R211 Discussion Thread

[Amiri the subway guy]

Just now, texassubwayfan555 said:

The R68/A’s are not going to be retired soon, as they still have about 10 years of useful life left, and are more reliable than the R46. It has also been discussed that even with all the options, the R211’s will not be enough to replace the R68/A’s.

Well I meant would it be worth keeping that many subway cars R68s 625 + R160s 1662 + R211s 1612 will their even be enough room for that many cars further more CBTC is limiting where SMEEs could go by 2027 the MTA wants all NTT

[Amiri the subway guy]

8 minutes ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

The R68/A’s are not going to be retired soon, as they still have about 10 years of useful life left, and are more reliable than the R46. It has also been discussed that even with all the options, the R211’s will not be enough to replace the R68/A’s.

PS 940 R211s replace 752 R46s and 672 R211s replace 625 R68/As

[LGA Link N Train]

On 9/30/2022 at 1:35 PM, Bill from Maspeth said:

Yes, internally (inside the agency), I have heard the  term "Service Delivery".  Keep in mind the agency pays a lot of money to those individuals who think of these fancy terminologies!

Not Surprising there. Although having joined the Signals Department (as a helper) not too long ago, I've only heard my maintainers and supervisors still refer to RTO as such whenever they're mentioned.

...although coming to think of it, I think I've heard some of 'em say "Service Delivery" once or twice...

18 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Not really enough cars if you factor in the line with half of it still being 8 cars. It'll be dumb to still run mixed length trains on the with R179s and 10 car R211s.

Unfortanately thats a problem that we'll just have to leave be for the time being. As far as I'm concerned, 8th Avenue will have mostly NTT's by that point so there would be no reason to delay 8th Avenue and Fulton CBTC any further than what already has been done.

13 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

By my (rough) calculations, the would require the first 115 cars of option 1 to become 100% ten car trains. The remainder of option 1 and option 2 can then displace R68s on the to the and R160s on the to the (to then move over its R68/As), with additional cars for fleet expansion at all 3 yards. The R179s from the and the 4 car R211 sets in option 2 can then bolster the fleet.

I'm interested as to how you did the math for the getting 10 car trains, but working off of that, you'd need at least 335-350 R-211's from the first Option Order to displace the R-68's currently assigned to Concourse. That'd leave you with about 175-190 cars left from the first Option order (580-595 cars from the 2nd Option Order not counting the 4 car sets meant for ENY) to place where ever the deems where they're needed most. 

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, LGA Link N Train said:

Not Surprising there. Although having joined the Signals Department (as a helper) not too long ago, I've only heard my maintainers and supervisors still refer to RTO as such whenever they're mentioned.

...although coming to think of it, I think I've heard some of 'em say "Service Delivery" once or twice...

Unfortanately thats a problem that we'll just have to leave be for the time being. As far as I'm concerned, 8th Avenue will have mostly NTT's by that point so there would be no reason to delay 8th Avenue and Fulton CBTC any further than what already has been done.

I'm interested as to how you did the math for the getting 10 car trains, but working off of that, you'd need at least 335-350 R-211's from the first Option Order to displace the R-68's currently assigned to Concourse. That'd leave you with about 175-190 cars left from the first Option order (580-595 cars from the 2nd Option Order not counting the 4 car sets meant for ENY) to place where ever the deems where they're needed most. 

That sound about right:

Base order - kills off all Pitkin R46s -460 cars (essentially takes care of the  fleet

option order 1 - 160 cars takes care of the  fleet and Rockaway Park Shuttle, along with R179 10-car units now Interchangeable between the , but CBTC can start with just the base order, since the 8-car R179s can be used in the interim. 400 cars for Concourse for the  train and anticipated service increases. All 8-car R179s shift to ENY.

so far - 1020 cars assigned

 

option order 2 (and end of option 1)

350 cars to Jamaica for the  and shifts lower numbered R160s to Coney Island for the , due to higher ridership on QB than CPW/Brighton. 
 

so far - 1370 cars of 1500 cars to be assigned

The extra 130 cars of NYC Subway R211s can be used to bolster the fleet of Lines assigned the new cars.

R211s to the  

R160s to the  

Or they could just keep things simple and leave Jamaica with all R160s and all Central Park West line cars with R211s. The fleet increase could also move the R179s to Jamaica since R179s will also be CBTC equipped and increase the spare factor. Generation 1 CBTC cars could be in Jamaica, also allowing for possibility of R179 trains and more fleet interchangeability between ENY routes, with Generation 2 R211 cars would be part of Central Park West, assigned 207 St, Pitkin, and Concourse Yards.

 

or do the following:

not give Staten Island the R211, and instead send R68A cars, with the mainline R68/R68A cars assigned to the  / , and the remaining roughly now 210 cars of R211s to be delivered bring sent to Jamaica and send 210 R160s for the . Some slight R211 movements between Pitkin, Concourse and Jamaica would occur to free up a couple more R160s to cover spare factors.

an earlier post suggested 6th Av CBTC will be starting in this capital program and it is not known whether a new order of subway cars will be ready on property for CBTC, so you could just right away have the  with a CBTC ready fleet due to interchangeability of how the  operates in Manhattan. The  can reach its north / south terminals through either 6 Av or Broadway, joining the IND in flexible midtown manhattan reroutes, leaving the  as the only routes incapable of doing so.

 

just keep in mind that IF and ONLY IF there are enough spare NTT cars for any Broadway Line to have a few sets here and there, the MTA will likely assign them to the  long as the  sticks around. Only my plan in the “no R211s for Staten Island” proposal would shift those new cars to the , or a discontinuation of the .

Edited October 1, 2022 by darkstar8983

[RandomRider0101]

20 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Not really enough cars if you factor in the line with half of it still being 8 cars. It'll be dumb to still run mixed length trains on the with R179s and 10 car R211s.

 

20 hours ago, Vulturious said:

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be seeing the  not being mixed length trains any time soon. I would assume it's going to stay like that until the order options of the R211's come in. 

 

19 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

They can figure it out by the time most of the base order is in. CBTC won't be active until the at least 25% of the option order cars come in. They might keep a good chunk of R46s to make the 100% full length until the option order cars come replace those cars,

 

Also no one is factoring that if congestion pricing does become a thing in 2023, They really can't retire the R46s until they have more than enough cars to keep up with the potential demand in ridership if this were to take place. R211s aren't going to come in very fast and are already delayed.

Another alternative solution to the mixed-length  issue could be to combine the R179 4 & 5 car sets to make 9-car trains; this would be temporary.

Then once there is enough R211s from option 1 in service, gradually displace those 4-car sets until the  is 100% full length.

One possibility I thought of that could happen.

 

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Here’s what I believe should happen. The main order will go on the  the R179 8 cars sets will go to the   But the R179 19 car will stay with the  the  will be fully R211 all  R46s will be scrapped. The  options order will than go the  and sending the R179s to the   After that the other option order will be for the  displacing the R160s to the  all remaining R46s and 80%-90% of all R68s and R68As will be scrapped. The R211 open gangway will be sent to the  first. The   gets R160s. The little small amounts of R68s R68As  will be kept for emergency spares in the event of R211s breakdown but when the R211s are proofed to be realible R68s R68As will be scrapped. Any thoughts 

 

3 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Well I meant would it be worth keeping that many subway cars R68s 625 + R160s 1662 + R211s 1612 will their even be enough room for that many cars further more CBTC is limiting where SMEEs could go by 2027 the MTA wants all NTT

 

3 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

PS 940 R211s replace 752 R46s and 672 R211s replace 625 R68/As

Who said that the R211s were replacing the R68/As? The R211s are for fleet replacement AND fleet expansion.

The MTA won't meet the goal of all NTT by 2027. The actual R68/A replacement would still be a few years away.

[Around the Horn]

10 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said:

I'm interested as to how you did the math for the getting 10 car trains, but working off of that, you'd need at least 335-350 R-211's from the first Option Order to displace the R-68's currently assigned to Concourse. That'd leave you with about 175-190 cars left from the first Option order (580-595 cars from the 2nd Option Order not counting the 4 car sets meant for ENY) to place where ever the deems where they're needed most. 

Assuming 1:1 replacement of R46s on both the and , that leaves 92 R179s assigned to the , which divided by 8 is 11.5; 11.5 times 10 is 115. By that same method, 268 R68s at Concourse divided by 8 is 33.5; 33.5 times 10 is 335.

The is a little trickier but assuming a similar spare factor as the (268/232=1.16), 6 trains of R68s + 19 trains of R68As is 25 trains times 1.16 is 29 trains, and we can round that up to a nice even 30 trains and 300 cars, cascading R160s from Jamaica. Of course with the trains set aside in the R211 options for fleet expansion, I'd expect all three yards (Concourse, Pitkin and Jamaica) to have more cars; these are just minimum figures.

[R32 3838]

22 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said:

 

Unfortanately thats a problem that we'll just have to leave be for the time being. As far as I'm concerned, 8th Avenue will have mostly NTT's by that point so there would be no reason to delay 8th Avenue and Fulton CBTC any further than what already has been done.

 

 

Nope it would have to be solved a lot sooner if congestion pricing is a go. You can't have 300 foot trains and mixed length trains running when ridership is expected to increase when this happens. If they start this in 2023 then the would still need the R46s until the option order cars start replacing them. The 8 car R179s would have to be pushed out to ENY (by then they should be CBTC equipped meaning they can run on the ). The ENY R160s that are displaced by the R179s would go to Jamaica for increased service (8 car trains). Jamaica could then send 90 to 110 R160Bs to Pitkin or 207th for the to be full length. After the Base order is complete, 48 R46s would remain (16-24 cars would be used out of the 48) until the option order cars displace the remaining R46s. The 130 10 car R179s would be at 207th instead of pitkin.

 

I would have the 20 R211Ts at Jamaica

 

put themselves in a mess when they decided to retire the remaining R32s out of left field since now the   is mixed length as well as making the R179 order mostly 8 car units.

Edited October 2, 2022 by R32 3838

[darkstar8983]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

Nope it would have to be solved a lot sooner if congestion pricing is a go. You can't have 300 foot trains and mixed length trains running when ridership is expected to increase when this happens. If they start this in 2023 then the would still need the R46s until the option order cars start replacing them. The 8 car R179s would have to be pushed out to ENY (by then they should be CBTC equipped meaning they can run on the ). The ENY R160s that are displaced by the R179s would go to Jamaica for increased service (8 car trains). Jamaica could then send 90 to 110 R160Bs to Pitkin or 207th for the to be full length. After the Base order is complete, 48 R46s would remain (16-24 cars would be used out of the 48) until the option order cars displace the remaining R46s. The 130 10 car R179s would be at 207th instead of pitkin.

 

I would have the 20 R211Ts at Jamaica

 

put themselves in a mess when they decided to retire the remaining R32s out of left field since now the   is mixed length as well as making the R179 order mostly 8 car units.

@R32 3838 Oh no! In my last post, I forgot about the 8-car  train possibility, when I was talking about ensuring an increased spare factor for the NTT routes with the remaining option orders of R211s. My concern is that the MTA may leave the 8-car  trains to the R68 replacement order UNLESS they re-adjust the configuration of R211 cars to have more 4-car sets, so that way, more 4-car R211s can be constructed in lieu of 5-car sets. The current R211 order only allows for 8 4-car sets to be built, and the current R179 fleet (assuming the transfer to ENY happens), will only ensure that the  routes have an adequate spare factor of 8 trains each since:

212 R143 = 26 trains for the  (208 cars)

372 R160A-1 = 8 trains for the  (64 cars) + 32 trains for the (256 cars) + 6 trains for the  (48 cars)

188 R179 cars = 23 trains for the  (184 cars)

(these assignments already account for the spare factors needed, and remember that the and  are probably set for service increases again and the availability of 4-car sets for 8-car trains is at a premium.) The R211 cars (32 cars set for 4-car arrangements) would just top off ENY yard for any requirements for the future, but wouldn't be enough to swap out the 5-car R160s on the  for 8-car ones and give an adequate spare factor, especially with CBTC concerned, unless you propose reducing service on the to accommodate it. If that happens, then clearly the MTA did not learn their lesson from the R143 order for the  , thinking that 212 cars were going to be enough yet "was already considered by 2006 too small to handle the ridership boom in the neighborhoods served by the line". The only way I see it happening is:

212 R143 = 26 trains for the  (208 cars)

372 R160A-1 = 31 trains for the  (248 cars), 2 trains for the  (16 cars), 13 trains for the  (104 cars). The spare factor for the  can be shard with the , since currently the 's R160s are really intermeshed with the  so that way the  each have a spare factor of 7 trains.

188 R179 cars = 23 trains for the  = (184 cars)

32 R211 = 4 trains for the  (32 cars)

**The Canarsie CBTC R160s would need to be upgraded to run on QB to increase fleet flexibility and it would be contingent on the R179s being able to run on Queens Blvd and be maintained in Jamaica with the R160s. This way the  and  will also have a spare factor of 7 trains each, and the  can continue to have a spare factor of 5 trains. The only caveat here again is the fact that there can't be ANY service increase of any kind on the  lines until the next order unless the R211 order is either adjusted for more 4-car sets, or service reductions on one of these routes to accomodate increases on the other.

Edited October 2, 2022 by darkstar8983

[subwaycommuter1983]

22 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

@R32 3838 Oh no! In my last post, I forgot about the 8-car  train possibility, when I was talking about ensuring an increased spare factor for the NTT routes with the remaining option orders of R211s. My concern is that the MTA may leave the 8-car  trains to the R68 replacement order UNLESS they re-adjust the configuration of R211 cars to have more 4-car sets, so that way, more 4-car R211s can be constructed in lieu of 5-car sets. The current R211 order only allows for 8 4-car sets to be built, and the current R179 fleet (assuming the transfer to ENY happens), will only ensure that the  routes have an adequate spare factor of 8 trains each since:

212 R143 = 26 trains for the  (208 cars)

372 R160A-1 = 8 trains for the  (64 cars) + 32 trains for the (256 cars) + 6 trains for the  (48 cars)

188 R179 cars = 23 trains for the  (184 cars)

(these assignments already account for the spare factors needed, and remember that the and  are probably set for service increases again and the availability of 4-car sets for 8-car trains is at a premium.) The R211 cars (32 cars set for 4-car arrangements) would just top off ENY yard for any requirements for the future, but wouldn't be enough to swap out the 5-car R160s on the  for 8-car ones and give an adequate spare factor, especially with CBTC concerned, unless you propose reducing service on the to accommodate it. If that happens, then clearly the MTA did not learn their lesson from the R143 order for the  , thinking that 212 cars were going to be enough yet "was already considered by 2006 too small to handle the ridership boom in the neighborhoods served by the line". The only way I see it happening is:

212 R143 = 26 trains for the  (208 cars)

372 R160A-1 = 31 trains for the  (248 cars), 2 trains for the  (16 cars), 13 trains for the  (104 cars). The spare factor for the  can be shard with the , since currently the 's R160s are really intermeshed with the  so that way the  each have a spare factor of 7 trains.

188 R179 cars = 23 trains for the  = (184 cars)

32 R211 = 4 trains for the  (32 cars)

**The Canarsie CBTC R160s would need to be upgraded to run on QB to increase fleet flexibility and it would be contingent on the R179s being able to run on Queens Blvd and be maintained in Jamaica with the R160s. This way the  and  will also have a spare factor of 7 trains each, and the  can continue to have a spare factor of 5 trains. The only caveat here again is the fact that there can't be ANY service increase of any kind on the  lines until the next order unless the R211 order is either adjusted for more 4-car sets, or service reductions on one of these routes to accomodate increases on the other.

The J needs to be adjusted. It can be done by eliminating the Z and the skip-stop service. The Z is a useless line just like the 9. Ridership on the J is not as high in comparison to the L and G.

[trainfan22]

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The J needs to be adjusted. It can be done by eliminating the Z and the skip-stop service. The Z is a useless line just like the 9. Ridership on the J is not as high in comparison to the L and G.

You are wrong about the being useless. I use to be an commuter on the J/Z during it's time of operation and it's a legit time saver. 

 

You really think the has higher ridership than the ? I highly doubt that's true.

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

You are wrong about the being useless. I use to be an commuter on the J/Z during it's time of operation and it's a legit time saver. 

 

You really think the has higher ridership than the ? I highly doubt that's true.

I don't buy that either....that's a stretch.

[R32 3838]

4 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The J needs to be adjusted. It can be done by eliminating the Z and the skip-stop service. The Z is a useless line just like the 9. Ridership on the J is not as high in comparison to the L and G.

 

Nah the has a lot more ridership than the . The ridership is decent but growing but not on the level like the lines. And again the is not useless, People who say that don't ride it daily.  The is a good help for the Jamaica line. The didn't skip as much and was pointless, The isn't the same.

[LGA Link N Train]

4 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The J needs to be adjusted. It can be done by eliminating the Z and the skip-stop service. The Z is a useless line just like the 9. Ridership on the J is not as high in comparison to the L and G.

Used to commute on the  back in High School and while I’m not a fan of Skip Stop service, the main issue with it is that the duration in which it runs is not long enough. This applies for both the AM and PM Rush Hours. As for the , while ridership has been increasing on that line for the past Several Years now, I don’t think we should screw over one rider base in favor of another.

[subwaycommuter1983]

5 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

You are wrong about the being useless. I use to be an commuter on the J/Z during it's time of operation and it's a legit time saver. 

 

You really think the has higher ridership than the ? I highly doubt that's true.

The problem with skip-stop service is that riders that ride the JZ between Sutphin Boulevard–JFK and Myrtle Avenue-Broadway experience longer wait times during rush hours than during off peak, which doesn't make sense. It should be the opposite.

At least the 1 is more reliable now than when the 9 was running.

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said:

Used to commute on the  back in High School and while I’m not a fan of Skip Stop service, the main issue with it is that the duration in which it runs is not long enough. This applies for both the AM and PM Rush Hours. As for the , while ridership has been increasing on that line for the past Several Years now, I don’t think we should screw over one rider base in favor of another.

 

35 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The problem with skip-stop service is that riders that ride the JZ between Sutphin Boulevard–JFK and Myrtle Avenue-Broadway experience longer wait times during rush hours than during off peak, which doesn't make sense. It should be the opposite.

At least the 1 is more reliable now than when the 9 was running.

I agree, not the biggest fan of skip-stop service. It should be dropped in favor of peak direction express service (if it is possible at the 3-track stations).

Skip-Stop service only benefits those at stations served by both lines during rush hours. Those at single-line stations have to wait 10+ minutes; and if there is a missing train or a gap in service, the wait is even longer.

Maybe the  doesn't need to be eliminated completely, but the skip stop pattern has to go.

[Lex]

I was going to have a long post about skip-stop service, but all I will say is that I have a hard time imagining the MTA will try to maintain it for too much longer. Hell, the fact that all trains stop at Alabama Avenue -- one of the weakest stations -- is, to me, a sign that skip-stop subway service in NYC is not long for this world.

Anyway, I think that's enough about that. I'd argue we're beginning to derail the thread.

[GojiMet86]

3 hours ago, Lex said:

I was going to have a long post about skip-stop service, but all I will say is that I have a hard time imagining the MTA will try to maintain it for too much longer. Hell, the fact that all trains stop at Alabama Avenue -- one of the weakest stations -- is, to me, a sign that skip-stop subway service in NYC is not long for this world.

Anyway, I think that's enough about that. I'd argue we're beginning to derail the thread.

I heard Alabama had been added for the workers at ENY Yard and the depot.

[Kamen Rider]

Yeah, that was for the sake of access to the depot and yard.

why be stuck taking such a long walk around Broadway Junction?

(though when I’ve had to report to ENY Yard; I take the L and use the Bushwick Ave entrance. Quicker for me and I don’t have to climb all those stairs)

[biGC323232]

3 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

I heard Alabama had been added for the workers at ENY Yard and the depot.

i heard the same thing...But me personally if all they do is run  trains in peak direction rush hours i would eliminate skip stop just have both  lcl between jamaica center and Broadway jct  and have  run express from Broadway jct to marcy av am vice versa pm...Just my opinion

[Apes]

I don't see them getting rid of  Skip-Stop anytime soon with the new repairs done going into Jamaica, it's a huge opportunity for passengers to get to the Air-train on time. COVID is slowly depleting which means more tourism, especially for the holiday season. I personally would never take the train to the airport but lately I've been seeing a lot of it. 

[RandomRider0101]

10 hours ago, Apes said:

I don't see them getting rid of  Skip-Stop anytime soon with the new repairs done going into Jamaica, it's a huge opportunity for passengers to get to the Air-train on time. COVID is slowly depleting which means more tourism, especially for the holiday season. I personally would never take the train to the airport but lately I've been seeing a lot of it. 

They can just run the  every 5 minutes, or have the peak-direction express like I suggested before (if they can do it).

They can run the current  a few more years or they can continue to run it longer. I guess time will tell.

[Apes]

2 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

They can just run the  every 5 minutes, or have the peak-direction express like I suggested before (if they can do it).

They can run the current  a few more years or they can continue to run it longer. I guess time will tell.

The issue with that is we need to relay the trains at Board St. We need to clear the train of everybody which takes some time since the TO does the relay solo. If trains were running every 5 mins I could just imagine the delays this would cause lol. They would need to have a switch man at board st (TO at the opposite end to bring the train in the station) or have cops to clear people out, but god knows why they don't. Sometimes they do have switchmen but there's been many times during rush hour where they haven't. 

[R68ACTrain]

On 10/1/2022 at 11:48 AM, Amiri the subway guy said:

Here’s what I believe should happen. The main order will go on the  the R179 8 cars sets will go to the   But the R179 19 car will stay with the  the  will be fully R211 all  R46s will be scrapped. The  options order will than go the  and sending the R179s to the   After that the other option order will be for the  displacing the R160s to the  all remaining R46s and 80%-90% of all R68s and R68As will be scrapped. The R211 open gangway will be sent to the  first. The   gets R160s. The little small amounts of R68s R68As  will be kept for emergency spares in the event of R211s breakdown but when the R211s are proofed to be realible R68s R68As will be scrapped. Any thoughts 

Here we go with this 8 car R179 propaganda. I'm assuming you haven't been on the forums enough to see that many of us here on the forums are saying, the R179s are NOT moving to Coney Island, or Jamaica for the . Just so you know, the real expectation for majority of the people on these forums are for the R211s and 10 Car R179s to cover and, have the 88 R179s at 207th Street move to East New York to Increase  services. Another thing I want to point out, the R211s are replacing the R46, not the R68/As. The R179s are not going to Concourse for no given reason, as when the R211 arrive at Jamaica, this results in displaced R160s returning to the  and . This also allows for the  and  to run New Techs as well. When you said the  would get R160s, you completely got it all wrong. Due to the platform length of the entire route, the  will be running 150ft trains under further notice. There is no plan for any New Techs to be slimmed to 3 car 60 foot trains to accomodate this route as of right now. Time will only tell. As for the R68/As in storage, I agree with you in this case.  will have to learn from their mistakes of immediately retiring older fleet as soon as the new fleet comes in, then a fleet shortage because the new fleet is being sidelined. This has been the case for both the subway, and bus division. Carry on,

 

[R68ACTrain]

On 10/1/2022 at 3:51 PM, darkstar8983 said:

That sound about right:

Base order - kills off all Pitkin R46s -460 cars (essentially takes care of the  fleet

option order 1 - 160 cars takes care of the  fleet and Rockaway Park Shuttle, along with R179 10-car units now Interchangeable between the , but CBTC can start with just the base order, since the 8-car R179s can be used in the interim. 400 cars for Concourse for the  train and anticipated service increases. All 8-car R179s shift to ENY.

so far - 1020 cars assigned

 

option order 2 (and end of option 1)

350 cars to Jamaica for the  and shifts lower numbered R160s to Coney Island for the , due to higher ridership on QB than CPW/Brighton. 
 

so far - 1370 cars of 1500 cars to be assigned

The extra 130 cars of NYC Subway R211s can be used to bolster the fleet of Lines assigned the new cars.

R211s to the  

R160s to the  

Or they could just keep things simple and leave Jamaica with all R160s and all Central Park West line cars with R211s. The fleet increase could also move the R179s to Jamaica since R179s will also be CBTC equipped and increase the spare factor. Generation 1 CBTC cars could be in Jamaica, also allowing for possibility of R179 trains and more fleet interchangeability between ENY routes, with Generation 2 R211 cars would be part of Central Park West, assigned 207 St, Pitkin, and Concourse Yards.

 

or do the following:

not give Staten Island the R211, and instead send R68A cars, with the mainline R68/R68A cars assigned to the  / , and the remaining roughly now 210 cars of R211s to be delivered bring sent to Jamaica and send 210 R160s for the . Some slight R211 movements between Pitkin, Concourse and Jamaica would occur to free up a couple more R160s to cover spare factors.

an earlier post suggested 6th Av CBTC will be starting in this capital program and it is not known whether a new order of subway cars will be ready on property for CBTC, so you could just right away have the  with a CBTC ready fleet due to interchangeability of how the  operates in Manhattan. The  can reach its north / south terminals through either 6 Av or Broadway, joining the IND in flexible midtown manhattan reroutes, leaving the  as the only routes incapable of doing so.

 

just keep in mind that IF and ONLY IF there are enough spare NTT cars for any Broadway Line to have a few sets here and there, the MTA will likely assign them to the  long as the  sticks around. Only my plan in the “no R211s for Staten Island” proposal would shift those new cars to the , or a discontinuation of the .

Behind all of this fleet assignment, this should be another reason why the  should be Concourse full time. For this to work, Jerome has to stop sending trains to Concourse to be stored over the weekends, and late nights. This will let CPW to be consecutively R179, R211, and possibily R160 (if any get sent to Concourse).

Those extra 130 R211s could be supplemental to Coney Island, Concourse, or Pitkin/207. Increase  or  service. 

As for SI, I agree that they could send some sort of fleet over there. But even though, Staten Island has been screaming new cars since the R44s retirement in 2010. So it may actually be better if they get R211S'.