SBS B82 just undoable

[LGA Link N Train]

3 minutes ago, mrbrklyn said:

Is will not get the homeless off the trains,  It will not remove the homeless who has taken permanent shelter on the E16th entrance.  It will not prevent car break downs and doors from from being broken by people holding the doors.  It will not get the garbage picked up at the stations or to control the rats.

Buses have zero impact on the subway except then they are being used because they closed down the line for some repairs ... again.

...... and what do any of these have to do with the B82?

[mrbrklyn]

1 minute ago, LGA Link N train said:

The should improve on it. If this works with other bus routes, why won't it work for the B82? 

Well, I don't live in queens.  I live on east 17th and Avenue P.  I use that bus 8 times a week, as a matter of fact to get to Bushwick through the L train, and the bus needs to be eliminated altogether.  Everyone would be better off.  They should divide that bus in half and and move it to Avenue P so it is most useful for the people who need it most, Canarsie and Starrette City residents who don't own or can't use cars. 

 

• Better would be to fix the darn G train and make an Atlantic Avenue G train Fulton street connection official and more usable. 
• Better would be an extention of the G in Queens and Brooklyn to make the trip from the  L train to Stillwell Avenue easier as a single seat transfer.
• Better would be improving the Franklin Avenue Shuttle connection to the IND. 
• Better is not ripping up Kings Highway for unwanted buses, substituting one form of congrestion for another form.

[R68OnBroadway]

1 hour ago, mrbrklyn said:

You don't know that.  the MTA doesn't think that.  Generally when I looked at the overall data, that is not what we see.  What we see is a demographic change in different routes and an increase in the use of bicycles in younger communities and a shift to the use of Uber.  Essentially, given any reasonable choice at all, people would do anything but take a bus.  It has been like that for nearly a 100 years.

 

 

 

http://superunleaded.com/heres-17-reasons-why-buses-are-absolutely-rubbish/1919/

Maybe those people chose bikes and other forms because bus and subway service is so unreliable. I would much rather take a bus (reliable one) vs Uber/bicycle if given the chance as its cheaper than Uber and I'm much less likely be killed than on a bike.  You also cited a source that just spews thoughts, and if buses suck so much, why are they so heavily used in other places around the world? Plus, in Britain most people hate the buses when they replace rail service for work. 

 

53 minutes ago, mrbrklyn said:

We need better and more efficient automobile service citywide. There are plenty of people out there who want better automobile service and need it as it isn't practical to build subway lines under every major street. The only things that should be eliminated are portions of overly-long routes in Manhattan.

Automobile service? It makes much more sense to have better bus service. Just because you hate buses doesn't mean everyone does. Buses fit more people, and they travel to places where that are the most geographically convenient for riders. We can't have door-to-door car service everywhere as it doesn't make sense due to traffic problems it would generate, as well as how environmentally unfriendly it will be.

[Brillant93]

21 minutes ago, mrbrklyn said:

 

and it is not true, which is why people prefer and use cars.  And cars have the far greater capacity on the road than buses.  You would need to an idiot to take a bus with a family of 6 to say... E23nd and Avenue N to Kings Plaza to shop, or to Cerasars Bizzarre.  There are whole places that you simply wouldn't shop that might otherwise be useful life the Home Depot at Coney Island, and Jethro in Canarsie, Sears on Bedford Avenue, Staples on Coney Island Avenue etc etc.  Buses turn a 2 hour adventure into a who day affair, and there is not a darn thing you can do about it because that is how buses are.

 

If the B82, with its minor passenger capacity is allowed to gum up and destroy the normal usage of the Kings Highway business district then you will be screwing every resident who lives in that coridor for an inefficient and unwanted form of transportation and relatively speaking, nobody uses.  8% of a population doesn't justifying obliterating an entire middle class community just because it is in your way.  It doesn't justify the cost to every local truck driver who has to use that route by law, because it is the local truck route designeated as such by the City of New York.  It doesn't justify the missery to the local businesses that depend on families that drive and park.  It doesn't justify killing the subway drop and drive points that make transport at the subway station easier from Marine Park to Bensonhurst.  It doesn't justify killing the poor cab drivers in the taxi stands about the road.  It doesn't justify in inconviencing the local pedestrians who have to navigate up and down Kings Highway to get to schools or the train station with sideway obstructions.  And so on.  There are a lot of different constinuencies that depend on that business district, very few of which are passangers on the B82, let alone the B82 express.  Blocking off the street is a hazzard to anyone who is not a bus, which is nearly everyone, or 92+% of everyone.

 

"and it is not true, which is why people prefer and use cars.  And cars have the far greater capacity on the road than buses."

Car that can seat about 4 people 6 if you squeeze them opposed to a bus that can carry about 80 to 100 people. Capacity 🤔
 

"You would need to an idiot to take a bus with a family of 6 to say"

some people in this city have no choice also tourists do so and its not a big deal.

 

"E23nd and Avenue N to Kings Plaza to shop, or to Cerasars Bizzarre." 

Kings Plaza, Ceasers Bay, Gateway Mall, Green Acres all have big parking lots because a lot of people there do heavy shopping. The small businesses along kings hwy are for smaller needs. Thats why they're building a small Target there instead of a big one with a parking lot. The demand is for light use shopping over there not heavy. 

 

"If the B82, with its minor passenger capacity is allowed to gum up and destroy the normal usage of the Kings Highway business district then you will be screwing every resident who lives in that coridor for an inefficient and unwanted form of transportation and relatively speaking, nobody uses."

Nobody uses it? I use that damn route all the time and its packed I don't know what planet you're on but its not this one. 

"It doesn't justify the missery to the local businesses that depend on families that drive and park.  It doesn't justify killing the subway drop and drive points that make transport at the subway station easier from Marine Park to Bensonhurst.  It doesn't justify killing the poor cab drivers in the taxi stands about the road.  It doesn't justify in inconviencing the local pedestrians who have to navigate up and down Kings Highway to get to schools or the train station with sideway obstructions."

All the fears you have from a bus that wouldn't even hurt the businesses, taxis, pedestrians, and so on. Your fear is irrational. 

13 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

Just to assure you, I live in Queens and never taken the B82 cause it's too far from me and even if the B82 is bad. The should improve on it. If this works with other bus routes, why won't it work for the B82? 

The B82 is one of the busiest in the city and it needs all the help it can get to improve it. Its over crowded, its routing needs help, and the current limited service is sporadic which only operates early rush hour to early afternoons. Thats not feasible for 21st century nyc. 

[Brillant93]

14 minutes ago, mrbrklyn said:

Well, I don't live in queens.  I live on east 17th and Avenue P.  I use that bus 8 times a week, as a matter of fact to get to Bushwick through the L train, and the bus needs to be eliminated altogether.  Everyone would be better off.  They should divide that bus in half and and move it to Avenue P so it is most useful for the people who need it most, Canarsie and Starrette City residents who don't own or can't use cars. 

 

• Better would be to fix the darn G train and make an Atlantic Avenue G train Fulton street connection official and more usable. 
• Better would be an extention of the G in Queens and Brooklyn to make the trip from the  L train to Stillwell Avenue easier as a single seat transfer.
• Better would be improving the Franklin Avenue Shuttle connection to the IND. 
• Better is not ripping up Kings Highway for unwanted buses, substituting one form of congrestion for another form.

"I live on east 17th and Avenue P.  I use that bus 8 times a week, as a matter of fact to get to Bushwick through the L train, and the bus needs to be eliminated altogether."

How the hell are you going to get to bushwick if theres no B82? 

"Everyone would be better off.  They should divide that bus in half and and move it to Avenue P so it is most useful for the people who need it most, Canarsie and Starrette City residents who don't own or can't use cars."

I don't know who this everyone is but your community thinks they're the entire Brooklyn it seems and its quite arrogant. Dividing it would hurt a lot of workers, school students, elderly, and many others. 

"Better is not ripping up Kings Highway for unwanted buses, substituting one form of congrestion for another form."

The only issue that is causing congestion on kings hwy are double parked cars. Which people in that area seem to do more often than not. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

1 hour ago, mrbrklyn said:

You don't know that.  the MTA doesn't think that.  Generally when I looked at the overall data, that is not what we see.  What we see is a demographic change in different routes and an increase in the use of bicycles in younger communities and a shift to the use of Uber.  Essentially, given any reasonable choice at all, people would do anything but take a bus.  It has been like that for nearly a 100 years.

 

 

 

http://superunleaded.com/heres-17-reasons-why-buses-are-absolutely-rubbish/1919/

the MTA on numerous occasions has stated that bus service is unreliable, hence the redesign of the entire Staten Island express bus network and that statement was again used when the MTA proposed redesigning the entire bus network boro by boro recently. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

50 minutes ago, mrbrklyn said:

the B82, with its minor passenger capacity 

as a current employee (Bus Operator) with the MTA who has operated buses on the b82 as recently as 2017, you are completely off base as far as customer patronage is concerned. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Look, I know the B82 SBS has been floppy and whatnot, but I'm not going to bother entertaining someone who has clearly shown to be anti-bus and close minded. That mind of thinking is a factor into why our subways are the way they are today. I hope everyone else can follow suit.

[RTSTdrive]

26 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

as a current employee (Bus Operator) with the MTA who has operated buses on the b82 as recently as 2017, you are completely off base as far as customer patronage is concerned. 

For real though. As someone who has regularly used the B82 since childhood to get to and from school as well as run errands...first of all """"minor""" passenger capacity?

Take it from someone who grew up taking this route when I say ridership has seen increases for as long as I can remember. Whatever B82 local runs this guy sees that would probably have around 20 passengers is not even scratching the surface.

Even though the Limited only runs during rush-hours, it certainly comes with its benefits of bringing people to their final destinations quicker and it most certainly sees crowding most of the time. SBS, with all of the various flaws it has, it does have its benefits including off-peak daytime service.

Unless this guy is some city planner who can prove to me that splitting or eliminating the B82 altogether would have some benefit with well planned out alternatives aside from driving (something I refuse to do when traveling intra-city) or taking a circle around the subway system just to reach a place only 4 miles from where I live, I object to whatever he believes about bus systems in general.

[mrbrklyn]

50 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Automobile service? It makes much more sense to have better bus service.

Always, every day all the time.  Don't give me the BS about 40 people on a bus.  If there was 40 people on a bus, nobody would take it for long... that is for sure.  You don't measure the value of transportation like that unless you intend to mislead people.  The reason the MTA wants the bus lanes is for the very reason people hate buses.  They inefficient, slow, awkward, and are a traffic nightmare.  It takes 4 parking spaces for just a single bus stop.  More people travel past Knap Street on the Belt Parkwark on a Sunday morning in an hour than the B82 does likely does in an entire day.

 

The bus doesn't go to your house, does it.  Well that really sucks.  Makes it hard to take my fishing poles like that, or to ring home my catch.

You measure throughput by how many objects per unit of time multipiled by a cost value.

 

The cost value of a ride on a bus is about 10th, that of a typical bus ride.  And I've counted, yes I actually say and counted all the cars that when by,  243 cars between B82 limited buses 9:06AM.  And that one B82 was blocking traffic up and down the street.  It couldn't get past the construction sight.  I saw 9 cars by pass it on that half of a block.  It got stuck being a milk delivery vehicle and another 14 cars bypassed it.  Everywhere a bus goes, it is like pigpen on charlie brown... it is followed by a dusk cloud of traffic and anxieties.  Then it sat for over  4 minutes, nose to nose with a dump truck, until the dump truck had to reverse enough for the bus to do one of its wide angle swings.  As soon as it cleared, another 8 cars zipped past it.

 

So please, don't repeat obviously wrong propaganda.  It took 12 minutes to load a wheel chair at 16th Street yesterday.  Then when jolted the homeless person in the wheel chair stood up and yelled at the driver.  That is a brilliant idea brought to you from our friends in Washington...

 

And you see this picture the MTA likes to publish in order to lie to the public:

 

 

  Count the cars here.  And now do a thought experiment and think of all putting all those people nicely lined up on the asphalt and then stuff them into the bus in total chaos.  If the buses where packed like that people would die of suffocation and the MTA would be on the front page of the NY Post every day.  Nobody will ride a bus like that.  And MTA buses are rarely if ever packed like that.  And that bus is not moving either or in traffic making the whole image just an attempt to knowingly deceive the public.  And remember, right after this picture was shot, everyone of those people got into their cars are drove away.  They weren't going to get stuck on a highway stuffed in a bus.

 

It is all lies.  Everything the MTA says about the SBS B82 is a lie and designed to protect their jobs.

[WestFarms36]

1 hour ago, mrbrklyn said:

Well, I don't live in queens.  I live on east 17th and Avenue P.  I use that bus 8 times a week, as a matter of fact to get to Bushwick through the L train, and the bus needs to be eliminated altogether.  Everyone would be better off.  They should divide that bus in half and and move it to Avenue P so it is most useful for the people who need it most, Canarsie and Starrette City residents who don't own or can't use cars. 

 

• Better would be to fix the darn G train and make an Atlantic Avenue G train Fulton street connection official and more usable. 
• Better would be an extention of the G in Queens and Brooklyn to make the trip from the  L train to Stillwell Avenue easier as a single seat transfer.
• Better would be improving the Franklin Avenue Shuttle connection to the IND. 
• Better is not ripping up Kings Highway for unwanted buses, substituting one form of congrestion for another form.

Holy * the hatred with buses in here is real, listen +SBS+ on the B82 won't be a 'cure it all' either, of course +SBS+ has its imperfections, but sometimes they help speed up the process in certain ares that wouldn't be possible before...

[WestFarms36]

4 minutes ago, mrbrklyn said:

Always, every day all the time.  Don't give me the BS about 40 people on a bus.  If there was 40 people on a bus, nobody would take it for long... that is for sure.  You don't measure the value of transportation like that unless you intend to mislead people.  The reason the MTA wants the bus lanes is for the very reason people hate buses.  They inefficient, slow, awkward, and are a traffic nightmare.  It takes 4 parking spaces for just a single bus stop.  More people travel past Knap Street on the Belt Parkwark on a Sunday morning in an hour than the B82 does likely does in an entire day.

 

The bus doesn't go to your house, does it.  Well that really sucks.  Makes it hard to take my fishing poles like that, or to ring home my catch.

You measure throughput by how many objects per unit of time multipiled by a cost value.

 

The cost value of a ride on a bus is about 10th, that of a typical bus ride.  And I've counted, yes I actually say and counted all the cars that when by,  243 cars between B82 limited buses 9:06AM.  And that one B82 was blocking traffic up and down the street.  It couldn't get past the construction sight.  I saw 9 cars by pass it on that half of a block.  It got stuck being a milk delivery vehicle and another 14 cars bypassed it.  Everywhere a bus goes, it is like pigpen on charlie brown... it is followed by a dusk cloud of traffic and anxieties.  Then it sat for over  4 minutes, nose to nose with a dump truck, until the dump truck had to reverse enough for the bus to do one of its wide angle swings.  As soon as it cleared, another 8 cars zipped past it.

 

So please, don't repeat obviously wrong propaganda.  It took 12 minutes to load a wheel chair at 16th Street yesterday.  Then when jolted the homeless person in the wheel chair stood up and yelled at the driver.  That is a brilliant idea brought to you from our friends in Washington...

 

And you see this picture the MTA likes to publish in order to lie to the public:

 

 

  Count the cars here.  And now do a thought experiment and think of all putting all those people nicely lined up on the asphalt and then stuff them into the bus in total chaos.  If the buses where packed like that people would die of suffocation and the MTA would be on the front page of the NY Post every day.  Nobody will ride a bus like that.  And MTA buses are rarely if ever packed like that.  And that bus is not moving either or in traffic making the whole image just an attempt to knowingly deceive the public.  And remember, right after this picture was shot, everyone of those people got into their cars are drove away.  They weren't going to get stuck on a highway stuffed in a bus.

 

It is all lies.  Everything the MTA says about the SBS B82 is a lie and designed to protect their jobs.

EVERYONE IN THE FORUMS...

Just don't waste your time in a helpless case... Let the self centered car man go on with his Ideology, no one will change it.

[mrbrklyn]

1 hour ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

as a current employee (Bus Operator) with the MTA who has operated buses on the b82 as recently as 2017, you are completely off base as far as customer patronage is concerned.  

Being a bus driver gives you no extra credibility in this discussion.  I take that bus every day and my numbers come directly from the MTA's metrocard swipes, not made up by a bus operator on the route.  Now granted, the MTA has limited credibility as well, by I think I trust them enough to get a rough approximate number of B82 swipes along the route, and to count to 8% when they do a survey.  Those are the 2017 weekday calculations from their own reports.

[mrbrklyn]

7 minutes ago, mrbrklyn said:

The cost value of a ride on a bus is about 10th, that of a typical bus ride. 

correction the value of a ride on a bus is about a 10th of a typical trip.   You can measure the cost of a trip as to the time it takes, the time of day, the amount of packages you carry, the number of people you go with, the cost of going end to end from door to door and back, the length of the trip etc etc.  A bus trip is about 1/10th the typical value of a typical trip.

[mrbrklyn]

32 minutes ago, RTSTdrive said:

For real though. As someone who has regularly used the B82 since childhood to get to and from school as well as run errands...first of all """"minor""" passenger capacity?

Take it from someone who grew up taking this route when I say ridership has seen increases for as long as I can remember. Whatever B82 local runs this guy sees that would probably have around 20 passengers is not even scratching the surface.

And yet you live in Canarsie, one of the most car segregated and car friendly places in NYC. 

 

So here is the facts on the B82LT with the SBS would replace.  At 6:30PM Monday through Thursday I am on that bus and it gets packed at Rockaway with about 27-35 people.  By Utica Avenue only 2 of use remain on that bus to reach Ocean Avenue and Kings Highway, sometimes a third.  The bus then has about 8 passengers on average.  That is rush hour.

The local is far more packed and nobody is taking that bus to Coney Island.  Sorry.  The numbers are correct.  When compared to the total capacity of the KH business district the B82 LTM is a small contributor to the  total number of people there and in no way should be allowed to create more congestion through central Brooklyn for an SBS B82 with a bus lane.

 

 

[MysteriousBtrain]

S

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This thread makes Wallyhorse look smart with his ideas.

[RTSTdrive]

2 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

S

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This thread makes Wallyhorse look smart with his ideas.

Or the one guy who wanted the Far Rockaway A train extended to down the street from their house...cuz hey that certainly didn't get any community opposition right?

[LGA Link N Train]

44 minutes ago, mrbrklyn said:

And MTA buses are rarely if ever packed like that.

Ahem, I'm sorry, What?

Bx12

B46

Q60 (which I ride occasionally)

Q32 (I've witnessed)

Q88

Q23 (I've seen it from a pedestrian view) 

Q64

B44

B83 

B15

Q24

Bx13

B61 

B63

B37

B35 

B70

B8

Bx6

B6

Bx41

Q23

M15

Q1-4

M103

M14A-D

M42 

Q47

Q70 

Q72

Q52/53

.......should I continue??

These are all high ridership buses. And without these buses, NYC would be in a sh*thole right now. For crying out loud EVERYONE IN THE FORUMS ARE SAYING THE SAME THING. It's 20+ vs. 1. Give it up already. Buses are just as useful as trains. 

And this info come from people whon I know and personal Experience/what I have witnessed. Therefore I am not being biased.

 

[RTSTdrive]

1 minute ago, LGA Link N train said:

Ahem, I'm sorry, What?

Bx12

B46

Q60 (which I ride occasionally)

Q32 (I've witnessed)

Q88

Q23 (I've seen it from a pedestrian view) 

Q64

B44

B61 

B63

B37

B35 

B70

B8

Bx6

B6

Bx41

Q23

M15

Q1-4

M103

M14A-D

M42 

Q47

Q70 

Q72

Q52/53

.......should I continue??

These are all high ridership buses. And without these buses, NYC would be in a sh*thole right now. For crying out loud EVERYONE IN THE FORUMS ARE SAYING THE SAME THING. It's 20+ vs. 1. Give it up already. Buses are just as useful as trains. 

 

 

No No mrbrklyn does have a point. He's enlightened me so clearly the logical thing to do now is do nothing and allow the B82 to eventually deteriorate. Certainly us East New York and Canarsie residents contribute to the minority of the non-existent B82 ridership base.

Why must the MTA waste money on thousands of dollars on a miles long crosstown route that's practically abandoned when we have cars to drive on our breathable, open, congestion-free Belt Parkway?

Cada quien a lo suyo, right? 🙄🙄🙄

[mrbrklyn]

14 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

These are all high ridership buses. And without these buses, NYC would be in a sh*thole right now. For crying out loud EVERYONE IN THE FORUMS ARE SAYING THE SAME THING. It's 20+ vs. 1. Give it up already. Buses are just as useful as trains. 

And this info come from people whon I know and personal Experience/what I have witnessed. Therefore I am not being biased.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about at this point but it has nothing to do with the thread.  Regardless, this forum is a small microcosm of the universe.  I mean - you realize that you don't represent the norm here, right?  It is a special interest group.  Aside for that, buses are not as useful as trains... obviously. 

[mrbrklyn]

2 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

the MTA on numerous occasions has stated that bus service is unreliable, hence the redesign of the entire Staten Island express bus network and that statement was again used when the MTA proposed redesigning the entire bus network boro by boro recently. 

that is not exactly what they said...

They said ridership was down and proposed unreliability as a possbile reason for the decline along with citibikes and uber...

 

 

[RTSTdrive]

1 minute ago, mrbrklyn said:

I have no idea what you are talking about at this point but it has nothing to do with the thread.  Regardless, this forum is a small microcosm of the universe.  I mean - you realize that you don't represent the norm here, right?  It is a special interest group.  Aside for that, buses are not as useful as trains... obviously. 

Why not get rid of both altogether? Why bother with all of the random unavoidable power outages, bottlenecks, and signal problems our subways are plagued with? Why bother with all of the heavy, unpalatable buses that are wasting our space and oxygen when when we're all better off driving cars? Why can't poor people just get jobs and save up for cars, right?

Clearly this city hasn't been built around transit...it just so happened to have been built haphazardly within the last century and Robert Moses can definitely atest to this.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Just now, mrbrklyn said:

I have no idea what you are talking about at this point but it has nothing to do with the thread. 

More proof that you are ignorant and I'm not sure how we are getting off topic. Unless you just don't like what you are hearing.

 

Trivia time: the B82 is the sixth busiest route in Brooklyn. If it's in the top 10 then it must mean something. But it's not what you want to hear so it must be false. I rest my case. 

Quote me so I can hear what other NIMBYism thoughts you want to share next.

[RTSTdrive]

2 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

More proof that you are ignorant and I'm not sure how we are getting off topic. Unless you just don't like what you are hearing.

 

Trivia time: the B82 is the sixth busiest route in Brooklyn. If it's in the top 10 then it must mean something. But it's not what you want to hear so it must be false. I rest my case. 

Quote me so I can hear what other NIMBYism thoughts you want to share next.

 

Nonsense he clearly has all of his stats right. B82 ridership? I don't know her... 🤣

[mrbrklyn]

1 hour ago, RTSTdrive said:

For real though. As someone who has regularly used the B82 since childhood to get to and from school as well as run errands...first of all """"minor""" passenger capacity?

Take it from someone who grew up taking this route when I say ridership has seen increases for as long as I can remember. Whatever B82 local runs this guy sees that would probably have around 20 passengers is not even scratching the surface.

Even though the Limited only runs during rush-hours, it certainly comes with its benefits of bringing people to their final destinations quicker and it most certainly sees crowding most of the time. SBS, with all of the various flaws it has, it does have its benefits including off-peak daytime service.

Unless this guy is some city planner who can prove to me that splitting or eliminating the B82 altogether would have some benefit with well planned out alternatives aside from driving (something I refuse to do when traveling intra-city) or taking a circle around the subway system just to reach a place only 4 miles from where I live, I object to whatever he believes about bus systems in general.

http://web.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_bus.htm

 

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/trackmap/pm_southeast_1.png

"Ridership: 32,000 daily riders
– 10,000 Limited, 22,000 Local"