The Official Bee-Line Thread

[Lawrence St]

42 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I wouldn't know it.... I haven't taken the BxMC4 since they cut weekend service & increased the fare.... It's one of the few routes in all of the NYC metropolitan area that I actually want gone.

Surprisingly buses are actually leaving mostly full to full during rush hour.

I wouldn’t say I want it gone, but severely modified with service north of ardsley rd cut.

[JAzumah]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I haven't taken the BxMC4 since they cut weekend service & increased the fare.... It's one of the few routes in all of the NYC metropolitan area that I actually want gone.

Is that you sticking the pin in the BxM4C doll? /sarc

It is going to stick around post-Liberty Lines with a little bit more shoulder service (AM & PM). The X factor for this route is Empire City Casino as it can backfill buses in the reverse direction.

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, JAzumah said:

Is that you sticking the pin in the BxM4C doll? /sarc

It is going to stick around post-Liberty Lines with a little bit more shoulder service (AM & PM). The X factor for this route is Empire City Casino as it can backfill buses in the reverse direction.

Wym “it is” going to stick around? The county wants it gone.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, JAzumah said:

Is that you sticking the pin in the BxM4C doll? /sarc

It is going to stick around post-Liberty Lines with a little bit more shoulder service (AM & PM). The X factor for this route is Empire City Casino as it can backfill buses in the reverse direction.

Oh, this sentiment isn't new by a longshot... I've wanted it gone since weekday peak riders basically said F' you to off-peak & weekend riders (and ended up getting their wish)... Lol.

The Casino is the exact reason why I think they were short-sighted in killing off Saturday service in-particular.... I used to ride the thing from end to end (the walk from Tarrytown rd. to the {now, defunct) Galleria was always fun ) & would watch about 75% of pax. disembark the thing at the Casino)... Morning or afternoon NB trips, didn't really matter.... This was around the time Bee-Line had more of those Fort Hill rd. short turns on weekends than they did those Cross County Mall short turns on the BL-20...

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Surprisingly buses are actually leaving mostly full to full during rush hour.

I wouldn’t say I want it gone, but severely modified with service north of ardsley rd cut.

I'd give it the C4 treatment (hence why I've been purposely calling it the BxMC4 for years), regardless of the ridership gains it's gotten.... Perceived low ridership has nothing to do with it.

But yeah, it's pointless to still have them running to (basically) Tarrytown rd.... Ardsley sounds about right for where peak riders generally don't ride past/ride from....

[Lawrence St]

6 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Oh, this sentiment isn't new by a longshot... I've wanted it gone since weekday peak riders basically said F' you to off-peak & weekend riders (and ended up getting their wish)... Lol.

The Casino is the exact reason why I think they were short-sighted in killing off Saturday service in-particular.... I used to ride the thing from end to end (the walk from Tarrytown rd. to the {now, defunct) Galleria was always fun ) & would watch about 75% of pax. disembark the thing at the Casino)... Morning or afternoon NB trips, didn't really matter.... This was around the time Bee-Line had more of those Fort Hill rd. short turns on weekends than they did those Cross County Mall short turns on the BL-20...

I'd give it the C4 treatment (hence why I've been purposely calling it the BxMC4 for years), regardless of the ridership gains it's gotten.... Perceived low ridership has nothing to do with it.

But yeah, it's pointless to still have them running to (basically) Tarrytown rd.... Ardsley sounds about right for where peak riders generally don't ride past/ride from....

See this is why I wish we were able to see ridership trip by trip on all the BxM’s (including the 4C) because I want to see if off peak service is being “well used” as they say it is.

[B35 via Church]

11 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

See this is why I wish we were able to see ridership trip by trip on all the BxM’s (including the 4C) because I want to see if off peak service is being “well used” as they say it is.

The express bus haters would have a field day with that information... Let's just put it that way.

[JAzumah]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

See this is why I wish we were able to see ridership trip by trip on all the BxM’s (including the 4C) because I want to see if off peak service is being “well used” as they say it is.

Ask the Operations Planning department for one of their ridership surveys by route. You might get it. They do ridership by trip 2x yearly as part of their NTD data collection. I believe the farebox also tracks this info. AFAIK, the 7 carries most of the off-peak traffic.

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Oh, this sentiment isn't new by a longshot... I've wanted it gone since weekday peak riders basically said F' you to off-peak & weekend riders (and ended up getting their wish)... Lol.

The Casino is the exact reason why I think they were short-sighted in killing off Saturday service in-particular.... I used to ride the thing from end to end (the walk from Tarrytown rd. to the {now, defunct) Galleria was always fun ) & would watch about 75% of pax. disembark the thing at the Casino)... Morning or afternoon NB trips, didn't really matter.... This was around the time Bee-Line had more of those Fort Hill rd. short turns on weekends than they did those Cross County Mall short turns on the BL-20...

I'd give it the C4 treatment (hence why I've been purposely calling it the BxMC4 for years), regardless of the ridership gains it's gotten.... Perceived low ridership has nothing to do with it.

But yeah, it's pointless to still have them running to (basically) Tarrytown rd.... Ardsley sounds about right for where peak riders generally don't ride past/ride from....

Which was extremely dumb on their part, because most of the casino patronage comes from Manhattan and the Bronx (specifically off the ). 

[Cait Sith]

9 hours ago, JAzumah said:

Is that you sticking the pin in the BxM4C doll? /sarc

It is going to stick around post-Liberty Lines with a little bit more shoulder service (AM & PM). The X factor for this route is Empire City Casino as it can backfill buses in the reverse direction.

Until that redesign kicks in, whenever that will be. Whoever gets control of the operation will have to take on the redesign as well, and word is that the county wants Liberty Lines gone(and apparently, they fully own the BxM4C). They've also started retiring the Suburban Orion Vs.

Edited February 11 by Cait Sith

[TyBusLover1]

23 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Until that redesign kicks in, whenever that will be. Whoever gets control of the operation will have to take on the redesign as well, and word is that the county wants Liberty Lines gone(and apparently, they fully own the BxM4C). They've also started retiring the Suburban Orion Vs.

It’ll be hard to say goodbye to liberty lines AND the bxm4c😢 (Even though that won’t be too soon) 

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Which was extremely dumb on their part, because most of the casino patronage comes from Manhattan and the Bronx (specifically off the ). 

Exactly.

1 hour ago, Cait Sith said:

Until that redesign kicks in, whenever that will be. Whoever gets control of the operation will have to take on the redesign as well, and word is that the county wants Liberty Lines gone(and apparently, they fully own the BxM4C). They've also started retiring the Suburban Orion Vs.

I've been hearing rumblings about that well before talks of a redesign became public.... In any event, who's in the running for taking over the county's surface transit operations?

[Cait Sith]

38 minutes ago, TyBusLover1 said:

It’ll be hard to say goodbye to liberty lines AND the bxm4c😢 (Even though that won’t be too soon) 

Eh, not really. Liberty Lines has shafted the county numerous times for money and have done nothing to increase service. They've done more to decrease service in some areas than actually improve service.

2 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Exactly.

I've been hearing rumblings about that well before talks of a redesign became public.... In any event, who's in the running for taking over the county's surface transit operations?

Last I heard, Liberty Lines and Transdev were among the bidders.

If Transdev wins, that would be extremely ironic given that Hudson Link is not that far off, and Transdev had this vision of implementing express routes to/from The Bronx and Manhattan(not drafted yet). They had this idea of replacing the 21 line with an express route.

[JAzumah]

1 hour ago, Cait Sith said:

Whoever gets control of the operation will have to take on the redesign as well, and word is that the county wants Liberty Lines gone(and apparently, they fully own the BxM4C).

Let's just say I can apply for the authority to run the 4C tomorrow. The fact that the county wants to kill it would be a major factor in the ensuing route proceeding. If LLT wins (which I expect them to), then the 4C will be discontinued and I can apply for Emergency Temporary Authority to receive the authority. If Transdev wins, the rumor is that LLT might continue the operation on their own and I would leave it alone. I would prefer not to operate the 4C before September, but that change could happen as soon as July 1 if LLT wins. Based on the articles that I have received, LLT does own the BxM4C.

 

12 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Last I heard, Liberty Lines and Transdev were among the bidders.

That would make sense. The question is whether LLT is using their route ownership dispute as leverage. The announcement is taking a little longer than I would expect.

[Cait Sith]

2 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

Let's just say I can apply for the authority to run the 4C tomorrow. The fact that the county wants to kill it would be a major factor in the ensuing route proceeding. If LLT wins (which I expect them to), then the 4C will be discontinued and I can apply for Emergency Temporary Authority to receive the authority. If Transdev wins, the rumor is that LLT might continue the operation on their own and I would leave it alone. I would prefer not to operate the 4C before September, but that change could happen as soon as July 1 if LLT wins. Based on the articles that I have received, LLT does own the BxM4C.

 

That would make sense. The question is whether LLT is using their route ownership dispute as leverage. The announcement is taking a little longer than I would expect.

Late March/Early April is apparently when they'll select who gets control according to one of their addendums.

[B35 via Church]

39 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Last I heard, Liberty Lines and Transdev were among the bidders.

If Transdev wins, that would be extremely ironic given that Hudson Link is not that far off, and Transdev had this vision of implementing express routes to/from The Bronx and Manhattan(not drafted yet). They had this idea of replacing the 21 line with an express route.

They had the same vision for NICEBus with those MDX routes back in 2018, IINM....

There's a reason that the BxM4D is no longer a thing, with the BxM4C in & of itself being on the chopping block...

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

They had the same vision for NICEBus with those MDX routes back in 2018, IINM....

There's a reason that the BxM4D is no longer a thing, with the BxM4C in & of itself being on the chopping block...

The BxM4D was only created because of the railroad strike. The reason why the BxM4C wasn't apart of the MTA takeover is because it was based out of the local garage and not the express garage (which is now Yonkers).

 

5 hours ago, JAzumah said:

Let's just say I can apply for the authority to run the 4C tomorrow. The fact that the county wants to kill it would be a major factor in the ensuing route proceeding. If LLT wins (which I expect them to), then the 4C will be discontinued and I can apply for Emergency Temporary Authority to receive the authority. If Transdev wins, the rumor is that LLT might continue the operation on their own and I would leave it alone. I would prefer not to operate the 4C before September, but that change could happen as soon as July 1 if LLT wins. Based on the articles that I have received, LLT does own the BxM4C.

 

That would make sense. The question is whether LLT is using their route ownership dispute as leverage. The announcement is taking a little longer than I would expect.

HA! Good luck getting people off the train. The 4C is done, it's been done since the 2010 cuts.

 

5 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Eh, not really. Liberty Lines has shafted the county numerous times for money and have done nothing to increase service. They've done more to decrease service in some areas than actually improve service.

Last I heard, Liberty Lines and Transdev were among the bidders.

If Transdev wins, that would be extremely ironic given that Hudson Link is not that far off, and Transdev had this vision of implementing express routes to/from The Bronx and Manhattan(not drafted yet). They had this idea of replacing the 21 line with an express route.

I disagree, it's not the company that's not increasing service, it's the county. All operations (except the 4C) are owned by the WDOT (or NYSDOT depending on the route), which is why it's so dam hard to get any change done in the network. I know because I've tried several times to ask them to change things. The 32 for example, loses time because it has to go on Buena Vista for no reason and often gets stuck behind double parked cars and illegally parked cars instead of just going straight on Riverdale. I think I asked 3 times before I started the new job and never received a response.

[Cait Sith]

Just now, Lawrence St said:

The BxM4D was only created because of the railroad strike. The reason why the BxM4C wasn't apart of the MTA takeover is because it was based out of the local garage and not the express garage (which is now Yonkers).

 

HA! Good luck getting people off the train. The 4C is done, it's been done since the 2010 cuts.

 

I disagree, it's not the company that's not increasing service, it's the county. All operations (except the 4C) are owned by the WDOT (or NYSDOT depending on the route), which is why it's so dam hard to get any change done in the network. I know because I've tried several times to ask them to change things. The 32 for example, loses time because it has to go on Buena Vista for no reason and often gets stuck behind double parked cars and illegally parked cars instead of just going straight on Riverdale. I think I asked 3 times before I started the new job and never received a response.

There's an entire report from a public transit watchdog group about how Liberty Lines handle funds and how the County has shown massive favoritism towards them. Both the county and Liberty Lines are responsible, however, Liberty Lines is more wasteful with money compared to other smaller agencies, especially with deadhead times and other things.

[Lawrence St]

21 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

There's an entire report from a public transit watchdog group about how Liberty Lines handle funds and how the County has shown massive favoritism towards them. Both the county and Liberty Lines are responsible, however, Liberty Lines is more wasteful with money compared to other smaller agencies, especially with deadhead times and other things.

We can agree to disagree. I'd like to know what deadhead's you think are wasteful (other then the weekend ones which have a point).

[B35 via Church]

22 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

The BxM4D was only created because of the railroad strike. The reason why the BxM4C wasn't apart of the MTA takeover is because it was based out of the local garage and not the express garage (which is now Yonkers).

My point is that coming out with a mini sub-network of direct Westchester-Manhattan routes will end up being a massive waste of money... Just like those MDX routes I brought up that Transdev proposed for NICEBus, IDK what it is they're seeing that has them thinking or believing that there's a demand for anymore direct bus service to/from Manhattan... The BxM3 doesn't do hot at all within Yonkers  (the masses are clearly content with taking local buses to the ) & the BxMC4 is what it is at this point.... I would hope that they are not foolish enough to rely on blind faith with whatever routes they (Transdev) had/has in mind....

I mean, Central Park av in & of itself with the BxMC4 is a terrible road for commuters to be kiss & riding along... God help you if you don't have someone to give you a ride; No way in f*** if I lived in the suburbs, would I subject myself to hoofing it out from my place of residence  - especially with terrain in mind, crossing Central Park av. (esp. certain parts of it over others) to catch a bus... It's enough that it's done with the BL-20/21....

[40 to 241st]

11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

My point is that coming out with a mini sub-network of direct Westchester-Manhattan routes will end up being a massive waste of money... Just like those MDX routes I brought up that Transdev proposed for NICEBus, IDK what it is they're seeing that has them thinking or believing that there's a demand for anymore direct bus service to/from Manhattan... The BxM3 doesn't do hot at all within Yonkers  (the masses are clearly content with taking local buses to the ) & the BxMC4 is what it is at this point.... I would hope that they are not foolish enough to rely on blind faith with whatever routes they (Transdev) had/has in mind....

I mean, Central Park av in & of itself with the BxMC4 is a terrible road for commuters to be kiss & riding along... God help you if you don't have someone to give you a ride; No way in f*** if I lived in the suburbs, would I subject myself to hoofing it out from my place of residence  - especially with terrain in mind, crossing Central Park av. (esp. certain parts of it over others) to catch a bus... It's enough that it's done with the BL-20/21....

Oh my, goodness thank you so much for this post I just realized that there's not much demand for express buses running from  Westchester to Manhattan. Honestly I feel like transdev likes to overdo a lot when it come to route they run the Hudson Link and look at all the redundancies that run within that company. Just to look at how stupid there Nassau to Manhattan proposals where just imagine what they'd have in store for Bee-line. 

I wouldn't say making more Westchester- Manhattan routes would end being a waste of money I'd rather say it depends on where you put it like if you put another one at Yonkers (like what I use to want) that would be dumb because the Bxm3 is enough and the Bxm1/2/18 are at the border. If I put it somewhere like New Rochelle that might work out. But knowing transdev they will do something stupid like what we see with H03/5 which honestly needs to be one route which is what I think would happen if they operated Bee-Line. 

I don't know exactly what your trying to say about the Bxm4c but if I were to guess your saying that an express bus from Westchester to Manhattan shouldn't cover Central Av but why. 

 

[B35 via Church]

12 hours ago, 40 to 241st said:

I don't know exactly what your trying to say about the Bxm4c but if I were to guess your saying that an express bus from Westchester to Manhattan shouldn't cover Central Av but why.

Do you know what kiss & riding is?

[40 to 241st]

9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Do you know what kiss & riding is?

Ok I searched it up and found that it means something we’re you park to get a ride on something like a bus or train. So you were trying to say that you don’t like the idea of people parking along or near central avenue to get a ride on the bxm4c 

[Lawrence St]

12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Do you know what kiss & riding is?

Don't bother, it'll be an endless pointless argument with him.

In other news.

There's been opposition for the changes to the 1W, 1C, 5, 20, and 17.

[RSMG106]

124 from Valhalla garage has been retired. This means that 125 is the last remaining Orion V short out of Valhalla. 123, 127, and 129 from PTLA are still active.

[TyBusLover1]

35 minutes ago, RSMG106 said:

124 from Valhalla garage has been retired. This means that 125 is the last remaining Orion V short out of Valhalla. 123, 127, and 129 from PTLA are still active.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they were all retired by early next week.