ttcsubwayfan Posted July 9, 2015 Share #26 Posted July 9, 2015 Sure, being able to fit everyone in the train is nice and all. But how does that attract passengers? You're not going to entice car users to switch to public transit by making them wait 12 minutes for a packed train in a hot, stuffy station. This isn't like Metro-North, where you can run a big ass train every hour and fit everyone on, because they made at an appointment to be at the station at that time. Subway ridership has a lot of local demand, especially in the offpeak, where you arrive at a station and expect a train to be there within a reasonable period of time. In Toronto, trains run at 5-6 minute frequencies all the way into the evening. As for the , there is absolutely no reason to cut service. In my experience, I have happened upon trains with large loads at the following locations: -At 34 St, southbound. 10 AM -At Broad Channel, northbound. 2 PM -At Chambers Street, northbound. 8:30 PM While these circumstances may not have been enough to warrant adding extra trains (except for the 8:30 one, because WHY were there crushloads that late into the night?), it's proof that the is not as quiet as you think, and removing trains would only cause the existing trains to get even more crowded. When it comes to subway service, overserved is always better than underserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 9, 2015 Share #27 Posted July 9, 2015 Seriously TTC, as long as everybody is able to fit inside the train (and not get left behind on the platform while waiting another 5-10 minutes for the next train), then there's obviously no need for more service. Read my other post and you'll understand that I'm not fully against more service. Only if people are letting trains pass because of crushloaded trains, then yes, more service is needed. Otherwise, how are you going to say more service is needed? Because all you care about is having all trains and all platforms plain empty? Let's not even go there. You know as well as I do is that is wrong and just shows that the is paying extra train crews to run more service for little to no reason. Have you ever heard of the phrase called "don't use it, you lose it"? I'm pretty sure that the was cut permanently from the Queens Boulevard Line, was partly because almost nobody wanted to go to Crosstown. I mean you can only run so many trains on a line before they become downright empty. As long as more people are taking the to the and/or or just simply staying on the , then the Crosstown Line train has no business being on the Queens Boulevard Line. I beg to differ. Not that long ago, loading guidelines were better. For example on buses, the loading guidelines were such that one could expect to get on and not automatically have to stand. Comfort IS important, and goes along with the quickness of the trip and the frequency of service. If those three things are a problem, it can and has deterred ridership. We see clear instances of this with bus ridership. The only reason subways continue to see increases in ridership is because in some areas, the subway IS the only option, not because service is so good. If you ask most passengers, they would say that subway service overall continues to deteriorate (constantly delayed/late/overcrowded trains), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted July 9, 2015 Share #28 Posted July 9, 2015 Sure, being able to fit everyone in the train is nice and all. But how does that attract passengers? You're not going to entice car users to switch to public transit by making them wait 12 minutes for a packed train in a hot, stuffy station. This isn't like Metro-North, where you can run a big ass train every hour and fit everyone on, because they made at an appointment to be at the station at that time. Subway ridership has a lot of local demand, especially in the offpeak, where you arrive at a station and expect a train to be there within a reasonable period of time. In Toronto, trains run at 5-6 minute frequencies all the way into the evening. As for the , there is absolutely no reason to cut service. In my experience, I have happened upon trains with large loads at the following locations: -At 34 St, southbound. 10 AM -At Broad Channel, northbound. 2 PM -At Chambers Street, northbound. 8:30 PM While these circumstances may not have been enough to warrant adding extra trains (except for the 8:30 one, because WHY were there crushloads that late into the night?), it's proof that the is not as quiet as you think, and removing trains would only cause the existing trains to get even more crowded. When it comes to subway service, overserved is always better than underserved. So that means you're seriously suggesting that the cannot handle the extra load from the at all? That makes no sense. If you're at ANY station between 168th Street and Euclid Avenue served by BOTH of them, there is absolutely no real reason to rely on just the because the can take you there too. When you come back for a visit in New York City, go and ride the between 10 am and 3 pm Monday through Friday, as well as every weekend, and tell me how crowded the train is. I mean how long was the train crowded during the OFF-PEAK when you was in New York City back in the previous three years? Are people actually going to any station east of Euclid Avenue (southbound) or north of 168th Street (northbound)? That's rush hours only, not during middays, evenings, weekends, and nights when people are ALREADY at work/school or are OFF from work/school. There's no reason to rely on the express. Take any train that shows up and that's it. It's not like the train is going to give you free food. Only if people are left behind on the platform AND are actually going to a destination on just one of the lines and not on both lines, running many more trains on the system's longest line or the local won't solve anything. This is why the tells you to plan ahead. Therefore, take the first train that shows up and ride it to the destination that is also served by the said train. More service isn't everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted July 9, 2015 Share #29 Posted July 9, 2015 So that means you're seriously suggesting that the cannot handle the extra load from the at all? That makes no sense. If you're at ANY station between 168th Street and Euclid Avenue served by BOTH of them, there is absolutely no real reason to rely on just the because the can take you there too. When you come back for a visit in New York City, go and ride the between 10 am and 3 pm Monday through Friday, as well as every weekend, and tell me how crowded the train is. I mean how long was the train crowded during the OFF-PEAK when you was in New York City back in the previous three years? Are people actually going to any station east of Euclid Avenue (southbound) or north of 168th Street (northbound)? That's rush hours only, not during middays, evenings, weekends, and nights when people are ALREADY at work/school or are OFF from work/school. There's no reason to rely on the express. Take any train that shows up and that's it. It's not like the train is going to give you free food. Only if people are left behind on the platform AND are actually going to a destination on just one of the lines and not on both lines, running many more trains on the system's longest line or the local won't solve anything. This is why the tells you to plan ahead. Therefore, take the first train that shows up and ride it to the destination that is also served by the said train. More service isn't everything. For someone who lives on CPW you're WRONG about people not wanting to go past 168th Street outside of Rush Hours. And you do realize that Howard Beach and 175th Street are busy stations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted July 9, 2015 Share #30 Posted July 9, 2015 For someone who lives on CPW you're WRONG about people not wanting to go past 168th Street outside of Rush Hours. And you do realize that Howard Beach and 175th Street are busy stations? Yeah and? Do you see overcrowding issues on the train during the off-peak? All I see is bunch trains with the first being crowded and the other empty. If the ran on time, then it will be less crowded, meaning its seats all filled up with some people standing, even if it ran at the same headways like the does. And for the record, I've been riding the fairly regularly for 5 years in a row, so don't tell me that I'm wrong. I talk from experience, not from reading what's black and white on this site and also on local media. Never have I ever encountered "crowded" or "crushloaded" trains north of 168th Street and east of Euclid Avenue during the off-peak. The stations that you yourself just mention, in particular, are busy, but the question is how long is the train crowded between stations during the off-peak and where are majority of the passengers going exactly, and more importantly, are people actually being left behind on the platforms? That's the only lone sentence that you can quote from my post? Try responding to the entire post and not just one little sentences that are a minor error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted July 9, 2015 Share #31 Posted July 9, 2015 Yeah and? Do you see overcrowding issues on the train during the off-peak? All I see is bunch trains with the first being crowded and the other empty. If the ran on time, then it will be less crowded, meaning its seats all filled up with some people standing, even if it ran at the same headways like the does. And for the record, I've been riding the fairly regularly for 5 years in a row, so don't tell me that I'm wrong. I talk from experience, not from reading what's black and white on this site and also on local media. Me been riding the subway alone longer than you so what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronxBombers Posted July 9, 2015 Share #32 Posted July 9, 2015 So that means you're seriously suggesting that the cannot handle the extra load from the at all? That makes no sense. If you're at ANY station between 168th Street and Euclid Avenue served by BOTH of them, there is absolutely no real reason to rely on just the because the can take you there too. When you come back for a visit in New York City, go and ride the between 10 am and 3 pm Monday through Friday, as well as every weekend, and tell me how crowded the train is. I mean how long was the train crowded during the OFF-PEAK when you was in New York City back in the previous three years? Are people actually going to any station east of Euclid Avenue (southbound) or north of 168th Street (northbound)? That's rush hours only, not during middays, evenings, weekends, and nights when people are ALREADY at work/school or are OFF from work/school. There's no reason to rely on the express. Take any train that shows up and that's it. It's not like the train is going to give you free food. Only if people are left behind on the platform AND are actually going to a destination on just one of the lines and not on both lines, running many more trains on the system's longest line or the local won't solve anything. This is why the tells you to plan ahead. Therefore, take the first train that shows up and ride it to the destination that is also served by the said train. More service isn't everything. Most of the people who ride the subway, and have an option to take an express train to reach their destination quicker will opt for the express instead of the local. Yes the shares most of their stops, but passengers will always take the if that means they will save time. I highly doubt anybody from 168th who wants to go to Fulton Street (or vice versa) would take the when the would save them time, even if it's 5 minutes behind. There is no need to reduce the headways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted July 9, 2015 Share #33 Posted July 9, 2015 Most of the people who ride the subway, and have an option to take an express train to reach their destination quicker will opt for the express instead of the local. Yes the shares most of their stops, but passengers will always take the if that means they will save time. I highly doubt anybody from 168th who wants to go to Fulton Street (or vice versa) would take the when the would save them time, even if it's 5 minutes behind. There is no need to reduce the headways. I agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted July 9, 2015 Share #34 Posted July 9, 2015 Me been riding the subway alone longer than you so what's your point? You have some nerve. You're not even THAT older than me, so don't give me that bullcrap. Been riding the subway as long as you have also. Like I said before, I talk from experience. Most of the people who ride the subway, and have an option to take an express train to reach their destination quicker will opt for the express instead of the local. Yes the shares most of their stops, but passengers will always take the if that means they will save time. I highly doubt anybody from 168th who wants to go to Fulton Street (or vice versa) would take the when the would save them time, even if it's 5 minutes behind. There is no need to reduce the headways. Depends. But if the was running an additional 5-10 minutes late, you would have no choice but to take the if you really wanted to get to your destination on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted July 9, 2015 Share #35 Posted July 9, 2015 You have some nerve. You're not even THAT older than me, so don't give me that bullcrap. Been riding the subway as long as you have also. Like I said before, I talk from experience. Depends. But if the was running an additional 5-10 minutes late, you would have no choice but to take the if you really wanted to get to your destination on time. LOL someone is upset. I didn't even bring up age but whatever. You really think the is not heavily used during non Rush Hours. Yeah ok you probably barely see how the Uptown Section is, "Waits For Another Excuse" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted July 9, 2015 Share #36 Posted July 9, 2015 LOL someone is upset. I didn't even bring up age but whatever. You really think the is not heavily used during non Rush Hours. Yeah ok you probably barely see how the Uptown Section is, "Waits For Another Excuse" Act all snide as you like, but your point about some stations along the line being busy has nothing to do with how long the train gets crowded. You probably only ride the train during rush hours and that's it. I guess all you care about is running a flood of trains for nothing and wasting money like the subway is a ghost-town or something. You can let a train pass by and you'll sit there for a good 15-20 minutes right before the even comes. Go figure. That's you. *waits for another snide comment* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronxBombers Posted July 9, 2015 Share #37 Posted July 9, 2015 Depends. But if the was running an additional 5-10 minutes late, you would have no choice but to take the if you really wanted to get to your destination on time. If your going between 59th and Hoyt than take either train that comes first. But north of 59th and east of Hoyt, if the will take you there quicker than most people would rather take the . It's a habit that most New Yorkers do when it comes to the subway. If the local comes first but the express will take you there quicker even if it's behind, people would still rather take the express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted July 9, 2015 Share #38 Posted July 9, 2015 Not to mention, I've frequently encountered packed Queens bound trains during the evening commute going home. I'd have to agree with most of the fellas here. The is NOT only crowded during the rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted July 9, 2015 Share #39 Posted July 9, 2015 Act all snide as you like, but your point about some stations along the line being busy has nothing to do with how long the train gets crowded. You probably only ride the train during rush hours and that's it. I guess all you care about is running a flood of trains for nothing and wasting money like the subway is a ghost-town or something. You can let a train pass by and you'll sit there for a good 15-20 minutes right before the even comes. Go figure. That's you. I actually ride the subway during the Midday and evening hours more than the Rush Hours which I usually be doing photography stuff and occasionally get compliments from people but I'll save that for another story. BTW I see you love downvoting people's post over someone not agreeing with you. Thats really mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted July 9, 2015 Share #40 Posted July 9, 2015 So that means you're seriously suggesting that the cannot handle the extra load from the at all? That makes no sense. If you're at ANY station between 168th Street and Euclid Avenue served by BOTH of them, there is absolutely no real reason to rely on just the because the can take you there too. When you come back for a visit in New York City, go and ride the between 10 am and 3 pm Monday through Friday, as well as every weekend, and tell me how crowded the train is. I mean how long was the train crowded during the OFF-PEAK when you was in New York City back in the previous three years? Are people actually going to any station east of Euclid Avenue (southbound) or north of 168th Street (northbound)? That's rush hours only, not during middays, evenings, weekends, and nights when people are ALREADY at work/school or are OFF from work/school. There's no reason to rely on the express. Take any train that shows up and that's it. It's not like the train is going to give you free food. Only if people are left behind on the platform AND are actually going to a destination on just one of the lines and not on both lines, running many more trains on the system's longest line or the local won't solve anything. This is why the tells you to plan ahead. Therefore, take the first train that shows up and ride it to the destination that is also served by the said train. More service isn't everything. Um, no. I don't buy into the delusion that I absolutely need the express to get somewhere. I took whatever came first, and in those cases, it was the express. It was packed, consistently. Note also that I mentioned a full load at Broad Channel. For a segment of track that doesn't seem to be "busy", that was far too many people. The Rockway Shuttle, THAT sh*t is a ghost town. The absolutely is not. Also, just because people are off work and school doesn't mean the subway is unused. A long time ago that might have been the case, but these days, there's a lot of off-peak traffic... people visiting friends, restaurants, places of entertainment, etc. In a city like New York, traffic will be high at most times of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted July 10, 2015 Share #41 Posted July 10, 2015 I actually ride the subway during the Midday and evening hours more than the Rush Hours which I usually be doing photography stuff and occasionally get compliments from people but I'll save that for another story. BTW I see you love downvoting people's post over someone not agreeing with you. Thats really mature. I don't care about what you do while you're taking the subway. Neither your photography nor your love to the train has nothing to do with ridership in the subway nor how long trains are crowded between stations. I downvoted your post because you thought I never rode the subway until I started taking the . Never did I ever downvoted anyone else here in this thread. And who cares about the past? The past is the past. Get over it. Just admit that you only care overserving every station with more service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted July 10, 2015 Share #42 Posted July 10, 2015 I don't care about what you do while you're taking the subway. Your photography has nothing to do with ridership in the subway nor how long trains are crowded between stations. I downvoted your post because you thought I never rode the subway until I started taking the . Never did I ever downvoted anyone else here in this thread. And who cares about the past? The past is the past. Get over it. I guess you didn't bother reading what I said carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted July 10, 2015 Share #43 Posted July 10, 2015 Um, no. I don't buy into the delusion that I absolutely need the express to get somewhere. I took whatever came first, and in those cases, it was the express. It was packed, consistently. Note also that I mentioned a full load at Broad Channel. For a segment of track that doesn't seem to be "busy", that was far too many people. The Rockway Shuttle, THAT sh*t is a ghost town. The absolutely is not. Also, just because people are off work and school doesn't mean the subway is unused. A long time ago that might have been the case, but these days, there's a lot of off-peak traffic... people visiting friends, restaurants, places of entertainment, etc. In a city like New York, traffic will be high at most times of the day. I'll admit that I always do wish for things to perfect, but that's never the case. All I'm saying is that people should rely on other lines too depending on which station that they're at...the and & the and is a clear example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted July 10, 2015 Share #44 Posted July 10, 2015 And that's all well and good in Manhattan, but what of the outer boroughs? People between 125 St and Wakefield don't have any other options to get to the west side besides the . There's a lot of demand for those trains, which means that by the time they reach Manhattan they'll be packed to the rafters. And telling Manhattanites to take the isn't a good solution either... what if they need to get to Flatbush? The won't be much help then. They'll have to use the , which they'll have to wait forever for, and then try to squeeze on. Same deal with the . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted July 10, 2015 Share #45 Posted July 10, 2015 Southbound trains in Brooklyn are always lightly loaded except the afternoon/evening rushes and maybe on weekend afternoons/evenings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted July 10, 2015 Share #46 Posted July 10, 2015 Let me just point out a few scenarios that would have two lines share a majority of their routes and point out why one tends to be more crowded than the other: vs between Franklin Avenue and 135 Street Most Crowded: because it goes to three boroughs, and covers more areas than the . vs between the terminals Most crowded: because it is an express, and the fastest whan one wants to go between Harlem and the PABT area. and vs and between Roosevelt Avenue or Queens Plaza and Forest Hills Most Crowded: and fir the same reasons as the . If there are any more lines that may be pointed out in this discussion, feel free to point them out so I can explain why one is more crowded than another. Otherwise, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted July 10, 2015 Share #47 Posted July 10, 2015 Both the Flatbush branch and the New Lots branch have roughly the same amount of riders...let's take the PM rush hour for example, the southbound combined have more riders than the alone because the demand to the Flatbush branch is more than the New Lots branch. Utica Av is the busiest station in the Brooklyn IRT overall (outside of the Brooklyn CBD stations), but with the 7 stations on the New Lots branch combined, including Nostrand and Kingston, the is busier than the is... Heading back to the topic, all I can see is that maybe they should just run the between 149 Street-Grand Concourse and Bowling Green instead of running more trains on the entire line while over-serving the Jerome Line as well the Brooklyn section... ttcsubwayfan, about your statement about Broad Channel, you are correct that almost everyone transfers between the train and the Rock Park shuttle, but the meant that the amount of people that ENTER the station is the lowest in the entire subway system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted July 10, 2015 Share #48 Posted July 10, 2015 Heading back to the topic, all I can see is that maybe they should just run the between 149 Street-Grand Concourse and Bowling Green instead of running more trains on the entire line while over-serving the Jerome Line as well the Brooklyn section... That would mean more deadheading than necessary on the Jerome line for this particular GO. They already have to run some of the equipment to make service out of Jerome, then reverse at 138th and head downstairs. Next month they'll do the 149-Bowling Green thing you're mentioning, while the will be knocked out between 3 Av and 96 Street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted July 10, 2015 Share #49 Posted July 10, 2015 Southbound trains in Brooklyn are always lightly loaded except the afternoon/evening rushes and maybe on weekend afternoons/evenings. LMAO I have a bridge to sell you then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted July 10, 2015 Share #50 Posted July 10, 2015 LMAO I have a bridge to sell you then Word lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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