Enhanced Station Initiative

[RR503]

48 minutes ago, Deucey said:

MTA board: “Alright, FINE Andrew!!! Put your lipsticks on pigs.”

The City’s board members voted no.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-votes-cuomo-1b-plan-pretty-subway-stations-article-1.3836591

Whelp, looks like another 200 mil worth of debt service is “coming soon to a turnstile near you!” 

Shame on them. Do the component repairs and then gtfo of the stations unless you’re adding something of substance (stair cap, ADA, etc). In this day and age, this sort of capital spending constitutes an abdication of the agency’s responsibility to provide at least passable service to New Yorkers. 

If only Byford had the political capital to cancel Cuomo’s makeovers... The man has limits, I guess.

Edited February 23, 2018 by RR503

[m7zanr160s]

I'm all for these station enhancements. If I've got to spend time waiting for my train, I at least want to spend it waiting in something that's clean, nice looking, and modern, instead of a station that looks like the MTA forgot existed.

[LGA Link N Train]

2 minutes ago, m7zanr160s said:

I'm all for these station enhancements. If I've got to spend time waiting for my train, I at least want to spend it waiting in something that's clean, nice looking, and modern, instead of a station that looks like the MTA forgot existed.

(A-hem) ...... Chambers Street

[WestFarms36]

1 minute ago, LGA Link N train said:

(A-hem) ...... Chambers Street

Unfortunately Chambers St can't qualify for ESI Because it is too big of a station and would take more than 6 months to renovate, Chambers St needs more of a $2.4 Billion renovation shutting down the entire station for 14 Months to rip everything out, waterproof, refurbish, install, and re-open.

[LGA Link N Train]

Just now, WestFarms36 said:

Unfortunately Chambers St can't qualify for ESI Because it is too big of a station and would take more than 6 months to renovate, Chambers St needs more of a $2.4 Billion renovation shutting down the entire station for 14 Months to rip everything out, waterproof, refurbish, install, and re-open.

Well, you're not wrong and I believe that any rehabilitation involving Chambers should be under a bigger project to rehabilitate the Nassau St line from Bowery - Chambers.

[Coney Island Av]

Is the  heavily used enough to even warrant a station renovation? I'm asking this because people keep saying that despite the fact Lower Manhattan is a busy district, but Nassau is underutilized. 

[RR503]

24 minutes ago, m7zanr160s said:

I'm all for these station enhancements. If I've got to spend time waiting for my train, I at least want to spend it waiting in something that's clean, nice looking, and modern, instead of a station that looks like the MTA forgot existed.

I’m for not having to wait for said trains. We should be working on cures for these issues, not morphine for them.  

And Chambers is gross, but it’s functional as a station. That’s more than we can say for Canal — those stairs are a safety hazard. And again. That’s what we should be spending on. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by RR503

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

Is the  heavily used enough to even warrant a station renovation? I'm asking this because people keep saying that despite the fact Lower Manhattan is a busy district, but Nassau is underutilized. 

You're asking this question about our Financial District?  That's like asking if we should renovate the Wall Street station on the  when it was done... 

4 minutes ago, RR503 said:

I’m for not having to wait for said trains. We should be working on cures for these issues, not morphine for them.  

And Chambers is gross, but it’s functional as a station. That’s more than we can say for Canal — those stairs are a safety hazard. And again. That’s what we should be spending on. 

I'm sorry but we cannot just throw all of the money at signaling.  Most of the stations that are being renovated need it.  I for one am sick of using the piss smelling rank station at 47-50th.  It's big, it's dirty and it's disgusting, and even more so in the heart of Midtown to have a station looking like that. 

[WestFarms36]

15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You're asking this question about our Financial District?  That's like asking if we should renovate the Wall Street station on the  when it was done... 

I'm sorry but we cannot just throw all of the money at signaling.  Most of the stations that are being renovated need it.  I for one am sick of using the piss smelling rank station at 47-50th.  It's big, it's dirty and it's disgusting, and even more so in the heart of Midtown to have a station looking like that. 

I can agree I've been there it is disgusting seeing bums piss on the station, and in the heart of midtown looking like mediocre sh*t

[Lance]

¿Por qué no los dos? Both the stations and the general infrastructure need a lot of work to get them out of the past. While there is too much focus on the finishes as part of the program, a lot of the work for the ESI rehabs is being done behind the scenes to actually fix these stations, hopefully so they won't have to touch them again for a while. It's not all just fancy lights and countdown clocks. There are other repairs and preventative work being done at these stations so they don't leak, that there's better passenger flow, etc. Also keep in mind that a lot of these stations haven't seen a rehab in decades. Even if they weren't part of the ESI program, they'd still be facing intermittent closures for repairs in the near future, likely without any of the features seen in the ESI rebuilds, but probably at similar costs to them. Sure, the signals and tracks play an important part in keeping the subway moving, but so do the stations. The entire subway needs to be modernized, not just certain aspects of it.

13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You're asking this question about our Financial District?  That's like asking if we should renovate the Wall Street station on the  when it was done... 

Even worse is that Chambers St is almost directly beneath City Hall. You'd think that would create some kind of incentive to do something about the dungeon there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, Lance said:

¿Por qué no los dos? Both the stations and the general infrastructure need a lot of work to get them out of the past. While there is too much focus on the finishes as part of the program, a lot of the work for the ESI rehabs is being done behind the scenes to actually fix these stations, hopefully so they won't have to touch them again for a while. It's not all just fancy lights and countdown clocks. There are other repairs and preventative work being done at these stations so they don't leak, that there's better passenger flow, etc. Also keep in mind that a lot of these stations haven't seen a rehab in decades. Even if they weren't part of the ESI program, they'd still be facing intermittent closures for repairs in the near future, likely without any of the features seen in the ESI rebuilds, but probably at similar costs to them. Sure, the signals and tracks play an important part in keeping the subway moving, but so do the stations. The entire subway needs to be modernized, not just certain aspects of it.

Even worse is that Chambers St is almost directly beneath City Hall. You'd think that would create some kind of incentive to do something about the dungeon there.

Case-in-point.... 81st Street along the  is really starting to fall apart. Every time I'm in that station (e.g. this morning), there is water leaking all over the platform and it really is starting to deteriorate.  Circumstances like that lead to the station rapidly falling apart, and before you know it, it needs a massive overhaul similar to Canal Street.  

Chambers Street... I don't know what's up with that station but it is indeed pitiful.  I wish the one on the  line were up for a rehab.  Really disgusting.

6 minutes ago, WestFarms36 said:

I can agree I've been there it is disgusting seeing bums piss on the station, and in the heart of midtown looking like mediocre sh*t

What I would really like done at Pen Station is for them run out the homeless people.  They destroy the station (eat everywhere and spill crap all over the place).  The station is filthy and then they have cardboard laid out everywhere sleeping.  I don't see the point of renovating if the place is still going to be overrun with homeless people.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[WestFarms36]

Bowery qualifies for ESI because it isn't a big station, requires lots of component replacement and its in pure state of deterioration, and @RR503 if your saying that Chambers street is "fine" then I recommend you check the logs for that station, the station that Suspended and service on rush hour because a piece of ceiling collapsed on the tracks blocking off service, Chambers St needs a down to the Foundation rehabilitation because it has been under years of neglect I agree with @Via Garibaldi 8 stations that need renovations NEED to be renovated and not treated as if MTA never knew it has existed. Will it take for the station to collapse on people for MTA to finally rehab? Its better start now with the resoureces, there is money specifically allocated for Station rehab and should be used on those stations, no one wants to wait in a station that looks like a hell hole, and highly unsafe.

Edited February 23, 2018 by WestFarms36
Addition.

[MysteriousBtrain]

As long as we are on the topic of Chambers Street, I think the best thing to rehab the Station is to cut service south of the station and split the project into two phases. Phase 1 would have all service terminate at the west Island platform, then phase 2 use the two innermost tracks with part is the west Platform closed off or temporarily reopening the middle platform until the project is completed. 

[LGA Link N Train]

19 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

As long as we are on the topic of Chambers Street, I think the best thing to rehab the Station is to cut service south of the station and split the project into two phases. Phase 1 would have all service terminate at the west Island platform, then phase 2 use the two innermost tracks with part is the west Platform closed off or temporarily reopening the middle platform until the project is completed. 

I'd rather do something Alternate. 

NASSAU REHABILITATION PROJECT!!!

Bowery, Canal, and Chambers would be closed for FULL Rehabilitation......

The segment between Bowery and Canal Street should be studied in a way to realign the pillars to allow for wider platforms and curves (kinda like the Fulton Center project), along with a side project to expand the Canal Street  platforms. The former northbound local track should be served as relay along with some of that space reserved as an employee platform

Chambers Street would be completely closed off to allow for a proper rehab while remaining with it's original track setup so that it can continue to serve as a terminal for certain G.O.'s. 

trains terminate at Essex Street on a regular basis with the serving it's full time route

A shuttle will serve Fulton Center and Broad Street during this time period. 

the    and  trains serve as alternatives

 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by LGA Link N train

[WestFarms36]

18 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

As long as we are on the topic of Chambers Street, I think the best thing to rehab the Station is to cut service south of the station and split the project into two phases. Phase 1 would have all service terminate at the west Island platform, then phase 2 use the two innermost tracks with part is the west Platform closed off or temporarily reopening the middle platform until the project is completed. 

That idea doesn't sound bad, and I would also recommend them covering up the abandoned platforms on the sides of the station and MTA use that space for either Crew Quarters, another RTO District, or Equipment Storage. I feel that they should also add Bowery to the ESI List, that station would benefit an intensive 6 month rehab and upgrade, it would give the station More Character in the Financial District.

[WestFarms36]

1 minute ago, LGA Link N train said:

I'd rather do something Alternate. 

NASSAU REHABILITATION PROJECT!!!

Bowery, Canal, and Chambers would be closed for FULL Rehabilitation......

The segment between Bowery and Canal Street should be studied in a way to realign the pillars to allow for wider platforms and curves (kinda like the Fulton Center project), along with a side project to expand the Canal Street  platforms. The former northbound local track should be served as relay along with some of that space reserved as an employee platform

Chambers Street would be completely closed off to allow for a proper rehab while remaining with it's original track setup so that it can continue to serve as a terminal for certain G.O.'s. 

trains terminate at Essex Street on a regular basis with the serving it's full time route

A shuttle will serve Fulton Center and Broad Street during this time period. 

the    and  trains serve as alternatives

 

 

I can agree with you on your plan and point. I feel that the Nassau Line needs a refreshment starting with Chambers St, Instituting a Weekend and Late Night Shuttle Bus Service running between Essex - Broad St, late nights running from 11:30pm - 7:00am. And use other lines as alternatives.

[WestFarms36]

Also Bedford Avenue on the can be under the ESI Program, if they start in June, they can be done by December, 4 months prior to the Shutdown in Manhattan, it would be convenient to have a rehabbed Terminal and then the Manhattan Stations can be rehabilitated during the Tunnel Closure so by the time that the reopens it has newly renovated and up to date stations in Manhattan, I'd also suggest MTA cleaning their R143's they looked like they last got cleaned in 2002...

Edited February 23, 2018 by WestFarms36

[RR503]

56 minutes ago, WestFarms36 said:

Bowery qualifies for ESI because it isn't a big station, requires lots of component replacement and its in pure state of deterioration, and @RR503 if your saying that Chambers street is "fine" then I recommend you check the logs for that station, the station that Suspended and service on rush hour because a piece of ceiling collapsed on the tracks blocking off service, Chambers St needs a down to the Foundation rehabilitation because it has been under years of neglect I agree with @Via Garibaldi 8 stations that need renovations NEED to be renovated and not treated as if MTA never knew it has existed. Will it take for the station to collapse on people for MTA to finally rehab? Its better start now with the resoureces, there is money specifically allocated for Station rehab and should be used on those stations, no one wants to wait in a station that looks like a hell hole, and highly unsafe.

A wall panel at 86th st on the  fell off and stopped service on said line for half a day...and that station was renovated just a few years ago. I’m all for component repairs and targeted renovations, but citing just one incident doesnt convince me of anything. Accidents happen. Bowery, Chambers et al may be gross, dusty hellholes, but you must remember that ESI costs more than just a normal cosmetic station renovation, raising questions about the programs necessity, and that even with roof panels falling, the stations that have the highest impact on train service and customer experience are the ones where crowding is hindering efficiency — i e none of the low-ridership local stops ESI addresses. 

That’s why I object to this. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by RR503

[Around the Horn]

58 minutes ago, Lance said:

Even worse is that Chambers St is almost directly beneath City Hall. You'd think that would create some kind of incentive to do something about the dungeon there.

That's exactly the problem... It's virtually impossible to do a top to bottom renovation since its literally the only thing holding up the municipal building

[WestFarms36]

2 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

That's exactly the problem... It's virtually impossible to do a top to bottom renovation since its literally the only thing holding up the municipal building

Now with modern day Technology and more advanced construction methods nothing is impossible and MTA Should be looking towards rehabilitating Chambers Street, and it is not necessary to replace the pillars if its supporting the station, the pillars can get a new layer of concrete and tiles, the station should also be waterproofed in the process to have the station last for about 30-40 years until it gets rehabilitated again... But Chambers St needs a rehabilitation unfortunately, a catastrophe will soon happen, and that station can't be on Life Support forever and at some point we all will need to realize that a rehabilitation would be the last resort to keep the station standing for the next 30-40 years. The conditions down there are disgusting, dangerous, hazarsous, disgraceful, pitiful, deplorable, and the station itself is being ignored and left to look like a Shithole, if the station ain't gonna get attention then we all better pray a 181 St Incident doesn't happen down there. That station is more of a dungeon than anything else, if nothing will be done, well as much put up Scaffolding inside the station or lower the ceiling clearance to a more appropiate height and renovate the bottom half of the station.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

47 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

That's exactly the problem... It's virtually impossible to do a top to bottom renovation since its literally the only thing holding up the municipal building

What a ridiculous excuse in 2018....

[Lance]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

56 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

That's exactly the problem... It's virtually impossible to do a top to bottom renovation since its literally the only thing holding up the municipal building

What a ridiculous excuse in 2018....

I also find that hard to believe. It's not like they have to blow up the station with C4 or something, though that might be an improvement on the whole situation . Seriously though, and before I get put on a list, it would not be impossible to do a complete rehab of Chambers St while maintaining the structures above. It's just become such a massive undertaking with the decades of neglect that it falls well outside of the scope of the ESI project. Of course, if it's left as is without any kind of renovation, it's only going to get worse.

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

As long as we are on the topic of Chambers Street, I think the best thing to rehab the Station is to cut service south of the station and split the project into two phases. Phase 1 would have all service terminate at the west Island platform, then phase 2 use the two innermost tracks with part is the west Platform closed off or temporarily reopening the middle platform until the project is completed. 

The best thing they could do is connect the northbound track from Fulton St to the disused express track at Chambers and run the station as a 3-track/2-island - closing off the other platforms behind a wall like they did Bowery.

But I gather they would’ve done that if it was possible and not expensive.

 

[WestFarms36]

19 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What a ridiculous excuse in 2018....

With modern day construction methods there is no excuse to not rehab the station, either it gets done now or it collapses on people. Chambers Street cannot be put on hold and that is the problem, People putting important projects on hold because they feel it be better off having a station collapse on people or a train than do the repairs when the opportunity is available, this Procrastination has caused MTA to get to the problems, and state of disrepair that it is in right now.

[RR503]

4 hours ago, Lance said:

While there is too much focus on the finishes as part of the program, a lot of the work for the ESI rehabs is being done behind the scenes to actually fix these stations, hopefully so they won't have to touch them again for a while. It's not all just fancy lights and countdown clocks. There are other repairs and preventative work being done at these stations so they don't leak, that there's better passenger flow, etc. Also keep in mind that a lot of these stations haven't seen a rehab in decades. Even if they weren't part of the ESI program, they'd still be facing intermittent closures for repairs in the near future, likely without any of the features seen in the ESI rebuilds, but probably at similar costs to them. Sure, the signals and tracks play an important part in keeping the subway moving, but so do the stations. The entire subway needs to be modernized, not just certain aspects of it.

I’m absolutely with you that stations are part of the issue. And I understand station environment matters — a little part of my gut dies every time I go to Chambers st — but I think you’re giving ESI too much credit. Sure, it takes care of component repairs too, but it does so while spending on average $15 million more than past renovations. That may sound like statistical error in this day of 12 billion dollar commuter rail stations, but multiplied across 32 projects, that’s $480 million extra dollars that taxpayers are on the hook for — and with little to show for it. No ADA. No new stairs. No new entrances. No better mezzanines. What’s most disgusting about all this though is that ESI isn’t even addressing the worst stations. Fully half of the ones chosen are not in the 100 worst stops in terms of component issues, begging the question as to why they’re being renovated.  

Edited February 23, 2018 by RR503