Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Armandito]

1 hour ago, mrsman said:

Thank you for the map.  I actually like this, the routing for this is nearly a straight line.,  And there is capacity along the Brighton line to accommodate an additional train, since it is 4 tracks.  So I see this line as being supplemental to existing Brighton service.

Another benefit is that it will necessarily reduce  service on the Culver line to allow more room for  [and maybe even some  express trains].

Not only that, there would also be more frequent service along the portion of the route north of Bedford-Nostrand. This could benefit gentrifying neighborhoods along the route, much like what the experienced over the last two decades.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 7/22/2020 at 6:38 PM, Armandito said:

I'm sure there's still capacity left over on the Brighton to accommodate a second local service. After all, the operates roughly every 6 minutes during rush hours.

 

On 7/23/2020 at 7:55 AM, mrsman said:

Thank you for the map.  I actually like this, the routing for this is nearly a straight line.,  And there is capacity along the Brighton line to accommodate an additional train, since it is 4 tracks.  So I see this line as being supplemental to existing Brighton service.

Another benefit is that it will necessarily reduce  service on the Culver line to allow more room for  [and maybe even some  express trains].

But is there enough capacity to turn this X line at Brighton Beach? Per your (Armandito) map, you proposed running it local and turning it at Brighton Beach. But the  Brighton Express already turns there, and the switches are not located right near the station due to the curve just outside the station. That’s going to be one hell of a bottleneck. Turning at Stillwell, where the  turns would present the same problem too, and the crossover is even further away. This is why they can’t just simply run more  trains to/from 2nd Avenue during rush hours now and have to send some  trains there.

Edited July 24, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Armandito]

23 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

 

But is there enough capacity to turn this X line at Brighton Beach? Per your (Armandito) map, you proposed running it local and turning it at Brighton Beach. But the  Brighton Express already turns there, and the switches are not located right near the station due to the curve just outside the station. That’s going to be one hell of a bottleneck. Turning at Stillwell, where the  turns would present the same problem too, and the crossover is even further away. This is why they can’t just simply run more  trains to/from 2nd Avenue during rush hours now and have to send some  trains there.

At first I proposed running it express along Brighton but the layout of tracks at Prospect Park creates yet another bottleneck: https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/trackmap/detail-franklin.png

Edited July 24, 2020 by Armandito

[T to Dyre Avenue]

16 hours ago, Armandito said:

At first I proposed running it express along Brighton but the layout of tracks at Prospect Park creates yet another bottleneck: https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/trackmap/detail-franklin.png

There would still be a bottleneck at Prospect because the  is on the middle tracks there and would be merging with this X train to get on the local tracks.

[Armandito]

14 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

There would still be a bottleneck at Prospect because the  is on the middle tracks there and would be merging with this X train to get on the local tracks.

True, but if the X were to run express to Brighton Beach, at least there wouldn't be merging delays near the terminal. Better yet, a new set of tracks connecting directly between the 7 Av station and the local tracks at Prospect Park currently leading to the Franklin line could alleviate that choke point.

[mrsman]

What would be helpful to this discussion is if someone knew about the numbers of trains that could be turned back at Brighton Beach and at Coney Island and then to see if additional train service can be accommodated.  Does anyone know of these numbers?

It would seem to me that some  trains can run as  , express along the Brighton line.  The express trains,  and  would run from Brighton Beach and the locals,  and (X) would run from CI.  Obviously,  would all merge at Prospect Park on their way to DeKalb and Manhattan and (X) would continue up Franklin.  The question is how many trains can reasonably be accommodated and the chokepoint is likely the number of trains that can turn back at BB and CI.

 

[Armandito]

26 minutes ago, mrsman said:

What would be helpful to this discussion is if someone knew about the numbers of trains that could be turned back at Brighton Beach and at Coney Island and then to see if additional train service can be accommodated.  Does anyone know of these numbers?

It would seem to me that some  trains can run as  , express along the Brighton line.  The express trains,  and  would run from Brighton Beach and the locals,  and (X) would run from CI.  Obviously,  would all merge at Prospect Park on their way to DeKalb and Manhattan and (X) would continue up Franklin.  The question is how many trains can reasonably be accommodated and the chokepoint is likely the number of trains that can turn back at BB and CI.

 

The runs more frequently than the other three lines to Stillwell but the terminal can't handle all trains coming in at once, which is why some trains terminate at Kings Highway during rush hours. The and X, on the other hand, would both run at 6 TPH for a combined total of 12 TPH on the segment north of Bedford-Nostrand. The , on the other hand, runs at 7.5 TPH. If both and X trains were to terminate at Stillwell, the platform would need to have a capacity of 13.5 TPH. Though it could also be helpful to revive the as you mentioned, I would limit it to one  local train as a  express from Brighton Beach to 96th during the AM rush and vice versa during the PM rush.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Armandito

[LGA Link N Train]

7 hours ago, mrsman said:

What would be helpful to this discussion is if someone knew about the numbers of trains that could be turned back at Brighton Beach and at Coney Island and then to see if additional train service can be accommodated.  Does anyone know of these numbers?

I don't remember the exact numbers but what I do know is that Brighton Beach can turn about somewhere to 10-12 TPH whereas every platform on Coney Island can turn no more than 10 TPH. This is a factor of Tight curves, outdated signalling, and (maybe?) poor dispatching practices. 

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Anyways, this idea is a bit out there, but what if we connected the 11th Street cut to Phase 3 of the 2nd Avenue Subway? I wonder if it'd take pressure off Lexington-59th. Here's how it would go:

Trains are rerouted to Astoria. Trains either remain in Astoria or are rerouted to 125th Street with the  depending if there's a 72nd Street Lower Level. 

Trains are either eliminated or rerouted to both Queens Blvd and 2nd Avenue. This new service would run Local between Jamaica-179th Street and Houston Street (or Hanover Square) at 12 TPH, running alongside the and  LInes. 

[Armandito]

14 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I don't remember the exact numbers but what I do know is that Brighton Beach can turn about somewhere to 10-12 TPH whereas every platform on Coney Island can turn no more than 10 TPH. This is a factor of Tight curves, outdated signalling, and (maybe?) poor dispatching practices. 

If that's so, I'm not sure if this service plan would work out well, especially if it means local riders along Brighton would have to lose a one-seat ride to Manhattan:

Rush hours and middays: and via Brighton Express to Brighton Beach; X via Brighton Local to Coney Island

All other times: via Brighton Local to Coney Island

[LGA Link N Train]

10 minutes ago, Armandito said:

If that's so, I'm not sure if this service plan would work out well, especially if it means local riders along Brighton would have to lose a one-seat ride to Manhattan:

Rush hours and middays: and via Brighton Express to Brighton Beach; X via Brighton Local to Coney Island

All other times: via Brighton Local to Coney Island

Okay. Personally, I'd make this X Line terminate at Prospect Park and Call it a day. 

[Armandito]

24 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Okay. Personally, I'd make this X Line terminate at Prospect Park and Call it a day. 

Better yet, have it run as a spur of the train instead of using a new desingator.

[Armandito]

If the ever comes to life, what kind of subway cars would it use as rolling stock and which yard would it be based at?

[danig1220]

1 minute ago, Armandito said:

If the ever comes to life, what kind of subway cars would it use as rolling stock and which yard would it be based at?

MTA be like, Good Question, here more crappy announcements 

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

My line extension:

Starting the track map at 110 St

110 St  

116 St

125 St  

135 St  

145 St  (Upgraded to have full length platforms)

148 St station closed, tracks leading to it remain as a spur to the Lenox Yard

Yankee Stadium-Macombs Dam Bridge  Metro-North, walk to

Goes along Ogden Ave

166 St

169 St

Cross Bronx Expy -Sedgwick

Turns onto Undercliff Ave

175 St  

Merges to Sedgwick Ave

Burnside Av

183 St - Fordham Rd  Metro-North at University Hts

Kingsbridge Rd  

Jerome Park

Van Cortlandt Park - Gun Hill Rd

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During rush hours, select  trains would be brought up this line but will skip:

• 166 St
• 169 St
• CBE - Sedgwick
• 175 St
• Burnside Av
• Kingsbridge Rd

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Bklyn Bound 2 Local

[Armandito]

5 minutes ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

My line extension:

Starting the track map at 110 St

110 St  

116 St

125 St  

135 St  

145 St  (Upgraded to have full length platforms)

148 St station closed, tracks leading to it remain as a spur to the Lenox Yard

Yankee Stadium-Macombs Dam Bridge  Metro-North, walk to

Goes along Ogden Ave

166 St

169 St

Cross Bronx Expy -Sedgwick

Turns onto Undercliff Ave

175 St  

Merges to Sedgwick Ave

Burnside Av

183 St - Fordham Rd

Kingsbridge Rd  Metro-North at University Hts

Jerome Park

Van Cortlandt Park - Gun Hill Rd

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During rush hours, select  trains would be brought up this line but will skip:

• 166 St
• 169 St
• CBE - Sedgwick
• 175 St
• Burnside Av
• Kingsbridge Rd

 

 

 

 

Nice idea, but I'd terminate the extension at Cedar Avenue and Fordham Road. Sedgwick is very wavy which might make the construction of a subway rather infeasible.

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

2 minutes ago, Armandito said:

Nice idea, but I'd terminate the extension at Cedar Avenue and Fordham Road. Sedgwick is very wavy which might make the construction of a subway rather infeasible.

Agreed. I was planning on having it cut a few corners, like in between Jerome Park and Gun Hill Rd

Edited July 26, 2020 by Bklyn Bound 2 Local

[Armandito]

Returning to my old SAS service plan proposal, here are a few revisions I want to make:

Ex-Lefferts trains will be extended to Rockaway Park at all times except late nights

Rockaway Park shuttle operates late nights only

Everything else is unchanged, assuming the SAS gets connected to the Fulton Street Line in the distant future.

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

This is the text on a platform sign about my extended :

: To Gun Hill Rd weekdays/evenings. Eastern Pkwy Local, 7 Av Express, Sedgwick Local. Late nights runs between 135 St and Gun Hill Rd, use the  and  to complete the trip. On weekends this train runs between Gun Hill Rd and Times Square-42 St via 7 A Local. Rush hours  trains will run Sedgwick Exp.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Bklyn Bound 2 Local

[danig1220]

I have a idea. How do we reduce traffic (people waiting for trains) on the . As you might know. The  is a very high demand subway line. With connections to the  and future , It is, for one very important, and two very busy. I have a idea, how Do we reduce the number of people waiting for trains

[Lawrence St]

10 minutes ago, danig1220 said:

I have a idea. How do we reduce traffic (people waiting for trains) on the . As you might know. The  is a very high demand subway line. With connections to the  and future , It is, for one very important, and two very busy. I have a idea, how Do we reduce the number of people waiting for trains

Create a new tunnel underneath the current structure to create a new Carnarsie Express service.

[LGA Link N Train]

1 minute ago, danig1220 said:

I have a idea. How do we reduce traffic (people waiting for trains) on the . As you might know. The  is a very high demand subway line. With connections to the  and future , It is, for one very important, and two very busy. I have a idea, how Do we reduce the number of people waiting for trains

Short Term: Upgrade Capacity on the BMT Eastern Division. This'll involve resignalling the Williamsburg Bridge so that it can handle more than 24 TPH. Rebuilding Myrtle Junction so that Northbound Trains don't interfere with trains from both directions. Extending Peak Express service along the  to Broadway Junction so that we can do away with Skip Stop. Eventually, you'll need to extend the BMT Eastern Division station Platforms to 600' in order to accommodate 10 Car Trains in addition to having to expand East New York Yard. 

Long Term: Redesign Phase 3 so that 14th Street (2nd Avenue) is an "Express" Station. The planned layup tracks between 9th and 20th Streets should turn under East 3rd Street so that it can reach South 4th Street. This will include an additional Stop at Saint Marks Place. A new subway on South 4th Street/Broadway would be built to replace the current Elevated on the , and . 

Just now, Lawrence St said:

Create a new tunnel underneath the current structure to create a new Carnarsie Express service.

or this. 

[F O O L]

49 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Short Term: Upgrade Capacity on the BMT Eastern Division. This'll involve resignalling the Williamsburg Bridge so that it can handle more than 24 TPH. Rebuilding Myrtle Junction so that Northbound Trains don't interfere with trains from both directions. Extending Peak Express service along the  to Broadway Junction so that we can do away with Skip Stop. Eventually, you'll need to extend the BMT Eastern Division station Platforms to 600' in order to accommodate 10 Car Trains in addition to having to expand East New York Yard. 

Long Term: Redesign Phase 3 so that 14th Street (2nd Avenue) is an "Express" Station. The planned layup tracks between 9th and 20th Streets should turn under East 3rd Street so that it can reach South 4th Street. This will include an additional Stop at Saint Marks Place. A new subway on South 4th Street/Broadway would be built to replace the current Elevated on the , and . 

or this. 

How would you reconfigure the Myrtle Junction? The space seems pretty tight.

[JeremiahC99]

3 minutes ago, F O O L said:

How would you reconfigure the Myrtle Junction? The space seems pretty tight.

There’s an entire Vanshnookenraggen article about it:

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2016/11/fixing-the-myrtle-broadway-problem/

 

[LGA Link N Train]

6 minutes ago, F O O L said:

How would you reconfigure the Myrtle Junction? The space seems pretty tight.

Rebuild the upper Level so that it can handle heavy weight trains. Then build a new structure on Lewis Avenue so that Northbound  Trains can access said upper level.

 

1 minute ago, JeremiahC99 said:

There’s an entire Vanshnookenraggen article about it:

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2016/11/fixing-the-myrtle-broadway-problem/

 

Basically a budget version of this.

Edited July 27, 2020 by LaGuardia Link N Tra

[CenSin]

28 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

There’s an entire Vanshnookenraggen article about it:

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2016/11/fixing-the-myrtle-broadway-problem/

 

Reposting my version:

It does involve reactivating one upper level track at least and routing the Queens-bound track from the mainline through a side street. But there is no need to widen the right-of-way to make room for 5 tracks on the mainline.

EDIT: You can ignore the middle track on the Myrtle Avenue branch. It’s not strictly necessary.

Edited July 27, 2020 by CenSin