No more funding for Elmhurst station

[Union Tpke]

In the mail, I got a notice of comment period from the NYMTC for its proposed transportation improvement program ammendments. One of the changes was the elimination of the funding for the environmental review and design of the elmhurst station. The NYMTC is the Metropolitan Planning Organization for our area.

On the other hand, more money is going to be wasted on adding lanes to the Van Wyck! Induced congestion anyone! And for parking lots at commuter rail stops!

 

$30.5 million had been allocated for the project: $19.5 million from the MTA, $8 million from the FTA's Urbanized Area Formula Grants - 5307, and $3 million from the FTA's The Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) Improvement Program for FFY 2019. According to the document, "Project is deleteed."

Originally the whole project was going to be in the 2015-2019 Capital Program. After some revisions, only the design was set for this program. Now it will be removed. Why on earth are they doing this? This is one of the best new bang for the buck projects they were persuing. Also, I don't think those FTA funds can be transferred.

I don't know what is going on.

[R68OnBroadway]

1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

In the mail, I got a notice of comment period from the NYMTC for its proposed transportation improvement program ammendments. One of the changes was the elimination of the funding for the environmental review and design of the elmhurst station. The NYMTC is the Metropolitan Planning Organization for our area.

On the other hand, more money is going to be wasted on adding lanes to the Van Wyck! Induced congestion anyone! And for parking lots at commuter rail stops!

 

$30.5 million had been allocated for the project: $19.5 million from the MTA, $8 million from the FTA's Urbanized Area Formula Grants - 5307, and $3 million from the FTA's The Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) Improvement Program for FFY 2019. According to the document, "Project is deleteed."

Originally the whole project was going to be in the 2015-2019 Capital Program. After some revisions, only the design was set for this program. Now it will be removed. Why on earth are they doing this? This is one of the best new bang for the buck projects they were persuing. Also, I don't think those FTA funds can be transferred.

I don't know what is going on.

Yet the Airtrain boondoggle that will somehow "benefit" East Elmhurst/Elmhurst is still being built. 

Really shows you that unless a politican can capitalize off of it, transit improvements aren't coming... I swear this agency is making me more libertarian every day...

[paulrivera]

4 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

I don't know what is going on.

This is what happened:

[RR503]

This is disgusting. We need to be investing in regional rail infrastructure, not killing it. 

Where can I comment? 

[Union Tpke]

Unfortunately it ended on the 25th.

[paulrivera]

13 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Yet the Airtrain boondoggle that will somehow "benefit" East Elmhurst/Elmhurst is still being built. 

Emptier Q48 buses so that Elmhurst residents won’t have to duck and dodge LGA passengers and their luggage *could* be considered a benefit....

No wait, they’ll just cut the runs to make sure the Q48 is just as crowded as it is now. Because you know, cost neutral and 125% loading guidelines.

[BreeddekalbL]

SCREW THIS AIRTRAIN TO LGA!

[N6 Limited]

The sad thing is that they need environmental studies for a station. Just put up some platforms and call it a day. 

[bobtehpanda]

11 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

The sad thing is that they need environmental studies for a station. Just put up some platforms and call it a day. 

Platforms need foundation. Environmental studies, among other things, consider what you might end up accidentally digging, and what buildings you might accidentally wreck in the process of doing so. You never know what kind of messed up crap you find in the ground from the early days of the city.

[N6 Limited]

7 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Platforms need foundation. Environmental studies, among other things, consider what you might end up accidentally digging, and what buildings you might accidentally wreck in the process of doing so. You never know what kind of messed up crap you find in the ground from the early days of the city.

Fair enough.. Didn't the Elmhurst station already exist with side platforms?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmhurst_station_(LIRR)

[Union Tpke]

7 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Fair enough.. Didn't the Elmhurst station already exist with side platforms?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmhurst_station_(LIRR)

It did have side platforms. 

LIRR 12 by Old Elmhurst, NY, on Flickr

[LGA Link N Train]

So from what I'm understanding, there was a plan to restore a Station at Elmhurst for the LIRR only for it to be shot down by the LGA AirTrain?

That's........ that's 

 

[LGA Link N Train]

20 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

So from what I'm understanding, there was a plan to restore a Station at Elmhurst for the LIRR only for it to be shot down by the LGA AirTrain?

That's........ that's 

 

Edit, wrong video. Here's the correct one

 

[bobtehpanda]

16 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Fair enough.. Didn't the Elmhurst station already exist with side platforms?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmhurst_station_(LIRR)

It was demolished in the '80s, which is before we have ADA (so we need that), and the massive moves towards lead cleanup, asbestos cleanup, etc. I would not be surprised if there were nasty things located underground that would need some environmental remediation.

That being said, LIRR Elmhurst was costed at something like $30M, which is basically peanuts compared to the $1B+ AirTrain LGA. But whatever.

[UTC Bus Roster]

On 6/27/2018 at 1:44 PM, BreeddekalbL said:

SCREW THIS AIRTRAIN TO LGA!

They should have just extended the Astoria line to LGA!!

Screw the NIMBYs!!!

[Missabassie]

On 6/26/2018 at 7:55 PM, Union Tpke said:

In the mail, I got a notice of comment period from the NYMTC for its proposed transportation improvement program ammendments. One of the changes was the elimination of the funding for the environmental review and design of the elmhurst station. The NYMTC is the Metropolitan Planning Organization for our area.

On the other hand, more money is going to be wasted on adding lanes to the Van Wyck! Induced congestion anyone! And for parking lots at commuter rail stops!

 

$30.5 million had been allocated for the project: $19.5 million from the MTA, $8 million from the FTA's Urbanized Area Formula Grants - 5307, and $3 million from the FTA's The Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) Improvement Program for FFY 2019. According to the document, "Project is deleteed."

Originally the whole project was going to be in the 2015-2019 Capital Program. After some revisions, only the design was set for this program. Now it will be removed. Why on earth are they doing this? This is one of the best new bang for the buck projects they were persuing. Also, I don't think those FTA funds can be transferred.

I don't know what is going on.

Typical American way of doing things.....

[P3F]

4 hours ago, Missabassie said:

Typical American way of doing things.....

They're not adding regular lanes. They will either be HOV lanes or tolled lanes.

This and the Elmhurst project shouldn't be mutually exclusive. 

[N6 Limited]

This is the station that had stairs to Broadway?  If so, does that mean this station will allow a connection (even if just a walking connection) to the Q52/53 SBS and the QBL Elmhurst Ave Station?

 

On 9/26/2018 at 1:27 PM, P3F said:

They're not adding regular lanes. They will either be HOV lanes or tolled lanes.

This and the Elmhurst project shouldn't be mutually exclusive. 

Additional capacity on the Van Wyck Expressway would be useful since that section has the highest amount of traffic and the majority vehicles are trying to get between the Belt Parkway/Conduit and GCP/VWE north of the Kew Gardens Interchange, (not the Airport.) Had the Bushwick Expresway been built, many of the current vehicles wouldn't even bother to use the VWE).  

One of the main issues I see are grade changes. Northbound, the highway rises up to street level in order to go over the Queens Blvd Line (Both the Hillside Line and the Archer Line), then dips back down to go under Queens Blvd. That causes a perpetual back up until like 11pm.

Southbound, the same grade changes causes a back up, to the LIRR tracks just before Atlantic Ave. Then traffic either opens up, or there's another line of congestion that tends to extend to Linden Blvd and magically opens up.

 

[P3F]

6 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

This is the station that had stairs to Broadway?  If so, does that mean this station will allow a connection (even if just a walking connection) to the Q52/53 SBS and the QBL Elmhurst Ave Station?

 

Additional capacity on the Van Wyck Expressway would be useful since that section has the highest amount of traffic and the majority vehicles are trying to get between the Belt Parkway/Conduit and GCP/VWE north of the Kew Gardens Interchange, (not the Airport.) Had the Bushwick Expresway been built, many of the current vehicles wouldn't even bother to use the VWE).  

One of the main issues I see are grade changes. Northbound, the highway rises up to street level in order to go over the Queens Blvd Line (Both the Hillside Line and the Archer Line), then dips back down to go under Queens Blvd. That causes a perpetual back up until like 11pm.

Southbound, the same grade changes causes a back up, to the LIRR tracks just before Atlantic Ave. Then traffic either opens up, or there's another line of congestion that tends to extend to Linden Blvd and magically opens up.

 

How do grade changes cause traffic?

 

The Bushwick expressway could be completed from JFK west to Atlantic Av without significant property seizure. That wouldn't be very useful, though, because Atlantic Av just leads to Downtown Brooklyn which already is a pain to drive through, and isn't most people's destination.

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, P3F said:

How do grade changes cause traffic?

 

The Bushwick expressway could be completed from JFK west to Atlantic Av without significant property seizure. That wouldn't be very useful, though, because Atlantic Av just leads to Downtown Brooklyn which already is a pain to drive through, and isn't most people's destination.

Depending on how terrible they are, they can cause trucks to slow down. It's a major reason why Kosciuszko traffic was so bad going uphill on the old bridge.

[bulk88]

Thank god they got rid of Elmhurst station proposal. Adds running time and nobody would use it unless the price was equal to the subway. Flushing and Woodside are close enough transfers for nassau to queens commuters. It was a station born out of "every city council district must have a station on all train tracks going through it no matter the traffic count" political theory. Sunnyside station was just as ill thought of a huge waste of running time and its stairs left you in the middle of nowhere on Queens Boulevard viaduct over the yard. If LIC the destination really had the traffic, HPA would be far busier.

[RR503]

4 hours ago, bulk88 said:

Thank god they got rid of Elmhurst station proposal. Adds running time and nobody would use it unless the price was equal to the subway. Flushing and Woodside are close enough transfers for nassau to queens commuters. It was a station born out of "every city council district must have a station on all train tracks going through it no matter the traffic count" political theory. Sunnyside station was just as ill thought of a huge waste of running time and its stairs left you in the middle of nowhere on Queens Boulevard viaduct over the yard. If LIC the destination really had the traffic, HPA would be far busier.

It’s all but certain that Atlantic Ticket will be expanded. Making these investments is thus crucial — you can’t let these trains, many of which run well below capacity, run through areas without sufficient transit access. That’s bad planning. 

And while I agree that the Sunnyside station plan is a mistake (we don’t need trains plugging Harold moreso than today), the idea that HPA’s lack of ridership is indicative of LIC not being a big market is (not to single you out) a perfect epitomization of the sort of logic logic that is killing this agency. The station doesn’t get ridership because a) we don’t serve it in any defensible manner and b) it’s all but inaccessible to downtown LIC — to say nothing of the fact that it’s an objectively unpleasant station. 

Really speaking, what should be done with LIC is a Lower Montauk Branch/Montauk Cutoff rebuild to a new terminal station at the foot of Queens Boulevard. That gets that area of Queens some semblance of transit service, and kills the 15 min walk from downtown LIC to HPA.  

[Around the Horn]

13 hours ago, bulk88 said:

If LIC the destination really had the traffic, HPA would be far busier.

Uh, have you seen the schedule for HPA?

I don't blame people for not wanting to use a station with only 12 AM arrivals and 11 PM departures. Same thing for LIC with only 6 AM arrivals and 5 PM departures.

[Orion6025]

13 hours ago, RR503 said:

Sunnyside station plan is a mistake (we don’t need trains plugging Harold

The sunnyside station is still a thing?