Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Honestly I'm not so sure disconnecting the from the and connecting it to the between Whitlock and Hunts Point is such a big plus. Outside of peak-direction service, it probably won't be much faster (if at all) than the current . You'll lose the transfer to the at 149th-Grand Concourse. And worst of all, the will either have to run local in Manhattan or switch after 125th to go express, delaying the and trains in the process. With the tighter Lexington Ave headways, it'll make the switch at 34th look like a smooth ride. And if you run a peak < 2 > express in the Bronx, you'll end up having to reduce service.

 

And by "reverse-branching" the and trains from the north-central Bronx to Bay Plaza, you're dooming 3rd Avenue and Concourse corridor riders to less-frequent service than on the combined section.

[Trainmaster5]

The largest piece of the puzzle is missing: market. Dyre doesn't need service. Instead of expensively redoing service that already functions, why don't we use SAS's 30tph to serve the 3rd ave corridor, and 125th st. MUCH better resource allocation IMO. 

 

Thank you. Finally a post that points out the obvious needs of the market in the northern part of the system. It seems that everyone else has an idea about routing, re-routing, or re-arranging services that already work while missing the ​enormous gap​ in Bronx subway service. Common sense says to tap the unserved or underserved market first but, as I've been told, "common sense isn't so common any more"..Run the service from the Bronx down Second Avenue to a southern terminal and you've essentially replaced the missing Second and Third Avenue elevated services. Wasn't it one of the main ideas to relieve the congestion on the Lexington Avenue line? Wouldn't this idea accomplish that ? Carry on.

[2Line1291]

With Dyre connecting to Pelham, both the and will run express on Lexington and the would be the Lex Local. I don't see how having the <2> will reduce service. The running up 3rd Ave running pass Gun Hill Rd would provide riders with an alternative out of the Bronx and to Midtown would probably keep service at it's current TPH. If anything some (3)'s can run into the Bronx to Gun Hill. The will save time running on the Pelham cause not only is it running peak express between Hunts Point and 3rd Ave, but if you compare the Pelham 3rd Ave and White Plains Rd 3rd Ave stations, the would have to stop at 2 stations after 3rd Ave plus going through a tight S-curve before reaching Manhattan while with the Pelham, 3rd Ave and 125th is a stop away. The would run local but it'll be more frequent than it's current headways since it will not share trackage from Woodlawn to Brooklyn Bridge. Far as the goes yeah I can agree on that.

[LGA Link N Train]

Thank you. Finally a post that points out the obvious needs of the market in the northern part of the system. It seems that everyone else has an idea about routing, re-routing, or re-arranging services that already work while missing the ​enormous gap​ in Bronx subway service. Common sense says to tap the unserved or underserved market first but, as I've been told, "common sense isn't so common any more"..Run the service from the Bronx down Second Avenue to a southern terminal and you've essentially replaced the missing Second and Third Avenue elevated services. Wasn't it one of the main ideas to relieve the congestion on the Lexington Avenue line? Wouldn't this idea accomplish that ? Carry on.

The Answer is simple, have the provisioned to 3 Avenue and have that be a separate project in on its own. Have the go up Dyre Avenue because it would provide more Transfers throughout its route (again that will also be a separate project in on its own or part of phase 2) also, build a new station at Prot Morris similar to how rethinkNYC did. As for SAS in Manhattan, just incorporate it with the Current plans and a relay track from 103 St to 129 St. That's the most logical way I see it and a win-win for both proposal's

 

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[LGA Link N Train]

The Answer is simple, have the provisioned to 3 Avenue and have that be a separate project in on its own. Have the go up Dyre Avenue because it would provide more Transfers throughout its route (again that will also be a separate project in on its own or part of phase 2) also, build a new station at Prot Morris similar to how rethinkNYC did. As for SAS in Manhattan, just incorporate it with the Current plans and a relay track from 103 St to 129 St. That's the most logical way I see it and a win-win for both proposal's

 

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Sorry, I forgot to say to incorporate the 1970's plan with the current plans

 

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[Trainmaster5]

The Answer is simple, have the provisioned to 3 Avenue and have that be a separate project in on its own. Have the go up Dyre Avenue because it would provide more Transfers throughout its route (again that will also be a separate project in on its own or part of phase 2) also, build a new station at Prot Morris similar to how rethinkNYC did. As for SAS in Manhattan, just incorporate it with the Current plans and a relay track from 103 St to 129 St. That's the most logical way I see it and a win-win for both proposal's

 

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I realize that you're new to the forums and very excited to be posting. Welcome aboard. If you'd take a moment to ​a- look at my screen name, ​b- realize that I'd been a C/R and then a M/M for close to 30 years (mainly on the line), and ​c- that I'm getting up there in age and have seen many things in NYCT and the that the average railfan will never see I suggest the following. Go through some of the pinned threads pertaining to random thoughts or proposals before​ you post some of your ideas. Many of them have been discussed countless times over the last decade or so, the pros and cons, and you'll probably see quite a few responses to your idea. Let's just say the to Dyre is not an idea that's had much support over the years. Why would you propose making the line longer, and more prone to delay, while the can run to any unserved or underserved location in the Bronx without disrupting another line ? You have your opinion and I have mine. No hard feelings though. Keep posting. Carry on.

[Lawrence St]

I have an idea:

 

Reconnect the Nassau tracks back to the Manhattan Bridge to restore loop service in case of:

 

Any problem between Whitehall St and 57th Street that can not allow trains to pass or backs up service entirely, in which this would be a useful reroute:

 

via Mountague from Court St, stopping at Broad St, Fulton St, Bowery, and Canal St, then via bridge normal route to Coney Island. This removes the unnecessary train traffic that builds up behind the delay.

 

via Mountague from Atlantic, stopping at Dekalb, Jay St, Court St, Broad St, Fulton St, Chambers St, Bowery and Canal then via Bridge to Coney Island.

 

Same thing for and .

 

Not only with this idea do you stop the train traffic from building up, you can still run service close to normal below Whitehall St, as well as transfers to routes that stop near the affected stops.

 

Now the only problem with this is that the platforms along Nassau are 8 cars.

[P3F]

Express service on Dyre Avenue, in my eyes, can only happen if one of two things happens:

 

1. The Dyre Avenue and Pelham Parkway stations experience an insane ridership boom.

 

2. The city of Mount Vernon decides to pay the to rebuild the old Kingsbridge Road station (reconfiguring Dyre Avenue station in the process), and to run express service to Manhattan from it.

 

Since both of these events are extremely unlikely, the Dyre Avenue express tracks will most likely never be used for regular (non construction-related) service.

Edited August 25, 2017 by P3F

[CenSin]

Express service on Dyre Avenue, in my eyes, can only happen if one of two things happens:

 

1. The Dyre Avenue and Pelham Parkway stations experience an insane ridership boom.

 

2. The city of Mount Vernon decides to pay the to rebuild the old Kingsbridge Road station (reconfiguring Dyre Avenue station in the process), and to run express service to Manhattan from it.

 

Since both of these events are extremely unlikely, the Dyre Avenue express tracks will most likely never be used for regular (non construction-related) service.

Looking at the old New York, Westchester and Boston Railroad (NYWB) track map, it would appear that the original right-of-way (R.O.W.) supported only express service from East 180 Street (in the Bronx) to East 3 Street (in Mount Vernon), making stops at: East 180 Street, Pelham Bay Parkway, and East 3 Street.

 

Both Kingsbridge Road and Dyre Avenue were typical local stations along the express stretch. To convert either to a quadruple-track express station, the approaches to the station would have to be widened. With the amount of trees on either side of the R.O.W., it doesn’t seem impossible at Dyre Avenue. Kingsbridge Road, however, seems to be mostly demolished. The current pair of tracks run right up to the border of Westchester just 200 feet shy of Kingsbridge Road where a small remnant of the original station exists.

[Lawrence St]

I wonder why they didn't just buy Kingsbridge along with the rest of the Dyre Branch, since it's like 200 feet away from where the 5 ends. And Kingsbridge Road isn't that demolished (I'm going by how I saw it back in 2009).

[Lance]

Easy. It was outside the city boundaries. You think Mayor LaGuardia and the city of New York were going to pay for a line in Mt. Vernon? It's exactly why the tracks end right at the Bronx border.

[Wallyhorse]

I have an idea:

 

Reconnect the Nassau tracks back to the Manhattan Bridge to restore loop service in case of:

 

Any problem between Whitehall St and 57th Street that can not allow trains to pass or backs up service entirely, in which this would be a useful reroute:

 

via Mountague from Court St, stopping at Broad St, Fulton St, Bowery, and Canal St, then via bridge normal route to Coney Island. This removes the unnecessary train traffic that builds up behind the delay.

 

via Mountague from Atlantic, stopping at Dekalb, Jay St, Court St, Broad St, Fulton St, Chambers St, Bowery and Canal then via Bridge to Coney Island.

 

Same thing for and .

 

Not only with this idea do you stop the train traffic from building up, you can still run service close to normal below Whitehall St, as well as transfers to routes that stop near the affected stops.

 

Now the only problem with this is that the platforms along Nassau are 8 cars.

I have many times myself suggested a Nassau Street loop line that would likely begin and end at Bay Parkway (with Chambers Street technically the "northern" terminal) by reconnecting the Nassau line to the Brooklyn-bound direction of the Manhattan Bridge ONLY, with such going "northbound" via the tunnel and stopping at Jay Street-Metrotech, Court Street, Broad Street, Fulton Street and Chambers Street on the northbound track ONLY before returning "southbound" via the Manhattan Bridge and skipping those stations on the reverse end.  It would likely require Broad, Fulton and Chambers be lengthened to handle 10-car trains but that should be done anyway as part of a longer-term project to lengthen ALL of the Eastern Division stations to 600'

[RR503]

I have many times myself suggested a Nassau Street loop line that would likely begin and end at Bay Parkway (with Chambers Street technically the "northern" terminal) by reconnecting the Nassau line to the Brooklyn-bound direction of the Manhattan Bridge ONLY, with such going "northbound" via the tunnel and stopping at Jay Street-Metrotech, Court Street, Broad Street, Fulton Street and Chambers Street on the northbound track ONLY before returning "southbound" via the Manhattan Bridge and skipping those stations on the reverse end.  It would likely require Broad, Fulton and Chambers be lengthened to handle 10-car trains but that should be done anyway as part of a longer-term project to lengthen ALL of the Eastern Division stations to 600'

The market for a one seat ride between centre street and the Manhattan Bridge Lines is where? People want to go to midtown these days. That's what the Manhattan bridge is good for. If you're going downtown, use the , make a transfer at Canal, or at Atlantic Barclays. Remember that Dekalb is at capacity, so any service of this type that you add will be one less N/Q to points north.

[Lance]

The ridership is not there. It hasn't been there in decades, even before Chrystie St removed the Nassau St - Manhattan Bridge connection. If my history knowledge is correct, the last service to really use the loop was the Chambers St runs of the #2/RR trains. People are not looking for a Nassau St loop service. And to justify this idea as reroute potential is just plain nonsense. People are not going to put up with months if not years of construction to facilitate a connection that would only be used occasionally, especially when there are much easier ways of rerouting or turning trains in the event of an emergency.

[LGA Link N Train]

https://www.change.org/p/mta-lirr-nyct-south-queens-needs-transit

 

I feel that this is a topic that hasn't been discussed in a while

 

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https://www.change.org/p/mta-lirr-nyct-south-queens-needs-transit

 

I feel that this is a topic that hasn't been discussed in a while

 

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This is about the Rockaway Beach Branch if anyone wants to know

 

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https://www.change.org/p/mta-lirr-nyct-south-queens-needs-transit

 

I feel that this is a topic that hasn't been discussed in a while

 

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This is about the Rockaway Beach Branch if anyone wants to know

 

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[LGA Link N Train]

We've discussed the Rockaway Branch Reactivation recently... unless you're referring to the article.

"Recently". Yes I am referring to the article and ALL OTHER SOURCES that are out there

 

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[T to Dyre Avenue]

With Dyre connecting to Pelham, both the 5 and 6 will run express on Lexington and the 4 would be the Lex Local. I don't see how having the <2> will reduce 3 service. The Q running up 3rd Ave running pass Gun Hill Rd would provide 2 riders with an alternative out of the Bronx and to Midtown would probably keep 2 service at it's current TPH. If anything some (3)'s can run into the Bronx to Gun Hill. The will save time running on the Pelham cause not only is it running peak express between Hunts Point and 3rd Ave, but if you compare the Pelham 3rd Ave and White Plains Rd 3rd Ave stations, the would have to stop at 2 stations after 3rd Ave plus going through a tight S-curve before reaching Manhattan while with the Pelham, 3rd Ave and 125th is a stop away. The would run local but it'll be more frequent than it's current headways since it will not share trackage from Woodlawn to Brooklyn Bridge. Far as the goes yeah I can agree on that.

If the combined / <2> service would be the same as current service, then you'd be reducing service to all the stations that would be bypassed by the <2> express trains. I just don't see how that's any better than the current express.

 

And how many billions is it going to cost to reconfigure 125th St so the can enter and leave on the local tracks and the and can enter and leave on the express? And how is the sharing tracks with the any better than sharing with the ? Doesn't the run more frequently than the , especially when you factor in the express trains?

Edited August 25, 2017 by T to Dyre Avenue

[CenSin]

And how many billions is it going to cost to reconfigure 125th St so the can enter and leave on the local tracks and the and can enter and leave on the express?

It can already do that. The MTA could practically make the swap with the at the flip of a switch.

 

 

And how is the sharing tracks with the any better than sharing with the ? Doesn't the run more frequently than the , especially when you factor in the express trains?

The is the new . All trains go to Pelham Bay Park.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

I agree. The <2> is just redundant! We already have exp service and his plan involves reducing service on the by making the express conflict with the local.

In addition, based on a reply I was given this past January, the Lexington Avenue line is at dispatch capacity. No more trains can be added without having an adverse or counterproductive impact.

 

The second phase of SAS should connect with 3 Av - 138 St instead of tapering off under a station that is already so deep underground, had its elevators rehabbed, and would only cause more disruption to an already-ravaged section of town.

 

I predict more displacement of businesses and residents should SAS' current plan be allowed to continue. I don't live here, but I'm scared of what could happen.

 

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[LGA Link N Train]

The IND Worth Street line should be built. The line will run on it making stops at Mullbery Street(next to Columbus park), Rugters Street, Grand Street (All Manhattan stops) and Bedford - Driggs Avs. After that the will turn North under Marcy Avenue and Connect with the , then continue local to Church Avenue, allowing the to be 100% express via Culver. As for the unused/unfinished platforms under Union Avenue, they will be completed and converted into a new Transit Museum with one platform and 2 tracks to hold trains (unlike the current museum which can only hold 2 full length trains, my proposal will hold 4-6 using only one platform and 2 tracks) and every other platform that was unfinished will be finished and converted as territory to accommodate artifacts and other exhibitions

 

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Edited August 26, 2017 by LGA Link N train

[CenSin]

The IND Worth Street line should be built. The line will run on it making stops at Mullbery Street(next to Columbus park), Rugters Street, Grand Street (All Manhattan stops) and Bedford - Driggs Avs. After that the will turn North under Marcy Avenue and Connect with the , then continue local to Church Avenue, allowing the to be 100% express via Culver.

The Worth Street link to Williamsburg was not proposed to feed into the Crosstown Line, but to intersect it.

 

Plot your proposal on a geographical map. I’m looking at Google Maps and I don’t think there is any way someone would accept such a long-winded trip through Clinton Hill, Bedford Stuyvesant, Williamsburg, Two Bridges, and the Financial District to get to midtown Manhattan. Even supposing their destination was the Financial District, they would be better off transferring to the or which makes a dash under the river directly there. Even most of those on the Crosstown Line would be best served by taking the train to Hoyt–Schermerhorn Streets and transferring.

[Wallyhorse]

The ridership is not there. It hasn't been there in decades, even before Chrystie St removed the Nassau St - Manhattan Bridge connection. If my history knowledge is correct, the last service to really use the loop was the Chambers St runs of the #2/RR trains. People are not looking for a Nassau St loop service. And to justify this idea as reroute potential is just plain nonsense. People are not going to put up with months if not years of construction to facilitate a connection that would only be used occasionally, especially when there are much easier ways of rerouting or turning trains in the event of an emergency.

The loop on Nassau has more to do with transfers and actually could be done with 95th as the sole terminal, supplementing the along Bay Ridge and 4th Avenue in Brooklyn. 

 

Expanding the three Manhattan Stations on Nassau Street has more to do with a longer-term plan that would eventually lengthen ALL of the Eastern Division stations, with those in particular important since Nassau could also then be connected to the SAS (most likely south of Bowery but if you move the SAS to 1st Avenue-Allen Street south of say 23rd you could also do that connection into Bowery more easily).  

[LGA Link N Train]

The Worth Street link to Williamsburg was not proposed to feed into the Crosstown Line, but to intersect it.

 

Plot your proposal on a geographical map. I’m looking at Google Maps and I don’t think there is any way someone would accept such a long-winded trip through Clinton Hill, Bedford Stuyvesant, Williamsburg, Two Bridges, and the Financial District to get to midtown Manhattan. Even supposing their destination was the Financial District, they would be better off transferring to the or which makes a dash under the river directly there. Even most of those on the Crosstown Line would be best served by taking the train to Hoyt–Schermerhorn Streets and transferring.

A second option is to send a train from 6 Av to South 4 Street

 

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[CenSin]

A second option is to send a train from 6 Av to South 4 Street

 

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South 4 Street was originally intended to be a transfer hub much like West 4 Street and Hoyt–Schermerhorn Streets. As of now, the is the only train that serves the station. What would convince the MTA to divert a quarter of 6 Avenue’s traffic to a hub served by only the Crosstown Line?

[2Line1291]

It can already do that. The MTA could practically make the swap with the at the flip of a switch.

 

 

 

The is the new . All trains go to Pelham Bay Park.

Thank you thats the game plan I was trying yo propose. Theres no more express but at least the will be run Lexington Express to Utica Ave. The isnt merging with the trains in the bronx anymore just the . I propose the <2> peak express stopping at 241st, Nereid, 233rd, 225th, 219th and Gun Hill; then going express stopping at 180th, 3rd Av and Grand Concourse. For PM peak express its the reverse.