news Subway riders group proposes new signage for service changes - AM New York

[Wallyhorse]

Just when you thought New Yorkers couldn't get any more dense than what they already are...

 

...I mean they hang up those posters every Wednesday or so, they post up the disruptions for the entire system on the backs of those huge maps on platforms AND on the walls near turnstiles in clear sight. They make announcements about it on buses. Hell, they even have a website with an interactive map that tells you exactly what's gonna be messed up (and a ton of apps that do the same), hell, the website itself gives you directions around wherever they working at. What more do they want...

The work does have to get done, but its the timing that sometimes is the problem for a lot of these festivals.

 

The one alternative might be on the for instance would be to shut the segment down entirely for 10-17 days straight during the summer (when ridership is lower) as was done for quite a while in Philly during the rebuild of the Market-Frankford El several years ago (with on weekdays express shuttle buses running directly between the ends of the shutdowns).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

How about answering Lance's question from a week ago before you go and start the same rant all over again?

Well he should probably quote me if he wants me to know that he is talking to me, otherwise unless I check the actual thread, I have no way of knowing.  I'm not a transit planner and I don't pretend to be.  I speak as a general rider and always have, and speak on behalf of what riders outside of this forum think and say. The claims that they work with the communities that are affected by the shutdowns, and each case is on an individual basis.  In my mind, the complexity of the system is not an excuse to keep up the status quo.  The guys making the decisions are paid big bucks for a reason, and that's to be creative and come up with new ways to do these projects faster and quicker.  The population here continues to grow and the fact of the matter is more and more people will need to use the system and not just during the week. 

 

I for example support the current shutdown project that will start tonight. It's 5 weeks of pain for those riders, but the 's job is to make people aware and let them figure out what alternatives work best for them.  The work needs to be done and done quickly and efficiently, and hopefully the job will be completed on time if not before. This will hopefully mean that the doesn't have to be knocked out again constantly going forward.

But the rails broke on Queens Bvld, major fail right there. Sorry sir..

Yeah and?  That still doesn't mean that the should sell out the US for cheap labor and goods.

My question to that 10-month old article is this: how have the weekends on the been recently? Any complaints now? I understand the frustration of being inconvenienced, but it's not a constant inconvenience. I'm pretty sure no businesses closed down from those outages, though I think the MTA deliberately scheduled that outage to stick it to Williamsburg...

 

If the MTA scheduled outages according to local community events, then nothing would get done. They do consider events that have major impacts on the city, like the holiday season. In this case, (and I know you'll hate this) the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

But only for a few weekends...

Actually it is a constant inconvenience on weekends... That's the whole point. Just have a look at the status page on the website over the weekend for subway service.

[realizm]

Well he should probably quote me if he wants me to know that he is talking to me, otherwise unless I check the actual thread, I have no way of knowing.  I'm not a transit planner and I don't pretend to be.  I speak as a general rider and always have, and speak on behalf of what riders outside of this forum think and say. The   claims that they work with the communities that are affected by the shutdowns, and each case is on an individual basis.  In my mind, the complexity of the system is not an excuse to keep up the status quo.  The guys making the decisions are paid big bucks for a reason, and that's to be creative and come up with new ways to do these projects faster and quicker.  The population here continues to grow and the fact of the matter is more and more people will need to use the system and not just during the week. 

 

On your point being made here, you cant make something out of nothing and expect results out of the clear blue sky. Yes there are going to be weekend GOs. Why? The subways have to operate around the clock, 7 days a week, that is what you need to understand. They cant just shut down.

 

That's why we have weekend GO's to compensate for lack of down time by shutting down lines overnight like many rapid transit systems do. New York City Transit is in a class in its own because of its around the clock service. Therefore aside from Fastracks there is no other way to find that time frame necessary to do the job of maintainance. Thats why we have weekend GOs.

 

Get it now?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

On your point being made here, you cant make something out of nothing and expect results out of the clear blue sky. Yes there are going to be weekend GOs. Why? The subways have to operate around the clock, 7 days a week, that is what you need to understand. They cant just shut down.

 

That's why we have weekend GO's to compensate for lack of down time by shutting down lines overnight like many rapid transit systems do. New York City Transit is in a class in its own because of its around the clock service. Therefore aside from Fastracks there is no other way to find that time frame necessary to do the job of maintainance. Thats why we have weekend GOs.

 

Get it now?

Can't or won't?  There's a difference between the two.  It's being done with sections of the starting tonight... They aren't running plenty of subway lines 7 days a week now completely because if they were, all sections of lines would be running on weekends.  Get it now?

[realizm]

Can't or won't?  There's a difference between the two.  It's being done with sections of the starting tonight... They aren't running plenty of subway lines 7 days a week now completely because if they were, all sections of lines would be running on weekends.  Get it now?

You still dont get it.

 

1) The system runs 7 days a week it does not close with some notable exceptions due to damage inflicted by Hurricane Sandy. Saltwater erosion of the concrete and iron rings of the underwater tubes requires repair because saltwater damage if left not attended to is irreversable and will destroy structures. This is federally funded, btw.

 

2)Otherwise you take your pick since this system runs 24-7, seven days a week? The system cannot just shut down, which was your original complaint here for two different threads now. This is not MARTA in Atlanta, this is NYC Transit. Apples and oranges.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You still dont get it.

 

1) The system runs 7 days a week it does not close with some notable exceptions due to damage inflicted by Hurricane Sandy. Saltwater erosion of the concrete and iron rings of the underwater tubes requires repair because saltwater damage if left not attended to is irreversable and will destroy structures. This is federally funded, btw.

 

2)Otherwise you take your pick since this system runs 24-7, seven days a week? The system cannot just shut down, which was your original complaint here for two different threads now. This is not MARTA in Atlanta, this is NYC Transit. Apples and oranges.

No, you don't get it.  I never called for the system to just "shut down".  What I stated was that sections of lines could perhaps be shut down for longer periods where necessary, which they're already doing on weekends and at night with Fastrack....

[realizm]

No, you don't get it.  I never called for the system to just "shut down".  What I stated was that sections of lines could perhaps be shut down for longer periods where necessary, which they're already doing on weekends and at night with Fastrack....

Sections of the system ARE being shut down for longer periods of time. Its called the Fastrack program. Read up on it..

 

Anything further than that, no can do. The system runs 24-7 it has to to accommodate passengers at night. Try shutting down Times Square station for 4 weeks straight, see what happens..

[Tokkemon]

Does anyone remember the strike from 2005 when the Subway shut down for a couple days? The city lost something like $1 Billion a day because people couldn't get to work. The subway is absolutely essential and cannot shut down.

As for the weekend nonsense, ride the subway from 8-9am on any line anywhere in the whole system. That's why you don't do repair work on weekdays. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Sections of the system ARE being shut down for longer periods of time. Its called the Fastrack program. Read up on it..

And I'm saying to EXPAND THAT where possible.... Make sense now? They're doing it with the starting tonight.  Read up on it...

 

http://pix11.com/2014/07/25/g-subway-line-shutting-down-for-5-weeks/

 

Does anyone remember the strike from 2005 when the Subway shut down for a couple days? The city lost something like $1 Billion a day because people couldn't get to work. The subway is absolutely essential and cannot shut down.

 

As for the weekend nonsense, ride the subway from 8-9am on any line anywhere in the whole system. That's why you don't do repair work on weekdays. 

Well they're going to be doing it on the starting tonight...

[realizm]

And I'm saying to EXPAND THAT where possible.... Make sense now? They're doing it with the starting tonight.  Read up on it...

 

http://pix11.com/2014/07/25/g-subway-line-shutting-down-for-5-weeks/

 

Well they're going to be doing it on the starting tonight...

So what? We already had the announcement on the official site itself for weeks this GO will run as expected. Thats old news.

 

As I had already explained, this Sandy recovery work is the exception because of saltwater corrosion in the tunnels. This was discussed...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So what? We already had the announcement on the official site itself for weeks this GO will run as expected. Thats old news.

 

As I had already explained, this Sandy recovery work is the exception because of saltwater corrosion in the tunnels. This was discussed...

Sandy or not, a section of the line will be shut down starting tonight, and passengers will have to find alternatives for the next 5 weeks...  Certainly not old news...

[realizm]

Sandy or not, a section of the line will be shut down starting tonight, and passengers will have to find alternatives for the next 5 weeks...  Certainly not old news...

So wait.... you only know about this now? If you never saw it on the MTA site itself the publicly accessible information about the GO on the Greenpoint Tubes, you should have saw it as a service notice posted throughout the system constantly for months now.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So wait.... you only know about this now? If you never saw it on the MTA site itself the publicly accessible information about the GO on the Greenpoint Tubes, you should have saw it as a service notice posted throughout the system constantly for months now.

You've been saying that the can't shut down segments of lines for prolonged periods of time, and I'm saying that they can as evidenced by the aforementioned example.  The reason is irrelevant.  Will it cause pain? Sure, but don't sit here and tell me that it can't be done.  When work needs to be done they do what they have to do, period, and I believe that they should do more of this instead of this piece meal crap. 

[realizm]

You've been saying that the can't shut down segments of lines for prolonged periods of time, and I'm saying that they can as evidenced by the aforementioned example.  The reason is irrelevant.  Will it cause pain? Sure, but don't sit here and tell me that it can't be done.  When work needs to be done they do what they have to do, period, and I believe that they should do more of this instead of this piece meal crap.

 

Yes that question to the options that NYC Transit should take? Cease to be an around the clock 7 day a week operation that will solve the problem? But that is the problem. We cant!

 

That's why we have weekend GOs and Fastracks in place.

 

Again as I was also stating some things do require short term closures but not for months on end unless the structural measures are that massive such as with the damage to the Greenpoint tubes. Its a unique problem. So that's a different issue. FYI this was announced months ago, not with this exclusive WPIX 11 news report.

 

Listen... The Sea Beach rehabilitation project will take years to finish from next year. Maybe we should shut it down completely... no service for two years for your sake of convenience, since you dont live in Brooklyn...

 

You are aware of the fact we still have repair work on the 53rd Street tubes as well, hence the GOs in Queens? Your're welcome.

[SmallParkShuttle]

Actually it is a constant inconvenience on weekends... That's the whole point. Just have a look at the status page on the website over the weekend for subway service.

Constant for the system as a whole, but not for specific areas. There are not many people who get their ride disrupted every weekend of the year, if there are any. There have been three weekend outages on the that required bustitution since that article you liked to was written. Three. One was an emergency repair. Owe that in part to the work that was done last year. A couple of weekends has produced at least months of impact.

 

In my opinion, shutting down whole segments of lines for months at a time will cause more public backlash than what they currently do. For the MTA to commit all it's resources to repairs on one segment for months at a time is very poor resource management. I'm pretty sure they looked at that, and that is why they have the combined system of Fastrack and individual long term station closures for the major repairs, and weekend work for the not so major repairs. Faults and defects happen all over the system, and to focus on one line at a time would put that line out of service, while the rest of the system revisits the 1970s. You can't schedule equipment wear and breakdowns.

 

The thing is, when there will be multiple weekend outages, the MTA does take steps to inform the affected portion of the public. CBTC and station outages were usually publicized months in advance. The outage coming up was on posters at least a year ago.

[RTOMan]

This just keeps getting better and better!

[biGC323232]

This just keeps getting better and better!

 

WORD.......

[Lance]

Alright, I'll jump in here. The only reason they're doing the shutdown as they are with a continuous shutdown is because it's not possible to do it as several weekend closures. If it was, the MTA would've looked into doing it that way, rather than affect weekday riders. While it's not at the same level of destruction as the Montague Street tubes, the tunnels were severely corroded by Sandy. Plus, with it being summer, that portion of the line is not as heavily used as it is during other times of the year. Most other lines don't have this luxury and are quite busy during most parts of the day.

 

As I've said before, and quite frankly am getting tired of repeating, continuous line closures, even partial ones, are not ideal in most situations. So I ask again, Via G (since you seem to suddenly forget how forum posts work), what sections of lines (other than the current Crosstown one that takes effect starting tonight) would you consider to shut down for long periods? And this time, I would like a serious answer. You always talk about cop-out answers given to you, I want an answer from you, not some non-response that the MTA planners get paid the big bucks to come up with these ideas. That's irrelevant to this discussion.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes that question to the options that NYC Transit should take? Cease to be an around the clock 7 day a week operation that will solve the problem? But that is the problem. We cant!

 

That's why we have weekend GOs and Fastracks in place.

 

Again as I was also stating some things do require short term closures but not for months on end unless the structural measures are that massive such as with the damage to the Greenpoint tubes. Its a unique problem. So that's a different issue. FYI this was announced months ago, not with this exclusive WPIX 11 news report.

 

Listen... The Sea Beach rehabilitation project will take years to finish from next year. Maybe we should shut it down completely... no service for two years for your sake of convenience, since you dont live in Brooklyn...

 

Maybe they should to be honest and I'm not joking... The stations along the Sea Beach line really need a gut job from start to finish, and I'm not sure if patchwork will do any good.  They've been through years of neglect, and the being more worried about serving passengers on the line while chunks of concrete fall all over the platform.  Then you have passengers making a stink about the conditions of the stations.  In my mind you can't have both.  You want nice stations, you have to make sacrifices.  Believe me, I dealt with huge inconveniences during the construction along the Brighton Beach line.  It was a real pain, but the new stations are very much welcomed now that the work has been completed.

[Union Tpke]

As far as I know, isn't the MTA in the process of developing and implementing a passenger information display system? I wouldn't use the excuse that the system is old, I'd use the exuse that the system is very complex. 467 stations over two divisions, 

It's 468 by the MTA's count

[Fresh Pond]

Sandy or not, a section of the line will be shut down starting tonight, and passengers will have to find alternatives for the next 5 weeks... Certainly not old news...

They're gonna have 2 separate shuttle buses running non-stop, created an out-of-system transfer as an alternative, in addition to the regular city bus that already provides a perfect substitution for that segment

 

I'm pretty sure they have all of there bases covered

[Union Tpke]

The work does have to get done, but its the timing that sometimes is the problem for a lot of these festivals.

 

The one alternative might be on the for instance would be to shut the segment down entirely for 10-17 days straight during the summer (when ridership is lower) as was done for quite a while in Philly during the rebuild of the Market-Frankford El several years ago (with on weekdays express shuttle buses running directly between the ends of the shutdowns).

This is one of the worst proposals I have ever from you. Shuttle buses? really. 

This made me laugh. i would have fallen out of my chair had i been in one.

[Lance]

Maybe they should to be honest and I'm not joking... The stations along the Sea Beach line really need a gut job from start to finish, and I'm not sure if patchwork will do any good.  They've been through years of neglect, and the being more worried about serving passengers on the line while chunks of concrete fall all over the platform.  Then you have passengers making a stink about the conditions of the stations.  In my mind you can't have both.  You want nice stations, you have to make sacrifices.  Believe me, I dealt with huge inconveniences during the construction along the Brighton Beach line.  It was a real pain, but the new stations are very much welcomed now that the work has been completed.

Yeah, but the Brighton line wasn't shut down for weeks or months on end. It might have felt like it, but it never was. Station closures are different. You can close a station and have riders use nearby stations via local and/or shuttle buses.

 

Getting back to the point of the article, I'm not sure what they're asking for. On one hand, they want all of the correct information in a timely manner, but they also don't a wall of service advisories. If you're looking for a specific line for any possible disruptions, the easy thing to do is to look for your particular line and start from there. Yeah, it can be a bit daunting, especially at the bigger stations and/or on lines that have multiple concurrent service changes in place, but what's to say a calender won't suffer the same problems if the conditions are the same. And by the way, wasn't there some kind of monthly poster at stations during the Walder tenure that showed all the major disruptions affecting lines? I seem to recall it existing.

 

As for the Weekender being used for weekday/late night service disruptions, if it helps, why not. Personally, I'd be pushing for a map that shows actual weekend service, including service diversions, like the one I put out every week, rather than the flashing dots approach the MTA uses to show any station with a service disruption.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, but the Brighton line wasn't shut down for weeks or months on end. It might have felt like it, but it never was. Station closures are different. You can close a station and have riders use nearby stations via local and/or shuttle buses.

Well I think more station closures should occur when shut down of lines in sections aren't as feasible, this way the work gets done without any patch work.

They're gonna have 2 separate shuttle buses running non-stop, created an out-of-system transfer as an alternative, in addition to the regular city bus that already provides a perfect substitution for that segment

 

I'm pretty sure they have all of there bases covered

Yeah well I don't think those riders would necessarily agree with you...

[realizm]

This just keeps getting better and better!