Letter line Codenames

[TheNewYorkElevated]

I have noticed that the lettered lines have codenames (example: for Delta). What are all of the letter line's codenames? I have figure out some of the defunct lines myself. One we already know what it is. 

 

QB- Queens-Brighton

QJ- (Today's <J>)- Queens-Jamaica

MJ- Myrtle-Jay 

CC- Concourse 

[Union Tpke]

I have noticed that the lettered lines have codenames (example: for Delta). What are all of the letter line's codenames? I have figure out some of the defunct lines myself. One we already know what it is. 

 

QB- Queens-Brighton

QJ- (Today's <J>)- Queens-Jamaica

MJ- Myrtle-Jay 

CC- Concourse 

 

QB is Q via Bridge

QJ is Q go Jamaica

QT is the Q via Tunnel.

The CC is wrong.

There are no others. Sorry.

[B46 via Utica]

-Apple

-Bravo

-Charlie

-Delta

-Echols

-Fox

-George

-shuttle

-?

-Kevin or Kelly when in service

-Larry

-Mikey (sometimes Mary)

-Nancy

-Quincy

-Romeo

-Victor

-Wilbert

-? Not a code name for , .

 

For the defunct double letter lines they were all based on locations they went to.

[LTA1992]

I wouldn't call the Phonetic Alphabet a "codename". Some are changed due to the associated word likely being easier to remember.

 

 is Juliet (unless they changed it like the did Apple instead of Alpha.

 

 is Zulu unless they changed it to something else for their use.

[Eric B]

They're making them go back to the military standard (Alpha, etc.) Z I think is "zebra".

 

I don't think C was specifically named for Concourse; it just happened to match. The IND scheme was the A as the original Wash Hts-8 Ave line, C as the first branch, to Concourse, and the E as Queens; and B, D, F as the later 6th Ave. companions to those routes. G and H were basically miscellaneous lines (off of the Manhattan trunk routes).

 

On the BMT, the letters were added much later, and in some cases, it did match the line, as with J, M and QB/QT. These were made official in the Chrystie map completing the merger of the BMT and IND, though the base letters were first allocated beginning with R27 signs, but not used in the eastern div. yet. M was unofficially used for southern division rush hour specials, and then a proposed map that included letters for the BMT East had Myrtle as KK, but the M was likely allocated for Myrtle (which was still express, hence single letter), and the KK for the former #14 Bway Bklyn (which was lmarked a branch of the JJ on both that map, and the Christie map,which was when QJ and MJ were added as well).

[itmaybeokay]

I have noticed that the lettered lines have codenames (example: for Delta). What are all of the letter line's codenames?

 

It's less that they're "codenames", but it's standard practice in two-way radio communications to use a "phonetic alphabet" instead of just saying the letter. Since radio reception isn't always clear as a bell this is done to avoid confusion. B and C and D and E can sound very similar amid static or a broken transmission, so can J and K and A... well you get the idea. A phonetic alphabet assigns a word to each letter which is distinctive even if only a portion of it is heard. NYCT uses a weird mix of NATO phonetics and their own words. 

 

-Apple

-Bravo

-Charlie

-Delta

-Echols

-Fox

-George

-shuttle

-?

-Kevin or Kelly when in service

-Larry

-Mikey (sometimes Mary)

-Nancy

-Quincy

-Romeo

-Victor

-Wilbert

-? Not a code name for , .

 

For the defunct double letter lines they were all based on locations they went to.

 

I have heard, possibly more often than not, the N/Q using callsigns based on the proper NATO phoenetics (November/Quebec) 

 

Never heard the L use a Larry callsign on the radio. Pretty sure they almost exclusively use Lima. 

 

I'm curious how they'll call the W when it comes back. If we went by NATO phonetics it would be the "Whiskey" train. I feel like there will he hesitance to use that callsign by RCC but zeal to use it by train crews. 

 

J definitely uses Juliet. 

 

They're making them go back to the military standard (Alpha, etc.) Z I think is "zebra".

 If they're going back to Milcom phonetics Z would be "Zulu" 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet

 

I wonder if they'll ever make NYPD go to nato standard. Their phonetic alphabet is exclusive to them as it stands at the moment. 

[bobtehpanda]

They're making them go back to the military standard (Alpha, etc.) Z I think is "zebra".

 

I don't think C was specifically named for Concourse; it just happened to match. The IND scheme was the A as the original Wash Hts-8 Ave line, C as the first branch, to Concourse, and the E as Queens; and B, D, F as the later 6th Ave. companions to those routes. G and H were basically miscellaneous lines (off of the Manhattan trunk routes).

 

On the BMT, the letters were added much later, and in some cases, it did match the line, as with J, M and QB/QT. These were made official in the Chrystie map completing the merger of the BMT and IND, though the base letters were first allocated beginning with R27 signs, but not used in the eastern div. yet. M was unofficially used for southern division rush hour specials, and then a proposed map that included letters for the BMT East had Myrtle as KK, but the M was likely allocated for Myrtle (which was still express, hence single letter), and the KK for the former #14 Bway Bklyn (which was lmarked a branch of the JJ on both that map, and the Christie map,which was when QJ and MJ were added as well).

 

If you think about the old service patterns, the lines were lettered according to where their northern termini were, from west to east. 

[Jsunflyguy]

Exactly, for example the QT was the Brighton Tunnel route, the QB was the Bright-Bridge route and the QJ is the Brighton-Jamaica route. There's a rational to the more exotic South Brooklyn routes.

[Eric B]

If you think about the old service patterns, the lines were lettered according to where their northern termini were, from west to east. 

Yeah, that happened to match the order in which they opened (if it's the IND you're talkign about), and this probably based on the demand, being more populous from west to east (first upper Manhattan, then the Bronx, then Queens).

[Snowblock]

We use the standard phonetic alphabet for all of our lines (yes, the official designation for is ALFA not Apple, although the latter is commonly used anyway). Some crews do their own versions, like Dog for or Beyonce for but that isn't what is taught.

 

Yes, the new will be Whiskey, as was the old one.

[Around the Horn]

We use the standard phonetic alphabet for all of our lines (yes, the official designation for is ALFA not Apple, although the latter is commonly used anyway). Some crews do their own versions, like Dog for or Beyonce for but that isn't what is taught.

 

Yes, the new will be Whiskey, as was the old one.

Yeah, there's always one guy on the and one guy on the that says "(b) as in Beyonce" when announcing the train or that transfer is available to the

[Eric B]

Also should mention, the common alternate name for was "November".

[itmaybeokay]

Also should mention, the common alternate name for was "November".

 

Arguably that's the correct name 

 

As was mentioned apparently the nato standard phoenetics are now the standard. Though from what I've heard on the radio nancy still gets a lot of airtime too. 

[kaciezr]

I have noticed that the lettered lines have codenames (example: for Delta). What are all of the letter line's codenames? I have figure out some of the defunct lines myself. One we already know what it is. 

 

QB- Queens-Brighton

QJ- (Today's <J>)- Queens-Jamaica

MJ- Myrtle-Jay 

CC- Concourse

 

To add on to what others have said about why this isn't quite right... Today's didn't serve Queens until the 63rd Street line and Queensbridge station opened. The label wasn't really used until Chrystie Street in 1967, by which time it was already truncated to 57th/7th. So the Q doesn't stand for Queens... it basically refers to the Brighton line actually.

 

It particularly wouldn't make sense for the QJ, since Jamaica is in Queens. If your logic was right, that would have been called something like JB for Jamaica-Brighton instead.

[Eric B]

The letters were still allocated on the new signs in 1960, and at that time, the Q and QB went to Astoria, and the QT went to Forest Hills. In 1961, they switched them around so that the Q only went to 57th, and the QT and RR swapped terminals. The letters for the southern divisision also began appearing on maps with the World's Fair edition.

QJ was from the Chrystie st. change, when they merged the J with the QT basically, and the thinking had changed regarding the lettering pattern, so they just combined the letters assigned to the previous separate routes. (RJ as well).

[kaciezr]

Oh yeah, there were definitely times pre-63rd Street when the Q/QB/QT did go into Queens... but that still doesn't mean that the Q stands for Queens like he claimed... The tradition with the BMT lines seems to be that the letter stays with the southern half of the route, which is why the N/NX have always been on the Sea Beach, the R/RR/RJ always went to Bay Ridge, and the Q/QB/QT/QJ have always been on the Brighton (save for the occasional construction reroute of course).

[T J Trainman]

I wonder what the T will be?

[Eric B]

Now, with the mandate to stick with the official (NATO?) terms, most likely whatever that is.

Oh yeah, there were definitely times pre-63rd Street when the Q/QB/QT did go into Queens... but that still doesn't mean that the Q stands for Queens like he claimed... The tradition with the BMT lines seems to be that the letter stays with the southern half of the route, which is why the N/NX have always been on the Sea Beach, the R/RR/RJ always went to Bay Ridge, and the Q/QB/QT/QJ have always been on the Brighton (save for the occasional construction reroute of course).

Yes, the BMT was southoriented, but since the Brighton is what consistently went to Queens when the letters were given, that was likely what it was connected with. Then, route changes would maintain the south-orientation where the letter is more associated with the Brooklyn route, so that the Q (exp.) for instance, could be cut back from Queens beginning in the '61 changes.

 

Now here's some wild idea that was apparentely once considered, I had never seen before http://www.businessinsider.com/1970s-nyc-subway-map-that-never-was-2013-6, of completely rearranging most of the letters, so that even the IRT is letters (it seems one letter will cover both express and local on a route, which is how they are able to stretch the alphabet out to the whole system. It also includes stuff not built, such as the full SAS, lettered T with the light blue color; wonder if that's where they got it from, and even other things like the Ave. C cuphandle. Looks so much like people's ideas here today! Also saw a subway map made to look like a penis, with Manhattan as the "shaft", naturally!)

[Lance]

I wonder what the T will be?

Most likely tango, not that we'll ever have to worry about that...

 

Now here's some wild idea that was apparentely once considered, I had never seen before http://www.businessinsider.com/1970s-nyc-subway-map-that-never-was-2013-6, of completely rearranging most of the letters, so that even the IRT is letters (it seems one letter will cover both express and local on a route, which is how they are able to stretch the alphabet out to the whole system. It also includes stuff not built, such as the full SAS, lettered T with the light blue color; wonder if that's where they got it from, and even other things like the Ave. C cuphandle. Looks so much like people's ideas here today! Also saw a subway map made to look like a penis, with Manhattan as the "shaft", naturally!)

The newly formed MTA had a lot of ideas, some of which left a lot to be desired. Case in point, this. In an effort to eliminate some of the confusion regarding the route designations (remember, the Chrystie St disaster wasn't that far in the past at the time this map came out), the agency had commissioned this map which consolidated the routes into a full alphabetical setup. Of course, combining so many different routes into one letter designation would've likely led to more confusion, not less, which was why this approach was never adapted.

 

Regarding the routes, this map is a product of its time. As this came out around the same time the '68 Program for Action was being approved and modified, the new routes were incorporated into the design. Specifically Phase I, which included the Archer Ave line to Springfield Blvd, the Horace Harding/LIE line to Kissena Blvd and the extension of the Nostrand Ave line among others.

 

On the subject of the map as a whole, there were in fact two versions of this map produced: the one linked above with the PfA routes and another without the proposed new construction. I'll see if I can find a copy of it around later. And one more thing, the map overlay was the same one used since late '67 when the first part of Chrystie was put into effect.

[Eric B]

I remember there was also this other wild proposal, and I forgot exactly how it went, but IIRC, used all numbers or combinations of numbers and letters for each route, which were used to somehow divide the lines up into groups or something.

[LTA1992]

I remember there was also this other wild proposal, and I forgot exactly how it went, but IIRC, used all numbers or combinations of numbers and letters for each route, which were used to somehow divide the lines up into groups or something.

Yeah, it was a letter/number combo. The letter was the trunk line and the number was the branch. For example, the could have been the F1 or something. F for Seventh Avenue Line, 1 for the Van Cortlandt branch. That combo may or may not have been right, but that was the idea.

[Around the Horn]

Yeah, it was a letter/number combo. The letter was the trunk line and the number was the branch. For example, the could have been the F1 or something. F for Seventh Avenue Line, 1 for the Van Cortlandt branch. That combo may or may not have been right, but that was the idea.

That was Salamon(sp?). They ended up using only his map.

[Eric B]

Salomon was the guy who did the 1958-66 maps, right? So this was his idea for the Chrystie changes had he remained the mapmaker?

Are there any links to that (I knw I've seen it before); just looking up his name isn't urning up anything.

[bobtehpanda]

Salomon was the guy who did the 1958-66 maps, right? So this was his idea for the Chrystie changes had he remained the mapmaker?

Are there any links to that (I knw I've seen it before); just looking up his name isn't urning up anything.

 

As far as I know Salomon never actually made a working sketch of his proposal, but this is a very Salomon style map.

[Around the Horn]

As far as I know Salomon never actually made a working sketch of his proposal, but this is a very Salomon style map.

Yeah, he never made a sketch of his proposal. As far as I know he never showed it to them. But he did work on it on the side...