B35 via Church Posted February 11, 2013 Share #51 Posted February 11, 2013 The B20 will not be eliminated, the B83 can't handle Penn Avenue ridership on it's own, and the B20 has strong ridership in East New York. It'd be a pretty dumb idea to eliminate it. Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't think the B20 will get canned either.... but I do think this whole B84 bit is setting up for the eventual running of the 83 along penn..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 11, 2013 Share #52 Posted February 11, 2013 The B20 will not be eliminated, the B83 can't handle Penn Avenue ridership on it's own, and the B20 has strong ridership in East New York. It'd be a pretty dumb idea to eliminate it. They could do a modified version of my plan (B83 straight up Penn, B84 via Wortman & Penn to Broadway Junction), if they were really intent on eliminating the B20. Of course, I wouldn't advocate that, because it would cut off access from eastern ENY to Broadway Junction, but I'm just saying they might do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share #53 Posted February 11, 2013 I would have two service options where the B83 is split into two: Part-Time rush hour service via Penn Avenue (a B83A none-stop from New Lots Avenue to Flatlands Avenue, runs between 6AM-9AM & 3PM-8PM every 20 minutes,customers look out for the sign: B83A via PENN AVE) and leave the original B20/B83 routes alone and have the B84 extended north of New Lots Avenue Station, where it can runs on Van Siclen Avenue/Miller Avenue after Livonia Ave. Northern terminus: Van Siclen/Miller & Fulton Street , in the future. If the new route works out, that's kinda my proposal. Just tossing an idea. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted February 11, 2013 Share #54 Posted February 11, 2013 I would have two service options where the B83 is split into two: Part-Time rush hour service via Penn Avenue (a B83A none-stop from New Lots Avenue to Flatlands Avenue, runs between 6AM-9AM & 3PM-8PM every 20 minutes,customers look out for the sign: B83A via PENN AVE) and leave the original B20/B83 routes alone and have the B84 extended north of New Lots Avenue Station, where it can runs on Van Siclen Avenue/Miller Avenue after Livonia Ave. Northern terminus: Van Siclen/Miller & Fulton Street , in the future. If the new route works out, that's kinda my proposal. Just tossing an idea. Thoughts? May work but a little too complicated for them to propose. Don't think they would want to run a route on Van Siclen /Miller. At least they rejected that in the mid 70s when Community Board 5 proposed something like that. The B20 will not be eliminated, the B83 can't handle Penn Avenue ridership on it's own, and the B20 has strong ridership in East New York. It'd be a pretty dumb idea to eliminate it. They can always claim to increase B83 service to make up for the loss of the B20 and they could propose the B6 taking over the eastern portion of the B20 in East New York since it wouldn't have to serve New Lots Station any longer with the B84 in service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share #55 Posted February 11, 2013 Shoot! I thought it could be a possibility, Ehh. Thanks BrooklynBus. I was always wanted to see a new route go stop at both Van Siclen & Stations on Van Siclen/Miller or Hendrix, but I guess the Q8 and B13 can cover the lines because of service to Euclid Avenue & Crescent St Stations. I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 12, 2013 Share #56 Posted February 12, 2013 May work but a little too complicated for them to propose. Don't think they would want to run a route on Van Siclen /Miller. At least they rejected that in the mid 70s when Community Board 5 proposed something like that. They can always claim to increase B83 service to make up for the loss of the B20 and they could propose the B6 taking over the eastern portion of the B20 in East New York since it wouldn't have to serve New Lots Station any longer with the B84 in service. B6 is too long I'd just restructure the B20 if push comes to shove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 12, 2013 Share #57 Posted February 12, 2013 May work but a little too complicated for them to propose. Don't think they would want to run a route on Van Siclen /Miller. At least they rejected that in the mid 70s when Community Board 5 proposed something like that. They can always claim to increase B83 service to make up for the loss of the B20 and they could propose the B6 taking over the eastern portion of the B20 in East New York since it wouldn't have to serve New Lots Station any longer with the B84 in service. what makes up for loss of van siclen ave service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted February 12, 2013 Share #58 Posted February 12, 2013 what makes up for loss of van siclen ave service? With a continuous route down Pennsylvania, they could argue the Van Siclen service is no longer necessary and Van Siclen users could either walk to Pennsylvania or Cleveland/Ashford and still be within or close to the walking guidelines. That's how it was anyway when the B83 went straight down Pennsylvania in the early 70s and moving the B83 to Penn saves them route miles which is all they care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 12, 2013 Share #59 Posted February 12, 2013 With a continuous route down Pennsylvania, they could argue the Van Siclen service is no longer necessary and Van Siclen users could either walk to Pennsylvania or Cleveland/Ashford and still be within or close to the walking guidelines. That's how it was anyway when the B83 went straight down Pennsylvania in the early 70s and moving the B83 to Penn saves them route miles which is all they care about.but doesn't van siclen bypass penn ave traffic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 12, 2013 Share #60 Posted February 12, 2013 but doesn't van siclen bypass penn ave traffic? I don't think there's too much traffic on Pennsylvania Avenue. Aside from that, the portion along New Lots is kind of slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 12, 2013 Share #61 Posted February 12, 2013 but doesn't van siclen bypass penn ave traffic? Moot point. The B83 has to deal with new lots av "traffic" to get back to penn av.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transit222 Posted February 12, 2013 Share #62 Posted February 12, 2013 Don't be surprised if they also extend the Q7 route from the Euclid Avenue Subway Station to the IRT New Lots Avenue Subway Station via former Q21A routing along Euclid Avenue,Linden Blvd. and Ashford Street. Between the Q7 and new B84 serving Ashford Street will ensure that they'll later reroute the B6, B20 and B83. They could also later extend the B84 from the New Lots Avenue Subway Station to the Broadway Junction so that the B83 could be rerouted straight along Pennslyvania Avenue and terminate at Pennslyvania Avenue/Seaview Avenue and than send the B82 to the Gateway Center Mall instead of the B83 route. The B6 could take over the eastern end of the B20 east of Ashford Street up to the US Postal Facility and either discontinue the B20 route or shorten it. If there generous they might even extend the B6 further to the Gateway Center Mall or into Queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted February 12, 2013 Share #63 Posted February 12, 2013 I still think the B84 should've served Ozone Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 12, 2013 Share #64 Posted February 12, 2013 I'm having trouble trying to make this route useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Posted February 12, 2013 Share #65 Posted February 12, 2013 I'm having trouble trying to make this route useful I think it will end up being an experiment and study on how to modify the B6, B20, B82 and/or B83 in the Spring Creek area. Or it could turn into what the Q64 and B42 are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 13, 2013 Share #66 Posted February 13, 2013 I think it will end up being an experiment and study on how to modify the B6, B20, B82 and/or B83 in the Spring Creek area. Or it could turn into what the Q64 and B42 are. I'm thinking about extending it westward to Mother Gaston Blvd then sending it up to the Chauncey St station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted February 13, 2013 Share #67 Posted February 13, 2013 I'm still not sure what you are getting at by saying they will fuse the B84 into the B83. Anyway I think the main purpose of both the B83 extension and the B84 is to provide local service to Gateway. The transfer to the IRT is secondary. I don't think anyone who uses the B83 to access Gateway would switch to the B84 because of the 30 minute headway even if the ride is shorter. I always felt why is the the only major mass transit agency in America that does not allow 6-month or 1 year trials. 30 minute is honestly too high a headway in middle of a week. At least run it (just like the planned "M12" far west side route)every 20 minutes during peak hour weekdays and part of Saturdays. And then every 30 minutes weekday evening, most of Saturdays and all day Sundays. I do agree with B35. With this new "B84" it's possible now the could slightly reduce "B6" service between New Lots Station and Rockaway Parkway. Other than driving by the Belt Parkway in that area to/from SW Brooklyn, it been several years since I rode the Spring Creek/East NY bus routes so I wont comment on the new developments in that area. In my view, there still should be a bus that runs between the Canarise area and Spring Creek Gateway Mall. I had proposed a "B81" supplemental route to the "B82" to run between Kings Highway station in midwood and Gateway. Now I just run it to say either Rockaway Parkway station or say the Padergaent Ave area. Don't be surprised if they also extend the Q7 route from the Euclid Avenue Subway Station to the IRT New Lots Avenue Subway Station via former Q21A routing along Euclid Avenue,Linden Blvd. and Ashford Street. Between the Q7 and new B84 serving Ashford Street will ensure that they'll later reroute the B6, B20 and B83. They could also later extend the B84 from the New Lots Avenue Subway Station to the Broadway Junction so that the B83 could be rerouted straight along Pennslyvania Avenue and terminate at Pennslyvania Avenue/Seaview Avenue and than send the B82 to the Gateway Center Mall instead of the B83 route. The B6 could take over the eastern end of the B20 east of Ashford Street up to the US Postal Facility and either discontinue the B20 route or shorten it. If there generous they might even extend the B6 further to the Gateway Center Mall or into Queens. Why extend the B6 into Southwest Queens? Have you been on it? I have a friend that fixes my computer sometimes that lives off the B6 in East Flatbush (Brooklyn Ave/Glenwood stop)and it's SRO even on Sundays. Plus bunching problems. Leave the "B6" alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share #68 Posted February 13, 2013 I always felt why is the the only major mass transit agency in America that does not allow 6-month or 1 year trials. 30 minute is honestly too high a headway in middle of a week. At least run it (just like the planned "M12" far west side route)every 20 minutes during peak hour weekdays and part of Saturdays. And then every 30 minutes weekday evening, most of Saturdays and all day Sundays. I do agree with B35. With this new "B84" it's possible now the could slightly reduce "B6" service between New Lots Station and Rockaway Parkway. Other than driving by the Belt Parkway in that area to/from SW Brooklyn, it been several years since I rode the Spring Creek/East NY bus routes so I wont comment on the new developments in that area. In my view, there still should be a bus that runs between the Canarsie area and Spring Creek Gateway Mall. I had proposed a "B81" supplemental route to the "B82" to run between Kings Highway station in Midwood and Gateway. Now I just run it to say either Rockaway Parkway station or say the Padergaent Ave area. Interesting. Maybe a route from Kings Plaza to Gateway could be possibility as well? http://goo.gl/maps/zQKkn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 13, 2013 Share #69 Posted February 13, 2013 I'm thinking about extending it westward to Mother Gaston Blvd then sending it up to the Chauncey St station Checkmate & I were discussing possible routings an extended "84" could take to Brookdale hospital via Brownsville...... (after I originally brought up the idea of extending the "84" to the Van Dyke houses [Dumont/Powell]) The area around the Van Dyke/Brownsville/Tilden houses shouldn't only be served by the B14, and I think they would welcome direct service along commercial Penn. av & Gateway mall itself..... Chauncey st is already served by the B60 (via a short walk) in that part of Brownsville, and I can't see anyone along Penn. or w/i spring creek taking buses via that routing to the .... They would simply make their way to the 83's to B'way junction for the .... .....I do agree with B35. With this new "B84" it's possible now the could slightly reduce "B6" service between New Lots Station and Rockaway Parkway. Other than driving by the Belt Parkway in that area to/from SW Brooklyn, it been several years since I rode the Spring Creek/East NY bus routes so I wont comment on the new developments in that area. In my view, there still should be a bus that runs between the Canarise area and Spring Creek Gateway Mall. I had proposed a "B81" supplemental route to the "B82" to run between Kings Highway station in midwood and Gateway. Now I just run it to say either Rockaway Parkway station or say the Padergaent Ave area. Why extend the B6 into Southwest Queens? Have you been on it? I have a friend that fixes my computer sometimes that lives off the B6 in East Flatbush (Brooklyn Ave/Glenwood stop)and it's SRO even on Sundays. Plus bunching problems. Leave the "B6" alone. * To be fair, you're agreeing w/ BrooklynBus' position..... I don't think anything's gonna happen to the B6... * My position is that they're gonna try to find a way in the future to phase out the "84" by altering B83's to move them off shore/belt pkwy ....... I don't see them extending B6's anywhere (not to the mail facility, not to gateway mall, and especially not to Queens) because they would have to cut too much service on that route east of Rockaway pkwy - for the simple sake for the "B84" to service the areas that it would (with decreased headways).... I wouldn't even view that as a "robbing peter to pay paul" scenario, but more a "cutting off their nose to spite their face".... Meaning, removing B6's from serving the to extend it eastward just to attempt to boost usage on a new/unestablished route, is way too excessive a solution, even for the MTA...... That's a lose-lose situation as far as I can see it.... B6 carries too many pax. b/w Rockaway Pkwy & New Lots ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusOperator3319 Posted February 13, 2013 Share #70 Posted February 13, 2013 Maybe they could interline with the B6? Hello Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding someone is using their head being that its every half hour which means 2 Buses every hour definitely doable and same goes with the B83 which can also be interlined with the B84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted February 13, 2013 Share #71 Posted February 13, 2013 When it comes to planning things out the is so good at planning a route that is short and has many alternatives. They should be trying to fix service in Staten Island, Astoria/ Long Island City and Eastern Queens. I call the B84 a FAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 13, 2013 Share #72 Posted February 13, 2013 When it comes to planning things out the is so good at planning a route that is short and has many alternatives. They should be trying to fix service in Staten Island, Astoria/ Long Island City and Eastern Queens. I call the B84 a FAIL They should be trying to fix service period, not looking to subtract by addition.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 14, 2013 Share #73 Posted February 14, 2013 I always felt why is the the only major mass transit agency in America that does not allow 6-month or 1 year trials. 30 minute is honestly too high a headway in middle of a week. At least run it (just like the planned "M12" far west side route)every 20 minutes during peak hour weekdays and part of Saturdays. And then every 30 minutes weekday evening, most of Saturdays and all day Sundays. I do agree with B35. With this new "B84" it's possible now the could slightly reduce "B6" service between New Lots Station and Rockaway Parkway. Other than driving by the Belt Parkway in that area to/from SW Brooklyn, it been several years since I rode the Spring Creek/East NY bus routes so I wont comment on the new developments in that area. In my view, there still should be a bus that runs between the Canarise area and Spring Creek Gateway Mall. I had proposed a "B81" supplemental route to the "B82" to run between Kings Highway station in midwood and Gateway. Now I just run it to say either Rockaway Parkway station or say the Padergaent Ave area. Why extend the B6 into Southwest Queens? Have you been on it? I have a friend that fixes my computer sometimes that lives off the B6 in East Flatbush (Brooklyn Ave/Glenwood stop)and it's SRO even on Sundays. Plus bunching problems. Leave the "B6" alone. Want to link canarsie to gateway instafix extend B13 via belt to canarsie done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share #74 Posted February 15, 2013 Want to link canarsie to gateway instafix extend B13 via belt to canarsie done. You might as well just extend the B42 or B82 then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted February 15, 2013 Share #75 Posted February 15, 2013 You might as well just extend the B42 or B82 then..... B42 has the purpose to link to the and err It may benefit the B13 more than the B42 as those who may work at the postal facility will have a quick 2 seat ride from where they are to their work. B42 can do it but it already has high ridership B13 has medium ridership so I'd give it to B13 to improve it's ridership. B42 already does well enough. Besides Belt traffic eliminated my earlier B42 via belt idea and killed it. That is mostly due to B42's purpose and use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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