Parents Push to Quiet Roar From Trains Near Queens School

[bobtehpanda]

You mean, excruciatingly little? Okay.

 

They spend a lot on educational administration (my alma mater alone has added at least two new VP positions during the past four years of budget stress, and fired a teacher to pay for it.)

 

They spend an eh amount on capital construction for education, and classes and afterschool programs are still being cut (although this is slowly being turned around).

[realizm]

I have seen for myself, as an IT consultant, what really goes on within NYDOE administration as my former client which I refuse to provide services to at this point. I can tell you right now the level of bullshit is high. Its apparent by the current scandals in the schools that are currently being exposed by the media. What they are saying in regards to the misallocating and theft of agency funds within the schools and administrative offices is all troubling fact. Google it, its all in plain sight.

[MHV9218]

What is with all the cowardly downvotes? You people seem to be unsure how to use the downvote button. If you disagree, say so, but it's a known fact the city spends very little on education in proportion to how much it should. 

 

Many of the principals and APs are making almost, if not already, triple digits while the teachers slave for pennies, literally. Its actually the opposite, too much of our tax dollars are going into these ridiculously fat salaries with administration. I'll stop here.

 

I mean, if some principals are making more than they should, that doesn't detract at all from my point that the city spends way too little on education. Teacher salaries are appalling, and they always have been. We should be pouring money in our education system and our teachers, and we'll be saving it in policing and prison funds in the long run...

 

They spend a lot on educational administration (my alma mater alone has added at least two new VP positions during the past four years of budget stress, and fired a teacher to pay for it.)

They spend an eh amount on capital construction for education, and classes and afterschool programs are still being cut (although this is slowly being turned around).

 

The city spends much, much less than it should on its schools as a whole. A couple anecdotal examples do not a good argument make. 

[realizm]

I mean, if some principals are making more than they should, that doesn't detract at all from my point that the city spends way too little on education. Teacher salaries are appalling, and they always have been. We should be pouring money in our education system and our teachers, and we'll be saving it in policing and prison funds in the long run...

Indeed always for proper funding into education, however yhe problem is the misallocation and misuse of funds. The same thing actually happens in the CUNY colleges. I can tell you stories that will piss you off.

[realizm]

What is with all the cowardly downvotes? You people seem to be unsure how to use the downvote button. If you disagree, say so, but it's a known fact the city spends very little on education in proportion to how much it should.

I will admit that was uncalled for, your posts was not meant as personal attacks. I for one, only downvote if I feel like I am being provoked. That would be the only reason.

[bobtehpanda]

The city spends much, much less than it should on its schools as a whole. A couple anecdotal examples do not a good argument make. 

 

From Front Page Magazine:

 

 

Bloomberg tried to become the education mayor and school spending is now devouring almost 20 percent of the New York City budget. But that’s a small bite compared to the pension costs that are going to kick in down the road. Worse still it appears that there aren’t any real educational results to show for it that can’t be put down to promotion and number juggling.

 

Education is now the city’s single biggest area of expenditure in its ten year capital plan. Ten times more than its criminal justice system. Three times more than bridges and highways. Twenty times more than its hospitals. Forty times more than its firefighters. Education spending is eating the future of New York City alive.

 

Salaries and wages have tripled since 2001 while the number of employees has dropped.

 

Keep in mind that education is now the biggest portion of a budget that has more or less been on the rise due to the marked improvement in the City's fortunes. The City has a habit of not spending money too wisely; think about the CityTime fiasco. Heck, schools across the city are being encouraged to buy smartboards (which are generally still very buggy and suffer from lag issues), when at the same time most schools have absolutely dreadful internet connection speeds and severe restrictions on internet use. Want to show your kids Khan Academy? Nope, Youtube is banned.

 

Most teachers are fine with chalk, and actually prefer chalk to dry erase and smartboards. But the Bloomberg administration has always been about the flashy upgrades instead of the nuts and bolts of what actually matters.

[MHV9218]

From Front Page Magazine:

 

 

Keep in mind that education is now the biggest portion of a budget that has more or less been on the rise due to the marked improvement in the City's fortunes. The City has a habit of not spending money too wisely; think about the CityTime fiasco. Heck, schools across the city are being encouraged to buy smartboards (which are generally still very buggy and suffer from lag issues), when at the same time most schools have absolutely dreadful internet connection speeds and severe restrictions on internet use. Want to show your kids Khan Academy? Nope, Youtube is banned.

 

Most teachers are fine with chalk, and actually prefer chalk to dry erase and smartboards. But the Bloomberg administration has always been about the flashy upgrades instead of the nuts and bolts of what actually matters.

 

Front Page Magazine is a complete joke, and quoting from it ensures everything is false. It makes sense that they'd be against education funding, given the IQ of their readers and writers seems to have never passed fifth grade levels. Quoting an opinion piece as fact is a big mistake--not to mention, their statistics are pointless. Education SHOULD be the biggest expenditure in the ten year capital plan. Salaries and wages SHOULD go up. That article is nonsense.

 

Again, anecdotal examples like smartboards and other technology are not evidence. More money should be spent on education, and if some of that goes to technology, so be it. 

[realizm]

Front Page Magazine is a complete joke, and quoting from it ensures everything is false. It makes sense that they'd be against education funding, given the IQ of their readers and writers seems to have never passed fifth grade levels. Quoting an opinion piece as fact is a big mistake; not the mention, their statistics are pointless. Education SHOULD be the biggest expenditure in its ten year capital plan. Salaries and wages SHOULD go up. That article is nonsense.

 

Again, anecdotal examples like smartboards and other technology are not evidence. More money should be spent on education, and if some of that goes to technology, so be it. 

 

What I am trying to explain is that its the way that the money thats being managed that is causing the problem. Why in the world as an example as a computer tech am I still deploying Win XP images in the schools? Something is wrong here.

 

Its not money, trust me. Its all there.

[bobtehpanda]

Front Page Magazine is a complete joke, and quoting from it ensures everything is false. It makes sense that they'd be against education funding, given the IQ of their readers and writers seems to have never passed fifth grade levels. Quoting an opinion piece as fact is a big mistake--not to mention, their statistics are pointless. Education SHOULD be the biggest expenditure in the ten year capital plan. Salaries and wages SHOULD go up. That article is nonsense.

 

Again, anecdotal examples like smartboards and other technology are not evidence. More money should be spent on education, and if some of that goes to technology, so be it. 

 

The answer is not "throw money at the problem until it goes away." If you had clicked through the links, you'd see that they are quoting actual budget numbers from the City itself, and provide a direct link to the annual budget published by the City of New York. Dismissing statistics because they got printed in a paper you don't like is counterproductive; official statistics are official statistics.

 

If you want the news from more liberal sources, here you go.

Huffington Post: New York Per-Student Spending Higher Than Anywhere Else In U.S., Census Bureau Finds

 

Atlantic Cities: American Schools vs. the World: Expensive, Unequal, Bad at Math

 

The point I'm trying to make is not that school spending needs to be slashed, but that more spending is not the solution to everything. There are good and bad ways to manage the money, and the City is doing much less than it could be doing with their given resources. Money =/= results.

 

I also don't know where you get your shtick about 'anecdotal evidence'. It is true that nearly all schools have cut afterschool programs in the wake of the recession. It is also true that nearly all schools have extremely slow internet connections. It is also true that all school internet is heavily restricted to the point where its utility as a teaching tool is limited, because NYCDOE bans access to anything that might have an ounce of non-educational entertainment. Education spending is not some sort of extension of Reaganomics where 'a rising tide lifts all boats'.

[Roadcruiser1]

I now know the reason why I am terrible at Math.

 

America's education system is lousy. I have friends from other nations that immigrate here, and the stuff we learn in college was already given to them in high school. Talk about lousy..........

[Kamen Rider]

Thing is, how much of that is the teachers and how much is the kids?

 

Something's are just learned better in other ways. How many younger people in the science community owe thier presence there more to Bill Nye and Ms. Frizzle than someone in a class room itself.

 

As for the particular school in question, I kinda can't help but say, "your school is next to an elevated subway line, what do you expect it to sound like? Kittens playing with string?"

[MHV9218]

The answer is not "throw money at the problem until it goes away." If you had clicked through the links, you'd see that they are quoting actual budget numbers from the City itself, and provide a direct link to the annual budget published by the City of New York. Dismissing statistics because they got printed in a paper you don't like is counterproductive; official statistics are official statistics.

 

If you want the news from more liberal sources, here you go.

Huffington Post: New York Per-Student Spending Higher Than Anywhere Else In U.S., Census Bureau Finds

 

Atlantic Cities: American Schools vs. the World: Expensive, Unequal, Bad at Math

 

The point I'm trying to make is not that school spending needs to be slashed, but that more spending is not the solution to everything. There are good and bad ways to manage the money, and the City is doing much less than it could be doing with their given resources. Money =/= results.

 

I also don't know where you get your shtick about 'anecdotal evidence'. It is true that nearly all schools have cut afterschool programs in the wake of the recession. It is also true that nearly all schools have extremely slow internet connections. It is also true that all school internet is heavily restricted to the point where its utility as a teaching tool is limited, because NYCDOE bans access to anything that might have an ounce of non-educational entertainment. Education spending is not some sort of extension of Reaganomics where 'a rising tide lifts all boats'.

 

I'm glad to see a couple more reputable sources. It's not an issue of left vs. right, it's an issue of factual vs. not. Front Page is a collection of generally racist misinformation that contributes nothing to anything.

 

Now, we're finally getting somewhere. I agree with you that the school budget is not spent as well it should be. Now, we are looking at elevated numbers given the fact that we're currently in a period where we're trying to 'catch up' for less than stellar test numbers in the past, and also (crucially), a large amount of money spent doesn't take away from the fact that our teachers are underpaid. The solution is not a blanket "more money," but a large part of the solution is more money specifically for teacher salaries. If our teachers slave away for pennies, how can you justify taking the profession? Teaching needs to be an economically sensible position, and the fact that is barely is means we have fewer good teachers than we should. Look at all the school districts in cushy suburbs vastly outperforming city schools: they pay their teachers inside perfect new buildings. The DOE wastes money, yes, but it is still generally underfunded considering how badly we need more schools, new facilities, and higher teacher salaries.

[realizm]

Link: http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2013/49/astoriasubway_tl_2013_12_06_q.html

"City Councilman Peter Vallone Jr. (D-Astoria) liked what he heard and so will pupils at an elementary school and untold numbers of passers-by at a subway stop in Astoria, where subway trains have been creating a deafening din for years.

What Vallone got was word from the Metropolitan Transportation Authority that it plans to install new technology on cars of the N and Q trains, the air brakes of which have signaled their arrival at the Ditmars Boulevard stop with deafening blasts.

The noise is produced when the conductor applies the emergency brake in order to walk to the other end of the platform to take the train in the opposite direction.

Vallone has been leading the fight against the disruptive noise since 2012, when the noise got even worse due to the fact that more cars were equipped with air brakes.

Last year, Vallone sent a letter to MTA Chairman Thomas Prendergast demanding that something be done about the disruptive noise, which on a scientific noise measurement is as loud as a jackhammer.

The MTA responded by sending its Car Equipment Division crew to inspect all track and subway equipment on the lines. The study discovered that the noise produced by the air brakes increases the area’s normal or ambient sound level by more than 10 decibels.

The good news arrived Monday when the MTA advised Vallone that it will begin installing what it calls “noise dampers” on all the cars on the N and Q lines. This technology will significantly reduce the noise level produced by the air brakes at the Ditmars Boulevard stop without affecting the ability of the train crew to hear the brakes being applied. The dampers will be added as the equipment comes in and will be completed within the next six months.

“The deafening noise has been scaring little kids, startling our senior citizens and damaging our ear drums for too long,” Vallone said."

[Fresh Pond]

so many things wrong with that statement...

[bobtehpanda]

I'm glad to see a couple more reputable sources. It's not an issue of left vs. right, it's an issue of factual vs. not. Front Page is a collection of generally racist misinformation that contributes nothing to anything.

 

Now, we're finally getting somewhere. I agree with you that the school budget is not spent as well it should be. Now, we are looking at elevated numbers given the fact that we're currently in a period where we're trying to 'catch up' for less than stellar test numbers in the past, and also (crucially), a large amount of money spent doesn't take away from the fact that our teachers are underpaid. The solution is not a blanket "more money," but a large part of the solution is more money specifically for teacher salaries. If our teachers slave away for pennies, how can you justify taking the profession? Teaching needs to be an economically sensible position, and the fact that is barely is means we have fewer good teachers than we should. Look at all the school districts in cushy suburbs vastly outperforming city schools: they pay their teachers inside perfect new buildings. The DOE wastes money, yes, but it is still generally underfunded considering how badly we need more schools, new facilities, and higher teacher salaries.

 

Attracting good teachers is not necessarily always about money; I know several teachers who turned down positions in Westchester that could easily pay double their salaries here, or left high-paying jobs at Google or at banks, but decided to teach in the city's schools because it gave them a sense of purpose.

 

In countries that perform highly on international tests like the PISA, teachers are often cherry-picked from the best in the universities. The best-performing teachers are sent to the worst-performing schools so that everyone can have a leg up. Finland pays its teachers absolute crap, yet they perform exceptionally well because Finnish society gives very high moral standing to teachers. In this country, nothing is the parents' fault or the child's fault anymore; it's always the teacher. This is obviously a long-term cultural problem that we can't solve by raising salaries.

 

The other part of it is pensions. Teacher salaries are so low because pensions are so high; you can't exactly give teachers huge raises because that raises costs now, but promising teachers unfunded benefits only shows up in the ledger by the time politicians are out of office. This disproportionately harms younger teachers, because the benefits of retirees and older employees are generally untouched even if they become prohibitively expensive.

 

Schools need a lot of capital construction, because there is a shortage of seats in nearly every district (because no one really expected the present baby boom in New York). However, that will always be a problem, because finding suitable sites, acquiring property, building a school, etc. is very difficult and takes a very long time. You also have to balance maintenance needs (paint, pools, physical plants) with longer-term ambitions (removing asbestos, soundproofing, upgrading internet infrastructure, etc.)

 

That being said, DOE should be the one paying for school soundproofing, just like they pay for decontaminating school grounds and removing asbestos.

[alejr88]

Since when does the "conductor" puts on the E-brake when the train arrives at Ditmars?

[pjbr40]

I have to say the parents who brought the kids to this school are moron. Why they arguing to do something about the noise from the subway when they see it right there when they drop off the kids? After all these years that subway and school are next to each other, why all this complaints is coming in now not before? this whole things is about nitty picky. i went to hs that is right next to a highway and my parents i didn't complain about it. 

[N6 Limited]

Except that the school was built in 1907 and the Astoria line was built ten years later.

So, almost 100 years later, it's a problem?

[553 Bridgeton]

Hell in Gloucester City, NJ a little east of camden there are schools right under the approach into PHL Intl. the planes are so close you can see the turbo fans spinning, theres a senior home and a high school right under the path. I lived in the bronx right under the path of LGA planes and the 5 was right behind my house and never complained. Moral of this its nyc deal with it. If a kid is already dumb they wont get any smarter by fixing the noise issue. Hate to say it like that.

[GojiMet86]

So, almost 100 years later, it's a problem?

 

So what? Why deal with it? What's with this tough guy mentality? If it can dealt with now then do it.

[realizm]

Hell in Gloucester City, NJ a little east of camden there are schools right under the approach into PHL Intl. the planes are so close you can see the turbo fans spinning, theres a senior home and a high school right under the path. I lived in the bronx right under the path of LGA planes and the 5 was right behind my house and never complained. Moral of this its nyc deal with it. If a kid is already dumb they wont get any smarter by fixing the noise issue. Hate to say it like that.

 

I agree. I mean I can only imagine how myself as a straphanger and a taxpayer I would have to pay for this. Meanwhile my lines that I heavily commute on to get to work and night school continues to crumble. 

[Quill Depot]

These parents sound like they're from Westchester. I from personal experience, kids easily adapt. My fourth grade classroom sat on the corner of two of the busiest streets in my town, with the constant roar of cars and honks of trucks.

[realizm]

These parents sound like they're from Westchester. I from personal experience, kids easily adapt. My fourth grade classroom sat on the corner of two of the busiest streets in my town, with the constant roar of cars and honks of trucks.

 

They need to take a hint from Alaska residents with children that have to go to school at times under almost 24 hour darkness and extreme temperatures. I dont hear them complain about inconveniences. Really if say I was a little booger in that school, well I'm chillin. I used to attend a school very close to the BMT West End Line and it never bothered me. Actually I found it calming to my nerves to hear the distraction.