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Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas


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It can't enter Manhattan. There are too many tunnels under 34 St.

Then route it under 23 St or something or have it share some distribution with the LIRR, NJT, Amtrak or have run into NJ as long as Penn Station is redesigned or some sort of improvement

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Edited by LGA Link N train
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Around The Horn is right. You have to underpin not only LIRR, but also the 8 Av  (A)  (C)  (E), 7 Av  (1)  (2)  (3), Broadway  (N)  (Q)  (R)  (W), 6 Av  (B)  (D)  (F)  (M), and even the Lex  (4)  (5)  (6), with the 2 Av  (T) as well. And no Amtrak or NJT would not want services in Queens since the LIRR and the subway do that job already and would be redundant.

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Then route it under 23 St or something or have it share some distribution with the LIRR, NJT, Amtrak or have run into NJ as long as Penn Station is redesigned or some sort of improvement

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But 23rd St points towards Greenpoint, Brooklyn. So if you want to run a new crosstown tunnel under 23rd, it either has to go through Greenpoint or it would have to start running diagonally under Manhattan streets in the 20s before crossing the river diagonally in order to get to Long Island City and the western end of the Lower Montauk Branch.
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Back to the current issues on the (7),

 

Flushing-Main Street needs to have tail tracks as soon as possible, because that's where the bottleneck mostly starts. It used to be Times Square as well until 34th Street open.

 

What I would do for the long term in extend the (7) to Bayside with a spur (The 11) going to Whitestone.

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By putting in tail tracks at Main St, they would be removing the only ADA-compliant access to and from the stations. Putting in elevators on the platforms and installing them at the corner(s) of Main and Roosevelt would be time-consuming and may cause the sidewalks at those corners to become even more crowded. The station platforms would certainly be more crowded with the elevator shafts eating into the platform space. And it would become much more time-consuming to make a bus connection from the (7) to the Q13, Q16 and Q28 buses on parallel 39th Ave.

 

It would be better to just jump in and do a (7) extension eastbound (toward Bayside) and/or (8) extension northbound (toward Whitestone) and put in tail tracks at the end of such extension(s). Even if there isn't sufficient money to go all the way to Bayside/Whitestone, even just one or two stations in either direction would be beneficial to many East Queens commuters. You would have to reconfigure Main St, of course. But with the (7) / (8) going further out, it wouldn't cause quite as much of an impact to its users as if you were to just install tail tracks.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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By putting in tail tracks at Main St, they would be removing the only ADA-compliant access to and from the stations. Putting in elevators on the platforms and installing them at the corner(s) of Main and Roosevelt would be time-consuming and may cause the sidewalks at those corners to become even more crowded. The station platforms would certainly be more crowded with the elevator shafts eating into the platform space. And it would become much more time-consuming to make a bus connection from the (7) to the Q13, Q16 and Q28 buses on parallel 39th Ave.

Well, to be fair, they already widened the sidewalk. Now people don’t have to walk on the road.

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But 23rd St points towards Greenpoint, Brooklyn. So if you want to run a new crosstown tunnel under 23rd, it either has to go through Greenpoint or it would have to start running diagonally under Manhattan streets in the 20s before crossing the river diagonally in order to get to Long Island City and the western end of the Lower Montauk Branch.

So.... put the LRT under ......

38 Street?????

 

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Were it not for being a narrow and mostly residential street, I'd pick 35th St. It would be close enough to make a connection with the 6th Ave and Broadway lines at Herald Square and the 8th Ave line near Penn Station. All three of those lines have entrances on 35th. Unfortunately, the Lex and 7th Ave lines would be more difficult because they are located mostly south of 34th St; Lex even more so, because it's at 33rd St. 

Maybe a detour through Greenpoint and a 23rd St alignment in Midtown wouldn't be too bad.

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1 minute ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Were it not for being a narrow and mostly residential street, I'd pick 35th St. It would be close enough to make a connection with the 6th Ave and Broadway lines at Herald Square and the 8th Ave line near Penn Station. All three of those lines have entrances on 35th. Unfortunately, the Lex and 7th Ave lines would be more difficult because they are located mostly south of 34th St; Lex even more so, because it's at 33rd St. 

Maybe a detour through Greenpoint and a 23rd St alignment in Midtown wouldn't be too bad.

That would hit all of the trunks but connect with only the local routes. That cuts the transfer opportunities in half as 50% of the trains are rumbling by the station.

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On 9/21/2017 at 6:12 PM, LGA Link N train said:

So.... put the LRT under ......

38 Street?????

 

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Stop with the LRT...

You all do know that if you will take the time punishment of the loop in sunnyside, and reactivate the Montauk Cutoff, you can send trains directly into Penn (and GCT when ESA is done) from the branch, right?

On 9/15/2017 at 8:48 PM, RR503 said:

 

They can't. As I said, they need to switch cars all day. And guess what. They have a legal right to do so. 

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/10907

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/10901

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/1170

https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/events/labor_law/2012/03/railway_airline_labor_law_committee_midwinter_meeting/mw2012rla_edelman.authcheckdam.pdf

 

Gamble.....failed. I work on the LMB for the MTA (as a consultant). 

 

 

Perfectly legal as long as crash compliant. 

 

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On 9/19/2017 at 11:13 AM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

By putting in tail tracks at Main St, they would be removing the only ADA-compliant access to and from the stations. Putting in elevators on the platforms and installing them at the corner(s) of Main and Roosevelt would be time-consuming and may cause the sidewalks at those corners to become even more crowded. The station platforms would certainly be more crowded with the elevator shafts eating into the platform space. And it would become much more time-consuming to make a bus connection from the (7) to the Q13, Q16 and Q28 buses on parallel 39th Ave.

 

It would be better to just jump in and do a (7) extension eastbound (toward Bayside) and/or (8) extension northbound (toward Whitestone) and put in tail tracks at the end of such extension(s). Even if there isn't sufficient money to go all the way to Bayside/Whitestone, even just one or two stations in either direction would be beneficial to many East Queens commuters. You would have to reconfigure Main St, of course. But with the (7) / (8) going further out, it wouldn't cause quite as much of an impact to its users as if you were to just install tail tracks.

It's not as if the elevators are smack dab in front of the tracks. You could just convert those entrances to be single direction only.

The (7) should go out to Broadway LIRR. I don't know if you could justify doing Bayside all in one go.

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On 9/27/2017 at 11:41 PM, bobtehpanda said:

It's not as if the elevators are smack dab in front of the tracks. You could just convert those entrances to be single direction only.

The (7) should go out to Broadway LIRR. I don't know if you could justify doing Bayside all in one go.

They could definitely get around the elevator and escalators by widening the tunnel starting mid-station. The middle track could continue straight without demolishing anything of importance. The open space could be used to create a mezzanine level for the elevator to stop at with a ramp down to the eastbound platform. Roosevelt Avenue currently has only low-rise buildings up to Union Street. The tracks have enough space to merge into a narrow two-track tunnel by Union Street.

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On 9/15/2017 at 4:58 PM, D to 96 St said:

Well as I mentioned before it should be a light-rail because IDK which subway line would go there.

Light rail stops are at:

Long Island City

Maspeth-Grand Av

Ridgewood-Fresh Pond

Glendale-Atlas Park Shops

Forest Park-Union Tpke

Richmond Hill-Myrtle Av

Jamaica Station (Terminus)

Potential Extension:

Hollis-193 St

Queens Village-218 St

Belmont Park

IMO this is the only use I can think of for the Lower Montauk.

same, unless a transit hub at Sunnyside yards was built

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Anyone remembers Cuomo's AirTrain proposal?? If so then the only way to have it properly built is by 

A) Having it Stop at one of the LIRR platforms  (probably an abandoned one)

B) it must have an underground embankment to connect the station and GCP 

C) it must be built to accommodate the weight of subway trains, this way so that the (N) and (W) can run to LGA and Willets Point 

D) Building the LGA AirTrain with NYC subway specs would mean that the NIMBY'S of the LGA Link extension of the (N)(W) won't even get to shoot it down thanks to the AirTrain 

Anyone see where I'm going with this???

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On 9/18/2017 at 6:56 PM, D to 96 St said:

Around The Horn is right. You have to underpin not only LIRR, but also the 8 Av  (A)  (C)  (E), 7 Av  (1)  (2)  (3), Broadway  (N)  (Q)  (R)  (W), 6 Av  (B)  (D)  (F)  (M), and even the Lex  (4)  (5)  (6), with the 2 Av  (T) as well.

true

And no Amtrak or NJT would not want services in Queens since the LIRR and the subway do that job already

But doing so would not only alleviate congestion in Penn Station, it would also create a "Regional Unified Network" (RethinkNYC reference)

and would be redundant.

Not if trains are well scheduled and 

RUN ^;)

 

 

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Then it will stop on Broadway-Lafayette St then it will enter 2 Av on the center track where the new line will start

New (E)

Avenue C/ Houston St

Brooklyn

Bedford Av/Grand St

Marcy Av/South 4 St

Union Av/ South 4 St Transfer for (G) at Broadway  (J)(M) at Hewes St

Montrose Av/ Bushwick Av Transfer for (L)

Flushing Av/Bushwick Av

Myrtle Av/ Stuyvesant Av Transfer for (J)(M)(Z)

Lafayette Av/ Stuyvesant Av

Gates Av/ Stuyvesant Av

Halsey St/ Stuyvesant Av

Fulton St/Stuyvesant-Utica Avs Transfer for (A)(C)

Bergen St/Utica Av

Eastern Pkwy/Utica Av Transfer for (3)(4)

Rutland Rd/Utica Av

Linden Blvd/Utica Av

Avenue D/ Utica Av

Kings Hwy/Utica Av

Flatlands Av/Utica Av

Avenue N/ Utica Av

Kings Plaza-Avenue U/Flatbush Av

tell me your thoughts

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11 hours ago, subwaykid256 said:

Then it will stop on Broadway-Lafayette St then it will enter 2 Av on the center track where the new line will start

New (E)

Avenue C/ Houston St

Brooklyn

Bedford Av/Grand St

Marcy Av/South 4 St

Union Av/ South 4 St Transfer for (G) at Broadway  (J)(M) at Hewes St

Montrose Av/ Bushwick Av Transfer for (L)

Flushing Av/Bushwick Av

Myrtle Av/ Stuyvesant Av Transfer for (J)(M)(Z)

Lafayette Av/ Stuyvesant Av

Gates Av/ Stuyvesant Av

Halsey St/ Stuyvesant Av

Fulton St/Stuyvesant-Utica Avs Transfer for (A)(C)

Bergen St/Utica Av

Eastern Pkwy/Utica Av Transfer for (3)(4)

Rutland Rd/Utica Av

Linden Blvd/Utica Av

Avenue D/ Utica Av

Kings Hwy/Utica Av

Flatlands Av/Utica Av

Avenue N/ Utica Av

Kings Plaza-Avenue U/Flatbush Av

tell me your thoughts

Weren't the (B) and (D) supposed to do that

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Not sure if already proposed, but what if the (7) line had a second number line to share the the tracks as Astoria currently. For example both trains would originate (or terminate) at Main St.,  (7) proceeds to 34th while the second line would either turn uptown or downtown in Manhattan via either Lex or 7th Ave.

Also one train would switch to the other at Main St if two of the same kind arrive. 

Edited by Ntrainfave
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6 hours ago, Ntrainfave said:

Not sure if already proposed, but what if the (7) line had a second number line to share the the tracks as Astoria currently. For example both trains would originate (or terminate) at Main St.,  (7) proceeds to 34th while the second line would either turn uptown or downtown in Manhattan via either Lex or 7th Ave.

Also one train would switch to the other at Main St if two of the same kind arrive. 

 

There's already a bad bottleneck between the (7) and <7> at Queensboro Plaza, and the Steinway is pretty much at capacity. Adding a third service would really not help. (Not sure exactly what you're suggesting, either, but it seems like it would go through the Steinway and that's not feasible)

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If you have a second purple numbered service - an 8 maybe - that goes north-south in Manhattan only that connects with existing the (7) <7> tunnel where it turns onto 11th Avenue,  then that would be more likely to work. Though you would certainly have to have a signaling system that could handle much more than 30 tph, (and actually do it) in order to preserve the existing (7) <7> headways, plus be able to run the 8 on relatively frequent headways too.

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On 10/8/2017 at 11:24 PM, subwaykid256 said:

Then it will stop on Broadway-Lafayette St then it will enter 2 Av on the center track where the new line will start

New (E)

Avenue C/ Houston St

Brooklyn

Bedford Av/Grand St

Marcy Av/South 4 St

Union Av/ South 4 St Transfer for (G) at Broadway  (J)(M) at Hewes St

Montrose Av/ Bushwick Av Transfer for (L)

Flushing Av/Bushwick Av

Myrtle Av/ Stuyvesant Av Transfer for (J)(M)(Z)

Lafayette Av/ Stuyvesant Av

Gates Av/ Stuyvesant Av

Halsey St/ Stuyvesant Av

Fulton St/Stuyvesant-Utica Avs Transfer for (A)(C)

Bergen St/Utica Av

Eastern Pkwy/Utica Av Transfer for (3)(4)

Rutland Rd/Utica Av

Linden Blvd/Utica Av

Avenue D/ Utica Av

Kings Hwy/Utica Av

Flatlands Av/Utica Av

Avenue N/ Utica Av

Kings Plaza-Avenue U/Flatbush Av

tell me your thoughts

Are you proposing to reroute the (E) off the 8th Ave Line at West 4th St, then via the (F)(M) to Broadway-Lafayette to accomplish all this? I can’t imagine how much of a choke point that’s going to be. And you wouldn’t be able to run this (E) very frequently because it would have to share tracks with the (F) and (M) between Broadway-Lafayette and West 4th, then the (C) upon returning to its current route. For a line that’s going to be on its own for most of the way, this isn’t an issue you want to have.

I’d much prefer to do a Utica Ave subway connected either to the Fulton St or Canarsie subways, where there is - potentially - capacity to accommodate another branch line (especially the Fulton St subway).

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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