R211 Discussion Thread

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Yes, that was what I was complaining about, but Trainmaster5 come in asking if I know what the  is, which the answer is yes.

Exactly. Not everyone in this forum is a transit worker. There are rail fans and everyday riders (who simply want better service) using this forum.

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The MTA leadership does not know how to manage money. They run the subway, buses, LIRR, MNRR and the tolls from many of the bridges and tunnels in NYC. Therefore, they make millions of dollars in revenue in addition to the billions of dollars they got from the federal government. 

Yet, they are not being transparent with riders in regards to how they are spending the money, they are falling behind in all the projects including CBTC, purchasing new subway cars, SAS, etc and they have the nerve to complain that they are "broke" and looking for dumb excuses to raise the fares.

I have pointed out that they are piss poor money managers. The LIRR was a bankrupt commuter railroad after the Pennsylvania cut them loose. The state had to fund it so the Long Island residents who commuted weren’t stranded. The city took over the Rockaway Beach branch of the railroad so those people weren’t stranded. That’s why they connected that part to the subway system . The  is solely a manager for the component parts including the TBTA. When the state and the city started cutting back on their contributions the fares were increased to cover some of the costs of the operations, not all, and that’s why the bond holders, not the governments, control the MTA economic situation. The Federal government has a national pool which contributes to country wide transportation projects, not just the  but commuter systems across the country. This includes Amtrak. If the Congress changes the majority party then the folks with their hands out like the  can be cut off completely. It’s not mandated that this is a Federal responsibility. The Metropolitan area has never fully paid for it’s transit system since the Pennsylvania, NY Central, and the New Haven left the market. The ridership doesn’t pay the full costs even today so every procurement or service increase or new construction costs will be decided by the bond holders in the long run. I’ve walked around Livonia yard back in the mid eighties and  saw that  some cars were purchased by the Port Authority . Ditch the  and any replacement agency will still be subject to the same conditions. I have intentionally mixed capital costs and operating expenses together because it seems, to me at least, that some people have no idea how this whole system is funded. My opinion. Carry on.

 

[RandomRider0101]

6 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I have pointed out that they are piss poor money managers. The LIRR was a bankrupt commuter railroad after the Pennsylvania cut them loose. The state had to fund it so the Long Island residents who commuted weren’t stranded. The city took over the Rockaway Beach branch of the railroad so those people weren’t stranded. That’s why they connected that part to the subway system . The  is solely a manager for the component parts including the TBTA. When the state and the city started cutting back on their contributions the fares were increased to cover some of the costs of the operations, not all, and that’s why the bond holders, not the governments, control the MTA economic situation. The Federal government has a national pool which contributes to country wide transportation projects, not just the  but commuter systems across the country. This includes Amtrak. If the Congress changes the majority party then the folks with their hands out like the  can be cut off completely. It’s not mandated that this is a Federal responsibility. The Metropolitan area has never fully paid for it’s transit system since the Pennsylvania, NY Central, and the New Haven left the market. The ridership doesn’t pay the full costs even today so every procurement or service increase or new construction costs will be decided by the bond holders in the long run. I’ve walked around Livonia yard back in the mid eighties and  saw that  some cars were purchased by the Port Authority . Ditch the  and any replacement agency will still be subject to the same conditions. I have intentionally mixed capital costs and operating expenses together because it seems, to me at least, that some people have no idea how this whole system is funded. My opinion. Carry on.

 

This right here is exactly what I was thinking. Many don't realize or just forget that the subway system itself existed well before the MTA did. The subway first opened in 1904; began operation in 1965. The MTA often gets the blame for all of the subway's issues, much of which is well deserved. But people have to remember that the MTA inherited an already existing mess that was present 6 decades prior to their takeover. They're not responsible for all of the subway's problems; it's just easy to place the blame entirely on them since they're the current agency that oversees the system. Many of the issues we have today have actually been building up before the MTA was even a thing, issues that were never properly dealt with or addressed. As Trainmaster5 pointed out here, replacing the MTA with another agency won't fix all the issues within the subway system. The higher-ups in the top positions must take some type of initiative in order to achieve real, meaningful change. There is plenty of blame to go around for why the subway system is in such bad shape; the orginal builders of the subway, any pre-MTA agency that ever oversaw it, the MTA, politicians, etc... you name it. In the end, all we can really do is hope for the best, that's all I'll say for now.

[JustTheSIR]

On 10/6/2022 at 4:34 PM, darkstar8983 said:

If this yard can get put into operation it could serve as a storage space for  trains, freeing up space in Jamaica, since now the yard has to accommodate the  again and has always been overcrowded, even though I’m sure the gap trains that are needed for rush hour service come from Avenue X / Coney Island Yard up the Culver Line express track as opposed to coming from 71 Av via the local tracks of QB.

Where are the G trains stored anyway? Coney Island?

[texassubwayfan555]

6 minutes ago, JustTheSIR said:

Where are the G trains stored anyway?

Jamaica Yard.

[Kamen Rider]

the G trains are based there, but can be stored in multiple places. Such as the Culver Yard section of the Coney Island Complex, the relays at Church, and the center track and unused provisional tracks at Bedford Nostrand. 

[JustTheSIR]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:04 PM, texassubwayfan555 said:

What does any one think the R211 SIR announcements will sound like? Subway style or LIRR/MNRR style?

“This is a [Tottenville] bound, local train. the next stop is [Dongan Hills]”

and maybe

”This is a [Great Kills] bound, express train. The next (and last stop) is [Great Kills]”

[Kamen Rider]

They are going to need to record 90% of the 211S’s announcements from scratch.

they could make them just about anything.

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, Kamen Rider said:

They are going to need to record 90% of the 211S’s announcements from scratch.

 

What makes you say that? IF they recorded SIR announcements back when they did the A & B div announcements all they have do is an patch job deleting the two closed stations and add Author Kill Road and the S79 SBS transfer.

 

 

If they didn't record SIR R211 announcements until recently... Personally I hope the new lady that does the PSA announcements on the mainline NTT does the station to station announcements on the SIR with Charlie still doing the "Stand clear of the closing doors" announcement.

 

 

EDIT: The new lady name is Velina Mitchell 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by trainfan22

[texassubwayfan555]

That picture makes me wonder about what equipment is used to record announcements and add them to the program on the trains.

15 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

IF they recorded SIR announcements back when they did the A & B div announcements

I meant to ask that earlier as I also don't know if they did that.

16 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Charlie still doing the "Stand clear of the closing doors" announcement

They better keep that. Imagine the outrage among transit fans if they changed it.

[RandomRider0101]

3 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

What makes you say that? IF they recorded SIR announcements back when they did the A & B div announcements all they have do is an patch job deleting the two closed stations and add Author Kill Road and the S79 SBS transfer.

 

 

If they didn't record SIR R211 announcements until recently... Personally I hope the new lady that does the PSA announcements on the mainline NTT does the station to station announcements on the SIR with Charlie still doing the "Stand clear of the closing doors" announcement.

 

 

EDIT: The new lady name is Velina Mitchell 

 

 

3 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

That picture makes me wonder about what equipment is used to record announcements and add them to the program on the trains.

I meant to ask that earlier as I also don't know if they did that.

They better keep that. Imagine the outrage among transit fans if they changed it.

I'm assuming they recorded all possible anouncements prior to the first NTTs hitting service. I also thought the same thing about how the announcements would sound. 

There are Youtube videos showing the announcements playing from the train, and it's essentially the same ones we already have now. Charlie Pellett's closing door announcement is still there; I'm pretty sure it will be on SIR as well.

Keep in mind that anything is subject to change, but do expect most things to stay the same (for now).

Edited October 12, 2022 by RandomRider0101

[RandomRider0101]

BTW, the R211A is currently scheduled to start its 30-day revenue test next month in November; the first R211T pilot is scheduled to arrive sometime this month, with the second one coming in December.

I haven't seen an actual source stating that the deadlines have been pushed back again, so maybe we'll see some real progress this time.

[texassubwayfan555]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

R211T

I think everyone almost forgot about these cars when the R211A test train arrived. Hopefully they are a success, it will be cool to see NYC finally get open gangway cars, a feature seen on worldwide transit systems for decades. (The MTR M-Train was built with them way back in 1977)

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

I think everyone almost forgot about these cars when the R211A test train arrived. Hopefully they are a success, it will be cool to see NYC finally get open gangway cars, a feature seen on worldwide transit systems for decades. (The MTR M-Train was built with them way back in 1977)

Alot of people were actually expecting the R211T to come at that time, even though it was specified that standard trains would make up the vast majority of the base order; and that the open gangway would be tested in the base order.

People outside the railfan community didn't really know this, which is why they were confused as to why they weren't seeing an open gangway. I've regulary seen Youtube comments from people asking 'where is the open gangway', and railfans had to explain to them that it's arriving later as a test train.

Anyways, I'm excited for the open gangway as well; definitely a welcome change in my book.

[trainfan22]

4 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

I think everyone almost forgot about these cars when the R211A test train arrived. Hopefully they are a success, it will be cool to see NYC finally get open gangway cars, a feature seen on worldwide transit systems for decades. (The MTR M-Train was built with them way back in 1977)

NYC already had open gangway cars years ago, the BMT D Types..

 

[texassubwayfan555]

Wow, I never knew that. Also, there used to be ceiling fans in subway trains?

[RandomRider0101]

45 minutes ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Wow, I never knew that. Also, there used to be ceiling fans in subway trains?

Yes; before they had AC, all subway cars had ceiling fans back then.

Edited October 18, 2022 by RandomRider0101

[Kamen Rider]

12 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Wow, I never knew that. Also, there used to be ceiling fans in subway trains?

We also had the C types, which are closer to the "Gangway" trains the 211Ts will be. They were rebuilt El cars.

The D Types and other cars of it's era were articulated. That round spot is actually resting on the motor truck, taking the weight of both sides

[RandomRider0101]

5 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

We also had the C types, which are closer to the "Gangway" trains the 211Ts will be. They were rebuilt El cars.

The D Types and other cars of it's era were articulated. That round spot is actually resting on the motor truck, taking the weight of both sides

Yea, the concept was tested before; it just wasn't made the standard for whatever reason back then.

[Kamen Rider]

Saw her today. Half the pilot train is in the inspection barn at Coney Island and the other half is parked outside on the west side of the building. As I was passing on the N both times I could not see numbers.

[RandomRider0101]

13 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Saw her today. Half the pilot train is in the inspection barn at Coney Island and the other half is parked outside on the west side of the building. As I was passing on the N both times I could not see numbers.

Hmm👀

[texassubwayfan555]

6 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Hmm👀

What?

[Trainmaster5]

22 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Yea, the concept was tested before; it just wasn't made the standard for whatever reason back then.

We had the Triplexes on the Brighton line, especially during the weekdays, until we started getting the R32 equipment on the line. BMT Standards on the local back then in my youth. I was told in school car way back early 80’s that single car consists were preferable. If you have a bad car on a Triplex or a NTT it means either 3,4, or 5 cars must be substituted but single car replacement is much easier to do. My teaching back then. Carry on.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Trainmaster5

[RandomRider0101]

10 minutes ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

What?

Just wondering what's next, possibly burn-in testing?

[RandomRider0101]

1 minute ago, Trainmaster5 said:

We had the Triplexes on the Brighton line, especially during the weekdays, until we started getting the R32 equipment on the line. BMT Standards on the local back then. I was told in school car way back then that single car consists were preferable. If you have a bad car on a Triplex or a NTT it means either 3,4, or 5 cars must be substituted but single car replacement is much easier to do. My teaching back then. Carry on.

Interesting fact. That does make sense for operational flexibility; just like they later decided to go with configured sets for easier maintenance. 

So ultimately it comes down to what is seen as the priority at the time. Back then, it was single sets for operational flexiblity; now it's configured sets for easier maintenance. Since they decided to go with configured sets, it makes sense that they're testing open gangways now. It will definitely make things easier for passengers.

Thanks for sharing, Trainmaster