Explosion In Subway Near Port Authority

[NY1635]

I don't understand why a suicide bomber would pick Time Square or the Port Authority Terminal given that both are hard to navigate around. The failed plot makes me feel like we're dealing with a pack of Wile E. Coyotes instead of Islamic criminal masterminds.

[GojiMet86]

Why bother going deep undercover like the four 9/11 pilots when some random, expendable guy with no connection can just follow instructions online. It becomes that much harder to predict. Times Square is the busiest and most crowded station in the system. Not that hard to see why he chose it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

I don't understand why a suicide bomber would pick Time Square or the Port Authority Terminal given that both are hard to navigate around. The failed plot makes me feel like we're dealing with a pack of Wile E. Coyotes instead of Islamic criminal masterminds.

You really don't understand why? Who cares how "hard" they are to navigate.  Both have THOUSANDS of people going through them each and every day.  The goal of terrorists is always to kill the most amount of people at once.  This guy wanted to blow himself up and take whoever else he could with him.  We need to wake up and get with the program here.  I'm sure someone will yell that I'm racist and I'm fine with that, but when you have these crazy people looking to kill innocent people you have to profile as a former NYPD detective said this morning on TV.  They profiled the mafia... They've profiled various gangs... It's the same here. No different.  People all have patterns that they follow, just like mass murders and serial killers.  I'm also glad to hear that Trump is determined to take more measures to protect our country from such individuals.  It will never stop because these people hate Americans and the Western way of life.

I dealt with the same crap when I lived in Europe. The Europeans get it.  It's time for America to stop being so politically correct.

[biGC323232]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You really don't understand why? Who cares how "hard" they are to navigate.  Both have THOUSANDS of people going through them each and every day.  The goal of terrorists is always to kill the most amount of people at once.  This guy wanted to blow himself up and take whoever else he could with him.  We need to wake up and get with the program here.  I'm sure someone will yell that I'm racist and I'm fine with that, but when you have these crazy people looking to kill innocent people you have to profile as a former NYPD detective said this morning on TV.  They profiled the mafia... They've profiled various gangs... It's the same here. No different.  People all have patterns that they follow, just like mass murders and serial killers.  I'm also glad to hear that Trump is determined to take more measures to protect our country from such individuals.  It will never stop because these people hate Americans and the Western way of life.

I dealt with the same crap when I lived in Europe. The Europeans get it.  It's time for America to stop being so politically correct.

I agree....Nyc is filled with places to kill by the numbers....Penn station,Grand central,times sq and PABT comes to mind...I somehow believe that was a warning to us...But very freightning to say the least

[P3F]

I walked through the passageway an hour ago. Other than a single chipped wall tile, there were no signs of damage (and the tile could have been chipped earlier.) There were police officers stationed at various parts of the passage, though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

25 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

I agree....Nyc is filled with places to kill by the numbers....Penn station,Grand central,times sq and PABT comes to mind...I somehow believe that was a warning to us...But very freightning to say the least

We've been spared now a few times... We had that nut job that ran over people in Times Square, and the other nut job that tried to detonate a bomb in the same area, plus the other incident down in Chelsea.  It's like the cat with nine lives.  I must say though, this is starting to feel like living back in Europe, and that is not a good feeling. At that time we had the terrorist attack in Spain with the train, and we were on high alert in Italy. Nothing like going into the Duomo in Milan and asking the Carabinieri if you can enter while they guard the place with automatic weapons.

[NY1635]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You really don't understand why? Who cares how "hard" they are to navigate.  Both have THOUSANDS of people going through them each and every day.  The goal of terrorists is always to kill the most amount of people at once.  This guy wanted to blow himself up and take whoever else he could with him.  We need to wake up and get with the program here.  I'm sure someone will yell that I'm racist and I'm fine with that, but when you have these crazy people looking to kill innocent people you have to profile as a former NYPD detective said this morning on TV.  They profiled the mafia... They've profiled various gangs... It's the same here. No different.  People all have patterns that they follow, just like mass murders and serial killers.  I'm also glad to hear that Trump is determined to take more measures to protect our country from such individuals.  It will never stop because these people hate Americans and the Western way of life.

I dealt with the same crap when I lived in Europe. The Europeans get it.  It's time for America to stop being so politically correct.

The terrorist failed to blow a blow up a major transit hub that thousands of people use, and failed to scare them in the long term, which makes ISIS look incompetent. I was in Times Square, yesterday and I saw people taking pictures, sightseeing, and commuting as normal . The only safety precaution we should take is "I should change my traveling habits in case something bad happens" not "Let's have the NYPD profile every mosque in the city to find the one guy out of millions who may or may not be working with ISIS to plot a terrorist attack." Security at the airport, the subways, and terminals, how much MORE security do people need just to feel safe?

[Dave2836]

51 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

I agree....Nyc is filled with places to kill by the numbers....Penn station,Grand central,times sq and PABT comes to mind...I somehow believe that was a warning to us...But very freightning to say the least

Carry on about your daily life, just be aware of anything suspicious.  The moment we change the way we think, act, and feel... the moment people start suspecting a cell phone is a remote detonator, the moment we start reporting a kid with headphone wires dangling from their jacket pocket as a possible threat, then the terrorists win.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

The terrorist failed to blow a blow up a major transit hub that thousands of people use, and failed to scare them in the long term, which makes ISIS look incompetent. I was in Times Square, yesterday and I saw people taking pictures, sightseeing, and commuting as normal . The only safety precaution we should take is "I should change my traveling habits in case something bad happens" not "Let's have the NYPD profile every mosque in the city to find the one guy out of millions who may or may not be working with ISIS to plot a terrorist attack." Security at the airport, the subways, and terminals, how much MORE security do people need just to feel safe?

We wouldn't be as safe as we were if the NYPD weren't already watching people. If you don't think they aren't you're sadly mistaken. You don't wait and sit for things to happen. You have to be proactive to stop things before they take place. We won't thwart every incident, but you thwart even one of them, and not only have you saved lives, but you've changed the game in making the terrorist think twice before striking. Kudos to the NYPD for doing a great job. As I said, various gangs and mob families were taken down through profiling. You study behaviors and habits of people and you beat them at their game. Nothing racist about that at all. Regardless of where we come from, we all have habits that we engage in daily. That's all profiling is... Understanding peoples' patterns and behaviors.

[itmaybeokay]

2 hours ago, NY1635 said:

I don't understand why a suicide bomber would pick Time Square or the Port Authority Terminal given that both are hard to navigate around. The failed plot makes me feel like we're dealing with a pack of Wile E. Coyotes instead of Islamic criminal masterminds.

Basically. The ones who aren't on the radar of law enforcement are increasingly lone wolves often with less, i'll say, destructive ability. 

 

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We wouldn't be as safe as we were if the NYPD weren't already watching people. If you don't think they aren't you're sadly mistaken. You don't wait and sit for things to happen. You have to be proactive to stop things before they take place. We won't thwart every incident, but you thwart even one of them, and not only have you saved lives, but you've changed the game in making the terrorist think twice before striking. Kudos to the NYPD for doing a great job. As I said, various gangs and mob families were taken down through profiling. You study behaviors and habits of people and you beat them at their game. Nothing racist about that at all. Regardless of where we come from, we all have habits that we engage in daily. That's all profiling is... Understanding peoples' patterns and behaviors.

Well, there's profiling, and there's *racial* profiling. If you decide you're going to focus on specific subsets of people - moral implications completley aside for a moment - you could miss, for example, a home-grown white supremacist bent on violence against the capital city of the "mainstream media". That doesn't really sound that far-fetched these days.

But I agree the authorities should be on the lookout for these activities. And I agree that they are. And personally, I think the "glancing blow" nature of the recent attacks - no disrespect to the victims - is evidence of the fact that we're thwarting larger plots. 

But, as always, there's a balance to be struck between liberty and freedom. We could demand mandatory cavity searches before entry to the subway to make sure there isn't someone with a device up their backside - but honestly - I'd rather take my chances.   

[RR503]

Exactly. Profiling just on race alone is nothing more than pandering to islamaphobes.

I also think that we tend to define terrorism a bit too narrowly here. Was Stephen Paddock’s sniping a festival not an act of terror? Or Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook? Just because the perp wasn’t an Islamist doesn’t make the act not terrorism. I can assure you that the media and politicians would have called both of those acts of terror if a Muslim man had been behind the rifle. 

[GojiMet86]

4 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Exactly. Profiling just on race alone is nothing more than pandering to islamaphobes.

I also think that we tend to define terrorism a bit too narrowly here. Was Stephen Paddock’s sniping a festival not an act of terror? Or Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook? Just because the perp wasn’t an Islamist doesn’t make the act not terrorism. I can assure you that the media and politicians would have called both of those acts of terror if a Muslim man had been behind the rifle. 

 

Ah, but those guys LOVE the American Way of Life!  2nd Amendment aficionados to the end!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

44 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Exactly. Profiling just on race alone is nothing more than pandering to islamaphobes.

I also think that we tend to define terrorism a bit too narrowly here. Was Stephen Paddock’s sniping a festival not an act of terror? Or Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook? Just because the perp wasn’t an Islamist doesn’t make the act not terrorism. I can assure you that the media and politicians would have called both of those acts of terror if a Muslim man had been behind the rifle. 

If we're talking about Timothy McVeigh... Well that Oklahoma bombing was an act of terror. I have a hard time calling white nut jobs "terrorists" that go on shooting rampages.  That Vegas guy was just a nutcase.  Plain and simple.  If he was part of some white militia or part of a plot to take down the government, then maybe you'd be on to something.  What about those black guys that yell and scream by 125th street about the white man being a devil? Are they terrorists? I don't know, but I do know that I cross the street when I see them.  They creep me out. I'm of mixed background, so I call things the way I see them. If a white guy is a terrorist, then so be it, and if a black guy is a terrorist, then so be it.  

When Giuliani was a prosecutor, he went after the mob with a vengeance, and him being Sicilian didn't make a difference. I'm Sicilian too and I applauded him for doing what he did, and surely profiling took place, but it addressed a problem that was crippling our streets with drugs and the like.

[B35 via Church]

13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

...What about those black guys that yell and scream by 125th street about the white man being a devil? Are they terrorists?

lmfao.... almost choked on my kit kat reading this...

Man, those power rangers aren't any terrorists & no stranger/passer-by in the streets should have any real fear of them (the hostages they call girlfriends though is a whole 'nother story... those hoteps are some of the biggest woman beaters out here).... I don't know if you're serious about crossing the street whenever you see them (being that you're more or less the same size I am) or what, but all that whitey this, whitey that shit they be on the corner screaming at the top of their lungs about, is hot air to me..... They "practice" that prison religion while they're in the pen' so they wont get their butt cheeks cracked open like a can of coke or something ... They bring that shit to the streets as their bat signal - I'm F*!($ng broke & dusty.... They aren't all that different from the homeless you see in the subways & what not.... I wish I would be petrified of them!

They've been frequenting Jamaica Center for a couple mos. now, but some of them have made their way in my neck of the woods... Saw those jokers this past Saturday over there on the SW corner of Nostrand & Church (alongside the McDonalds-turned-Burger King, for anyone that knows the area); the  station... My sister told me that they're sometimes over at Church av  also....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

lmfao.... almost choked on my kit kat reading this...

Man, those power rangers aren't any terrorists & no stranger/passer-by in the streets should have any real fear of them (the hostages they call girlfriends though is a whole 'nother story... those hoteps are some of the biggest woman beaters out here).... I don't know if you're serious about crossing the street whenever you see them (being that you're more or less the same size I am) or what, but all that whitey this, whitey that shit they be on the corner screaming at the top of their lungs about, is hot air to me..... They "practice" that prison religion while they're in the pen' so they wont get their butt cheeks cracked open like a can of coke or something ... They bring that shit to the streets as their bat signal - I'm F*!($ng broke & dusty.... They aren't all that different from the homeless you see in the subways & what not.... I wish I would be petrified of them!

They've been frequenting Jamaica Center for a couple mos. now, but some of them have made their way in my neck of the woods... Saw those jokers this past Saturday over there on the SW corner of Nostrand & Church (alongside the McDonalds-turned-Burger King, for anyone that knows the area); the  station... My sister told me that they're sometimes over at Church av  also....

I've seen some of them by Park and 124th near the Metro-North station, and yes I do cross when I see them.  They look confrontational as if they are protecting their territory so to speak.  Sometimes I've seen then basically "patrolling" if you will (they appear to be anyway and I don't know for what or whom, but the whole thing is weird).  If you see people just hanging out over there, you know it doesn't make any sense because there is really nothing there until you reach that hospital a few blocks down, so rather than get myself into a heated situation, I avoid it entirely, since I don't know what their intentions are. 

[B35 via Church]

58 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I've seen some of them by Park and 124th near the Metro-North station, and yes I do cross when I see them.  They look confrontational as if they are protecting their territory so to speak.  Sometimes I've seen then basically "patrolling" if you will (they appear to be anyway and I don't know for what or whom, but the whole thing is weird).  If you see people just hanging out over there, you know it doesn't make any sense because there is really nothing there until you reach that hospital a few blocks down, so rather than get myself into a heated situation, I avoid it entirely, since I don't know what their intentions are. 

Lol.... It's all part of their clown act & I know it all too well.... Where people get into "trouble" (if you will), is when they engage in (trying to defend against) their hate speech - which is what their intentions are...

Said "territory" (where they do all their shouting) is temporarily rented; much like a street is during a block party... I have yet to see one of those hotep dudes step too far away from their "stage" to approach anyone... To the point where you have white people (men, women, don't matter, I've seen both) that try to bait them to attack them (physically); I believe there's a couple videos on youtube of the sort.... Personally I find it funny when those power rangers get trolled.

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Lol.... It's all part of their clown act & I know it all too well.... Where people get into "trouble" (if you will), is when they engage in (trying to defend against) their hate speech - which is what their intentions are...

Said "territory" (where they do all their shouting) is temporarily rented; much like a street is during a block party... I have yet to see one of those hotep dudes step too far away from their "stage" to approach anyone... To the point where you have white people (men, women, don't matter, I've seen both) that try to bait them to attack them (physically); I believe there's a couple videos on youtube of the sort.... Personally I find it funny when those power rangers get trolled.

 

 

Well that's the other thing... That little area there is going through changes, and they must be quite pissed so that's another reason I cross.  If I'm in that area, I am marked as one of those gentrifiers, even if I'm just traveling through there for business purposes. lol

[46Dover]

I prefer the Port Authority over our Midtown Madison Ave and Downtown routes.  I don’t know now after Monday.  From what I heard those drivers had little trouble outside of being delayed on the NJ 495 bus lane

[Deucey]

5 hours ago, itmaybeokay said:

Basically. The ones who aren't on the radar of law enforcement are increasingly lone wolves often with less, i'll say, destructive ability. 

 

Well, there's profiling, and there's *racial* profiling. If you decide you're going to focus on specific subsets of people - moral implications completley aside for a moment - you could miss, for example, a home-grown white supremacist bent on violence against the capital city of the "mainstream media". That doesn't really sound that far-fetched these days...

Or a white supremacist traveling from Baltimore to stab black men in Times Square because he's hellbent on discouraging white women from engaging in interracial relationships...

Can we start profiling consumers of and participants in white supremacy acts and causes too? 

And the fact there always seems to be a mass shooting with an angry white male conservative doing the shooting, can we profile gun clubs, shooting ranges, Breitbart and Infowars commenters and the like as well, since gun control in the area of manufacturing isn't a conversation this country is willing to have?

I only ask because as a black male, I'm more likely to experience terrorism from white supremacists, angry gun nuts and people mad Jim Crow ended than all of us - irrespective of race - are from Islamists...

[Porter]

11 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Seems like the passageway is reopened today. Even so, remember to always be careful as anything can happen at anytime.

I hate to sound pessimistic and morbid, but another terrorist attack will happen in NYC, perhaps before the year even ends, but certainly next year. Unless we become a martial law surveillance state, they can't really be stopped any more than automobile accidents, murders, or thefts can be.

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Or a white supremacist traveling from Baltimore to stab black men in Times Square because he's hellbent on discouraging white women from engaging in interracial relationships...

Can we start profiling consumers of and participants in white supremacy acts and causes too? 

And the fact there always seems to be a mass shooting with an angry white male conservative doing the shooting, can we profile gun clubs, shooting ranges, Breitbart and Infowars commenters and the like as well, since gun control in the area of manufacturing isn't a conversation this country is willing to have?

I only ask because as a black male, I'm more likely to experience terrorism from white supremacists, angry gun nuts and people mad Jim Crow ended than all of us - irrespective of race - are from Islamists...

Terrorism is something caused by anyone looking to inflict terror or fear in people I don't understand how it can be any more/less than that. Race is a made up construct I don't understand how it's applied here.

The issue is and always will be until we break the biological barrier were a tribal species we feel comfortable In familiar environments and safe In repetitive patterns. This person looks and sounds familiar he/she gets a pass.  The truth is based around that way of thinking.  The truth is a moving target it's Perception based. How do you make the Argument with someone that believes Wholeheartedly that their view is the truth? Ha to them it is the truth. No one Wants to listen to other person or submit to another way of thinking or even acknowledge that someone may think differently. Or at least Respect another POV even if they don't understand it. I guess the thing that upsets me the most is that we pride ourselves on morals principals and the ethics but in Practice were tribal civilized savages at best. I guess human nature at it's best.

[RailRunRob]

31 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I hate to sound pessimistic and morbid, but another terrorist attack will happen in NYC, perhaps before the year even ends, but certainly next year. Unless we become a martial law surveillance state, they can't really be stopped any more than automobile accidents, murders, or thefts can be.

It's reality! It's the cost of freedom can't let that type of thinking disrupt our society and day to day life.. If so then that sought to do so win! 

[Deucey]

2 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

 

Terrorism is something caused by anyone looking to inflict terror or fear in people I don't understand how it can be any more/less than that. Race is a made up construct I don't understand how it's applied here.

Because the biggest terrorists on the planet aren't Islamists, it's angry white conservative men, or did the lynchings, fire bombings, raids and the Texas revolution inflicted on black people, Native Americans and Mexicans miss you? And the mass shootings here - overwhelmingly angry conservative white men. Oklahoma City? Angry conservative white men.

So while you don't understand how race is applied here, or, if we call it what it is, that No True Scotsman fallacy, the fact is that everyone wants to profile Muslims, Arabs, Persians, Pashtuns, Hindis, and everyone from Asia Minor and the Subcontinent when the actual threat that costs more American lives are the men on the far right wing being pissed off to the highest level.

Let's not No True Scotsman it and have an actual realistic conversation about dissident political violence being used on innocent people going about their business - whether in nightclubs, subway tunnels, country music concerts, high schools or in the Confederacy.

The issue is and always will be until we break the biological barrier were a tribal species we feel comfortable In familiar environments and safe In repetitive patterns. This person looks and sounds familiar he/she gets a pass.  The truth is based around that way of thinking.  The truth is a moving target it's Perception based. How do you make the Argument with someone that believes Wholeheartedly that their view is the truth? Ha to them it is the truth. No one Wants to listen to other person or submit to another way of thinking or even acknowledge that someone may think differently. Or at least Respect another POV even if they don't understand it. I guess the thing that upsets me the most is that we pride ourselves on morals principals and the ethics but in Practice were tribal civilized savages at best. I guess human nature at it's best.

No, the issue is that people have grievances and are using violence to express them because governments are not addressing them, and in some cases encouraging them. This isn't tribal; it's political based on lines the British and League of Nations drew back when the Ottoman Empire was vanquished and that the US government took over responsibility for arbitrating after Bretton Woods and the European colonial retrenchment of the 1960s. Had the US forced Israel before the Six Day War to either incorporate Palestinians into Israeli society or agree to a two-state solution before the Six Day War and the taking of the Golan Heights, we wouldn't have these problems.

If the US didn't prop up OPEC to avoid another embargo, we wouldn't have this problem. In a way, despite my loathing of him (which predated his hosting the Apprentice), at least Donald tried something different aside from begging Israel to play nice. It was a stupid thing, but it was better than doing the same shit as the last 60 years and expecting different results.

But when it comes to domestic terrorism inflicted on every one of us groups that isn't a WASP (lest we forget what WASPs did to Irish and Italians in addition to the rest of us), we wouldn't have the problems now if the "conservative" party didn't embrace the fanatical racists into its ranks for electoral advantage. Dismissing angry white male terrorism as a "No True Scotsman" thing - "why are we discussing race" - when they're killing more Americans of all races than anyone saying Allahu Akbar is doing this nation's violence problem and our quest for safety and security a huge disservice.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, Deucey said:

 

 

Because the biggest terrorists on the planet aren't Islamists, it's angry white conservative men, or did the lynchings, fire bombings, raids and the Texas revolution inflicted on black people, Native Americans and Mexicans miss you? And the mass shootings here - overwhelmingly angry conservative white men. Oklahoma City? Angry conservative white men.

So while you don't understand how race is applied here, or, if we call it what it is, that No True Scotsman fallacy, the fact is that everyone wants to profile Muslims, Arabs, Persians, Pashtuns, Hindis, and everyone from Asia Minor and the Subcontinent when the actual threat that costs more American lives are the men on the far right wing being pissed off to the highest level.

Let's not No True Scotsman it and have an actual realistic conversation about dissident political violence being used on innocent people going about their business - whether in nightclubs, subway tunnels, country music concerts, high schools or in the Confederacy.

 

 

No, the issue is that people have grievances and are using violence to express them because governments are not addressing them, and in some cases encouraging them. This isn't tribal; it's political based on lines the British and League of Nations drew back when the Ottoman Empire was vanquished and that the US government took over responsibility for arbitrating after Bretton Woods and the European colonial retrenchment of the 1960s. Had the US forced Israel before the Six Day War to either incorporate Palestinians into Israeli society or agree to a two-state solution before the Six Day War and the taking of the Golan Heights, we wouldn't have these problems.

If the US didn't prop up OPEC to avoid another embargo, we wouldn't have this problem. In a way, despite my loathing of him (which predated his hosting the Apprentice), at least Donald tried something different aside from begging Israel to play nice. It was a stupid thing, but it was better than doing the same shit as the last 60 years and expecting different results.

But when it comes to domestic terrorism inflicted on every one of us groups that isn't a WASP (lest we forget what WASPs did to Irish and Italians in addition to the rest of us), we wouldn't have the problems now if the "conservative" party didn't embrace the fanatical racists into its ranks for electoral advantage. Dismissing angry white male terrorism as a "No True Scotsman" thing - "why are we discussing race" - when they're killing more Americans of all races than anyone saying Allahu Akbar is doing this nation's violence problem and our quest for safety and security a huge disservice.

I can't agree with everything you said, but I will say that the U.S. will never turn its back on Israel. Too much money in play. I could elaborate further but I won't.

[RailRunRob]

10 hours ago, Deucey said:

Because the biggest terrorists on the planet aren't Islamists, it's angry white conservative men, or did the lynchings, fire bombings, raids and the Texas revolution inflicted on black people, Native Americans and Mexicans miss you? And the mass shootings here - overwhelmingly angry conservative white men. Oklahoma City? Angry conservative white men.

So while you don't understand how race is applied here, or, if we call it what it is, that No True Scotsman fallacy, the fact is that everyone wants to profile Muslims, Arabs, Persians, Pashtuns, Hindis, and everyone from Asia Minor and the Subcontinent when the actual threat that costs more American lives are the men on the far right wing being pissed off to the highest level.

Let's not No True Scotsman it and have an actual realistic conversation about dissident political violence being used on innocent people going about their business - whether in nightclubs, subway tunnels, country music concerts, high schools or in the Confederacy.

I'm with you no arguments from me .. the fact's and numbers are there. But to my point, people live there own truths. Rational points or not how do you justify that to people a lot of them in power that don't want to hear any views but the ones they have? That's what I'm saying.

 

 

10 hours ago, Deucey said:

No, the issue is that people have grievances and are using violence to express them because governments are not addressing them, and in some cases encouraging them. This isn't tribal; it's political based on lines the British and League of Nations drew back when the Ottoman Empire was vanquished and that the US government took over responsibility for arbitrating after Bretton Woods and the European colonial retrenchment of the 1960s. Had the US forced Israel before the Six Day War to either incorporate Palestinians into Israeli society or agree to a two-state solution before the Six Day War and the taking of the Golan Heights, we wouldn't have these problems.

If the US didn't prop up OPEC to avoid another embargo, we wouldn't have this problem. In a way, despite my loathing of him (which predated his hosting the Apprentice), at least Donald tried something different aside from begging Israel to play nice. It was a stupid thing, but it was better than doing the same shit as the last 60 years and expecting different results.

But when it comes to domestic terrorism inflicted on every one of us groups that isn't a WASP (lest we forget what WASPs did to Irish and Italians in addition to the rest of us), we wouldn't have the problems now if the "conservative" party didn't embrace the fanatical racists into its ranks for electoral advantage. Dismissing angry white male terrorism as a "No True Scotsman" thing - "why are we discussing race" - when they're killing more Americans of all races than anyone saying Allahu Akbar is doing this nation's violence problem and our quest for safety and security a huge disservice.

Again your points and connecting the dots historical all on point. My point is that all of this behavior rests and stems from Human nature and our flaws.  Politics despite it's Socratic balanced distributed beginnings it's becoming tribal at its core. Were tribal it's apart of who we are as a species. Living in groups of millions 320M for the group that we're apart of here in the US. It's a fairly new thing what we starting this group thing what 70,000 years ago, Larger group the last 10,000 years? That's a blink of eye nothing at all in the grand scheme of things. An ingenious thing we figured out if you connect with people in belief or a single goal you can get thousands and millions of people to sync step and move in one single direction in comes The Bible, the constitution, and so on. Add your laws and standardize trade and currencies walla!! You have a self-sustaining society but it's very Fragile..! Point is the tribal instinct arcs us back to Self-preservation nothing comes before that! It's hardcoded Fight or flight level. Self-preservation of way of life see this more and more day by day in this climate. The War's won and lost all based on Self-preservation and expansion. Bills and embargos all based on self -preservation in some form or another. Law's? Don't think I have to answer that. So then you create the construct of race post-Bacon 's Rebellion here in the US Purely for self-preservation using people's natural instinct to group tribally. So when you control the board in this case not even financially really because it's so unevenly distributed but we'll say racially (or Socially) because you set the tone /culture and you have for the better part of the last 300 years. Everything benefits you to keep it the same. "True people that look like me are killing more people in the US but it doesn't benefit to point that out" Self-preservation I like it this way. People are always to gravitate to what's easier, safest and preserves of odd to survive physically and in our essence. That's my point.I guess our brains haven't evolved much since the days of hunting down mammoth.    Everything you pointed out makes sense. Until we genetically/Biologically push pass this into some type of enlightenment I don't have faith we can solve it. People understand force, power, and money.. Civility and rationale are just a cover. Doesn't work in practice but it sounds/looks good written on a piece of paper.