs to be booted off Bergenline Av entirely. It needs to remain on Park Avenue until at least 60th or 77th St and then continue up to Englewood Cliffs.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Lawrence St

[biGC323232]

17 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I rode the 83 for the first time yesterday…what…the hell?

for one, a local route that takes an hour and a half that’s prone to delays of up to 45 minutes is a horrible idea. Summit Avenue south of 8th St is so tight you lose 20 minutes easily.

It needs to be split into three routes. There’s no reason the 83 has to go all the way up to Route 4 and back down instead of just going across the bridge before Anderson St.

the split should be:

Hackensack -> West Side & 69th St.

Shaler Blvd -> Bergenline & 32nd St

Bergenline & 32nd St —> Journal Square

You do realize a good bulk of the ridership comes from JSQ-Summit Ave...Splitting it 3 ways wont solve anything in my opinion...Would force ppl to do unnessary Transfers....What they can do in my opinion is add a couple of Express runs in the peak direction...I would have it express from Jsq-Bergen Tpke am vice versa pm using JFK Blvd Between the 2 

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, biGC323232 said:

You do realize a good bulk of the ridership comes from JSQ-Summit Ave...Splitting it 3 ways wont solve anything in my opinion...Would force ppl to do unnessary Transfers....What they can do in my opinion is add a couple of Express runs in the peak direction...I would have it express from Jsq-Bergen Tpke am vice versa pm using JFK Blvd Between the 2 

That’s why the JSQ->Summit Av portion isn’t split. Most people get off the bus in Union City anyway.

[BreeddekalbL]

Would it even be worth it splitting the 83 into 2 Hackensack to tonnelle Ave hblr then hblr to jsq? The hblr to jsq would be known as the 77

Edited May 11, 2022 by BreeddekalbL

[biGC323232]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

That’s why the JSQ->Summit Av portion isn’t split. Most people get off the bus in Union City anyway.

 

25 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Would it even be worth it splitting the 83 into 2 Hackensack to tonnelle Ave hblr then hblr to jsq? The hblr to jsq would be known as the 77

Some not Most get off in Union City...Again splitting this route other than making it express on a certain portion isnt really gonna do much...There are ppl that travel to Hackensack from both JC and UC and Vice Versa.......Forcing ppl in the middle of the route to transfer to another bus  to complete there trip is gonna cause Complaints from JC And UC passengers....  

[BreeddekalbL]

12 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

 

Some not Most get off in Union City...Again splitting this route other than making it express on a certain portion isnt really gonna do much...There are ppl that travel to Hackensack from both JC and UC and Vice Versa.......Forcing ppl in the middle of the route to transfer to another bus  to complete there trip is gonna cause Complaints from JC And UC passengers....  

Or for the express route you either have 2 options either via 1/9 or run it via 1/9 then 3 to 495 into 95 then 46 🤷‍♂️

[go25]

17 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Or for the express route you either have 2 options either via 1/9 or run it via 1/9 then 3 to 495 into 95 then 46 🤷‍♂️

I try to avoid anything involving 1&9 and 495

[biGC323232]

27 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Or for the express route you either have 2 options either via 1/9 or run it via 1/9 then 3 to 495 into 95 then 46 🤷‍♂️

 

8 minutes ago, go25 said:

I try to avoid anything involving 1&9 and 495

Yes i would avoid those Areas Totally.....If i was to make a 83 express i would have it run from JSQ-Bergen Tpke peak direction only via JFK Blvd

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, biGC323232 said:

 

Some not Most get off in Union City...Again splitting this route other than making it express on a certain portion isnt really gonna do much...There are ppl that travel to Hackensack from both JC and UC and Vice Versa.......Forcing ppl in the middle of the route to transfer to another bus  to complete there trip is gonna cause Complaints from JC And UC passengers....  

I don't know when you ride the 83, but I rode it during the peak when I had work in Jersey City in both AM and PM and mostly everyone got off along Summit or at 32nd & Bergenline, and the rest at the River Line at 49th St.

[B35 via Church]

I'll say this much about the #83....  It doesn't need to be split to where any portion of its route would terminate in Union City.... Having the route run between JSQ & Ridgefield (Broad/Shaler) would be ideal for most of the Jersey City - Union City - North Bergen crowd, but the issue there is that there isn't a (feasible) area to terminate buses full time anywhere around that H-Mart shopping center off Shaler/Broad....

I think the #83 should remain a JSQ - Hackensack route, however I think it should take a different course to Hackensack after Ridgefield... Something like [remaining on rt. 46 to Huyler st,] or [taking I-80 for the one exit to get across the Hackensack River to get to Huyler st], to parallel the #772 to Hackensack bus terminal...

[Lawrence St]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'll say this much about the #83....  It doesn't need to be split to where any portion of its route would terminate in Union City.... Having the route run between JSQ & Ridgefield (Broad/Shaler) would be ideal for most of the Jersey City - Union City - North Bergen crowd, but the issue there is that there isn't a (feasible) area to terminate buses full time anywhere around that H-Mart shopping center off Shaler/Broad....

I think the #83 should remain a JSQ - Hackensack route, however I think it should take a different course to Hackensack after Ridgefield... Something like [remaining on rt. 46 to Huyler st,] or [taking I-80 for the one exit to get across the Hackensack River to get to Huyler st], to parallel the #772 to Hackensack bus terminal...

That's one way, but you still deal with the issues that Summit Avenue becomes unbelievably narrow south of PPR. And why doesn't this route have short turns anywhere?

[biGC323232]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'll say this much about the #83....  It doesn't need to be split to where any portion of its route would terminate in Union City.... Having the route run between JSQ & Ridgefield (Broad/Shaler) would be ideal for most of the Jersey City - Union City - North Bergen crowd, but the issue there is that there isn't a (feasible) area to terminate buses full time anywhere around that H-Mart shopping center off Shaler/Broad....

I think the #83 should remain a JSQ - Hackensack route, however I think it should take a different course to Hackensack after Ridgefield... Something like [remaining on rt. 46 to Huyler st,] or [taking I-80 for the one exit to get across the Hackensack River to get to Huyler st], to parallel the #772 to Hackensack bus terminal...

 

3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

That's one way, but you still deal with the issues that Summit Avenue becomes unbelievably narrow south of PPR. And why doesn't this route have short turns anywhere?

Back in the 90s i can recall some 83s did terminate in Ridgefield....I dont know if it was the exact spot b35 metioned but i do remember that

[dkm07302]

On 5/10/2022 at 4:20 PM, Lawrence St said:

I rode the 83 for the first time yesterday…what…the hell?

for one, a local route that takes an hour and a half that’s prone to delays of up to 45 minutes is a horrible idea. Summit Avenue south of 8th St is so tight you lose 20 minutes easily.

It needs to be split into three routes. There’s no reason the 83 has to go all the way up to Route 4 and back down instead of just going across the bridge before Anderson St.

the split should be:

Hackensack -> West Side & 69th St.

Shaler Blvd -> Bergenline & 32nd St

Bergenline & 32nd St —> Journal Square

While I agree on how long the ride of the #83 is (which I like if I'm being honest), its one of those leave it like it is or overhaul it completely route. I do think an express route should be made. I know people from jersey city and union city who take that route to Hackensack to transfer to one of the other routes at the terminal, so asking them to make another transfer would be crazy. Plus, that route is usually busy, it not like it's empty, especially during morning and afternoon rush-hours. 

[B35 via Church]

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

That's one way, but you still deal with the issues that Summit Avenue becomes unbelievably narrow south of PPR. And why doesn't this route have short turns anywhere?

You're going to deal with the narrowness of the roads in Union City regardless.... That is hardly a reason to split a route.

The #83 used to short turn in North Bergen with the #121 (the Westside av trips) before they eventually turned them off at 69th IIRC, to go on doing the full route to Hackensack.... That happened sometime in the early 2010's; I wanna say around 2013 or 14....

[46Dover]

I think whoever thought of that 192/199 detour in Nutley needs to be on the street and shot 🤦‍♂️

Edited May 14, 2022 by 46Dover

[Lawrence St]

On 5/13/2022 at 5:04 AM, B35 via Church said:

You're going to deal with the narrowness of the roads in Union City regardless.... That is hardly a reason to split a route.

The #83 used to short turn in North Bergen with the #121 (the Westside av trips) before they eventually turned them off at 69th IIRC, to go on doing the full route to Hackensack.... That happened sometime in the early 2010's; I wanna say around 2013 or 14....

From my understanding the 83W runs the entire length of Westside from 83rd St to Union Turnpike.

[B35 via Church]

11 hours ago, 46Dover said:

I think whoever thought of that 192/199 detour in Nutley needs to be on the street and shot 🤦‍♂️

Back on 4/16, I took the full #192 - and yeah, that detour is murder... Crazy enough, we still got to NYC in a little over an hour (the 10:06am trip made the left off Fenner & got there exactly at 10:06, and we got to NYC at 11:08am).... Pretty sure the main reason for that was because there was no passenger activity past Allwood Circle... I was a bit surprised that we got as many pax. as we did north of the rt. 3/GSP interchange (we had about 1/2 a seated load)....

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

From my understanding the 83W runs the entire length of Westside from 83rd St to Union Turnpike.

Just checked the schedule... Yes, it turns off on 83rd (quite the coincidence; the #83 turning off on 83rd st), which is even better AFAIC....

On 5/10/2022 at 5:06 PM, Lawrence St said:

The 84…

I have no issues with the main 84, but why does the 84P & 89 towards JSQ have to go down 79th St, right on Bway, left on 75th, and then right on Park?

Town ordinance that bars buses from continuing on 79th, east of Broadway.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7988683,-74.0011765,3a,27.7y,145.31h,86.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2QiLW3gt1blHeZ-P3P34oA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

On 5/10/2022 at 5:06 PM, Lawrence St said:

The 86P…

Why dosent this route go to 91st St? With how insane Bergenline is, you’d think you need all the buses you can get.

The short answer to this question is, the extension of the HBLR to Tonnelle av.

See, the #86 is a derivative of the #84... The #86 used to run up to Nungessers, until they scaled the thing back to 48th/49th st (where Bergenline HBLR is located) to have the base route (as in, the #84) continue serving the rest of Bergenline av. on up to Nungessers... Not too long after that phase of the HBLR was completed, was when the #86 got scaled back to Bergenline HBLR.... Considering what the thing (86) does in Jersey City & the demand for the #84 along Palisade & Bergenline from JSQ alone, I'd say it was very much a reasonable move/truncation....

On 5/10/2022 at 5:06 PM, Lawrence St said:

The 89…

if I’m being honest, this route needs to be streamlined. It should either be a Park Av or Bergenline Av route, not both. The 84 and 84P can be combined to replace the meandering parts of the 89.

There is definitely demand from along Park av. to get to Bergenline av, so I'm not seeing a need to have the #89 either be a straight Park av. route, or be that much more of a duplicate to the #22 along Bergenline.... This notion that the #84/#84P (or whatever you mean by "The 84 and 84P can be combined...") would be a viable replacement for the #89 is baseless on two fronts:

1. The #84P does nothing to bring Park av riders to the HBLR.
2. The #84/84P & the #89 have two completely separate terminals on their southern ends (JSQ & Hoboken, respectively).

On 5/10/2022 at 5:06 PM, Lawrence St said:

The 156…

this route needs to be booted off Bergenline Av entirely. It needs to remain on Park Avenue until at least 60th or 77th St and then continue up to Englewood Cliffs.

Needs specificity...

What would you have it do between [60th/Park] & [Edgewater Rd., in Cliffside Park] ?

[46Dover]

15 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Back on 4/16, I took the full #192 - and yeah, that detour is murder... Crazy enough, we still got to NYC in a little over an hour (the 10:06am trip made the left off Fenner & got there exactly at 10:06, and we got to NYC at 11:08am).... Pretty sure the main reason for that was because there was no passenger activity past Allwood Circle... I was a bit surprised that we got as many pax. as we did north of the rt. 3/GSP interchange (we had about 1/2 a seated load)....

When we first started that detour (having no visual aids) I drove westbound and made the left down Washington Av off Kingsland (near Clifton Commons).  I kept looking for the street to turn down (which was supposed to be Centre St) and thought if I keep going any further, I’m gonna end up in Newark or something.  So I turned down Grant Ave and went to Passaic, then resumed the route at Kingsland.  After my day was done I went right to supervision and said look, a lot of us may not be familiar with the area so if you and Nutley are going to be bullish on us about this detour, at least give us a detailed Route on it.   I haven’t seen how the 13 uses it’s detour, but would like to see how that route travels.