Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[RollOver]

Here's what I think of it.

 

The doesn't need service to Brooklyn. In 2005, I think, the ran between Bowling Green and Bronx (I'm not gonna try to spell it) except rush hours to Brooklyn. Then it was increased to run to Brooklyn in middays. This is pretty much proving that the extension isn't needed, and by the time evening hits, most people have gone home already.

 

Yes, Midtown Manhattan, Lower Manhattan and Downtown Brooklyn are New York City's central business districts and the primary destinations for many rush hour commuters (and presumably weekend mornings/late afternoon & early evenings) coming from the outer residential areas. Outside of the aforementioned time periods, almost every line only has all of its seats filled up with some other passengers standing, even at the peak load points.

 

However, I think the has its reasons for why they extended midday trains to/from Flatbush (from late June 2009 to present). It could most likely be because of its interconnection with the and the car swapping at Flatbush terminal. You never know. Someone else (including the active/retired transit employees) here can provide more information.

 

Before they extended the to Brooklyn on middays, midday trains ran about 12-15 tph on its entire route, which was incredibly overkill for the Jerome branch and Lexington Express itself. I was thinking in my mind like this: if the Concourse branch sees trains 10 minutes apart, then why should the entire route (between Woodlawn and Utica) run every 4 minutes...I mean they most certainly had no reason...as I've been saying, it isn't that busy during the middle of the day, unlike what some others have/will say...

 

With the part-time supplementing the full-time in both Manhattan and Brooklyn, it was obviously much cheaper to just simply extend it to Brooklyn (and lower the headways down to about 8-10 minutes) rather than run a flood of trains on the entire route for literary no reason (overserving the Jerome branch and the Lexington Express)...not to mention the amount of money they actually wasted on too...It's always important to save money for many reasons.

Edited August 21, 2014 by RollOver

[NYSubwayBuff]

What about yanking the 5 off Flatbush and sending it to new lots (express to utica local afterwards) and the 6 to Flatbush

[RollOver]

Edit: Whoops made a mistake in this post. Meant to post it in the Service Changes thread. Sorry.

Edited August 21, 2014 by RollOver

[Union Tpke]

Edit: Whoops made a mistake in this post. Meant to post it in the Service Changes thread. Sorry.

I was just about to mention that.

[RollOver]

Thanks lol.

[Lance]

Re: IRT proposals: I just have one question, why? Sending the 6 to Brooklyn or even Bowling Green is not necessary. The 4 and 5 run frequently enough without the need of the 6. And as stated before, terminating the 6 anywhere besides Brooklyn Bridge will create merging delays with the 4 and 5 at Brooklyn Bridge and Atlantic Av for Brooklyn-bound trains. Any potential benefits gained by extending the 6 are lost because of delays.

 

And sending the 6 to Flatbush and the 5 to New Lots? Really? For starters, if Flatbush can't fully handle the 2 and 5, what makes you think it could handle the busier 6 along with the 2? Second, sending the 6 to Flatbush would force all Lexington Ave trains on the same tracks between the Bridge and Franklin Av. At the height of rush hours, along with the necessary merges, that would be a tight squeeze. Besides, regardless of the obvious delays that would be caused by said ideas, most riders on Eastern Pkwy and Nostrand Ave want express service, not the local, which means more people would be transferring than they are currently.

 

Answering the posted question, the 5 was extended to Flatbush during the midday hours because it was desperately needed. Prior to the service change, 2 trains were quite overcrowded with it being the only line serving the Nostrand corridor.

[RollOver]

Answering the posted question, the 5 was extended to Flatbush during the midday hours because it was desperately needed. Prior to the service change, 2 trains were quite overcrowded with it being the only line serving the Nostrand corridor.

 

Oh ok, thanks.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Those two select trains will delay and trains in both directions at Atlantic for the reason I described upthread. Those extra trains won't do anything to relieve overcrowding. If anything, it might make it worse due to the complex switching move I described. And Lance said the "conga line" would result from turning trains at Atlantic. If there are no trains turning at Atlantic, there's no conga line. Your new idea still has two trains reversing at Atlantic, so problem not solved.

 

Re: IRT proposals: I just have one question, why? Sending the 6 to Brooklyn or even Bowling Green is not necessary. The 4 and 5 run frequently enough without the need of the 6. And as stated before, terminating the 6 anywhere besides Brooklyn Bridge will create merging delays with the 4 and 5 at Brooklyn Bridge and Atlantic Av for Brooklyn-bound trains. Any potential benefits gained by extending the 6 are lost because of delays.

 

And sending the 6 to Flatbush and the 5 to New Lots? Really? For starters, if Flatbush can't fully handle the 2 and 5, what makes you think it could handle the busier 6 along with the 2? Second, sending the 6 to Flatbush would force all Lexington Ave trains on the same tracks between the Bridge and Franklin Av. At the height of rush hours, along with the necessary merges, that would be a tight squeeze. Besides, regardless of the obvious delays that would be caused by said ideas, most riders on Eastern Pkwy and Nostrand Ave want express service, not the local, which means more people would be transferring than they are currently.

 

Answering the posted question, the 5 was extended to Flatbush during the midday hours because it was desperately needed. Prior to the service change, 2 trains were quite overcrowded with it being the only line serving the Nostrand corridor.

Good God... The Lexington Avenue plans really did me in...    And you know what? I'm cancelling any further revamps for this plan, and will be moving on to do plans for other IRT lines besides Lexington Avenue. I hope you are all happy now... I understand its for a good cause (especially over the Brooklyn  extension), but for the sake of convenience and smarter use of service, I'm not doing it for that line anymore. So there. Period. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

About the only real thing that's going to relieve the Lexington Ave IRT is another subway line on the East Side *coughFullSecondAvenueSubwaycough*

[TheNewYorkElevated]

About the only real thing that's going to relieve the Lexington Ave IRT is another subway line on the East Side *coughFullSecondAvenueSubwaycough*

[RollOver]

The IND Grand Concourse Line was originally intended to be a four-track corridor. But that plan, unfortunately, dropped.

 

If it hadn't, Bedford Park Boulevard would have been the northern terminus for the instead of 145th Street, and the would operate on the middle tracks in both directions while the serves all the local stops.

 

This would also reduce delays at the bottleneck north of 135th Street and the 145th Street lower level section, where the short turns on the center track during middays/evenings. Also, this will make riders at all the local stops between Tremont Avenue and 145th Street to remain on the and let them get off at 125th Street for the expresses.

 

The weekend setup, however, is overall fine as is.

[MysteriousBtrain]

If I had my own fantasy subway routes, I would create the following:

 

(1)/(9): Similar to original skip stop service but the 9 runs express peak direction between 96 Street and 145 Street. (145 street would be converted to a 2 track 2 platform station so uptown 9 trains don't skip 145 Street.) The 1 and 9 (vice peak direction) would stop at all stations south of 168 Street, with the 1 stopping at 181 Street, Dyckman Street, 207 Street, 225 Street, and 231 Street and the 9 stopping at 191 Street, 207 Street, 215 Street, 231 Street, and 238 Street.

: Rush Hour service to Nereid Avenue would run express south of Gun Hill Road.

(8): Lexington Avenue Local Service running between Brooklyn Bridge and Gun Hill Road, making all 6 stops in Manhattan and all of the 3 Avenue El stops in The Bronx, plus new stops at 143 Street (Willis Avenue), Willis Avenue- 138 Street, and 3 Avenue - Bruckner Boulevard between 149 Street and 125 Street.

(A)/©: The C extends to Lefferts Boulevard and all A service ends in the rockaways; the late night Lefferts shuttle is renamed the C

: Service runs to Bedford Park Boulevard at all times, or at least whenever it operates.

(J)/(Z): Similar to my 1/9 proposal, the J would make all stops west of Broadway Junction with the Z making express stops west of Broadway Junction.

: Back to its 1980 days on 8 Avenue, the K runs between 168 Street on the A/C lines and Hings Highway on the F line. This would be a weekday only route and makes express stops between 145 Street and Church Avenue. The reason The K makes stops north of 145 Street is to reach the same terminal tracks that are in use on the C train.

: Its current 2 Avenue line proposal except it ends on Broadway and 125 Street. 

: The T would be almost different from what it is proposed now:

It would run between Throgs Neck - Harding Avenue and Rockaway Park (Replacing The Rockaway Park shuttle), Running as the Throgs Neck Local, 2 Avenue Express, Fulton Street Local, and Rockaway local. Late nights, all stops are made.

(U): This route would combine 2 things, the current proposed T route north of Grand Street and the original M route south of Chambers Street. The route would use the original Nassau Street line's Manhattan Bridge tracks to connect the 2 Avenue and Nassau Street lines. Late nights, no service. (Maybe the Nassau Street line could be converted to allow the R68 D trains to run on the U between Grand Street and Dekalb Avenue)

(Y): A 2 avenue subway weekday route running between Hanover Square and Jamaica - 179 Street via 2 Avenue local, 63 street local, and Queens Boulevard Express. The Y make ALL express stops on the Queens Boulevard line.

[Union Tpke]

The IND Grand Concourse Line was originally intended to be a four-track corridor. But that plan, unfortunately, dropped.

 

If it hadn't, Bedford Park Boulevard would have been the northern terminus for the instead of 145th Street, and the would operate on the middle tracks in both directions while the serves all the local stops.

 

This would also reduce delays at the bottleneck north of 135th Street and the 145th Street lower level section, where the short turns on the center track during middays/evenings. Also, this will make riders at all the local stops between Tremont Avenue and 145th Street to remain on the and let them get off at 125th Street for the expresses.

 

The weekend setup, however, is overall fine as is.

that is why the northbound platform at 145th is extra wide covering up where the other express track would be.

[Armandito]

I propose an additional peak-directional rush hour extension to 137 St-City College running nonstop between that station and 96 St. Harlem-148 St might not have the capacity to run more trains during rush hour, so I'm suggesting this will help ease constraints on the . Besides, it will provide passengers at that station an express service to Brooklyn. What do you think?

Edited September 3, 2014 by lara8710

[RollOver]

No. The runs less frequently at 8-9 trains per hour during the peak. Harlem-148 can handle that frequency. Plus, there's little travel between the upper west side and Flatbush, Crown Heights, Brownsville and East New York. The and are slightly less crowded than the and during the morning rush (out of Brooklyn). They only get crowded with Atlantic Avenue crowds out of Brooklyn in the morning and back into Brooklyn in the evening (along with a few residents from the areas mention), while everyone else transfers at Utica and Flatbush for east midtown & lower/upper east side service. They are some people that do get off in downtown Brooklyn though while everyone else stays on their way to Manhattan.

 

You're just going to delay the which runs frequently enough without the need of any other train. Another to add is that some trains in the morning terminate (and then originate) at City College, due to greater demand heading downtown, but the demand isn't for the aforementioned residential areas in Brooklyn.

Edited September 3, 2014 by RollOver

[Armandito]

No. The runs less frequently at 8-9 trains per hour during the peak. Harlem-148 can handle that frequency. Plus, there's little travel between the upper west side and Flatbush, Crown Heights, Brownsville and East New York. The and are slightly less crowded than the and during the morning rush (out of Brooklyn).

 

You're just going to delay the which runs frequently enough without the need of any other train. Another to add is that some trains in the morning terminate (and then originate) at City College, due to greater demand heading downtown, but the demand isn't for the aforementioned residential areas in Brooklyn.

But the has the worst chance of getting a seat during rush hour...

[RollOver]

"Worst" chance for a seat? Last I checked, the strappies aren't an offical MTA poll and loading guidelines call for more crowded trains than empty trains. There's a reason why keeping trains and buses crowded saves money. This isn't a ghost town.

[RollOver]

Anyway, if you want empty trains for nothing, try ridding all the Brooklyn IRT lines during the off-peak, where the combined headways of the and respectively are 16 trains per hour instead of 10-12 trains per hour.

[Wallyhorse]

No. The runs less frequently at 8-9 trains per hour during the peak. Harlem-148 can handle that frequency. Plus, there's little travel between the upper west side and Flatbush, Crown Heights, Brownsville and East New York. The and are slightly less crowded than the and during the morning rush (out of Brooklyn). They only get crowded with Atlantic Avenue crowds out of Brooklyn in the morning and back into Brooklyn in the evening (along with a few residents from the areas mention), while everyone else transfers at Utica and Flatbush for east midtown & lower/upper east side service. They are some people that do get off in downtown Brooklyn though while everyone else stays on their way to Manhattan.

 

You're just going to delay the which runs frequently enough without the need of any other train. Another to add is that some trains in the morning terminate (and then originate) at City College, due to greater demand heading downtown, but the demand isn't for the aforementioned residential areas in Brooklyn.

True for now, but how much is that going to change when Columbia completes their expansion?   That is a BIG reason why I'd be looking to extend Phase 2 of the SAS all the way across 125th Street and previously I was looking at if possible converting 125th Street into an express stop/short-turn terminal.  When that expansion is complete, you could very well see where having a limited amout of service to 137 will help at the very least if not having the SAS extend all the way over.

[Armandito]

I propose an Culver Express train in Brooklyn. The service plan will be as follows:

 

Rush hours, trains will run between 179 St and Kings Hwy in the peak direction only, running express between Jay St and Kings Hwy, and making stops at 7 Av, Church Av, and 18 Av. Off-peak trains will terminate or originate at Church Av, running express between that station and Jay St and stopping at 7 Av. local service in Brooklyn will remain unchanged, but some rush hour local trains will now become express trains.

Edited September 4, 2014 by lara8710

[Trainmaster5]

Just a quick note on the to 137th St proposal. Look at subway.org or Wikipedia for the reason(s) why the idea is a non-starter. Look at the reason why the Van Cortlandt Park to New Lots Avenue and the 145th St-Lenox Avenue to South Ferry services were eliminated. Short answer. Elimination of the slowdowns due to switching at 96th St and Broadway. No one wants slower service. The proposal ain't gonna happen, period. Carry on.

[Wallyhorse]

Just a quick note on the to 137th St proposal. Look at subway.org or Wikipedia for the reason(s) why the idea is a non-starter. Look at the reason why the Van Cortlandt Park to New Lots Avenue and the 145th St-Lenox Avenue to South Ferry services were eliminated. Short answer. Elimination of the slowdowns due to switching at 96th St and Broadway. No one wants slower service. The proposal ain't gonna happen, period. Carry on.

And another reason why I would have Phase 2 of the SAS extended all the way across 125th Street to Broadway-12th Avenue with transfers to all other lines if possible.  When Columbia's expansion is complete it likely would be warranted since the SAS would then double as a 125th Street crosstown.

[Lance]

Or they could increase 1-line service from 137 St onward. But whatever.

[biGC323232]

I propose an Culver Express train in Brooklyn. The service plan will be as follows:

 

Rush hours, trains will run between 179 St and Kings Hwy in the peak direction only, running express between Jay St and Kings Hwy, and making stops at 7 Av, Church Av, and 18 Av. Off-peak trains will terminate or originate at Church Av, running express between that station and Jay St and stopping at 7 Av. local service in Brooklyn will remain unchanged, but some rush hour local trains will now become express trains.

O

 

I propose an Culver Express train in Brooklyn. The service plan will be as follows:

 

Rush hours, trains will run between 179 St and Kings Hwy in the peak direction only, running express between Jay St and Kings Hwy, and making stops at 7 Av, Church Av, and 18 Av. Off-peak trains will terminate or originate at Church Av, running express between that station and Jay St and stopping at 7 Av. local service in Brooklyn will remain unchanged, but some rush hour local trains will now become express trains.

 

Ohhh No....

[Armandito]

O

 

 

Ohhh No....

What's wrong?