R211 Discussion Thread

[NBTA]

Ignorant side of me:  those 32s.

Logical: Ever since what..2007? The  has been scrap happy. It makes sense to keep a lot of these cars. I think people were saying that the 40S and 40Ms could’ve kept going a few more years, along with a bunch more of the 32s. They were just built extremely well. Having those 32s still around allows for extreme flexibility (you can run them on any line), and they can resolve any car shortage you have. There’s a reason why they didn’t scrap all of them, cause you never know what happens. 

In terms of the 211s, I heard the second set is here already.

[Lawrence St]

5 minutes ago, NBTA said:

Ignorant side of me:  those 32s.

Logical: Ever since what..2007? The  has been scrap happy. It makes sense to keep a lot of these cars. I think people were saying that the 40S and 40Ms could’ve kept going a few more years, along with a bunch more of the 32s. They were just built extremely well. Having those 32s still around allows for extreme flexibility (you can run them on any line), and they can resolve any car shortage you have. There’s a reason why they didn’t scrap all of them, cause you never know what happens. 

In terms of the 211s, I heard the second set is here already.

They scrapped like 70% of them. Does anyone have the official car count or sets that are staying?

[zacster]

Why are you all talking about the R32s.  Just do the math.  There are barely enough cars now to cover everything, but there are enough.  When the R211s start service they will sideline some R46s, hopefully the worst ones.  Those sidelined cars would still be enough to bring back if they need to pull the R211s for any reason.  They are enough now, and they'll be enough in the future.  The only issue will be that since they should pull the worst ones, putting the worst ones back in service could be a problem.  But is that a bigger problem than putting the R32s in service?  No, it's a problem either way.  My gut feeling though is that none of this will ever happen.  After two years of testing and the experience of the R179, the R211 will perform better than any car.

I'm also guessing the if the train passes the 30 day test the first time through, there will be a flood of new cars coming.  They must be chompin' at the bit to get those things outta Nebraska, even if they are the coolest thing in the state.  I mean, just about anything is cooler than a cow.

[JayJay85]

12 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

People tend to not understand this

 

Besides the Base order and a small chunk of option Order I going to the / , The I doubt would get em because the is based out of Coney Island yard and could get the R160s. The Could (I hope) can get the R211s but they can also get the R160s from Jamaica. I just hope they get the R211s.

The Siemens R160s are probably going to be the first to go since Jamaica keeps mixing them to the point where they had to put a bulletin to not mix the cars and their kinda oddballs even though they are the same type of cars with the propulsion only being the only difference.

 

 

The  can actually get R211's, if that's true then it's likely that Coney Island will used the R211's on  on Saturdays and Sunday.

The  need new trains they have the same trains for 35 years.

[darkstar8983]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I have a feeling those R211’s in SBK are actually the Staten Island units.

It might be the Staten Island units, considering that I don’t think production cars should be delivered until the pilot trains pass their tests. Otherwise they’ll just end up taking up space in the yard 

[RandomRider0101]

12 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

People tend to not understand this

 

The R32s are in way better shape than the R46s body wise, The R46s bodies are shot, It may not seem like it but they are shot and TA knows this. Numerous people who inspect these cars could vouch for this. The only downside for the R32s is their half cabs and other issues. I doubt they will be coming back and the way these retards act, The R32s should stay retired esp after that bullshit that transpired back in late 2021 when they took the train OOS because of how these idiots behaved.

 

I doubt the R211s would be problematic after almost 2 years of testing. If they Past their 30 day test by April 10th, Then We shouldn't have to worry about any issues. Even if one comes up, They'll have plenty of stored subway cars lying around which would be ether R32s or R46s. They are storing whichever cars are in the best shape until they know the R211s are trouble free and could start sending the remaining stored cars to scrap. 

 

Besides the Base order and a small chunk of option Order I going to the / , The I doubt would get em because the is based out of Coney Island yard and could get the R160s. The Could (I hope) can get the R211s but they can also get the R160s from Jamaica. I just hope they get the R211s.

The Siemens R160s are probably going to be the first to go since Jamaica keeps mixing them to the point where they had to put a bulletin to not mix the cars and their kinda oddballs even though they are the same type of cars with the propulsion only being the only difference.

 

 

This would explain why the r32s were initially predicted to outlast all r38s, r40s, r42s, r44s & r46s. But even if the MTA stuck with this plan, it would not have gone well due to the constant complaints coming from riders about the SMEES. 

I recall reading many accounts about how before the r160s came, the riders complained about the r46s (long dwell times), the r32s (lack of AC), and the r42s (rust bodies). They never seemed to be satisfied with any of the equipment they had; entitlement at its finest.

The riders' complaints (about the r32s) were more valid since they got stuck with them after the retirement was put on hold.

 

[Comrade96]

19 hours ago, IAlam said:

Never say never, the R44's were plagued with problems causing their early retirement and WAMATA had to deal with the 5000's which ended up having an early retirement, replaced by the 7000's which are plagued with their own myriad of issues.

I really hope the MTA doesn't double down on the R211 and use option II to replace the R68's for the reason stated above, fleet reliability can vary quite a bit between models. Putting all your eggs in one basket, kinda like how WAMATA did is a risky game. This also gives the MTA time to look at the R211 design and make changes, by the time an option II order would be complete the design of the train itself would be a decade old. The MTA should focus on a new design for the end of the decade/early 2030s based on the operations of the existing R211's over the next couple of years.  

replacing the r68s with option order 2 would place the MTA back at square one in terms of equipment available for use

[engineerboy6561]

2 minutes ago, Comrade96 said:

replacing the r68s with option order 2 would place the MTA back at square one in terms of equipment available for use

Using Option Order II to clear out the R68s would leave the MTA a solid 5-10% short on trains

[Comrade96]

Just now, engineerboy6561 said:

Using Option Order II to clear out the R68s would leave the MTA a solid 5-10% short on trains

Yup exactly

[IAlam]

19 minutes ago, Comrade96 said:

replacing the r68s with option order 2 would place the MTA back at square one in terms of equipment available for use

And the MTA could also replace it with another order with more up-to-date rails cars. The only good reason I could see option II being a good idea is if the MTA is worried they won't get future federal funds.

Also if anyone wants to see what the  and  looks like here ya go.

 

[RandomRider0101]

15 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It's incredible that some rail fans can't accept the fact that the r32's are retired. They are retired because they needed to be retired. Out with the old, In with the new.

I said it before and I say it again subway riders don't really care if a yard has a high spare factor or not. Subway riders want better service. Keeping the r32's any longer would cause more delays on the lines that would be using them. There has been a huge increase in delays on lines that currently use r46's due to mechanical issues.

What the MTA needs to do is

1. Use the base order of r211's to retire the worst performing r46's (regardless of yard), while CI keeps the best performing r46's until those get indirectly displaced by the option orders of r211.

2. During the weekends have the NQ use the r68's from the B.

Note: the media pretty much confirmed that the base order and first option order of r211's will go to the A, B, C, D. The A will get them first, then the C and then the B/D.

If that information is true, then Jamaica will only get the second option order, which may be 100% open gangway.

 

Just to be clear - 'the media' does not determine what equipment goes where, the CED (Car Equipment Division) does. Neither the nor the are confirmed to be getting R211s. They are only confirmed to be getting CBTC at this time. They can use r160s, r179s and/or r211s since all B-div. CBTC (excluding Canarsie) will be cross compatible.

 

1 hour ago, JayJay85 said:

The  can actually get R211's, if that's true then it's likely that Coney Island will used the R211's on  on Saturdays and Sunday.

The  need new trains they have the same trains for 35 years.

The needs NTTs for CBTC. Having the same trains for 35+ years is not a qualification for getting new equipment.

 

[BreeddekalbL]

Beisdes to replace the r68s how would you solve the franklin ave shuttle problem, do you order 2 car trains in the order or to standardize the order you lenghten the platform for 4 car trains

Edited March 15, 2023 by BreeddekalbL

[Comrade96]

6 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Beisdes to replace the r68s how would you solve the franklin ave shuttle problem, do you order 2 car trains in the order or to standardize the order you lenghten the platform for 4 car trains

I feel like re-lenghtening the platform to accodomate 4 60 foot cars would be best, that way you wont have fleet oddballs

[Lawrence St]

10 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Just to be clear - 'the media' does not determine what equipment goes where, the CED (Car Equipment Division) does. Neither the nor the are confirmed to be getting R211s. They are only confirmed to be getting CBTC at this time. They can use r160s, r179s and/or r211s since all B-div. CBTC (excluding Canarsie) will be cross compatible.

 

The needs NTTs for CBTC. Having the same trains for 35+ years is not a qualification for getting new equipment.

 

Isn’t  CBTC being updated to be cross compatible?

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

This would explain why the r32s were initially predicted to outlast all r38s, r40s, r42s, r44s & r46s. But even if the MTA stuck with this plan, it would not have gone well due to the constant complaints coming from riders about the SMEES. 

I recall reading many accounts about how before the r160s came, the riders complained about the r46s (long dwell times), the r32s (lack of AC), and the r42s (rust bodies). They never seemed to be satisfied with any of the equipment they had; entitlement at its finest.

The riders' complaints (about the r32s) were more valid since they got stuck with them after the retirement was put on hold.

 

riders never complained about the R46s, They were mad when the ended up losing them to the R32s. the R32s were placed on the due to the dwell times and the fact that when the was diverted to Jamaica Center, Ridership grew.

 

 

[RandomRider0101]

11 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Isn’t  CBTC being updated to be cross compatible?

That would be ideal, but I haven't heard any current plans on doing that. My guess is they might just wait until the r143 is being replaced to upgrade the CBTC system.

 

[RandomRider0101]

15 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

riders never complained about the R46s, They were mad when the ended up losing them to the R32s. the R32s were placed on the due to the dwell times and the fact that when the was diverted to Jamaica Center, Ridership grew.

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I meant to say It was line supervision (and I think politicians) that wanted the r46s off 'cause of the dwell times. This is what made the riders mad in the first place, but I still feel they're entitled.

Edited March 15, 2023 by RandomRider0101
Added another detail.

[Comrade96]

7 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Thanks for pointing that out. I meant to say It was line supervision that wanted the r46s off 'cause of the dwell times. This is what made the riders mad in the first place, but I still feel they're entitled.

this is nyc we're talking about every subway rider is entitled

[RandomRider0101]

46 minutes ago, Comrade96 said:

this is nyc we're talking about every subway rider is entitled

That's a good point. But I do feel it's worse in some areas than in others.

[subwaycommuter1983]

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

It’s incredible that you think this is based on fan logic and not common sense. We should not be retiring full fleets until the car shortage is over, PERIOD.

The R32’s got retired because of politics. You know dam well as I do the R179’s were only suppose to retire some of the worst R32’s and not all of them, and the entire R42 fleet.

Keeping the R32’s as a backup fleet does not cause delays of any sort. Where did you get that from?

The r32's had a worst breakdown rate than the r46's, which already has a terrible breakdown rate.

Subway car breakdowns cause delays. Period. And riders notice that.

[FLX9304]

20 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

There are two R211s under tarps by 39th Street

Could be 4070s or 4080s 

[Lawrence St]

27 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The r32's had a worst breakdown rate than the r46's, which already has a terrible breakdown rate.

Subway car breakdowns cause delays. Period. And riders notice that.

Uh, the amount of times I rode the R46 on the  and  and the R32's on the  say otherwise...

[Comrade96]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Uh, the amount of times I rode the R46 on the  and  and the R32's on the  say otherwise...

Thats....not how it works.

The r32s had half the MDBF the r46s have now and yes they broke down more often

[FLX9304]

As far as subway surfing is considered dangerous and these boys and girls don’t look at the ⚠️ ⛔️ that it does. He or she is playing with their own lives and their parents are gonna be the ones paying the price and the funeral arrangements because their teenage kids decided to surf on the subway. No matter how “fly” they think it is, their parents are raising them the wrong way. U surf, u 💀! Just remember that! 

[Lawrence St]

4 minutes ago, Comrade96 said:

Thats....not how it works.

The r32s had half the MDBF the r46s have now and yes they broke down more often

Um, yes it is.

If I haven't had a single breakdown on an R32 for the amount of times I ride the  on a daily basis, and always have an issue on an R46 on the , that is explanation enough.

Bottom line, the R32's are good backups, wether you like it or not.