R211 Discussion Thread

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, Vulturious said:

And this will be yet another expense the  has to pay for with money they never seem to have. Couldn't have come at a worse time.

Edited September 22, 2022 by RandomRider0101

[texassubwayfan555]

When will the R211 sets start to arrive? We still only have two test sets (enough for a full 10 car train), but who says other sets cant be delivered while these two are testing.

[trainfan22]

26 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

And this will be yet another expense the  has to pay for with money they never seem to have. Couldn't have come at a worse time.

Trains get tagged all the time, I would imagine cleaning graffiti off of this train would be an drop in the bucket expense wise..

 

What do you mean this couldn't happen at an worst time? An TA employee will wash off the graffiti and the train would be available for testing again. It's not really an big deal. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by trainfan22

[Bill from Maspeth]

35 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

And this will be yet another expense the  has to pay for with money they never seem to have. Couldn't have come at a worse time.

They have car cleaners.  And this is a very easy cleanup.

[Bill from Maspeth]

14 minutes ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

When will the R211 sets start to arrive? We still only have two test sets (enough for a full 10 car train), but who says other sets cant be delivered while these two are testing.

Unknown.  Not known.

Yes, we know.

That's what the contract states.   They (MTA/NYCT) don't want more than 10 cars on the property till they know these won't have to be "returned to sender", just like what happened to the first 10 cars of the R179 order. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

3 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

They have car cleaners.  And this is a very easy cleanup.

Still sucks to see a brand new train get tagged before it’s even entered service. And I know it’s not the first time, but it still sucks to see it.

[Bill from Maspeth]

5 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Still sucks to see a brand new train get tagged before it’s even entered service. And I know it’s not the first time, but it still sucks to see it.

Call me a hard ass but in my 33 years career at NYCT, I'd like to say I've heard and seen it all.

Sure it sucks to see it tagged before it has entered service, but once any piece of equipment is placed on NYCT tracks, all bets are off as far as vandalism is concerned.  Even if an employee saw the deed being done, all he can do is report it, he will not risk his personal safety in chasing or apprehending the culprits.  Police will be called.  But guess what?  By the time police show up, the culprits are long gone.  Plus even if the culprits are still there, the cops will not go on the tracks unless power is off.

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

Trains get tagged all the time, I would imagine cleaning graffiti off of this train would be an drop in the bucket expense wise..

 

What do you mean this couldn't happen at an worst time? An TA employee will wash off the graffiti and the train would be available for testing again. It's not really an big deal. 

 

1 hour ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

They have car cleaners.  And this is a very easy cleanup.

Fair enough. I guess I reacted too fast and chose my words incorrectly. 

The reason I said these things is because AFAIK, it cost money to clean cars everytime a tagging incident occurs;

And being that we're talking about an agency that's always crying broke, that's why I made as big of a deal as I did of the situation. 

The truth is it's not a big deal right now since the cars are not yet in service. 

So again, my apologies for overreacting.

On the other hand, if it's so easy to clean cars, why do so many cars look like they haven't been cleaned in years? Kind of a rhetorical question, but an answer would still be appreciated.

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

Trains get tagged all the time, I would imagine cleaning graffiti off of this train would be an drop in the bucket expense wise..

 

What do you mean this couldn't happen at an worst time? An TA employee will wash off the graffiti and the train would be available for testing again. It's not really an big deal. 

 

1 hour ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

They have car cleaners.  And this is a very easy cleanup.

Fair enough. I guess I reacted too fast and chose my words incorrectly. 

The reason I said these things is because AFAIK, it cost money to clean cars everytime a tagging incident occurs;

And being that we're talking about an agency that's always crying broke, that's why I made as big of a deal as I did of the situation. 

The truth is it's not a big deal right now since the cars are not yet in service. 

So again, my apologies for overreacting.

On the other hand, if it's so easy to clean cars, why do so many cars look like they haven't been cleaned in years? Kind of a rhetorical question, but an answer would still be appreciated.

[RandomRider0101]

My response posted twice. Sorry about that, it was unintentional.

[subwaycommuter1983]

4 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

And this will be yet another expense the  has to pay for with money they never seem to have. Couldn't have come at a worse time.

I'm more concerned about the subway conquesting that has been affecting the r46's, r62's, r68's. The most alarming part is that it seems that teens may be involved in this issue that is hurting service on lines that use these subway cars: 1, 3, 6, A, B, C, D, N, Q, W.

If teens are involved in subway conquesting, then those teens and their parents need to be held accountable.

[RandomRider0101]

5 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I'm more concerned about the subway conquesting that has been affecting the r46's, r62's, r68's. The most alarming part is that it seems that teens may be involved in this issue that is hurting service on lines that use these subway cars: 1, 3, 6, A, B, C, D, N, Q, W.

If teens are involved in subway conquesting, then those teens and their parents need to be held accountable.

My response was based on how the MTA is always complaining they don't have enough money. Add a pandemic to that, and it makes things like 10X worse.

But you're right though; subway conquesting/surfing (whatever you wanna call it) is definitely a more serious concern as it pertains to safety. Now if they ran a fully graffitied train in service, that would be just as much if not more of a safety issue (I know this would never happen in this day & age).

These issues can affect any subway car. Is there any particular reason you named the old techs? Are they easier to break into than the New Techs?

[darkstar8983]

2 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

My response was based on how the MTA is always complaining they don't have enough money. Add a pandemic to that, and it makes things like 10X worse.

But you're right though; subway conquesting/surfing (whatever you wanna call it) is definitely a more serious concern as it pertains to safety. Now if they ran a fully graffitied train in service, that would be just as much if not more of a safety issue (I know this would never happen in this day & age).

These issues can affect any subway car. Is there any particular reason you named the old techs? Are they easier to break into than the New Techs?

It goes back to the broken windows theory of policing- if you don’t fix something, you show disinterest in wanting it fixed so you invite vandals to do it again. As for responsibility; yes I would say soon as the vandals are caught, give them time in jail AND send them the bill for what it took to repair / wash the train. And that’s not cheap.

[subwaycommuter1983]

7 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

My response was based on how the MTA is always complaining they don't have enough money. Add a pandemic to that, and it makes things like 10X worse.

But you're right though; subway conquesting/surfing (whatever you wanna call it) is definitely a more serious concern as it pertains to safety. Now if they ran a fully graffitied train in service, that would be just as much if not more of a safety issue (I know this would never happen in this day & age).

These issues can affect any subway car. Is there any particular reason you named the old techs? Are they easier to break into than the New Techs?

The older techs are more vulnerable. Many of these vandals have been destroying rollsigns and getting into cab doors making unprofessional announcements. Some TA workers have been attacked by these vandals.

[texassubwayfan555]

The MTA should invest in securing the old techs to reduce all this stupid conquesting.

[trainfan22]

Funny how this convo came up these past couple of posts. I JUST got off an R179 where boy who looked be in his early teens kept going in and out the cab in the last car playing with the horn. 

 

 

Transfered to Broadway line the R46 rollsign is signed up as the in the first car (it's an train)

[RandomRider0101]

8 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

It goes back to the broken windows theory of policing- if you don’t fix something, you show disinterest in wanting it fixed so you invite vandals to do it again. As for responsibility; yes I would say soon as the vandals are caught, give them time in jail AND send them the bill for what it took to repair / wash the train. And that’s not cheap.

This is basically what I was trying to say in my initial post. Two other posters (one being an MTA employee) told me it was easy & inexpensive to wash the cars when graffiti/vandalism happens, which made me feel like I overreacted.

Either way, I still see it as an inconvenience as it takes time and effort to wash cars, even with a car wash.

[RandomRider0101]

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The older techs are more vulnerable. Many of these vandals have been destroying rollsigns and getting into cab doors making unprofessional announcements. Some TA workers have been attacked by these vandals.

Yeah I figured. I've actually seen some videos of this wild crazy stuff happening.

3 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

The MTA should invest in securing the old techs to reduce all this stupid conquesting.

The MTA is cheap; They more than likely won't do this, especially since most of the old techs are expected to be gone in a matter of years.

[RandomRider0101]

22 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

When will the R211 sets start to arrive? We still only have two test sets (enough for a full 10 car train), but who says other sets cant be delivered while these two are testing.

To add on to what Bill said, the first ten R211As have to go through a full testing process before any further cars can be delivered. 

This is standard procedure here to identify any major issues that may be present on the cars, & fix them to ensure they have as smooth of an introduction as possible. 

The R179s failed miserably because they cheated the revenue test and were rushed into service. They're doing better now, but they still have a long way to go. The first SMS should take care of this.

[darkstar8983]

6 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

To add on to what Bill said, the first ten R211As have to go through a full testing process before any further cars can be delivered. 

This is standard procedure here to identify any major issues that may be present on the cars, & fix them to ensure they have as smooth of an introduction as possible. 

The R179s failed miserably because they cheated the revenue test and were rushed into service. They're doing better now, but they still have a long way to go. The first SMS should take care of this.

I think the only cars that passed their 30 day tests on round 1 were the R188s for the  line. All the other cars had setbacks in their 30 day tests

R143 - I think there were some issues on the

R142 - many issues on the  line and saw spotty service in the beginning

R142A - not sure how it was with the

R160A - damaged shells of 8660 and 8655 needed to be replaced, then ran on the  for its acceptance testing.

R160B - 30 day acceptance test on the  failed on day 2 due to failing motors (first motor failed on the FIRST TRIP), the transferred to the  after repairs.

R179 - braking issues if I’m not mistaken when testing on the , and don’t forget when 3010-3014 had to be sent back to Bombardier

[Around the Horn]

On 9/22/2022 at 6:14 PM, texassubwayfan555 said:

When will the R211 sets start to arrive? We still only have two test sets (enough for a full 10 car train), but who says other sets cant be delivered while these two are testing.

They'll give the go ahead for Kawasaki to ship production cars after the pilot set passes its 30 day test

[RandomRider0101]

12 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

I think the only cars that passed their 30 day tests on round 1 were the R188s for the  line. All the other cars had setbacks in their 30 day tests

R143 - I think there were some issues on the

R142 - many issues on the  line and saw spotty service in the beginning

R142A - not sure how it was with the

R160A - damaged shells of 8660 and 8655 needed to be replaced, then ran on the  for its acceptance testing.

R160B - 30 day acceptance test on the  failed on day 2 due to failing motors (first motor failed on the FIRST TRIP), the transferred to the  after repairs.

R179 - braking issues if I’m not mistaken when testing on the , and don’t forget when 3010-3014 had to be sent back to Bombardier

The R188 was largely based on an already-proven design - the R142A (minus the CBTC of course), so that's not really surprising.

Every subway car has early teething issues, some more than others (especially these days when the building process of a railcar is much more complex in general).

This is why it is important to properly test all subway cars before just throwing them in service. Identifying the issues early on and correcting them immediately will save the headaches that will come eventually.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

The R188 was largely based on an already-proven design - the R142A (minus the CBTC of course), so that's not really surprising.

Every subway car has early teething issues, some more than others (especially these days when the building process of a railcar is much more complex in general).

This is why it is important to properly test all subway cars before just throwing them in service. Identifying the issues early on and correcting them immediately will save the headaches that will come eventually.

This is why the MTA should not wait until old subway cars are falling apart before they purchase new subway cars. The R262's and replacement orders for the r68's should have been included in this capital program.

It takes years to build, deliver and test new subway cars.

The r62's and r68's are in good shape now, but will they be in good shape 5 years from now??

It costs money to buy new subway cars, but it also cost a lot of money to maintain old subway cars.

[RandomRider0101]

23 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This is why the MTA should not wait until old subway cars are falling apart before they purchase new subway cars. The R262's and replacement orders for the r68's should have been included in this capital program.

It takes years to build, deliver and test new subway cars.

The r62's and r68's are in good shape now, but will they be in good shape 5 years from now??

It costs money to buy new subway cars, but it also cost a lot of money to maintain old subway cars.

100% on point.

I do believe the R62/As & R68/As will still be in good shape structually, since everything is now all-stainless steel + fiberglass.

Will they still be in good shape mechanically? I would hope so. If the R46s can hold it together until their retirement, I would be more than confident in the R62/As & R68/As. I'm already very confident as they were done better than the R46s.

Edited September 24, 2022 by RandomRider0101

[texassubwayfan555]

7 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

The R262's and replacement orders for the r68's should have been included in this capital program.

The r62's and r68's are in good shape now, but will they be in good shape 5 years from now??

I agree with you. But I think in typical MTA fashion, they will wait until both car types are falling apart to order replacements.