Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

I have 2 proposals:

A Crosstown  line that turns off the g at Bedford norstrand, replacing a 2 track Franklin Avenue shuttle to go down to Brighton.

An E NY/Jamaica Avenue line.

[LGA Link N Train]

6 minutes ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

I have 2 proposals:

A Crosstown  line that turns off the g at Bedford norstrand, replacing a 2 track Franklin Avenue shuttle to go down to Brighton.

An E NY/Jamaica Avenue line.

The first proposal is self explanatory

And I don't understand what you mean by your second proposal. can you explain it?

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

7 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

The first proposal is self explanatory

And I don't understand what you mean by your second proposal. can you explain it?

Basically a line that begins at Prospect park, goes along Lincoln Road, then East New York avenue, and switches onto Jamaica avenue to terminate at Jamaica Center, also rerouting the  lines along Jamaica avenue.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Bklyn Bound 2 Local
incorrect street adjective

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

Heres a route map of my Jamaica Av-E NY Av line:

Jamaica Center  

Sutphin Blvd-JFK   

Jamaica-Van Wyck  

121 St  

111 St  

104 St  

Woodhaven Blvd  

85 St-Forest Pkwy  

75 St-Elderts Ln  

Highland Blvd  

Miller Av  

Alabama Av  

Rockaway Av

Pitkin Av

Buffallo Av

Utica Av

Albany Av

E New York Av

Bedford Av

Prospect Park  

Edited July 21, 2020 by Bklyn Bound 2 Local

[mrsman]

9 hours ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

Heres a route map of my Jamaica Av-E NY Av line:

Jamaica Center  

Sutphin Blvd-JFK   

Jamaica-Van Wyck  

121 St  

111 St  

104 St  

Woodhaven Blvd  

85 St-Forest Pkwy  

75 St-Elderts Ln  

Highland Blvd  

Miller Av  

Alabama Av  

Rockaway Av

Pitkin Av

Buffallo Av

Utica Av

Albany Av

E New York Av

Bedford Av

Prospect Park  

This is a nice idea.  I felt that part of this line could be used as an extension of the IRT line.  

 to Brooklyn College (with possible extension down to Kings Plaza.

 to New Lots

 to Broadway Junction

 down Utica Ave.

 

Once at Broadway Junction,  can provide added connections for the trains that are there.  For the inbound commute, some travelers on the  could transfer and thereby make their lines less crowded.

To take it one step further, it would be nice to have an express subway that connects Jamaica-Broadway junction- Flatbush/Atlantic-Lower Manhattan-Midtown.  Ideally, this should be an LIRR route connecting to Downtown and Grand Central via Brooklyn.  But to the extent that it is not feasible given costs, then have the formerly Lefferts  trains run on the LIRR Atlantic branch east of Pennsylvania Avenue to Jamaica.  [The Rockaway will also run on the former LIRR but then make a new transfer to the Rockaway line in Ozone Park.]     will take over the Pitkin/Liberty routing (at IRT scale) to Lefferts.

The idea is that you now have an express line from Eastern Queens - Jamaica - Broadway Junction and then continuing express along the  into Manhattan.  No stops between Jamaica and Broadway Junction to really speed up trips to/from the east.  The Rockaway trains can also  take advantage of this routing, no stops between Broadway Junction and Aqueduct. 

The Lefferts passengers along the Pitkin/Liberty line will be moved to  service to accommodate the upgrading of the Rockaway and Jamaica lines.  They will still have express service, but along Eastern Parkway instead of Fulton.

Yes, I know that IRT cars are narrower, so there will be more crowding, but this seems a feasible way to accommodate Jamaica-Downtown Brooklyn traffic that will explode with an express line at subway fares.

[engineerboy6561]

On 7/19/2020 at 9:43 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

Both are duplicated heavily by the Metro North Harlem Line, and I don’t know about you but there is opportunity to use the existing line to bring transit service in the area. Currently, the Harlem Line stops at Melrose at 162nd Street, Tremont at Tremont Avenue, Fordham at Fordham Road, Botanical Gardens at Bedford Park Blvd, Willaiamsbridge at Gun Hill Road, Woodlawn at 233rd Street, and Wakefield at 241st Street. There are some neighborhoods that are bypassed at all due to no station there and others see paltry headways. Perhaps if stations were build in Morrisania at 168th Street, Claremont at Claremont Pkwy, Belmont at either East 180th or 183rd Street, and Norwood at 204th Street (all holding 8-car trains), rearrange Harlem Line service so that there would be a local train service between Mount Vernon West and Grand Central (making all stops while service to Westchester and beyond would go express to Mount Vernon West (as is the case sometimes), and even lower the Metro North fare within the city limits to $2.75, you could have expanded service within the 3rd/Webster Avenue corridor all for a fraction of the cost of building a new subway line. The Bronx Metro North stations could see increased service.

 

Meanwhile, an ideal Bronx subway Line for SAS  service should be along Prospect and Crotona Avenues. The corridor is service by the Bx17 bus and is currently has no nearby subway service (at least on the northern end). Having the SAS routed via Crotona Avenue could help bring better access to the Bronx Zoo and even to the Little Italy neighborhood as a whole.

The problem with putting service on Crotona/Prospect is that below Longwood Av the entire walkshed would be covered by the , between Longwood and Freeman half the walkshed is duplicated by the , half the walkshed above 180 St is a park, and there's not really a good setup to make bus connections at Crotona/Fordham. On 3 Av, on the other hand, you're 1/2-3/4 of a mile from the  the whole way, and you get distance from the  pretty quickly (2/3 of a mile by 167 St, increasing to about a mile by Tremont Av), so most of the walkshed is unique, it would fill the gap between the  and the , and Fordham Plaza is naturally a good spot for an interim terminal because of the bus and commuter rail connections. I'd build it out to there first, then extend it out to Co-Op City via Norwood-205 St, Williamsbridge, and Gun Hill Rd; that would do an even better job of relieving the , since anyone going to the East Side from Wakefield, Williamsbridge, or Baychester could just transfer to the  on Gun Hill. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 7/19/2020 at 6:52 PM, CenSin said:

----------

I was reading the LGA Access Improvement Project documents and came across this proposal:

It’s interesting, but if this had any remote chance of being built as proposed, it would essentially turn the 36 Street local tracks into another bottleneck for Queens Boulevard. The split should—instead—start as far west as Court Square as an extension of the to a lower level of Queens Plaza, thereby avoiding any reduction in Queens Boulevard capacity. The dead-ends at Court Square anyway, so with a connection to the at Queens Plaza, this would—at the very least—make it more useful to ordinary passengers.

 

On 7/19/2020 at 7:21 PM, Bay Ridge Express said:

Or just let the  do their thing... this is basically the same proposal but on Steinway instead of 31. Also, extending the  could increase terminal capacity and there wouldn't be any bottlenecks. Plus, more people would be willing to ride the Broadway line than the  especially if you're going to have airport connectivity.

Both of these are better ideas than Cuomo’s/the PA’s AirTrain, which has just as much of a chance of getting tied up in court. Though I do have to agree that extending the  to LGA isn’t much better than an AirTrain, because the  would still require a transfer for a clear majority of riders. A subway extension via Steinway and Astoria Blvd, should be with either the  or , with Woodhaven Blvd being converted into an express station, so that the line that remains on Queens Blvd doesn’t get overwhelmed by riders boarding between 67th Avenue and Elmhurst Avenue. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Armandito]

14 hours ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

I have 2 proposals:

A Crosstown  line that turns off the g at Bedford norstrand, replacing a 2 track Franklin Avenue shuttle to go down to Brighton.

An E NY/Jamaica Avenue line.

I like your first proposal, though I'd name it the X for Crosstown. It would make all stops to Bedford-Nostrand Avenues before getting onto the route of the former Franklin Shuttle to the and trains at Prospect Park. From there it would make all local stops to Brighton Beach.

My proposed service plan for the X is as follows:

Weekdays: Court Square to Brighton Beach

Late nights and weekends: Bedford-Nostrand Avenues to Prospect Park

[bobtehpanda]

So I'm not really sure about how Roosevelt Avenue Upper is laid out. But how feasible would it be to move the local tracks up one level to reduce platform crowding?

Basically, from top to bottom

• local
• island platform
• mezzanine
• side platforms (the existing local tracks would be paved over)

The idea would be similar to 34-Penn (both of them), where the local and express trains are separated to reduce platform congestion at a major transfer point.

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

9 hours ago, Armandito said:

I like your first proposal, though I'd name it the X for Crosstown. It would make all stops to Bedford-Nostrand Avenues before getting onto the route of the former Franklin Shuttle to the and trains at Prospect Park. From there it would make all local stops to Brighton Beach.

My proposed service plan for the X is as follows:

Weekdays: Court Square to Brighton Beach

Late nights and weekends: Bedford-Nostrand Avenues to Prospect Park

https://jspaint.app/#local:8c49a1719a1e8

Edited July 22, 2020 by Bklyn Bound 2 Local

[Armandito]

6 minutes ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

https://jspaint.app/#local:8c49a1719a1e8

What's that link for? All I got was a painting app.

[LGA Link N Train]

9 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

So I'm not really sure about how Roosevelt Avenue Upper is laid out. But how feasible would it be to move the local tracks up one level to reduce platform crowding?

Basically, from top to bottom

• local
• island platform
• mezzanine
• side platforms (the existing local tracks would be paved over)

The idea would be similar to 34-Penn (both of them), where the local and express trains are separated to reduce platform congestion at a major transfer point.

The thing about the upper level Roosevelt Platform is on the same level as the Mezzanine. If you go to the 75th Street Entrance and walk down a ramp. Before you reach the easternmost staircase that leads to the Forest Hills/Jamaica Bound Platform, there will be a door to your blocked by a metal gate. That gate leads right to the "incomplete" upper level which is currently an office for NYPD. So, In order to bring the  and to that abandoned upper level, you'd have to reconfigure a majority the mezzanine to the point where I think would affect the surface level. So to answer your question, I don't think its feasible, but this seems like something worth looking into.

[Armandito]

Here's a map of the X Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1lxW4P9UU30ls-QIVc3GW47_ZGz_C2I5k&ll=40.691649136100985%2C-74.0161341433277&z=12

 

[danig1220]

I have some proposals.

Extending the  to Co-Op City. (Not new) 

Extending the Frankilin Avenue  to connect with the  (Not new)

Cutting the  to Whitehall Street, replacing Bay Ridge service with the  (Not new) 

A Fordham Road - 207th Street  streetcar from Co-Op City to 207th Street , to reduce bus traffic. 

[F O O L]

3 hours ago, danig1220 said:

I have some proposals.

Extending the  to Co-Op City. (Not new) 

Extending the Frankilin Avenue  to connect with the  (Not new)

Cutting the  to Whitehall Street, replacing Bay Ridge service with the  (Not new) 

A Fordham Road - 207th Street  streetcar from Co-Op City to 207th Street , to reduce bus traffic. 

Interesting ideas but you cant cut the R from Bay Ridge since a good of amount of riders would want to travel to midtown (and the J is already pretty long) but some other service to supplement the 4th avenue local would be helpful. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Most Midtown-bound  riders ditch the  in favor of the  or  at the nearest 4th Avenue express station. Or the  or  at Atlantic. The  however does have a good connection to the Staten Island Ferry at Whitehall, which is good for Ferry riders headed to Downtown Brooklyn. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

6 hours ago, Armandito said:

What's that link for? All I got was a painting app.

It supposed to lead to a track map 😕

[RapidoNewLook]

An idea to replace the southern section of the  could be to extend the SAS  line south from Hanover Square to Whitehall St with a connection to the Montague St Tunnel.

[Armandito]

35 minutes ago, RapidoNewLook said:

An idea to replace the southern section of the  could be to extend the SAS  line south from Hanover Square to Whitehall St with a connection to the Montague St Tunnel.

Not a great idea. Learned that lesson the hard way by learning that most customers prefer Midtown service than a line along Second Avenue.

1 hour ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

It supposed to lead to a track map 😕

You might want to save the file in a different format so the track map could be visible.

[LGA Link N Train]

22 minutes ago, Armandito said:

Not a great idea. Learned that lesson the hard way by learning that most customers prefer Midtown service than a line along Second Avenue.

And those customers usually transfer to the  or  

[Bay Ridge Express]

5 hours ago, Armandito said:

Here's a map of the X Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1lxW4P9UU30ls-QIVc3GW47_ZGz_C2I5k&ll=40.691649136100985%2C-74.0161341433277&z=12

Nah, such a line would take away capacity from the . In my Franklin Line extensions, I considered the following: 

Making the shuttle a two track instead of one track line? (would really only be useful if the route connected with the ), extending the line to the Bedford-Nostrand Avs  station (where it can interchange onto the  if warranted), continue on Kosciuszko St to connect with the , and then lastly go under Myrtle Av to connect with the  at Wyckoff. However, it should begin at Prospect Park.

[Armandito]

36 minutes ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

Nah, such a line would take away capacity from the . In my Franklin Line extensions, I considered the following: 

Making the shuttle a two track instead of one track line? (would really only be useful if the route connected with the ), extending the line to the Bedford-Nostrand Avs  station (where it can interchange onto the  if warranted), continue on Kosciuszko St to connect with the , and then lastly go under Myrtle Av to connect with the  at Wyckoff. However, it should begin at Prospect Park.

I'm sure there's still capacity left over on the Brighton to accommodate a second local service. After all, the operates roughly every 6 minutes during rush hours.

[RapidoNewLook]

2 hours ago, Armandito said:

Not a great idea. Learned that lesson the hard way by learning that most customers prefer Midtown service than a line along Second Avenue.

You still have Midtown service, only on the East side instead of the center.

[mrsman]

14 hours ago, Armandito said:

Not a great idea. Learned that lesson the hard way by learning that most customers prefer Midtown service than a line along Second Avenue.

14 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

And those customers usually transfer to the  or  

Given that the Manhattan Bridge saves so much time and distance, nobody on the 4th Ave local bound for Canal Street (or any station to the north of there) would stay on the  but would transfer to  or  at first opportunity.  This is one reason why the Montague tunnel closing was not so bad, most of the riders transferred to bridge trains anyway.

Riders boarding from Downtown Brooklyn may want to go to Midtown, but as others said, they have the option of the IRT lines within reasonable walking distance.

For 4th Ave local riders heading to Downtown, it remains to be seen whether the  line or the  line is better.   would have more connections (Fulton, Chambers) and would seems to service the center (and Centre) of Lower Manhattan.   does service the ferry terminal to SI.  Ideally, service can be expanded on the 4th Ave local to service both lines - an  for the Broadway local and perhaps a SAS service that takes over the Nassau line from the  

[mrsman]

19 hours ago, Armandito said:

Here's a map of the X Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1lxW4P9UU30ls-QIVc3GW47_ZGz_C2I5k&ll=40.691649136100985%2C-74.0161341433277&z=12

 

Thank you for the map.  I actually like this, the routing for this is nearly a straight line.,  And there is capacity along the Brighton line to accommodate an additional train, since it is 4 tracks.  So I see this line as being supplemental to existing Brighton service.

Another benefit is that it will necessarily reduce  service on the Culver line to allow more room for  [and maybe even some  express trains].