Why is there so much weekend work?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Now that the has been using Fastrack, one would think that there would be less work on weekends, but looking at the updates, it shows that every line in the system has weekend work, save the SIR, the ,  and  and the Shuttle.  That begs the question of why is there still so much weekend work if they're also doing Fastrack, and rather frequently I would add?  I know that they claim that ridership is lower in the summertime, but I find that hard to believe, given the amount of people packing the streets in the city that I see.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Now that the has been using Fastrack, one would think that there would be less work on weekends, but looking at the updates, it shows that every line in the system has weekend work, save the SIR, the ,  and  and the Shuttle.  That begs the question of why is there still so much weekend work if they're also doing Fastrack, and rather frequently I would add?  I know that they claim that ridership is lower in the summertime, but I find that hard to believe, given the amount of people packing the streets in the city that I see.  

Most of the trackwork is outside the city, in the outerboroughs, for that reason you claimed. There is probably one or two in the city, not really paying attention to that because I don't frequent the subways (damn QBL local. The nerve that all 3 services were local. Oh well, more service besides the for me).

[S78 via Hylan]

That and ridership is generally lower on weekends than weekdays. Rember, Fastrack doesn't do everything. Since it's only done during the late night and sometimes the weekend though it helps.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That and ridership is generally lower on weekends than weekdays. Rember, Fastrack doesn't do everything. Since it's only done during the late night and sometimes the weekend though it helps.

True, but from what I've seen, I haven't seen a decrease in weekend work.  The has long acknowledged that weekend ridership continues to grow such that they cannot continue to do tons of work on weekends disrupting service, yet that seems to be exactly what they are doing. 

[QM1to6Ave]

Fastrak is mostly typical maintenance work, while a lot of the weekend work seems to be larger capital projects (CBTC, track replacement, etc), so that may be the cause. Seems like a lot of the Fastrak work was already done in the overnights, just in a less focused way on a single area of track at once

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Fastrak is mostly typical maintenance work, while a lot of the weekend work seems to be larger capital projects (CBTC, track replacement, etc), so that may be the cause. Seems like a lot of the Fastrak work was already done in the overnights, just in a less focused way on a single area of track at once

It seems like they could kill two birds with one stone though... I mean after all, the whole point of Fastrack (at least from my understanding) was to lessen the amount and frequency of weekend work.  If that isn't being accomplished, then I would argue that the has failed on what in my mind was a promise (obviously an indirect one) from them to have less disruptions during the weekends.  I personally avoid using the subway on weekends unless necessary from this reason and use the local bus in the city or just walk if I can.

[+Young+]

Fastrak is mostly typical maintenance work, while a lot of the weekend work seems to be larger capital projects (CBTC, track replacement, etc), so that may be the cause. Seems like a lot of the Fastrak work was already done in the overnights, just in a less focused way on a single area of track at once

 

For some of my Transportation graduate classes @ NYU-Poly in Downtown Brooklyn, I remember doing a paper or two on Fastrack. I don't remember it 100%, however one of the big things I remember is that Fastrack is for preventive maintenance in order to avoid a problem in the future. Here is an example: I mentioned in my paper, and the photos from http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/fastrackSchedule2014.htm prove that track workers have been removing debris (or garbage) from the track bed in order to avoid having a fire; clearing drains so water or melted snow can run off in order to avoid having a flood; checking tracks more closely in order to avoid a derailment; etc.

 

Also, keep in mind that for Fastrack the sections are only shut-down for 7 hours, compared to the weekends they can easily shut the section down for 55 consecutive hours (or possibly longer like Memorial Day and Labor Day) so they have more time to do the major stuff, like replacing track switches which can move a train from one track to another, compared to just replacing one rail.

 

Another reason why is because, since there are less commuters, there are less trains running, which means more of a headway to work with. Here's an example: This weekend (July 5th and 6th) they are running the trains to Jamaica/179th Street in order to repair the relay and/or yard lead tracks from Continental Avenue to the Jamaica Yard. If the headway (the amount of time between 2 consecutive buses, trains, etc.) on the train is every 10 minutes (6:00, 6:10, 6:20, etc.) leaving Jamaica/179th Street, then they can have an train leave at 6:05, 6:15, 6:25, etc. in order to maintain the proper spacing between trains. During the week, especially rush hour, this is almost impossible since the trains run very frequently especially from a terminal.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

For some of my Transportation graduate classes @ NYU-Poly in Downtown Brooklyn, I remember doing a paper or two on Fastrack. I don't remember it 100%, however one of the big things I remember is that Fastrack is for preventive maintenance in order to avoid a problem in the future. Here is an example: I mentioned in my paper, and the photos from http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/fastrackSchedule2014.htm prove that track workers have been removing debris (or garbage) from the track bed in order to avoid having a fire; clearing drains so water or melted snow can run off in order to avoid having a flood; checking tracks more closely in order to avoid a derailment; etc.

 

Also, keep in mind that for Fastrack the sections are only shut-down for 7 hours, compared to the weekends they can easily shut the section down for 55 consecutive hours (or possibly longer like Memorial Day and Labor Day) so they have more time to do the major stuff, like replacing track switches which can move a train from one track to another, compared to just replacing one rail.

True, but Fastrack can go on for an entire week or more, so if you add up 7 hours per day during the week (Monday - Friday), plus the amount of manpower that they use during that time period, they still are able to achieve a significant amount of work, and certainly more than just the basic maintenance.  

[QM1to6Ave]

It seems like they could kill two birds with one stone though... I mean after all, the whole point of Fastrack (at least from my understanding) was to lessen the amount and frequency of weekend work.  If that isn't being accomplished, then I would argue that the has failed on what in my mind was a promise (obviously an indirect one) from them to have less disruptions during the weekends.  I personally avoid using the subway on weekends unless necessary from this reason and use the local bus in the city or just walk if I can.

 

Some of the NYCT employees on here have written that after you subtract the set up and clean up times from Fastrack, they only have a few hours to get basic maintenance work done. Sounds like major work overnight just isn't really possible. I've been using the subway less and less now that my work and schooling has me traveling late nights and weekends more than before. 

 

For some of my Transportation graduate classes @ NYU-Poly in Downtown Brooklyn, I remember doing a paper or two on Fastrack. I don't remember it 100%, however one of the big things I remember is that Fastrack is for preventive maintenance in order to avoid a problem in the future. Here is an example: I mentioned in my paper, and the photos from http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/fastrackSchedule2014.htm prove that track workers have been removing debris (or garbage) from the track bed in order to avoid having a fire; clearing drains so water or melted snow can run off in order to avoid having a flood; checking tracks more closely in order to avoid a derailment; etc.

 

Also, keep in mind that for Fastrack the sections are only shut-down for 7 hours, compared to the weekends they can easily shut the section down for 55 consecutive hours (or possibly longer like Memorial Day and Labor Day) so they have more time to do the major stuff, like replacing track switches which can move a train from one track to another, compared to just replacing one rail.

The MTA seems to be in love with Fastrack, so I guess it is here to stay one way or the other.

 

I will say that after the was shut down for Fastrack one week in Manhattan, when I went into the station the day after it was over, it was significantly brighter and cleaner. I think it keeps riders of each line happy when they see such dramatic improvements after a few nights. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Some of the NYCT employees on here have written that after you subtract the set up and clean up times from Fastrack, they only have a few hours to get basic maintenance work done. Sounds like major work overnight just isn't really possible. I've been using the subway less and less now that my work and schooling has me traveling late nights and weekends more than before. 

 

The MTA seems to be in love with Fastrack, so I guess it is here to stay one way or the other.

Exactly... They seem to have dubbed it a success, and they also paint a picture that portrays this image that so much is done when Fastrack takes place... Given the amount of manpower they use, I would hope that's the case.  I would be curious to see if their overhead costs have dropped any since the implementation of Fastrack (i.e. overtime).

[+Young+]

True, but Fastrack can go on for an entire week or more, so if you add up 7 hours per day during the week (Monday - Friday), plus the amount of manpower that they use during that time period, they still are able to achieve a significant amount of work, and certainly more than just the basic maintenance.  

 

I agree, but if you subtract the time needed to move the work trains into position, organize the crew, set-up, put the station agents into place, as described in post #9, there is only a few hours left, especially at the end when things must be ready for the AM rush hour.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree, but if you subtract the time needed to move the work trains into position, organize the crew, set-up, put the station agents into place, as described in post #9, there is only a few hours left, especially at the end when things must be ready for the AM rush hour.

So tell me what you studied during your report(s) on Fastrack? Did you analyze the costs associated with it and if it lessened the need for weekend work?

[bobtehpanda]

True, but Fastrack can go on for an entire week or more, so if you add up 7 hours per day during the week (Monday - Friday), plus the amount of manpower that they use during that time period, they still are able to achieve a significant amount of work, and certainly more than just the basic maintenance.  

 

The thing is, outside of cosmetic work (cleanup of debris, repairing tiles and paint, etc.) there isn't too much you can do within the few hour timespan that you're left with after everything is shut down and then prepped for the AM rush. So long as we need to do resignalling and replace rails, which need long, uninterrupted work periods, we will have weekend work (and given that the MTA has been busy trying to make up 30 years' worth of signal replacement, there's quite a while to go.)

 

We're actually fortunate that the New York track setup allows for easy reroutes where possible; other places with double track only usually just single track (DC) or completely shut down stretches of line at a time, 7 days a week (Chicago, London)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The thing is, outside of cosmetic work (cleanup of debris, repairing tiles and paint, etc.) there isn't too much you can do within the few hour timespan that you're left with after everything is shut down and then prepped for the AM rush. So long as we need to do resignalling and replace rails, which need long, uninterrupted work periods, we will have weekend work (and given that the MTA has been busy trying to make up 30 years' worth of signal replacement, there's quite a while to go.)

 

We're actually fortunate that the New York track setup allows for easy reroutes where possible; other places with double track only usually just single track (DC) or completely shut down stretches of line at a time, 7 days a week (Chicago, London)

You forgot falsification of signal work as well by you know who... 

[+Young+]

The thing is, outside of cosmetic work (cleanup of debris, repairing tiles and paint, etc.) there isn't too much you can do within the few hour timespan that you're left with after everything is shut down and then prepped for the AM rush. So long as we need to do resignalling and replace rails, which need long, uninterrupted work periods, we will have weekend work (and given that the MTA has been busy trying to make up 30 years' worth of signal replacement, there's quite a while to go.)

 

We're actually fortunate that the New York track setup allows for easy reroutes where possible; other places with double track only usually just single track (DC) or completely shut down stretches of line at a time, 7 days a week (Chicago, London)

 

You remind me of the line on the weekends! The only thing is, it is shut down for 2 days (55 hours) compared to 7 days.

 

So tell me what you studied during your report(s) on Fastrack? Did you analyze the costs associated with it and if it lessened the need for weekend work?

 

Fortunately, FASTRACK was just starting at the time in 2012, and it was during the Spring term, so I did 1/4 of my paper on Lexington Avenue ,  1/4 on 7th Avenue , 1/4 on Eighth Avenue and 1/4 on Sixth Avenue . Like I said, I don't remember it nor have it in front of me currently, however I just did a summary of each, presented the 'so-called' big facts and emphasized the facts or themes connected with each, like they had the 42nd Street Shuttle running when they did the IRT, they had extra personnel to help the commuters, etc. It did lessen the need for weekend work, but not by a lot, since, as stated earlier, major projects cannot be done within 5 hours. As far as the costs, I just emphasized that this will save the money in the long run by only running the G.O. for 7 hours and not 55 (or something similar).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You remind me of the line on the weekends! The only thing is, it is shut down for 2 days (55 hours) compared to 7 days.

 

 

Fortunately, FASTRACK was just starting at the time in 2012, and it was during the Spring term, so I did 1/4 of my paper on Lexington Avenue ,  1/4 on 7th Avenue , 1/4 on Eighth Avenue and 1/4 on Sixth Avenue . Like I said, I don't remember it nor have it in front of me currently, however I just did a summary of each, presented the 'so-called' big facts and emphasized the facts or themes connected with each, like they had the 42nd Street Shuttle running when they did the IRT, they had extra personnel to help the commuters, etc. It did lessen the need for weekend work, but not by a lot, since, as stated earlier, major projects cannot be done within 5 hours. As far as the costs, I just emphasized that this will save the money in the long run by only running the G.O. for 7 hours and not 55 (or something similar).

Yeah but my question is not so much about prevention but rather how much manpower is used (in terms of overtime, which they claimed they were cutting back on) for not even 7 hours worth of work.  If they're doing work on weekends also, why not just save all of that for the weekend, and take those guys and use them then and do everything in one shot?  I mean they give the impression that they "flood" the stations with workers when Fastrack occurs for just a few hours of actual work.

[+Young+]

Yeah but my question is not so much about prevention but rather how much manpower is used (in terms of overtime, which they claimed they were cutting back on) for not even 7 hours worth of work.  If they're doing work on weekends also, why not just save all of that for the weekend, and take those guys and use them then and do everything in one shot?  I mean they give the impression that they "flood" the stations with workers when Fastrack occurs for just a few hours of actual work.

 

I honestly don't recall...and I'm multi-tasking and working on something else online...sorry.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I honestly don't recall...and I'm multi-tasking and working on something else online...sorry.

lol... Tsk tsk tsk...

[Snowblock]

I once had this actual conversation with a customer:

Why is there always work being done on the weekends?

Because some projects take longer than 8 hours, so can't be done overnight.....

So why not do them during the week?

We do them on weekends because there will be less people inconvenienced. It's too busy during the week.

Well you should do them during the week because it won't mess up people's plans. Who cares about getting to work on time?

[Lance]

The easy answer as to why there's as much weekend work today as there was prior to the implementation of FASTRACK is quite simple. FASTRACK isn't the roaring success the MTA painted it out to be. It's only a two hour difference between FASTRACK late night work and regular late night work. That's really not a lot of time to do much of anything as opposed to the 52-hour span weekend work gives. The only difference is it's a full-line closure as opposed to a partial one.

 

Then, as mentioned previously, work on outdoor lines cannot be done via FASTRACK. Those can only be done either during the midday hours or weekend daytime hours.

[RTOMan]

It seems like they could kill two birds with one stone though... I mean after all, the whole point of Fastrack (at least from my understanding) was to lessen the amount and frequency of weekend work. If that isn't being accomplished, then I would argue that the has failed on what in my mind was a promise (obviously an indirect one) from them to have less disruptions during the weekends. I personally avoid using the subway on weekends unless necessary from this reason and use the local bus in the city or just walk if I can.

The majority of weekend work is outside contracting mostly electrical and infrastructural.

 

Especially in the tunnels , so it's kinda difficult to have workers running fiber optic cables while you are doing track work and or third rail work and or signal work...

 

There's your reason in a nutshell.

 

Get used to it along the corridor in queens five year project off and on GOs...

 

It is what it is.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The majority of weekend work is outside contracting mostly electrical and infrastructural.

 

Especially in the tunnels , so it's kinda difficult to have workers running fiber optic cables while you are doing track work and or third rail work and or signal work...

 

There's your reason in a nutshell.

 

Get used to it along the corridor in queens five year project off and on GOs...

 

It is what it is.

Wow... The plus is that at least you can see online beforehand... I do like that they put the subway GOs on a separate page and stopped plastering them on the main page during the weekends.  

 

 

I once had this actual conversation with a customer:

 

Why is there always work being done on the weekends?

 

Because some projects take longer than 8 hours, so can't be done overnight.....

 

So why not do them during the week?

 

We do them on weekends because there will be less people inconvenienced. It's too busy during the week.

 

Well you should do them during the week because it won't mess up people's plans. Who cares about getting to work on time?

Well the thing is people don't just work during the week.  Plenty of people work on the weekends too.  I thought that was part of the reason the started Fastrack, not to necessarily stop doing work on weekends, but to do it less often on weekends.  

[bobtehpanda]

 

Wow... The plus is that at least you can see online beforehand... I do like that they put the subway GOs on a separate page and stopped plastering them on the main page during the weekends.  

 

 

Well the thing is people don't just work during the week.  Plenty of people work on the weekends too.  I thought that was part of the reason the started Fastrack, not to necessarily stop doing work on weekends, but to do it less often on weekends.  

 

 

A good portion of it was because the MTA started separating the components of station rehabs into separate projects, mostly because things like paint and tiles had less of a lifespan than fixing structural problems and whatnot, so stations that were rehabbed would end up looking like crap again pretty quickly. It also solves handy liability issues, since multiple workers have been struck by trains while working during a GO.

 

The rising weekend ridership was probably also a factor. The main problem is that with a 24/7 system, performing necessary work is always going to step on a bunch of toes, particularly with a system this old and in disrepair. The alternative is what Chicago does; shut down entire sections of lines for six to nine months but tear down everything but the kitchen sink in the meantime.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A good portion of it was because the MTA started separating the components of station rehabs into separate projects, mostly because things like paint and tiles had less of a lifespan than fixing structural problems and whatnot, so stations that were rehabbed would end up looking like crap again pretty quickly. It also solves handy liability issues, since multiple workers have been struck by trains while working during a GO.

 

The rising weekend ridership was probably also a factor. The main problem is that with a 24/7 system, performing necessary work is always going to step on a bunch of toes, particularly with a system this old and in disrepair. The alternative is what Chicago does; shut down entire sections of lines for six to nine months but tear down everything but the kitchen sink in the meantime.

Which is precisely what I think should happen in some cases... They should shut down more stations to ensure that the work is done properly and quickly rather than in bits and pieces.  It would be a pain but folks would adjust.

[Lance]

They probably would adjust, but it'd be a hard sell. It's bad enough when it's a couple of stations on a line that are closed for renovations. Try doing that with an entire line (I don't know which ones you'd pick) and riders will go ballistic.