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North Shore Line

S90 Busway vs S44 Select Bus Service

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Why should the S90 receive a special busway and Select Bus Service when it is out of reach to most houses? The S90 will require brand new infrastructure and special "right-of-way" to be built and have old, decrepit viaducts and stations be entirely rebuilt from the ground up. The costs to reactive the old north shore line into a busway will rival other major projects that the MTA may want to get started across the city. Castleton Depot will also have to be reconfigured to handle it's own new fleet of Select Bus Service buses.

 

The S44 covers more area, as well as Richmond Avenue, the Staten Island Mall and soon Target @ SI Mall and in the future, the NY Wheel and mall. The line that would be better for Staten Island is a S44 Select Bus Service route. The line could have a shared fleet with the S79 Select Bus Service and run the same hours as it currently does (4am-1230am). The S59 parallels both the the S79 and S44 for most of the route and serves as the "local".

 

-The S59 "local" would be re-routed to run along the entire current S44 local routing to/from St. George via Morningstar Road and Walker Street.

 

-The S44 Select Bus Service operates between St. George and Staten Island Mall via Port Richmond Avenue.

 

-The S44A Select Bus Service operates between St. George and Teleport via Walker Street and South Avenue.

 

-Service would be adequately reduced on nearby routes to make way for the new S44 Select Bus Service.

 

-On-board fare collection similar to the S79 Select Bus Service until it grows more popular.

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What the hell are you talking about ?

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Once I saw the word "Busway" in the title, I thought this was one of qjtransitmaster's ridiculous ideas lol

 

Yeah none of this makes any sense at all...

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Um...

 

1. There is an SI Bus Proposals thread.

2. Cary and Henderson Avenues can't handle bus lanes in a millon years...

3. This is ridiculously random. 

 

:Lock:

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Damn, give this guy a break.

 

What he is referring to can be viewed in the map below.

 

StatenIslandBRTNew.jpg

  • Upvote 8

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As you can see, under the plan the "new" S59 would be covering most of the "old" S44 route.

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As you can see, under the plan the "new" S59 would be covering most of the "old" S44 route.

 

I knew what he was talking about, but he provided little background info on the subject...

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Once I saw the word "Busway" in the title, I thought this was one of qjtransitmaster's ridiculous ideas lol

Yeah none of this makes any sense at all...

Funny those busway ideas originated from the MTA not me. The SI busway did you forget? Besides the only place I would put busways on is I-278 in brooklyn and LIE and HOV to van wyck to speed up travel time on express buses. Many of the so called LTD connectors I propose DO NOT need busways!!

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Damn, give this guy a break.

 

What he is referring to can be viewed in the map below.

 

StatenIslandBRTNew.jpg

 

Thank you.

  • Upvote 2

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I knew what he was talking about, but he provided little background info on the subject...

 How does ...........

 

Um...

 

1. There is an SI Bus Proposals thread.

2. Cary and Henderson Avenues can't handle bus lanes in a millon years...

3. This is ridiculously random. 

 

:Lock:

Go to ............

 

I knew what he was talking about, but he provided little background info on the subject...

Edited by Q23 Central Terminal
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Oh, is it that thing that would replace the old North Shore SIR?

 

Yup. This was proposed some years ago or so. I honestly hope they consider it because that S40/S90 really needs it. That line gets SLAMMED!

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I think this should've just been put in the North Shore Rail Line thread, but whatever......

 

Why should the S90 receive a special busway and Select Bus Service when it is out of reach to most houses? The S90 will require brand new infrastructure and special "right-of-way" to be built and have old, decrepit viaducts and stations be entirely rebuilt from the ground up. The costs to reactive the old north shore line into a busway will rival other major projects that the MTA may want to get started across the city. Castleton Depot will also have to be reconfigured to handle it's own new fleet of Select Bus Service buses.

 

The S44 covers more area, as well as Richmond Avenue, the Staten Island Mall and soon Target @ SI Mall and in the future, the NY Wheel and mall. The line that would be better for Staten Island is a S44 Select Bus Service route. The line could have a shared fleet with the S79 Select Bus Service and run the same hours as it currently does (4am-1230am). The S59 parallels both the the S79 and S44 for most of the route and serves as the "local".

 

-The S59 "local" would be re-routed to run along the entire current S44 local routing to/from St. George via Morningstar Road and Walker Street.

 

-The S44 Select Bus Service operates between St. George and Staten Island Mall via Port Richmond Avenue.

 

-The S44A Select Bus Service operates between St. George and Teleport via Walker Street and South Avenue.

 

-Service would be adequately reduced on nearby routes to make way for the new S44 Select Bus Service.

 

-On-board fare collection similar to the S79 Select Bus Service until it grows more popular

 

For starters, if they're not using artics, all you need to do is put the SBS wrap on the buses and you're done. You don't need a special fleet.

 

Second of all, sending the S59 to St. George would make it ridiculously long (and you can forget about sending buses to Tottenville). Not to mention that Cary/Post Avenue don't need double the amount of service they currently get (even if you were to reduce service on the surrounding routes)

 

Alright, well you addressed the issue of Port Richmond Avenue vs. Morningstar Road, so I'll give you credit on that (I guess the S44 would just make local stops between Walker Street & Forest Avenue, which kind of defeats the point of SBS, but it's only like two stops anyway)

 

Limited service isn't direly needed along Richmond Avenue. The only reason they made the S89 a limited was because they figured it would be pointless to have 3 locals, and it might sound better if it's this limited-stop route to Bayonne, but in reality, you only save a few minutes, compared to making it local.

 

The S46 & S48 need better limited-stop service before the S44 does (and this is coming from somebody who lives along the S44). Really, the only area where I'd really say the S44 loses time is having to deal with the traffic lights on Port Richmond Avenue, and occasionally a bottleneck by Richmond & Forest. (Which I don't think a limited would really solve).

 

Cary and Henderson Avenues can't handle bus lanes in a millon years...

 

Well, they hardly get any traffic anyway, so they wouldn't be needed either way (especially on Henderson). At worst, you might have a small backup by on of the traffic lights on Cary, but that's it.

 

Yup. This was proposed some years ago or so. I honestly hope they consider it because that S40/S90 really needs it. That line gets SLAMMED!

 

That proposal would involve eliminating the S40/90, which means people on the western end of the route would be SOL (because Richmond Terrace is further from the line, and on top of that, they'd eliminate the S46/96 west of Morningstar, so the entire northern portion of Elm Park/Mariners' Harbor would have no bus service at all).

 

Me, I just want a heavy rail over there. None of this "busway" or "light rail" nonsense.

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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I knew what he was talking about, but he provided little background info on the subject...

Ok, so instead of you wanna-be moderators throwing around the "lock" icon or talking about how ridiculous the subject is with little information, wouldn't it be more useful to actually give input from what you know of the S90 Busway talks instead? This goes for rest of you clowns who are quick to shut someone down just to increase your post count, etc.. smh

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The (MTA) needs to be more color-blind friendly... that 53/59 coloring and the 54/57 coloring is throwing me off.

 

 

Me, I just want a heavy rail over there. None of this "busway" or "light rail" nonsense.

 

There are various reasons why North Shore is less than optimal for a rail line, starting with the fact that half the catchment area of the ROW is in the water. I don't know what the local reaction to a bus highway in their backyards would be, though.

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Why should the S90 receive a special busway and Select Bus Service when it is out of reach to most houses? The S90 will require brand new infrastructure and special "right-of-way" to be built and have old, decrepit viaducts and stations be entirely rebuilt from the ground up. The costs to reactive the old north shore line into a busway will rival other major projects that the MTA may want to get started across the city. Castleton Depot will also have to be reconfigured to handle it's own new fleet of Select Bus Service buses.

 

The S44 covers more area, as well as Richmond Avenue, the Staten Island Mall and soon Target @ SI Mall and in the future, the NY Wheel and mall. The line that would be better for Staten Island is a S44 Select Bus Service route. The line could have a shared fleet with the S79 Select Bus Service and run the same hours as it currently does (4am-1230am). The S59 parallels both the the S79 and S44 for most of the route and serves as the "local".

 

-The S59 "local" would be re-routed to run along the entire current S44 local routing to/from St. George via Morningstar Road and Walker Street.

 

-The S44 Select Bus Service operates between St. George and Staten Island Mall via Port Richmond Avenue.

 

-The S44A Select Bus Service operates between St. George and Teleport via Walker Street and South Avenue.

 

-Service would be adequately reduced on nearby routes to make way for the new S44 Select Bus Service.

 

-On-board fare collection similar to the S79 Select Bus Service until it grows more popular.

Now that the "dispute" has cleared, I'll share my stance on the subject.

 

As mentioned likely the service will start with using the existing fleet. Perhaps later if feasible the S90 will be upgaded to artics. Again that depends on many factors, including amount of ridership and the availability of a equipped depot.

 

In any event should the S90 become a reality a reduced local S40 should still be offered.

 

Regarding your plans I'm not agreeing with the S59. Can't service just as easily be achieved with a supplementary local S44? As for the S44 SBS I don't see the S44A working out. Overall the S46 trips aren't too bad.

 

Either way, thanks for sharing your ideas.

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There are various reasons why North Shore is less than optimal for a rail line, starting with the fact that half the catchment area of the ROW is in the water. I don't know what the local reaction to a bus highway in their backyards would be, though.

 

The portion of the North Shore the line would serve isn't exactly NIMBY Central, so that wouldn't be an issue.

 

As for the catchment area, well, there would be some people taking feeder buses and driving to the stations. Also consider that the (M) between Myrtle/Broadway & Metropolitan Avenue gets about 14,000 riders in 5 miles, so the ridership would be comparable to that. (And that's just as a shuttle to St. George).

 

In the long-term, ideally there would be a subway tunnel built so both SIR lines can go to Manhattan. Ridership would skyrocket (even with a limited catchment area), and the returns in terms of real estate investment would be huge. Of course, by long-term, I mean, way out there, but there's always hope. ;)

 

Considering the ROW is already there, I don't see how the costs would be that much higher for rail rather than a busway.

 

If there weren't so many hills on the eastern portion of Castleton Avenue (and NIMBYs in some portions), I'd probably say to build an elevated structure on Castleton once you get east of Nicholas. But unfortunately, that's not the case.

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That proposal would involve eliminating the S40/90, which means people on the western end of the route would be SOL (because Richmond Terrace is further from the line, and on top of that, they'd eliminate the S46/96 west of Morningstar, so the entire northern portion of Elm Park/Mariners' Harbor would have no bus service at all).

 

 

I know that, but you do have a point about folks at the western end of the route being SOL.

 

Remember that this is an early proposal, pretty sure there would be some changes.

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Considering the ROW is already there, I don't see how the costs would be that much higher for rail rather than a busway.

 

If I remember correctly, the study included extending "light rail" (which is a very loosely defined term) through the ROW to the Teleport, which accounted for most of the costs.

 

I'm not a native of the borough, but is the Teleport really that important?

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If I remember correctly, the study included extending "light rail" (which is a very loosely defined term) through the ROW to the Teleport, which accounted for most of the costs.

 

I'm not a native of the borough, but is the Teleport really that important?

Simply put, the Teleport is perhaps the most interesting thing on that side of the island.

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Yup. This was proposed some years ago or so. I honestly hope they consider it because that S40/S90 really needs it. That line gets SLAMMED!

err is the S40 that slammed? to the point LTD service needs an upgrade?

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Only at Rush Hour. Same with the 46/96 and 48/98.

 

I wouldn't say only at the rush, every now and then when I took the S40 back to the ferry around 9pm, we did get a pretty packed load with standees.

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If I remember correctly, the study included extending "light rail" (which is a very loosely defined term) through the ROW to the Teleport, which accounted for most of the costs.

 

I'm not a native of the borough, but is the Teleport really that important?

 

Oh, don't even get me started on that. ;)

 

The Teleport is some little office park that they're trying to hype up. They have a nursing school, a middle school, a few offices, and that's about it. Much of the cost of the project is because they would have to lay down new tracks along South Avenue (and get the light rail trains out of the trench and onto South Avenue in the first place), all to serve a little office park. Of course, when I pointed it out at one of the meetings, they just gave me some nonsense. <_<

 

So in other words, if we want to talk about saving money, let's start by not making it so that the new transit line (whether it's a busway, light rail or heavy rail) has to serve the Teleport. They shouldn't have picked a mode based on their ability to serve the Teleport.

 

Only at Rush Hour. Same with the 46/96 and 48/98.

 

I hope you're not implying that the S46/96 & S48/98 only get packed at rush hour. I've been on plenty of packed buses off-peak. (On the weekends, it's mostly the S48 that gets packed, but during the week, both of them can get packed at times).

 

The S40 off-peak, well it depends on the specific time. You definitely have standees on many off-peak buses. Only during say, the evening would you really have a packed bus (with the runs where it's just an S40 instead of an S40 & S90).

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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