Bay Ridge R train often leaving 59th St (Bklyn) as N express arriving

[TwoTimer]

if you ever see me operate, its safe to say im early.

[blazer]

Just yesterday, a Bay Ridge-bound was held at 36 Street to make a connection with my . The was in turn held at 59 Street to wait for the same . Wouldn't it have made sense to let the go at 36 Street so both trains would meet up once at 59 Street and get to their destinations faster?

 

this happens often when i ride. those that were on the N that need to make the connection with R for 45st & 53st. those that get on at 45st & 53st that need to get on the N to go down the sea beach line.

[TwoTimer]

The prior are more people than the latter. Usually the connection takes place at 36th (providing no behind) and thats it. It seldom occurs again at 59th.

[AndrewJC]

First of all, I assume you're applying that same argument to the MNRR & LIRR, whose FRRs are also lower than the subway.

 

 

I'm not. The issues with the commuter railroads are very different from the issues with express buses. Express buses are heavily subsidized premium services that typically provide an alternative to a local bus connecting with a higher-capacity mode (either ferry or subway). My simple argument is that premium services should not be heavily subsidized. The commuter railroads are the most efficient transit routes from the suburbs to Manhattan; they are the highest-capacity vehicles in the suburbs.

 

I calculated the average cost per passenger on SI buses as roughly $2.50. (Or something in that area, at least before the service reductions). That means the farebox recovery ratio was also in the the 50% range. Does that mean that we should eliminate most SI routes? There are also some routes out in Eastern Queens that have a similar FRR. After all, we shouldn't have moved out to an area that requires more expensive transit to serve us.

 

If you want to think about it this way: Since the express fare is (for simplicity's sake), 2.5 times the local fare, you can think of it as the person paying for 2.5 people at the local fare instead of just themselves at a higher fare. IMO, percentages mean more than absolute numbers in these instances.

 

 

One could make that argument, but that's not the argument that I'm making. I don't have a big problem subsidizing a simple, no-frills bus to the subway or ferry. But if you want a long direct bus ride all the way to Midtown Manhattan, that doesn't ned to be subsidized

 

I would argue that the absolute subsidy is the more interesting measure.

 

The way you say "convenience" makes it sound like there's an easy alternative. There isn't.

 

 

In many cases, bus to ferry to subway. (If that seems excessive, keep in mind that many subway riders have one or two transfers as well.) If the express bus fare were raised to the point that many express bus riders opted for the slower/cheaper option, many local buses would see service increases to accommodate the greater loads - so bus riders not going to Manhattan would benefit as well.

 

Aside from that, the high farebox recovery ratio isn't due to a lack of ridership. It's due to the nature of express buses, which is to have heavily peaked operations. Compare the weekend FRRs to the weekday FRRs and you'll see a huge difference. Back in 2010, the X1 cost $8.02 per passenger to operate, and I think the weekend service cost $4.83 to operate, which is a 53% FRR vs. an 83% FRR. Since then, I believe the weekday cost has decreased to $7.27 due to the restructuring they did, so that would be a 58% FRR.

 

In any case, if the MTA found a way to increase reverse-peak and off-peak ridership (while decreasing peak riderhship), they could make better use of their resources and the farebox recovery ratio would increase. The easiest way is through an off-peak discount.

 

 

Absolutely, the heavy peaking is a major factor, and since express routes are so long, it's usually impossible to squeeze more than one or maybe two peak-period, peak-direction trips out of each bus and operator. Local routes have much less peaking, and in many cases they can make several trips in the peak period.

 

Another factor is the lack of turnover. An express bus carries a maximum of 57 paying passengers per trip (ignoring marginal cases like Via Garibaldi 8 getting off at pick-up-only stops or the disputed status of the Bay Ridge X17 stop), while many busy local bus routes carry more riders per trip than can fit on the bus, because they're not all on the bus at the same time.

 

I certainly would object strongly to discounting express bus fares even more than they are already! But I agree that off-peak fares should be lower than rush hour fares.

 

I'm not seeing how this refutes his point, though. He's saying buses are meant to compliment the subway, and one way they do that is by serving as a backup when there's a problem.

 

 

They serve as a backup for the small number of lucky riders who can fit, but the rest have to find another subway line or wait for service to resume.

 

That's a completely absurd statement. That's like saying that the LIRR isn't necessary for Long Island. Your stance is quite arrogant and what you're basically saying is that if an area of the city isn't served particularly by a subway then **** them. In short these people can pay into the system but shouldn't have the service that they need. Disgusting. That's clearly your stance since you offer no reasonable alternatives.

 

 

Most Manhattan-bound transit riders outside of walking distance to the subway take a local bus to the subway. I'm sorry if that's beneath you.

 

Excuse me, but the X27 carries millions of riders every year #1 and #2 many of the Bay Ridge subway stations are not ADA accessible, which causes hardships for those people who can't reach the subway and the is well aware of this. The X27 serves commuters along Shore Rd, which is a schlepp from the subway and cuts down on the commutes to Manhattan considerably since it gives those commuters a one seat ride. Without, many would face unnecessary commutes well over an hour with several transfers via the subway.

 

 

Not even close. The X27 and X28 combined had 788,035 paid fares in 2011 (not the same thing as 788,035 riders), including trips both from and to Bay Ridge. For comparison's sake, the 86th Street station - just one of several in Bay Ridge - had 3,445,470 paid fares, counting only entries and not exits.

 

The MTA is aware that most subway stations are not ADA accessible. The MTA is also aware that a large majority of non-ADA-accessible subway stations are still not served by express buses. You, apparently, are not.

 

Those "commutes well over an hour with several transfers via the subway" sound like the commutes faced by most other people who live outside of walking distance to the subway!

 

If some Bay Ridge residents would prefer a shorter commute, they're more than welcome to pay for it themselves or to find somewhere else to live. I only object if they expect subsidies from other New Yorkers - New Yorkers who are have longer commutes themselves and New Yorkers who are already paying extra to live near the subway.

 

Your ignorant attitude is quite disgusting which basically says if a community doesn't have subway service well too bad. You seriously can't believe that subways can serve everyone and if you do you are sadly mistaken. The cost involved would be astronomical and thus bus service is far more practical.

 

 

I never said that. Bus service to the nearest subway station is far more efficient than bus service for miles and miles into Manhattan!

 

Yes, the guideline capacity is 57. That is no secret. You really sound ridiculous comparing the capacity of an express bus to a subway. Subways are meant to serve dense areas. Express buses are meant to serve areas that don't have subway service and tend to be not as densely populated.

 

I suppose you also believe that areas like Co-op city also don't need express bus service when they have absolutely no subway service in the immediate area.

 

 

Then I have a news flash for you: Bay Ridge is served by the subway!

 

Co-op City has well-used local bus service to several subway lines. If some Co-op City residents would prefer the convenience or speed of a direct bus ride to Manhattan, they're welcome to pay for it themselves.

 

No the general purpose is the same and you know it. However, how the two function are completely different, so you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

 

Not at all. You and I can start at the exact same point in Co-op City and end at the exact same point in Manhattan, you traveling by express bus and me taking the local bus to the subway. Your trip is much more heavily subsidized than mine. Why should my tax or fare dollars pay for your convenience or comfort? You could have joined me on the local bus and subway, but you opted for the express bus.

[checkmatechamp13]

I'll probably add more tomorrow, but for now....

 

I'm not. The issues with the commuter railroads are very different from the issues with express buses. Express buses are heavily subsidized premium services that typically provide an alternative to a local bus connecting with a higher-capacity mode (either ferry or subway). My simple argument is that premium services should not be heavily subsidized. The commuter railroads are the most efficient transit routes from the suburbs to Manhattan; they are the highest-capacity vehicles in the suburbs.

 

 

But that's the point: They may be the most efficient route in the suburbs, but they're still heavily subsidized, in part due to archaic work rules. I'll try to see if I can find the numbers on that.

 

One could make that argument, but that's not the argument that I'm making. I don't have a big problem subsidizing a simple, no-frills bus to the subway or ferry. But if you want a long direct bus ride all the way to Midtown Manhattan, that doesn't ned to be subsidized

 

I would argue that the absolute subsidy is the more interesting measure.

 

 

Well, in that case, the ferry has a cost per passenger of close to $5. A while back (maybe a year ago), there was a plan to put a $0.50 fare on the ferry, and they mentioned that the farebox recovery ratio would only be about 5% (because the fare would only be charged one way). The DOT is subsidizing it rather than the MTA, but it's still taxpayer dollars.

 

In many cases, bus to ferry to subway. (If that seems excessive, keep in mind that many subway riders have one or two transfers as well.) If the express bus fare were raised to the point that many express bus riders opted for the slower/cheaper option, many local buses would see service increases to accommodate the greater loads - so bus riders not going to Manhattan would benefit as well.

 

 

They don't have to deal with the ferry's crappy headways (30 minutes for most of the day vs. 10 minutes for the subway). Aside from that, I the issue isn't just convenience, but speed. In my case, no matter what I did, I couldn't get the trip time down to what it would've been on the express bus, regardless of whether I went to Brooklyn for the or took the ferry, and no matter how well the connections were made.

 

Not at all. You and I can start at the exact same point in Co-op City and end at the exact same point in Manhattan, you traveling by express bus and me taking the local bus to the subway. Your trip is much more heavily subsidized than mine. Why should my tax or fare dollars pay for your convenience or comfort? You could have joined me on the local bus and subway, but you opted for the express bus.

 

 

Not necessarily. The BxM7 is one of the most efficient lines in the system, especially on weekends. I think the weekday FRR is something like 83%, which is better than a lot of local routes. Even in absolute terms, the subsidy is only a dollar (even less on the weekends), and considering the fact that a local rider has to be subsidized for both the bus & subway, the express bus is roughly equal in this case.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm not. The issues with the commuter railroads are very different from the issues with express buses. Express buses are heavily subsidized premium services that typically provide an alternative to a local bus connecting with a higher-capacity mode (either ferry or subway). My simple argument is that premium services should not be heavily subsidized. The commuter railroads are the most efficient transit routes from the suburbs to Manhattan; they are the highest-capacity vehicles in the suburbs.

 

 

 

One could make that argument, but that's not the argument that I'm making. I don't have a big problem subsidizing a simple, no-frills bus to the subway or ferry. But if you want a long direct bus ride all the way to Midtown Manhattan, that doesn't ned to be subsidized

 

I would argue that the absolute subsidy is the more interesting measure.

 

 

 

In many cases, bus to ferry to subway. (If that seems excessive, keep in mind that many subway riders have one or two transfers as well.) If the express bus fare were raised to the point that many express bus riders opted for the slower/cheaper option, many local buses would see service increases to accommodate the greater loads - so bus riders not going to Manhattan would benefit as well.

 

 

 

Absolutely, the heavy peaking is a major factor, and since express routes are so long, it's usually impossible to squeeze more than one or maybe two peak-period, peak-direction trips out of each bus and operator. Local routes have much less peaking, and in many cases they can make several trips in the peak period.

 

Another factor is the lack of turnover. An express bus carries a maximum of 57 paying passengers per trip (ignoring marginal cases like Via Garibaldi 8 getting off at pick-up-only stops or the disputed status of the Bay Ridge X17 stop), while many busy local bus routes carry more riders per trip than can fit on the bus, because they're not all on the bus at the same time.

 

I certainly would object strongly to discounting express bus fares even more than they are already! But I agree that off-peak fares should be lower than rush hour fares.

 

 

 

They serve as a backup for the small number of lucky riders who can fit, but the rest have to find another subway line or wait for service to resume.

 

 

 

Most Manhattan-bound transit riders outside of walking distance to the subway take a local bus to the subway. I'm sorry if that's beneath you.

 

 

 

Not even close. The X27 and X28 combined had 788,035 paid fares in 2011 (not the same thing as 788,035 riders), including trips both from and to Bay Ridge. For comparison's sake, the 86th Street station - just one of several in Bay Ridge - had 3,445,470 paid fares, counting only entries and not exits.

 

The MTA is aware that most subway stations are not ADA accessible. The MTA is also aware that a large majority of non-ADA-accessible subway stations are still not served by express buses. You, apparently, are not.

 

Those "commutes well over an hour with several transfers via the subway" sound like the commutes faced by most other people who live outside of walking distance to the subway!

 

If some Bay Ridge residents would prefer a shorter commute, they're more than welcome to pay for it themselves or to find somewhere else to live. I only object if they expect subsidies from other New Yorkers - New Yorkers who are have longer commutes themselves and New Yorkers who are already paying extra to live near the subway.

 

 

 

I never said that. Bus service to the nearest subway station is far more efficient than bus service for miles and miles into Manhattan!

 

 

 

Then I have a news flash for you: Bay Ridge is served by the subway!

 

Co-op City has well-used local bus service to several subway lines. If some Co-op City residents would prefer the convenience or speed of a direct bus ride to Manhattan, they're welcome to pay for it themselves.

 

 

 

Not at all. You and I can start at the exact same point in Co-op City and end at the exact same point in Manhattan, you traveling by express bus and me taking the local bus to the subway. Your trip is much more heavily subsidized than mine. Why should my tax or fare dollars pay for your convenience or comfort? You could have joined me on the local bus and subway, but you opted for the express bus.

 

Obviously you do not know enough about each express bus line otherwise you will not be bashing them so much. They are very important to areas FAR from subways and LIRR/MNRR VERY FAR where the local bus is too slow to make a link to the subway therefore becoming inefficient for speed. X27 and ALL SI X lines and BM1 and QM5/6/7/8 and 2/20 and 24/25 and all BXM lines except BXM4&6 ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND ARE WELL USED. The lines not mentioned are either only useful at rush hour in BM2,3&4's case or utterly useless ala X64,63 and QM3/18 zero use whatsoever.

 

There are limits to the subway/local bus commute sometimes it is NOT worth it as it's too slow. Express buses can be efficient if they serve outside areas not near subways and LIRR taking people to manhattan much faster the ferry is COMPLETE SHIT!!!!!!! There are limits to what the subway network can do. Not every trip can be done fast with local to subway people want SPEED!!!!!!! That matters alot. Sometimes in the case of BM3 the express bus fails to be faster than the subway failing to do it's very job IF you board on ocean ave!!!!!!!

[Guest Lance]

Guys, this isn't an express bus thread. It's about poor timing on the R leading to missed connections. You want to have a discussion about the costs and benefits of the express bus service, please do so it the bus section of the forum.

[RollOver]

I've ridden the 179th Street the last fewer weeks and the local to Forest Hills always pull out when arriving and/or stopping at Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Avenue...

[realizm]

Same observation here with trains pulling out of Roosevelt.

 

Edit: Wait a minute, Manhattan or Forest Hills bound?

[TwoTimer]

I've ridden the 179th Street the last fewer weeks and the local to Forest Hills always pull out when arriving and/or stopping at Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Avenue...

 

Weekdays the is out there too, there's no need for a connection at Roosevelt. Weekend is another story...

[RollOver]

Same observation here with trains pulling out of Roosevelt.

 

Edit: Wait a minute, Manhattan or Forest Hills bound?

 

 

Either way.

[4P3607]

I can't believe what they did to the I was on today, I took the from Woodhaven, at Roosevelt I transferred for the across the platform (I was originally going to stay on that since it was 5636). I take the , it seems to go slow on its way to Queens Plaza. Once we get to Queens Plaza, the holding lights go on and we wait for the same that we met at Roosevelt! It took about 5 minutes too. What's the point of express service if they are going to do that?

 

Also the other day I was on a Forest Hills bound , I had came off the and the arrived. When I got on the , an arrived across the platform. Right before the train stopped the doors closed on the , and it was practically empty (no standees) when I rode it to Woodhaven. All the customers coming off that were obviously annoyed, i'd be too. I know its rush hour, but you can't hold the train for 10 seconds to connect with that ?

[161 New York]

In response to "Express buses are not a necessity, even in Staten Island. They are a costly convenience, and their cost should be borne by

those who use them."

 

That's a completely absurd statement. That's like saying that the LIRR isn't necessary for Long Island. Your stance is quite arrogant and what you're basically saying is that if an area of the city isn't served particularly by a subway then **** them. In short these people can pay into the system but shouldn't have the service that they need. Disgusting. That's clearly your stance since you offer no reasonable alternatives.

 

 

I agree with VG8! On Staten Island express buses are an absolute necessity. If anything, on Staten Island, the embarrassment known as the Staten Island Ferry would be considered a "costly convenience" in terms of the rabid abuse of overtime, inadequate procurement of the ferries that break down constantly and the gosh darn fish tanks (where the fish don't live that long) costing $750,000 that got put in using city tax-dollars from a still-living politician that has his name on one of the Staten Island ferries!!

 

Anyways, to get back on the topic at hand: The R is the worst subway in my opinion in part for this reason. If I catch it at 86th Street and didn't see it when it met with the N, I would stay on or get off at Jay Street/Metrotech and get on the A/C train at Atlantic/Pacific Street.

 

I rarely use any other lines other than the and notice that the trains meet and will generally wait for a few moments consistently at W4 and 42nd St/PABT.

[TwoTimer]

That is TA crew trends. often see an pulling in and the C/R will wait for it as more will leave their train than come on from the . crews don't like to connect at 42 although the tower will often hold the train for a connection it made with the same train at W4. Often 59 will repeat the same connection at 59th if its a . The track layout is different whereas the express doesn't really save any time from the local from Canal - 59.

 

Oh, and what's so interesting about 5636?

[qjtransitmaster]

In response to "Express buses are not a necessity, even in Staten Island. They are a costly convenience, and their cost should be borne by

those who use them."

 

 

 

I agree with VG8! On Staten Island express buses are an absolute necessity. If anything, on Staten Island, the embarrassment known as the Staten Island Ferry would be considered a "costly convenience" in terms of the rabid abuse of overtime, inadequate procurement of the ferries that break down constantly and the gosh darn fish tanks (where the fish don't live that long) costing $750,000 that got put in using city tax-dollars from a still-living politician that has his name on one of the Staten Island ferries!!

 

Anyways, to get back on the topic at hand: The R is the worst subway in my opinion in part for this reason. If I catch it at 86th Street and didn't see it when it met with the N, I would stay on or get off at Jay Street/Metrotech and get on the A/C train at Atlantic/Pacific Street.

 

I rarely use any other lines other than the and notice that the trains meet and will generally wait for a few moments consistently at W4 and 42nd St/PABT.

 

Truer words can't be spoken.

[B35 via Church]

Coming home from SI fanning today, more of the same....

 

Boarded an at 86th st.... We got to 59th st, most of the pax that were on the platform motioned (and eventually got on) the train.....

We pull out the station (I'm in the 2nd to last car)... and what comes roaring into the station?

 

An train.... and I heard a lady explicitly say "I told you we should have waited for the N, god, you're such a dumbass"

(I'm assuming that was her dude she was talking to)....

 

I just sat back down and shook my head (while thinkin about this thread) & said to myself...

"Typical"....

[KTrainExp]

What's even worse is (B)/(D) service in Columbus Circle or 125th. I don't know what the dispatchers are thinking sometimes, because at 59th, the should be given priority, but often times that is not the case. I've seen the sit at 59th with holding lights to connect to the only to have the pull out first. Plus, the lack of announcements indicating which train hits 6th avenue first doesn't help and when the conductor does make that announcement, the other train already has its doors closed.

 

At 125th street, I've seen (B)s with holding lights for about a minute to two minutes only to have the doors close on as a pulls into the station. Especially in the morning rush, loads of people who boarded at 125 get pissed seeing the pass 135th as the train is being held.

 

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would penalize the dispatchers who aren't doing their job efficiently. Not only is it incredibly frustrating, but the conductors and the T/Os bear the complaints from the customers even though its really the dispatchers fault. TA should hold a 3 strike rule on dispatchers cause these events happen on a daily basis.

[realizm]

Many times the and come right on cue, right on time at 59th Street, and the trains wait for transfer, it seems until the 4th Ave line hits capacity during rush hour but only until a certain point during the AM runs. So I know it can be done. The trains always seems on scedule on the Manhattan bound.

 

It's on the Brooklyn bound trains that the delays happen and out of sync cooridination of trains gets a bit crazy. On the PM runs. Where I must see D trains in droves while the and the for that matter lags behind. Still dont get it. Can anyone explain this (or point out a point in a post that I missed in this thread?)

 

TwoTimer mentioned delays. But why? I'm still thinking its the congestion that occurs at Dekalb Avenue. I think that may be the reason.

[nu1116]

Many times the and come right on cue, right on time at 59th Street, and the trains wait for transfer, it seems until the 4th Ave line hits capacity during rush hour but only until a certain point during the AM runs. So I know it can be done. The trains always seems on scedule on the Manhattan bound.

 

It's on the Brooklyn bound trains that the delays happen and out of sync cooridination of trains gets a bit crazy. On the PM runs. Where I must see D trains in droves while the and the for that matter lags behind. Still dont get it. Can anyone explain this (or point out a point in a post that I missed in this thread?)

 

TwoTimer mentioned delays. But why? I'm still thinking its the congestion that occurs at Dekalb Avenue. I think that may be the reason.

 

Based on my experience on the BMT Broadway Line, during PM rush hours, many Brooklyn bound are directly behind the . I think the MTA does this to keep the Broadway local riders away from the , which is already crowded with the Sea Beach and 4th Ave riders.

 

However, the will be easily delayed due to long interval between the previous and the next , and the next will also be delayed. I had taken a that took almost 20 minutes to get from Times Square to Canal St, which normally should take only 12 minutes...

[Dan05979]

What's even worse is (B)/(D) service in Columbus Circle or 125th. I don't know what the dispatchers are thinking sometimes, because at 59th, the should be given priority, but often times that is not the case. I've seen the sit at 59th with holding lights to connect to the only to have the pull out first. Plus, the lack of announcements indicating which train hits 6th avenue first doesn't help and when the conductor does make that announcement, the other train already has its doors closed.

 

At 125th street, I've seen (B)s with holding lights for about a minute to two minutes only to have the doors close on as a pulls into the station. Especially in the morning rush, loads of people who boarded at 125 get pissed seeing the pass 135th as the train is being held.

 

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would penalize the dispatchers who aren't doing their job efficiently. Not only is it incredibly frustrating, but the conductors and the T/Os bear the complaints from the customers even though its really the dispatchers fault. TA should hold a 3 strike rule on dispatchers cause these events happen on a daily basis.

 

 

Get over it, its not that serious

[realizm]

What's even worse is (B)/(D) service in Columbus Circle or 125th. I don't know what the dispatchers are thinking sometimes, because at 59th, the should be given priority, but often times that is not the case. I've seen the sit at 59th with holding lights to connect to the only to have the pull out first. Plus, the lack of announcements indicating which train hits 6th avenue first doesn't help and when the conductor does make that announcement, the other train already has its doors closed.

 

At 125th street, I've seen (B)s with holding lights for about a minute to two minutes only to have the doors close on as a pulls into the station. Especially in the morning rush, loads of people who boarded at 125 get pissed seeing the pass 135th as the train is being held.

 

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would penalize the dispatchers who aren't doing their job efficiently. Not only is it incredibly frustrating, but the conductors and the T/Os bear the complaints from the customers even though its really the dispatchers fault. TA should hold a 3 strike rule on dispatchers cause these events happen on a daily basis.

 

 

Yeah dude the dispatchers I'm sure are just doing their job as I'm trying to do my job and everyone else here, MTA Transit employee or otherwise, not trying to diss. As to your concerns: We were discussing these issues in another thread related to the IND CPW btw, just a heads up.

 

Edit: No I am not an MTA employee. I work in an unrelated field.

[AndrewJC]

What's even worse is (B)/(D) service in Columbus Circle or 125th. I don't know what the dispatchers are thinking sometimes, because at 59th, the should be given priority, but often times that is not the case.

 

 

Why should the D necessarily be given priority? What if the D is running early and the B is running late?

 

At 125th street, I've seen (B)s with holding lights for about a minute to two minutes only to have the doors close on as a pulls into the station. Especially in the morning rush, loads of people who boarded at 125 get pissed seeing the pass 135th as the train is being held.

 

 

It could be that the dispatcher didn't realize that the connection hadn't yet been made. (All he can see are lights on a model board showing which signal blocks are occupied - he doesn't know if the train has stopped or the doors have opened.)

 

Or it could be that the train was being held for some reason unrelated to connections.

 

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would penalize the dispatchers who aren't doing their job efficiently. Not only is it incredibly frustrating, but the conductors and the T/Os bear the complaints from the customers even though its really the dispatchers fault. TA should hold a 3 strike rule on dispatchers cause these events happen on a daily basis.

 

 

Since you have no idea why any particular train is or is not held on any given day, I have no idea how you can reach that conclusion.

[realizm]

Based on my experience on the BMT Broadway Line, during PM rush hours, many Brooklyn bound are directly behind the . I think the MTA does this to keep the Broadway local riders away from the , which is already crowded with the Sea Beach and 4th Ave riders.

 

However, the will be easily delayed due to long interval between the previous and the next , and the next will also be delayed. I had taken a that took almost 20 minutes to get from Times Square to Canal St, which normally should take only 12 minutes...

 

 

Could it be the long headways on the then in itself? Aside from the problems at Dekalb? I'm going to some research on this.

[TwoTimer]

What's even worse is (B)/(D) service in Columbus Circle or 125th. I don't know what the dispatchers are thinking sometimes, because at 59th, the should be given priority, but often times that is not the case. I've seen the sit at 59th with holding lights to connect to the only to have the pull out first. Plus, the lack of announcements indicating which train hits 6th avenue first doesn't help and when the conductor does make that announcement, the other train already has its doors closed.

 

At 125th street, I've seen (B)s with holding lights for about a minute to two minutes only to have the doors close on as a pulls into the station. Especially in the morning rush, loads of people who boarded at 125 get pissed seeing the pass 135th as the train is being held.

 

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would penalize the dispatchers who aren't doing their job efficiently. Not only is it incredibly frustrating, but the conductors and the T/Os bear the complaints from the customers even though its really the dispatchers fault. TA should hold a 3 strike rule on dispatchers cause these events happen on a daily basis.

 

This is entirely the case of a train being early. It is not hard to be early with the or at 59-CC. Ive been operating a and been a couple minutes early, and wait for the to come in and leave. Of course, I've done vice versa many more times. That is not on the crew, that's on the tower as we have no idea where a train behind us is. At least when I'm on the , I know I'm early, I make the announcement myself if they don't give me a lineup to leave right away, sometimes they let me cut in front the anyway cause I'm holding up an behind me.

[pjbr40]

It could be that the dispatcher didn't realize that the connection hadn't yet been made. (All he can see are lights on a model board showing which signal blocks are occupied - he doesn't know if the train has stopped or the doors have opened.)

 

Or it could be that the train was being held for some reason unrelated to connections.

 

 

 

I have to agree with you on that statement above. When i was little i was at the Metropolitan Avenue switch yard. All i see was the train passing by the tower near the LIRR track. We couldnt see what was going on at the terminal or Fresh Pond Road. The only thing this guy relied on was radio and model on the board where the train is located. That was it. It tough for these types of guy to see if connection is necessary or not. I like the West 4 Street lower level tower. They was the best in the past.