Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Cait Sith]

Getting back on topic, I've been hearing that the MTA has largely scaled back on the ideas from the recent draft....another draft will be coming out with some routes being restored to what they currently are, with alterations to existing proposals.

And before anyone asks, there's currently no set date on when the next draft will come out. Changes are still ongoing.

I remember saying how there will be multiple drafts coming out for Queens in various places, and some people didn't believe me....lol.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Cait Sith

[N6 Limited]

27 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The lights are not synched on purpose.  That's all part of the Vision Zero program, which deters speeding. You can't travel at high speeds if you have to stop every so many blocks.  Furthermore, to actually envision the plan that DOT wants would cost much much more, so they've taken a blanket approach Citywide in an attempt to keep costs down. You take one or two designs. You examine the costs for those two options and then you expand it.  That's pretty much what is happening, and the DOT has been very clear about this approach when re-designing streets. The goal is to deter speeding and decrease fatalities first and foremost.

P.S. NYC is now the most congested in the country.

What is the plan that DOT wants?

28 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sorry, but registrations for cars here in NYC has definitely increased. That is a fact - a 40% increase back in 2021.

Maybe the increase in novice drivers is the cause?  I’ve observed road capacity reduced just by the actions(or lack thereof) of other drivers.

44 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

Lemme ask you guys this.

When has adding more lanes and highways incentivized people to take the subway or bus?......

Speaking of which, years after the JFK Airtrain has been in service, they’re adding HOV lanes to the Van Wyck Expressway.

If they want to incentivize people to take the subway or bus then they should try to improve regional service and fare options. Like they’ve started doing with City Ticket, Combo Tickets, Grand Central Madison, New bus routes in the redesigns, planning on Interborough Express, MNRR to Penn, but also thinking about options like Newark/Secaucus to Jamaica through service, etc. Make travel by public transportation cheap, easy and desirable.  I mean even with the exorbitant tolls, sometimes it’s cheaper to drive than to take the train/bus, especially with a group/family.

Remember, all highway traffic is not local nor can be easily or reasonably replicated by transit. When they close the VZB for the NYC Marathon, the Belt Parkway and BQE are bliss. Perhaps an Interborough Express westward extension to Staten Island North Shore line with a western terminus at Newark/Newark Airport/Jersey Gardens would help somewhat.

Reducing the city speed limit to 25mph and reducing lanes so that the 40mph (at best) subway is the faster option is not the way. They slowed down bus service with the 25MPH cap and are still surprised ridership is dropping? Should an electric bike be faster than the bus? Actually, now that they have the speed cameras, they can increase the thoroughfares (with buses/bus lanes at least) back to 30-35, that alone may increase bus ridership.

Our region is an archipelago containing disconnected transit systems with Manhattan right in the middle, maybe a circle line that went through the outer boroughs and NJ would help.

 

 

 

 

[N6 Limited]

1 hour ago, Cait Sith said:

Getting back on topic, I've been hearing that the MTA has largely scaled back on the ideas from the recent draft....another draft will be coming out with some routes being restored to what they currently are, with alterations to existing proposals.

And before anyone asks, there's currently no set date on when the next draft will come out. Changes are still ongoing.

I remember saying how there will be multiple drafts coming out for Queens in various places, and some people didn't believe me....lol.

Is it due to rider feedback, or the budget crisis?

[Cait Sith]

Just now, N6 Limited said:

Is it due to rider feedback, or the budget crisis?

Largely because of rider feedback.

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The way to mitigate it is to improve public transportation.  The City is not built to withstand the amount of vehicular congestion we are seeing, so the City and DOT are essentially coming up with hostile ways to disincentivize people driving.  Traffic has skyrocketed on the BQE because more people stopped using public transportation and are instead DRIVING.  That is a fact. I know quite a few people that used to take the express bus into Manhattan that now drive every day.  If you lose ten people that stop taking public transportation that now drive, unless they carpool, that's now ten cars on the road that didn't exist before.

As someone who gets around by car and public transit, there is a place for cars and a place for public transit and right now because public transit has deteriorated, we are seeing a shift to insane vehicular traffic, and WFH and the hybrid schedule are both exacerbating that problem.

Adding lanes induces more vehicular usage. This has been shown time and time again.  The reason lanes are being constricted is because you have too many people driving recklessly on the road.  That coupled with pedestrians, cyclists, etc. means lots more accidents.  We've also had a lot more streetcar racing, which has exacerbated the safety problem. While I don't fully agree with narrowing the streets, I do understand the reason. If more common sense was used, these measures likely wouldn't be as drastic as they have been, but traffic related fatalities have continued to increase.

The lights are not synched on purpose.  That's all part of the Vision Zero program, which deters speeding. You can't travel at high speeds if you have to stop every so many blocks.  Furthermore, to actually envision the plan that DOT wants would cost much much more, so they've taken a blanket approach Citywide in an attempt to keep costs down. You take one or two designs. You examine the costs for those two options and then you expand it.  That's pretty much what is happening, and the DOT has been very clear about this approach when re-designing streets. The goal is to deter speeding and decrease fatalities first and foremost.

P.S. NYC is now the most congested in the country.

Sorry, but registrations for cars here in NYC has definitely increased. That is a fact - a 40% increase back in 2021.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/new-york-car-ownership-jumps-nearly-40-as-pandemic-creates-mass-transit-worries/

That trend has not stopped either, as NYC now has the worst congestion in the country.

I was talking about the section between Hamilton and Atlantic southbound where traffic has not increased in 50 years and it is moving much faster because a bottleneck was removed. Northbound, on this same stretch, the opposite occurred. A lane was eliminated under the promenade, so now that section northbound is a parking lot all the time. So when you introduce a bottleneck, you increase congestion, and when you eliminate a bottleneck, you decrease congestion. This has been proven. End of discussion.

 

As far as the other things you talk about that more are using the BQE because they are shifting from mass transit, I doubt that is true. And as I explained adding lanes does not always induce vehicular usage. It can reduce congestion. NYC may be the most congested in the country, but it is NYCDOT policy that is causing that: eliminating parking and traffic lanes, out of sync signals, artificially low speed limits, less green time, unnecessary traffic channelization, turn restrictions that makes you go a half mile or more out of your way, unnecessary bus lanes or in effect when they are not necessary, etc. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

29 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I was talking about the section between Hamilton and Atlantic southbound where traffic has not increased in 50 years and it is moving much faster because a bottleneck was removed. Northbound, on this same stretch, the opposite occurred. A lane was eliminated under the promenade, so now that section northbound is a parking lot all the time. So when you introduce a bottleneck, you increase congestion, and when you eliminate a bottleneck, you decrease congestion. This has been proven. End of discussion.

 

As far as the other things you talk about that more are using the BQE because they are shifting from mass transit, I doubt that is true. And as I explained adding lanes does not always induce vehicular usage. It can reduce congestion. NYC may be the most congested in the country, but it is NYCDOT policy that is causing that: eliminating parking and traffic lanes, out of sync signals, artificially low speed limits, less green time, unnecessary traffic channelization, turn restrictions that makes you go a half mile or more out of your way, unnecessary bus lanes or in effect when they are not necessary, etc. 

You doubt it's true? You should ride along the Gowanus and see... Many mornings now there are more cars in the HOV lane than there are buses.  Car registrations are also up significantly, so while you may doubt it, those are hard facts that cannot be denied.  More people are driving all over the City.  Furthermore, we're adding hundreds of thousands more people.  Even if we were to assume that the majority of those people are using mass transit, even if there is just a small portion driving, that is still adding to the overall amount of vehicles on the road.  Yes, I do agree that the DOT is narrowing streets and creating more congestion, but that isn't the only reason congestion is so bad. We have far more cars on the road.  Now that I am work from home, I usually look to travel at times when there is less congestion, that means outside of rush hour and I notice how many cars are on the road.  Yes, traffic moves, but the vehicular volumes are definitely high.  

1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

1. What is the plan that DOT wants?

2. Maybe the increase in novice drivers is the cause?  I’ve observed road capacity reduced just by the actions(or lack thereof) of other drivers.

3. Speaking of which, years after the JFK Airtrain has been in service, they’re adding HOV lanes to the Van Wyck Expressway.

If they want to incentivize people to take the subway or bus then they should try to improve regional service and fare options. Like they’ve started doing with City Ticket, Combo Tickets, Grand Central Madison, New bus routes in the redesigns, planning on Interborough Express, MNRR to Penn, but also thinking about options like Newark/Secaucus to Jamaica through service, etc. Make travel by public transportation cheap, easy and desirable.  I mean even with the exorbitant tolls, sometimes it’s cheaper to drive than to take the train/bus, especially with a group/family.

4. Remember, all highway traffic is not local nor can be easily or reasonably replicated by transit. When they close the VZB for the NYC Marathon, the Belt Parkway and BQE are bliss. Perhaps an Interborough Express westward extension to Staten Island North Shore line with a western terminus at Newark/Newark Airport/Jersey Gardens would help somewhat.

5. Reducing the city speed limit to 25mph and reducing lanes so that the 40mph (at best) subway is the faster option is not the way. They slowed down bus service with the 25MPH cap and are still surprised ridership is dropping? Should an electric bike be faster than the bus? Actually, now that they have the speed cameras, they can increase the thoroughfares (with buses/bus lanes at least) back to 30-35, that alone may increase bus ridership.

Our region is an archipelago containing disconnected transit systems with Manhattan right in the middle, maybe a circle line that went through the outer boroughs and NJ would help.

1. My point was that Vision Zero is an expensive program (even this current version - you notice most of the changes involve repaving and paint vs. hard barriers) and if the DOT was really not using a "blanket program" for each situation, the costs would be much higher.  Everyone knows that each neighborhood is different in terms street layouts, etc. You have some areas that are on grids and other areas that are not.  That obviously complicates things.  Some streets are much wider to compensate for streets that are narrower.  If you look at how the DOT has reconfigured the layout of a number of streets, they have tried to use street treatments that can be found across a wide segment of the City.  Sometimes it doesn't work and they have to come back and do it again, as some streets are too narrow, but ideally, if Vision Zero was done correctly, you'd have an array of street treatment scenarios (in other words, more than the few that we have).  I've always noticed that during discussions with DOT folks in private or during presentations that they mention or note that there are budget restrictions (of course there always are, but in other words, they imply that they have researched layout plans in advance and run the costs for them and thus we shouldn't expect a wide array of options). They come up with a few designs, know what the costs are and that is that. That makes it easier to avoid cost overruns, something they struggled with under the previous administration.  

2. Yes, there are many novice drivers.  I recall reading somewhere that a sizable number of people were getting cars for the first time, so either new drivers or people that had a license, but maybe didn't drive much before that are driving more. There are number of New Yorkers that occasionally drive, so none of this surprises me.

3. Because the Van Wyck has been dealing chronic congestion... That's a perfect example of the vehicular congestion I was speaking of. A number of Queens express bus commuters have complained about this some days.  

Re: incentivizing people, I spoke with the  a few weeks ago about these redesigns.  I've been very outspoken and critical about them and their push for congestion pricing.  One of the people I deal with has been quite involved with the latest revisions and I've been giving them an earful, both by phone and by e-mail.  These redesigns are supposed to improve connections and the overall bus network, and they should include keeping or expanding the spans, as well as the frequencies.  That hasn't been happening.  I've also spoken with some elected officials out in Queens and elsewhere and we've come to a similar consensus that the previous drafts haven't gone far enough.  The  has said that these are only drafts and that that's why we need feedback, so I've been sure to give them plenty, not just in terms of my thoughts, but what others are saying in my group. Queens residents have been very upset and outspoken.  

Furthermore, while I did commend the  for expanding CityTicket and making it cheaper within NYC, I told them that it doesn't go far enough.  There are no free transfers for the railroads to the bus or subway, and if you live far out in an area with no subway, not everyone is going to Penn Station or Grand Central, so for those people, CityTicket is useless.  I have had a number of conference calls where I have complained that there needs to be fare capping included for all bus riders, something that currently only exists for local bus riders.  They are going to have to be far more aggressive in winning back riders, from more attractive fares to an overall better customer experience. Their real-time Customer Service also leaves a lot to be desired, especially if you need info on things like a missing bus.  They often times can't tell you if the bus is coming or not.  Just crazy.  I'm like but you're with the ... How do you not know where your own buses are?

4. Of course. There are some trips that make more sense by car.  That's why I noted earlier that I do get around by car and by transit.  Some trips are just easier by car.

5. Buses are losing ridership for a number of reasons.  Speed is one factor.  The other thing is you have transplants moving here (generally high income individuals - you have to be to afford to live here) that simply don't view the bus as something they should take.  If they do take it, it may be because it happens to be there, but they will easily hop into a cab or an Uber/Lyft if one isn't coming or get picked up.  Maybe they'll use the subway, and even that has been hit or miss.  You have many people now that no longer work in the office every day. That means that if they only go in twice or three times, it may be cheaper for them to drive AND they may not work the same hours, so these are two reasons that people may feel the need to not use public transit, myself included.  Compared to what I was spending on public transit, I'm lucky if I spend a $100 a month now and that's between the express bus and railroad.  Since I don't need to travel at rush hour the times that I do travel, that also makes it very enticing to just go by car, and that's what more people are doing now.  I know a lady that works on the Upper East. Before she took the express bus and then the subway.  Now she drives every day. Her hours are more flexible and she has parking.  Another lady  that works by Hudson Yards only has to come in twice a week. She also drives those days and parks.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

3 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Getting back on topic, I've been hearing that the MTA has largely scaled back on the ideas from the recent draft....another draft will be coming out with some routes being restored to what they currently are, with alterations to existing proposals.

And before anyone asks, there's currently no set date on when the next draft will come out. Changes are still ongoing.

I remember saying how there will be multiple drafts coming out for Queens in various places, and some people didn't believe me....lol.

Interesting to note. IDK how I feel about them scaling back stuff, because who knows what proposals they'll keep and modify, and what routes they would revert back to the way it was (at this time it's pure speculation). Not everything needs to be reverted back, but we'll see what happens. 

Perhaps the Queens redesign team may be better on this front, but if the Bronx bus redesign is any indicator of what's to come, it'll leave a lot to be desired. There are some decent plans, primarily with some of the interborough connections, although there are other questionable proposals. It would absolutely suck if some of those get axed, but then have something like the B53 somehow get left untouched (technically a Brooklyn route and in the Brooklyn redesign as well, but it was first concocted as part of the Queens redesign). 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Getting back on topic, I've been hearing that the MTA has largely scaled back on the ideas from the recent draft....another draft will be coming out with some routes being restored to what they currently are, with alterations to existing proposals.

And before anyone asks, there's currently no set date on when the next draft will come out. Changes are still ongoing.

There is no set date, but when I asked just a few weeks ago, I was told that they planned on releasing it in the first half of this year. They are going through writing of schedules and a number of other things that they claim that want to get done and done right.  To add to what you said, people will also have an opportunity to give feedback on this next draft and before anything is finalized as in voted on before the Board, I would expect some more changes.

22 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Interesting to note. IDK how I feel about them scaling back stuff, because who knows what proposals they'll keep and modify, and what routes they would revert back to the way it was (at this time it's pure speculation). Not everything needs to be reverted back, but we'll see what happens. 

Perhaps the Queens redesign team may be better on this front, but if the Bronx bus redesign is any indicator of what's to come, it'll leave a lot to be desired. There are some decent plans, primarily with some of the interborough connections, although there are other questionable proposals. It would absolutely suck if some of those get axed, but then have something like the B53 somehow get left untouched (technically a Brooklyn route and in the Brooklyn redesign as well, but it was first concocted as part of the Queens redesign). 

 

They are scaling back based on ridership feedback though and from the meetings where I presented in Queens, residents were not happy.  Lots of discussions on the local bus side about the amount of bus stops up for removal for one, reduction in span and frequency was the other big thing and loss of transfer connections. For example the loss of the  express transfer at Chevy Chase is something a number of people complained about.  

The meetings where I presented at were all in Northeast Queens and in College Point and Whitestone, I heard a lot about the Q25, Q65, etc. and how difficult it would be for people that would be forced into more transfers or longer commutes, including people that transfer to the express bus.  I have also heard a lot of requests to keep the QM3 and I made that clear to the Senator I spoke with who represents that area.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lawrence St]

6 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I was talking about the section between Hamilton and Atlantic southbound where traffic has not increased in 50 years and it is moving much faster because a bottleneck was removed. Northbound, on this same stretch, the opposite occurred. A lane was eliminated under the promenade, so now that section northbound is a parking lot all the time. So when you introduce a bottleneck, you increase congestion, and when you eliminate a bottleneck, you decrease congestion. This has been proven. End of discussion.

 

As far as the other things you talk about that more are using the BQE because they are shifting from mass transit, I doubt that is true. And as I explained adding lanes does not always induce vehicular usage. It can reduce congestion. NYC may be the most congested in the country, but it is NYCDOT policy that is causing that: eliminating parking and traffic lanes, out of sync signals, artificially low speed limits, less green time, unnecessary traffic channelization, turn restrictions that makes you go a half mile or more out of your way, unnecessary bus lanes or in effect when they are not necessary, etc. 

With that last part, most of these lanes are being eliminated to install bike lanes or pedestrian extension zones. What sucks more about it is it seems NYCDOT is doing whatever they want, whenever they want, regardless of the public input from community boards & local officials. I personally have not seen ANYONE advocating or wanting bike lanes or traffic mitigation on Riverdale Ave ( @Via Garibaldi 8 correct me if I’m wrong), and yet here they come changing the entire street grid and reducing it from 2 lanes to 1 in each direction.

[BrooklynBus]

10 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Getting back on topic, I've been hearing that the MTA has largely scaled back on the ideas from the recent draft....another draft will be coming out with some routes being restored to what they currently are, with alterations to existing proposals.

And before anyone asks, there's currently no set date on when the next draft will come out. Changes are still ongoing.

I remember saying how there will be multiple drafts coming out for Queens in various places, and some people didn't believe me....lol.

Queens is due out in a few weeks. Personally, I believe Queens is too big to be implemented all at once if the plan is done correctly. It needs to be considered as three separate boroughs, Northeast, Southeast and Northwest. 
 

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You doubt it's true? You should ride along the Gowanus and see... Many mornings now there are more cars in the HOV lane than there are buses.  Car registrations are also up significantly, so while you may doubt it, t

3. Because the Van Wyck has been dealing chronic congestion... That's a perfect example of the vehicular congestion I was speaking of. A number of Queens express bus commuters have complained about this some days.  

So now you are complaining too many cars are using HOV lanes? I thought car pooling was a good idea that we wanted to encourage? Maybe they are not using express buses is because they are so expensive or they don’t get a seat? It should be no more than twice the local fare with further discounts for regular commuters, and allow for a third transfer. Everyone should be guaranteed a seat for a premium fare. 

Also, the Van Wyck has had construction and reduced speeds for like ten years and probably another ten years. Totally ridiculous. Slow speed limits lower road capacity and that contributes to congestion. 

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

With that last part, most of these lanes are being eliminated to install bike lanes or pedestrian extension zones. What sucks more about it is it seems NYCDOT is doing whatever they want, whenever they want, regardless of the public input from community boards & local officials. I personally have not seen ANYONE advocating or wanting bike lanes or traffic mitigation on Riverdale Ave ( @Via Garibaldi 8 correct me if I’m wrong), and yet here they come changing the entire street grid and reducing it from 2 lanes to 1 in each direction.

You are exactly correct. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There is no set date, but when I asked just a few weeks ago, I was told that they planned on releasing it in the first half of this year. They are going through writing of schedules and a number of other things that they claim that want to get done and done right.  To add to what you said, people will also have an opportunity to give feedback on this next draft and before anything is finalized as in voted on before the Board, I would expect some more changes.

They are scaling back based on ridership feedback though and from the meetings where I presented in Queens, residents were not happy.  Lots of discussions on the local bus side about the amount of bus stops up for removal for one, reduction in span and frequency was the other big thing and loss of transfer connections. For example the loss of the  express transfer at Chevy Chase is something a number of people complained about.  

The meetings where I presented at were all in Northeast Queens and in College Point and Whitestone, I heard a lot about the Q25, Q65, etc. and how difficult it would be for people that would be forced into more transfers or longer commutes, including people that transfer to the express bus.  I have also heard a lot of requests to keep the QM3 and I made that clear to the Senator I spoke with who represents that area.

To be clear, I'm not speaking from a position that the MTA this time around got it right with the second Queens draft. There's still stuff they shouldn't have changed and other things that seems like were arbitrarily changed (just for the sake of changing things). My concern is that while they very well scale back some stuff and modify their plans, I don't believe they're going to change everything. There will be some things that the MTA is going to be adamant on keeping, and gut some of the other stuff. Reason why I brought the Box redesign as a comparison was because even though they made changes, some of the worse parts of that redesign IMO remained, such as the Bx15/M125 split, (even though ridership patterns on the former Bx15 did not reflect having to split it at 149th St), and the Q50 service level & route between PBP and Co-Op City. 

As far as the Queens redesign goes, those local routes you mentioned, are ones that I alluded to earlier (regarding them changing them for the sake of changing them). On the express bus side of stuff, the routings themselves are generally better than in the past (there's still parts that I don't necessarily agree with). The service levels on the other hand, are not all that good, which I hope gets improved and not left unchanged. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

To be clear, I'm not speaking from a position that the MTA this time around got it right with the second Queens draft. There's still stuff they shouldn't have changed and other things that seems like were arbitrarily changed (just for the sake of changing things). My concern is that while they very well scale back some stuff and modify their plans, I don't believe they're going to change everything. There will be some things that the MTA is going to be adamant on keeping, and gut some of the other stuff. Reason why I brought the Box redesign as a comparison was because even though they made changes, some of the worse parts of that redesign IMO remained, such as the Bx15/M125 split, (even though ridership patterns on the former Bx15 did not reflect having to split it at 149th St), and the Q50 service level & route between PBP and Co-Op City. 

As far as the Queens redesign goes, those local routes you mentioned, are ones that I alluded to earlier (regarding them changing them for the sake of changing them). On the express bus side of stuff, the routings themselves are generally better than in the past (there's still parts that I don't necessarily agree with). The service levels on the other hand, are not all that good, which I hope gets improved and not left unchanged. 

Oh yes, you can never satisfy everyone.  Your comments about the Bx15/M125 split and the Q50 service levels... I have definitely heard people complaining about the new Q50 from Co-op City and the Bx23.  Neither are reliable or don't run enough.  That whole Bx15/M125 split is an example of eliminating options for riders. They felt too many lines ran across 125th and wanted people using one bus that wanted crosstown service. Serious cost savings, that's for sure. I just hope enough people spoke up.  It's more tricky now with people working from home or hybrid. People are not as vocal.

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

1. So now you are complaining too many cars are using HOV lanes? I thought car pooling was a good idea that we wanted to encourage? Maybe they are not using express buses is because they are so expensive or they don’t get a seat? It should be no more than twice the local fare with further discounts for regular commuters, and allow for a third transfer. Everyone should be guaranteed a seat for a premium fare. 

2. Also, the Van Wyck has had construction and reduced speeds for like ten years and probably another ten years. Totally ridiculous. Slow speed limits lower road capacity and that contributes to congestion. 

1. You are just showing your ignorance here. lol A large majority of those cars using the HOV lane are single occupancy vehicles abusing it.  They are using it because enforcement was lax for far too long. Finally we are seeing some enforcement, but it may be too late, as they try to avoid being caught. 

2. That's true, but you are also in denial about more registrations and more people driving.  That is happening too.

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

With that last part, most of these lanes are being eliminated to install bike lanes or pedestrian extension zones. What sucks more about it is it seems NYCDOT is doing whatever they want, whenever they want, regardless of the public input from community boards & local officials. I personally have not seen ANYONE advocating or wanting bike lanes or traffic mitigation on Riverdale Ave ( @Via Garibaldi 8 correct me if I’m wrong), and yet here they come changing the entire street grid and reducing it from 2 lanes to 1 in each direction.

NYCDOT does not need community input to do what they do.  Most of what they are doing is a done deal and yes it is frustrating.  They come to the community with a plan that they are set to implement, not a plan that they want the community to discuss and solicit feedback on.  Sad but true.  Community boards act as advisory only.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BrooklynBus]

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh yes, you can never satisfy everyone.  Your comments about the Bx15/M125 split and the Q50 service levels... I have definitely heard people complaining about the new Q50 from Co-op City and the Bx23.  Neither are reliable or don't run enough.  That whole Bx15/M125 split is an example of eliminating options for riders. They felt too many lines ran across 125th and wanted people using one bus that wanted crosstown service. Serious cost savings, that's for sure. I just hope enough people spoke up.  It's more tricky now with people working from home or hybrid. People are not as vocal.

1. You are just showing your ignorance here. lol A large majority of those cars using the HOV lane are single occupancy vehicles abusing it.  They are using it because enforcement was lax for far too long. Finally we are seeing some enforcement, but it may be too late, as they try to avoid being caught. 

2. That's true, but you are also in denial about more registrations and more people driving.  That is happening too.

NYCDOT does not need community input to do what they do.  Most of what they are doing is a done deal and yes it is frustrating.  They come to the community with a plan that they are set to implement, not a plan that they want the community to discuss and solicit feedback on.  Sad but true.  Community boards act as advisory only.

And why are more people driving? Because mass transit service is constantly being cut with fares rising. 
 

And DOT blatantly lies. They stated they only install bike lanes where the communities have requested them. Not true.  They also install bus lanes where they are unnecessary, not helping bus riders, but only done to slow down traffic further, increase congestion, make driving more difficult and raise revenue. Yet with all this, more are driving. So what does that tell you? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

27 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

1. And why are more people driving? Because mass transit service is constantly being cut with fares rising. 
 

2. And DOT blatantly lies. They stated they only install bike lanes where the communities have requested them. Not true.  They also install bus lanes where they are unnecessary, not helping bus riders, but only done to slow down traffic further, increase congestion, make driving more difficult and raise revenue. Yet with all this, more are driving. So what does that tell you? 

1 & 2. There are many many reasons why people are driving.  I mentioned some of them before.  For years, you've had the attitude with the  of "if you don't like it, drive". This has been manifested in the way service has been run for YEARS, from the poor attitude of bus operators, as well as some saying that some communities don't need such and such service (some bus drivers still say this in fact, which I don't get, as they are advocating for LESS work for their colleagues lol).  There was a bus operator in the Queens Redesign Group doing just that.  Only when I pointed out that if they cut such and such local bus line, it would mean less work for him and his colleagues did he make the connection. I mean there is only so much work to go around and with the  when they cut service, they believe in gutting it, so people would lose their jobs. There is no question about that, and this happened back in 2010 when they cut a lot of bus service.

You also have some New Yorkers moving here with the means to afford to drive and they are because they can and those people would likely be doing so regardless of what was happening with the . Then you have the people that are fed up with using the  and the poor service and overall poor experience and rude behavior.  Those people now either drive always or have cut back their use of public transit considerably and WFH has further exacerbated the problem.

And yes, DOT does lie.  As I said earlier, they come in with a plan in place and the community is just told about it and it's pretty much a done deal.

You say "and people are still driving" as if that's a good thing.  It's not... I am far from anti-car, because as I said, I do get around by car as well, but looking at this from a practical standpoint, when you have people ditching public transit to drive here in NYC, a City that is not laid out to have so many cars on the road, it almost always means more congestion.  This is not an either or situation where the blame is squarely on DOT either. Yes, they are exacerbating the problem for sure by constricting streets and taking away parking to make driving more difficult and they should be.  We simply do not have the space available to have hundreds of thousands of more cars on our streets.  What are we seeing now is people driving because of convenience and once people become comfortable, it is VERY difficult to break them from wanting to drive.  All of it means higher costs for the City.  Congestion means less productivity, lost revenue for the  (and the City) and so on. I didn't even mention the environmental impact.

What's dangerous with the  is they absolutely know that they need to cut their operating expenses sooner rather than later, especially with farebox revenues being down substantially, and so while they know bus ridership has declined and was declining even pre-pandemic, they still are trying to find a way to do more with less and cut service.  The culture at the  needs to change though.  They have made strides for sure, but there's a long way to go.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh yes, you can never satisfy everyone.  Your comments about the Bx15/M125 split and the Q50 service levels... I have definitely heard people complaining about the new Q50 from Co-op City and the Bx23.  Neither are reliable or don't run enough.  That whole Bx15/M125 split is an example of eliminating options for riders. They felt too many lines ran across 125th and wanted people using one bus that wanted crosstown service. Serious cost savings, that's for sure. I just hope enough people spoke up.  It's more tricky now with people working from home or hybrid. People are not as vocal.

1. You are just showing your ignorance here. lol A large majority of those cars using the HOV lane are single occupancy vehicles abusing it.  They are using it because enforcement was lax for far too long. Finally we are seeing some enforcement, but it may be too late, as they try to avoid being caught. 

2. That's true, but you are also in denial about more registrations and more people driving.  That is happening too.

NYCDOT does not need community input to do what they do.  Most of what they are doing is a done deal and yes it is frustrating.  They come to the community with a plan that they are set to implement, not a plan that they want the community to discuss and solicit feedback on.  Sad but true.  Community boards act as advisory only.

And that’s exactly why legislation in NYC needs to change. 

Other then VERY FEW “safe streets” advocates I’ve heard from, the logistics of changing an entire street grid to appease less the 2% of the population is atrocious. NYCDOT can not pick and choose who listen to. If one Streetsblog says that 8th Avenue has to many cars, and literally every resident opposes a plan to do any change, why does NYCDOT basically go “yeah, screw you, we’re gonna do it anyway.”

Literally every recent NYCDOT project I’ve seen (except fixing the retaining wall on the SB HHP), is road diet this, road diet that, bike lane here, bike lane there, speed camera here, red camera here, while residents are literally screaming that they don’t want it.

And I understand that NYC is a pedestrian city, but NOT in every single street. I could understand imposing a 25 MPH limit on more pedestrian dense zones such as 42nd St, but a 25 MPH limit on Cross Bay Blvd, Atlantic Ave, Pelham Parkway, etc? Come on now.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

1 & 2. There are many many reasons why people are driving.  I mentioned some of them before.  For years, you've had the attitude with the  of "if you don't like it, drive". This has been manifested in the way service has been run for YEARS, from the poor attitude of bus operators, as well as some saying that some communities don't need such and such service (some bus drivers still say this in fact, which I don't get, as they are advocating for LESS work for their colleagues lol).  There was a bus operator in the Queens Redesign Group doing just that.  Only when I pointed out that if they cut such and such local bus line, it would mean less work for him and his colleagues did he make the connection. I mean there is only so much work to go around and with the  when they cut service, they believe in gutting it, so people would lose their jobs. There is no question about that, and this happened back in 2010 when they cut a lot of bus service.

You also have some New Yorkers moving here with the means to afford to drive and they are because they can and those people would likely be doing so regardless of what was happening with the . Then you have the people that are fed up with using the  and the poor service and overall poor experience and rude behavior.  Those people now either drive always or have cut back their use of public transit considerably and WFH has further exacerbated the problem.

And yes, DOT does lie.  As I said earlier, they come in with a plan in place and the community is just told about it and it's pretty much a done deal.

You say "and people are still driving" as if that's a good thing.  It's not... I am far from anti-car, because as I said, I do get around by car as well, but looking at this from a practical standpoint, when you have people ditching public transit to drive here in NYC, a City that is not laid out to have so many cars on the road, it almost always means more congestion.  This is not an either or situation where the blame is squarely on DOT either. Yes, they are exacerbating the problem for sure by constricting streets and taking away parking to make driving more difficult and they should be.  We simply do not have the space available to have hundreds of thousands of more cars on our streets.  What are we seeing now is people driving because of convenience and once people become comfortable, it is VERY difficult to break them from wanting to drive.  All of it means higher costs for the City.  Congestion means less productivity, lost revenue for the  (and the City) and so on. I didn't even mention the environmental impact.

What's dangerous with the  is they absolutely know that they need to cut their operating expenses sooner rather than later, especially with farebox revenues being down substantially, and so while they know bus ridership has declined and was declining even pre-pandemic, they still are trying to find a way to do more with less and cut service.  The culture at the  needs to change though.  They have made strides for sure, but there's a long way to go.

I can’t really disagree with what you said here. The main reason people choose to drive over mass transit, even with the difficulties that DOT causes, is that it is still quicker for many trips, they are assured of getting a seat, they have gear to carry, using the system requires too much walking, and the system isn’t set up to handle many regional trips. 
 

And yes we do not need more cars on the road. So what is the answer to encourage more use of mass transit? Regional bus routes to make more trips available by mass transit. The MTA is not doing that. Provide more seats and more frequent service. The MTA’s newest cars provide no more seats than a city bus which has also been reduced in the past 50 years, The MTA constantly cuts service. Make it easier to carry gear on buses. The MTA has made that more difficult on buses by placing barriers above the wheel covers to prevent you from leaving your groceries there. They are reducing the number of bus stops to increase walking distances, not reducing it. 
 

In other words, the MTA is doing everything possible to make it more difficult to use mass transit. Yes, they operate within a constrained budget, but they are not doing things that would be cost effective and require little money. They could reopen dozens of subway entrances closed in the 70s because of high crime and to reduce the number station agents needed. Those reasons are no longer valid to keep those entrances closed. They opened like six bathrooms. What about the hundreds of others that still remain closed. Paint is cheap, but virtually every station could use new paint on the ceiling. I was walking through the otherwise beautiful connection between the Sixth Avenue Line and the Flushing Line. The ceiling looked dirty and filthy. 
 

So why don’t they try harder to encourage mass transit use? Could it be that Transportation Alternatives which now has become a big MTA supporter funded by large corporations including Lyft which runs Citibike, actually have it in their best interests for less subway and bus usage? That is also in the MTA’s best interests, because fewer riders means a smaller deficit for them. 

[BrooklynBus]

13 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

And that’s exactly why legislation in NYC needs to change. 

Other then VERY FEW “safe streets” advocates I’ve heard from, the logistics of changing an entire street grid to appease less the 2% of the population is atrocious. NYCDOT can not pick and choose who listen to. If one Streetsblog says that 8th Avenue has to many cars, and literally every resident opposes a plan to do any change, why does NYCDOT basically go “yeah, screw you, we’re gonna do it anyway.”

Literally every recent NYCDOT project I’ve seen (except fixing the retaining wall on the SB HHP), is road diet this, road diet that, bike lane here, bike lane there, speed camera here, red camera here, while residents are literally screaming that they don’t want it.

And I understand that NYC is a pedestrian city, but NOT in every single street. I could understand imposing a 25 MPH limit on more pedestrian dense zones such as 42nd St, but a 25 MPH limit on Cross Bay Blvd, Atlantic Ave, Pelham Parkway, etc? Come on now.

Don’t forget about what they did to 34 Avenue in Jackson Heights which is vigorously opposed. It was a great alternative when Northern was too heavy. So they cut the street with in half with bike lanes and planters that is mostly unused. So it’s no longer an alternative to Northern. Then they installed a bus lane to make traffic move even slower and added a bike lane removing parking. Then they removed every other bus stop increasing walking without placing a new route along a neighboring avenue to reduce walking distances. They increased walking distances so some are now 3/4 of a mile from the closest bus stop. If they would have installed a new bus route on 31 Avenue instead and moved some of the buses from Northern over there, more would be closer to a bus route making bus travel more desirable, not less, and they wouldn’t have needed bus lanes on Northern. 
 

[BrooklynBus]

Forgot to mention that you should not have to pay a double fare for a local trip. Another reason not to use mass transit. A time based fare would make more sense. Fare capping doesn’t help most because few travel by mass transit five days a week and you need to travel six days to benefit. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I can’t really disagree with what you said here. The main reason people choose to drive over mass transit, even with the difficulties that DOT causes, is that it is still quicker for many trips, they are assured of getting a seat, they have gear to carry, using the system requires too much walking, and the system isn’t set up to handle many regional trips. 
 

And yes we do not need more cars on the road. So what is the answer to encourage more use of mass transit? Regional bus routes to make more trips available by mass transit. The MTA is not doing that. Provide more seats and more frequent service. The MTA’s newest cars provide no more seats than a city bus which has also been reduced in the past 50 years, The MTA constantly cuts service. Make it easier to carry gear on buses. The MTA has made that more difficult on buses by placing barriers above the wheel covers to prevent you from leaving your groceries there. They are reducing the number of bus stops to increase walking distances, not reducing it. 
 

In other words, the MTA is doing everything possible to make it more difficult to use mass transit. Yes, they operate within a constrained budget, but they are not doing things that would be cost effective and require little money. They could reopen dozens of subway entrances closed in the 70s because of high crime and to reduce the number station agents needed. Those reasons are no longer valid to keep those entrances closed. They opened like six bathrooms. What about the hundreds of others that still remain closed. Paint is cheap, but virtually every station could use new paint on the ceiling. I was walking through the otherwise beautiful connection between the Sixth Avenue Line and the Flushing Line. The ceiling looked dirty and filthy. 
 

So why don’t they try harder to encourage mass transit use? Could it be that Transportation Alternatives which now has become a big MTA supporter funded by large corporations including Lyft which runs Citibike, actually have it in their best interests for less subway and bus usage? That is also in the MTA’s best interests, because fewer riders means a smaller deficit for them. 

Sadly some of it is just them not knowing.  I met with the senior planners (NYCT &  Bus) a few years ago Downtown and the discussion about advertising came up.  I mentioned how Metro-North had converted me from an occasional rider into a monthly pass buyer and they said how did they do that? I said by advertising at the bus stops. They aggressively advertised at the bus shelters for several months.  I looked at the ads and said hmm... Interesting. Tried out the service a few times and eventually bought a pass even though I still had my express bus pass and just alternated between them.  They could run promotions and add service for certain things too.  I think they are far too focused on costs, and while I understand that they must have a balanced budget by State law, you can't have a healthy transit system if you are looking solely at costs and constantly trying to cut service.   

I imagine they must have some sort of advertising budget and if they do, it's probably very small for buses, but you have to spend money to generate money.  They've also taken away things like the Fun Pass. They should bring some of those programs back.  That Fun Pass I'm sure was used by tourists, but it could be good for people that only occasionally use public transit.  A lady in my group was talking about how when she goes to the City on weekends with her grandkids, it is actually cheaper for her to drive than to take public transit (express bus).  I think it's three of them so $40.50 minimum round trip unless she has a senior pass, but that just shows you some of the problems.  When it's cheaper to drive in, the choice is a very easy one.

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

And that’s exactly why legislation in NYC needs to change. 

Other then VERY FEW “safe streets” advocates I’ve heard from, the logistics of changing an entire street grid to appease less the 2% of the population is atrocious. NYCDOT can not pick and choose who listen to. If one Streetsblog says that 8th Avenue has to many cars, and literally every resident opposes a plan to do any change, why does NYCDOT basically go “yeah, screw you, we’re gonna do it anyway.”

Literally every recent NYCDOT project I’ve seen (except fixing the retaining wall on the SB HHP), is road diet this, road diet that, bike lane here, bike lane there, speed camera here, red camera here, while residents are literally screaming that they don’t want it.

And I understand that NYC is a pedestrian city, but NOT in every single street. I could understand imposing a 25 MPH limit on more pedestrian dense zones such as 42nd St, but a 25 MPH limit on Cross Bay Blvd, Atlantic Ave, Pelham Parkway, etc? Come on now.

Putting the safe streets advocates aside, the main issue is what I said earlier. Vehicular fatalities have continued to increase, and when you have people being killed by cars, action has to be taken.  Now the safe street advocates are all saying "See"? This is why we need this that and the other because too many people are being killed by cars and sure some of their complaining is BS.  It's not necessarily about DOT favoring such groups, but being forced to take action because despite efforts to mitigate the number of traffic deaths, they continue to increase.

[BrooklynBus]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sadly some of it is just them not knowing.  I met with the senior planners (NYCT &  Bus) a few years ago Downtown and the discussion about advertising came up.  I mentioned how Metro-North had converted me from an occasional rider into a monthly pass buyer and they said how did they do that? I said by advertising at the bus stops. They aggressively advertised at the bus shelters for several months.  I looked at the ads and said hmm... Interesting. Tried out the service a few times and eventually bought a pass even though I still had my express bus pass and just alternated between them.  They could run promotions and add service for certain things too.  I think they are far too focused on costs, and while I understand that they must have a balanced budget by State law, you can't have a healthy transit system if you are looking solely at costs and constantly trying to cut service.   

I imagine they must have some sort of advertising budget and if they do, it's probably very small for buses, but you have to spend money to generate money.  They've also taken away things like the Fun Pass. They should bring some of those programs back.  That Fun Pass I'm sure was used by tourists, but it could be good for people that only occasionally use public transit.  A lady in my group was talking about how when she goes to the City on weekends with her grandkids, it is actually cheaper for her to drive than to take public transit (express bus).  I think it's three of them so $40.50 minimum round trip unless she has a senior pass, but that just shows you some of the problems.  When it's cheaper to drive in, the choice is a very easy one.

Putting the safe streets advocates aside, the main issue is what I said earlier. Vehicular fatalities have continued to increase, and when you have people being killed by cars, action has to be taken.  Now the safe street advocates are all saying "See"? This is why we need this that and the other because too many people are being killed by cars and sure some of their complaining is BS.  It's not necessarily about DOT favoring such groups, but being forced to take action because despite efforts to mitigate the number of traffic deaths, they continue to increase.

Yes traffic deaths will continue to increase as long as the city encourages cycling to commute and a study has shown that protected bike lanes make cycling more dangerous, not safer. That is because 90 percent of fatalities occur when trucks, buses and other vehicles are turning and protected lanes decrease visibility. Another reason is the many who cycle or use scooters who do not wear reflective clothing so they can be seen. According to the city it is the vehicles responsibility to see you, although that may not be possible. Why aren’t cyclists who don’t wear reflective clothing at night not fined? Because the city never blames the cyclist for anything. It is always the driver’s fault. Yesterday while driving, I saw four very bright LEDs coming toward me. I thought perhaps it was a motorcycle. It didn’t look like a car. It turned out, it was someone on a skateboard. I was about to give him credit saying, that’s one smart guy. That was until I saw he was wearing black with black socks and black shoes and not even a reflector or light anywhere. 
 

So anyone from the front could see him coming, but he was totally invisible to someone from behind. He made himself a target to be hit. If the city wants to take action, there’s plenty they can do. For one thing, where no one is on a sidewalk, it is much safer to ride on the sidewalk than in the street, yet that is illegal. Accommodations should be made. 
 

Back to the MTA. Look at how much ad revenue was lost by the city buses not carrying interior ads like the subways for the past like 50 years. The MTA claims no one wants to advertise in a bus? BS. If that is true, there is a good reason. Costs too much or ad must remain in place for too long. Or you have to buy too many. The MTA just contracts it out and hasn’t looked at the terms in years. Even if they charged like $10 per ad, it’s money they wouldn’t have had otherwise. Plenty local businesses would advertise if terms were reasonable and cheap enough. Even when there were ads, it was always only large corporations buying them because the little guy could never afford to. Yet the MTA is always crying for money when they get revenue from at least 30 different sources including your electric bill. And why don’t they enforce fair evasion. I remember when the bus driver would through you off if you deposited 10 cents instead of the required 15 cents. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Yes traffic deaths will continue to increase as long as the city encourages cycling to commute and a study has shown that protected bike lanes make cycling more dangerous, not safer. That is because 90 percent of fatalities occur when trucks, buses and other vehicles are turning and protected lanes decrease visibility. Another reason is the many who cycle or use scooters who do not wear reflective clothing so they can be seen. According to the city it is the vehicles responsibility to see you, although that may not be possible. Why aren’t cyclists who don’t wear reflective clothing at night not fined? Because the city never blames the cyclist for anything. It is always the driver’s fault. Yesterday while driving, I saw four very bright LEDs coming toward me. I thought perhaps it was a motorcycle. It didn’t look like a car. It turned out, it was someone on a skateboard. I was about to give him credit saying, that’s one smart guy. That was until I saw he was wearing black with black socks and black shoes and not even a reflector or light anywhere. 
 

So anyone from the front could see him coming, but he was totally invisible to someone from behind. He made himself a target to be hit. If the city wants to take action, there’s plenty they can do. For one thing, where no one is on a sidewalk, it is much safer to ride on the sidewalk than in the street, yet that is illegal. Accommodations should be made. 
 

Back to the MTA. Look at how much ad revenue was lost by the city buses not carrying interior ads like the subways for the past like 50 years. The MTA claims no one wants to advertise in a bus? BS. If that is true, there is a good reason. Costs too much or ad must remain in place for too long. Or you have to buy too many. The MTA just contracts it out and hasn’t looked at the terms in years. Even if they charged like $10 per ad, it’s money they wouldn’t have had otherwise. Plenty local businesses would advertise if terms were reasonable and cheap enough. Even when there were ads, it was always only large corporations buying them because the little guy could never afford to. Yet the MTA is always crying for money when they get revenue from at least 30 different sources including your electric bill. And why don’t they enforce fair evasion. I remember when the bus driver would through you off if you deposited 10 cents instead of the required 15 cents. 

Sidewalks are for walking, not e-bikes and the like.  I was walking on the sidewalk the other day and this delivery guy on an e-bike is just riding along on the sidewalk like it's nothing, so I said to him, "So you're going to keep riding on the sidewalk?", but I said it in a way to imply that he was an idiot for doing so, as he should be riding that thing in the street in the bike lane.  He goes, "No" and mumbled something else, likely that he was just trying to get to the street at the corner, as he was coming from a store.   I've seen too many people almost run over on the sidewalk by bikes, so I don't support that at all.  What's worse about the e-bikes is you can't even hear them coming at the high speeds they travel at. In fact a few years ago I saw a guy almost go flying off of his bike (regular bike, not an e-bike). He was on the sidewalk riding and almost ran into someone walking. He banged into the guy and the guy sort of shoved him a bit in anger, as he hit the guy from behind and startled him (it was totally justified IMO).  Seeing this, I then told the guy on the bike (another delivery guy) that he should ride in the street (this was a side street and there were no vehicles coming).  He says "Oh you think what he did was right"?  I said yeah and then I gave him a few choice words that I won't repeat, as we got into a shouting match.  I don't understand the point of having bike lanes if people are still going to ride on the sidewalk.  It's ridiculous.

Regarding ads, I think I spoke with Sarah Meyer about them a while back, as the discussion about hiring more bus operators came up (and yes it's relevant to this thread because bus operator shortages is something that continues to plague bus service, even as these redesigns are completed - it's sort of the elephant in the room not being mentioned).  You can redesign these lines all you want, but you need bus operators to run the service and I have noticed that a number of lines in Queens are now suffering with cancellations of service that weren't before.  Anyway, we were talking about the ads and finding ways to better advertise that and other things.  Whenever they use digital screens for ads, the provider pays for them in exchange for getting ads played, but that sometimes means that  things don't get the time they should.  I know it isn't easy and they need that ad revenue, but they need to work on those things.  Since Sarah left, they haven't hired anyone permanently either.  That's something else I complained about on a call a few weeks ago. The Customer Service experience is lagging.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BrooklynBus]

28 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sidewalks are for walking, not e-bikes and the like.  I was walking on the sidewalk the other day and this delivery guy on an e-bike is just riding along on the sidewalk like it's nothing, so I said to him, "So you're going to keep riding on the sidewalk?", but I said it in a way to imply that he was an idiot for doing so, as he should be riding that thing in the street in the bike lane.  He goes, "No" and mumbled something else, likely that he was just trying to get to the street at the corner, as he was coming from a store.   I've seen too many people almost run over on the sidewalk by bikes, so I don't support that at all.  What's worse about the e-bikes is you can't even hear them coming at the high speeds they travel at. In fact a few years ago I saw a guy almost go flying off of his bike (regular bike, not an e-bike). He was on the sidewalk riding and almost ran into someone walking. He banged into the guy and the guy sort of shoved him a bit in anger, as he hit the guy from behind and startled him (it was totally justified IMO).  Seeing this, I then told the guy on the bike (another delivery guy) that he should ride in the street (this was a side street and there were no vehicles coming).  He says "Oh you think what he did was right"?  I said yeah and then I gave him a few choice words that I won't repeat, as we got into a shouting match.  I don't understand the point of having bike lanes if people are still going to ride on the sidewalk.  It's ridiculous.

Regarding ads, I think I spoke with Sarah Meyer about them a while back, as the discussion about hiring more bus operators came up (and yes it's relevant to this thread because bus operator shortages is something that continues to plague bus service, even as these redesigns are completed - it's sort of the elephant in the room not being mentioned).  You can redesign these lines all you want, but you need bus operators to run the service and I have noticed that a number of lines in Queens are now suffering with cancellations of service that weren't before.  Anyway, we were talking about the ads and finding ways to better advertise that and other things.  Whenever they use digital screens for ads, the provider pays for them in exchange for getting ads played, but that sometimes means that  things don't get the time they should.  I know it isn't easy and they need that ad revenue, but they need to work on those things.  Since Sarah left, they haven't hired anyone permanently either.  That's something else I complained about on a call a few weeks ago. The Customer Service experience is lagging.

I was talking about sidewalks when no pedestrians are present. Yes there are many sidewalks in outer areas that are seldom or never used by pedestrians. Example Flatbush Avenue on the way to the Marine Parkway Bridge. 
 

As far as ads, I was not talking about digital ads but paper ads which I guess was before your time. There was a time when each bus carried fifty ads in the  interior of the bus near the ceiling, like in the subway. Those generated revenue. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I was talking about sidewalks when no pedestrians are present. Yes there are many sidewalks in outer areas that are seldom or never used by pedestrians. Example Flatbush Avenue on the way to the Marine Parkway Bridge. 
 

As far as ads, I was not talking about digital ads but paper ads which I guess was before your time. There was a time when each bus carried fifty ads in the  interior of the bus near the ceiling, like in the subway. Those generated revenue. 

Paper ads still exist, and I do recall them, but the  has been moving towards more digital ads for obvious reasons. You can push more content that way.

[BrooklynBus]

17 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Paper ads still exist, and I do recall them, but the  has been moving towards more digital ads for obvious reasons. You can push more content that way.

I have not seen a paper ad in years. And I am not talking about an occasional ad but filling all 50 available spaces. I have also not seen any digital ads either. 

[IAlam]

 

19 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Interesting to note. IDK how I feel about them scaling back stuff, because who knows what proposals they'll keep and modify, and what routes they would revert back to the way it was (at this time it's pure speculation). Not everything needs to be reverted back, but we'll see what happens. 

Perhaps the Queens redesign team may be better on this front, but if the Bronx bus redesign is any indicator of what's to come, it'll leave a lot to be desired. There are some decent plans, primarily with some of the interborough connections, although there are other questionable proposals. It would absolutely suck if some of those get axed, but then have something like the B53 somehow get left untouched (technically a Brooklyn route and in the Brooklyn redesign as well, but it was first concocted as part of the Queens redesign). 

Based on the first 2 drafts it seems like the start with some good ideas and that's what we see with the major routes, but then the deeper they get into it the more it seems like the routes themselves are just filling in the dead space rather than actually being useful. It becomes very evident the further you look into NE Queens where some areas are over served and others have no useful services in their neighborhood.
 

21 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I was talking about the section between Hamilton and Atlantic southbound where traffic has not increased in 50 years and it is moving much faster because a bottleneck was removed. Northbound, on this same stretch, the opposite occurred. A lane was eliminated under the promenade, so now that section northbound is a parking lot all the time. So when you introduce a bottleneck, you increase congestion, and when you eliminate a bottleneck, you decrease congestion. This has been proven. End of discussion.

 

As far as the other things you talk about that more are using the BQE because they are shifting from mass transit, I doubt that is true. And as I explained adding lanes does not always induce vehicular usage. It can reduce congestion. NYC may be the most congested in the country, but it is NYCDOT policy that is causing that: eliminating parking and traffic lanes, out of sync signals, artificially low speed limits, less green time, unnecessary traffic channelization, turn restrictions that makes you go a half mile or more out of your way, unnecessary bus lanes or in effect when they are not necessary, etc. 

13 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

So now you are complaining too many cars are using HOV lanes? I thought car pooling was a good idea that we wanted to encourage? Maybe they are not using express buses is because they are so expensive or they don’t get a seat? It should be no more than twice the local fare with further discounts for regular commuters, and allow for a third transfer. Everyone should be guaranteed a seat for a premium fare. 

Also, the Van Wyck has had construction and reduced speeds for like ten years and probably another ten years. Totally ridiculous. Slow speed limits lower road capacity and that contributes to congestion. 

You are exactly correct. 

There's way too much you've said to directly quote and address everything. But too add my 2 cents the issue with NYC traffic stems down to chokepoints that cannot really ever be expanded. Adding a lane in the BQE won't help anything because the traffic stems from the multiple late of traffic trying to squeeze down into 1-2 lanes for the East river crossings. You can't expect adding a lane on the BQE to instantly rectify the capacity issues on the East River crossings. What you can expect is that the cars that were avoiding the BQE before now see that there's more space and since local streets are so slow and the MTA is so bad that it's more advantageous to drive. Before you know it there was just as much congestion as there was before. There is a reason in the margining traffic flows so much better in Manhattan than in the evening. In the morning traffic is limited coming in, but in the evening all the traffic builds up leading into the crossings. Most of the traffic I see downtown in the afternoon/evening comes from people coming from different parts of the island and then trying to squeeze into a 2 lane bridge/tunnel. If you don't believe it you can always take a look further west in a state like Texas and California with mega highways, far less people per sq mile yet still dealing with massive congestion like New York. 

At a certain point you do realize when you reduce the throughput of how many cars can go through an area you also reduce how many cars there are? Many people complain about how removing a lane on the Brooklyn Bridge cause more congestion, but how I see it that reduces the number of cars per hour that can actually enter Manhattan and creates a physical barrier to the number of cars that can get into the city. Same thing with outdoor dining assuming the space is being used, I know there's an issue with some spaces beign abandoned but that's a separate topic that should probably warrant it's own thread. Those parking spaces means there's less space for cars that don't need to be there in the first place. Vehicles that need to be there like service vehicles and trucks will still go because they have to, but a person in their own car will be dissuaded from going somewhere where they won't be able to park. Lastly there are other things we could do to help with the parking issue, like resident only street parking that many other cities do, more short term pick up and drop off areas for cars/taxi's/rideshares, and few parking options from out of towners. I should not see Florida and Georgia plates in the free parking in my neighborhood on a daily basis, if they come from out of town in a car they can also pay for that space at a garage, space is at a premium here and there's no reason they should get that for free/cheap. If they can afford take up our limited space they can also afford to pay a premium for it too. 

When it comes to bike lanes, as a pedestrian I hate having bikes and e-scooters on the sidewalk, I got hit by an e-scooter once while walking in a busy area and ended up loosing my earbuds. I also know many car drivers in the city hate bikers as well. So for the argument of giving bikers their own lane to me seems like a no brainer. As both a pedestrian and motorist I want to deal with bikes and e-scooters as little as possible, so when they're in their own lane they're not trying to zigzag in front of me. So many people forget when there is no bike lane the bikes are supposed to go on the street. Motorist want the bikes and pedestrians to shares the least amount of space possible disregarding the fact the 3 lanes width of sidewalks and bike lanes can push far more people through than 3 lanes of car traffic can. For for the argument of underutilized bike lanes the bike lanes can't be useful if it only exists in a small handful of streets. You need a network similar to our road or sidewalk network to actually get people to bike more. There's no incentive for me to bike between A and B if there's no bike path between A and B. A bike lane might not get much use now but as the lanes grow so do the trip opportunities. One big congestion generator that doesn't get much attention is food delivery. I see it day after day in Queens where delivery drivers park in bus stops and bus lanes and clog up streets to pick up and drop off food. But in Manhattan I see a lot more delivery bikes, the difference between where I am and Manhattan is the fact Manhattan as a lot more bike infrastructure while my area barely has anything. 

Tying this back into the actual topic. I've seen great improvements in the traffic volume in Flushing since the bus lanes and bus way has been instituted. When cars are actually following the rules. When I was a kid I remember constantly being able to outwalk the Q44 going into Flushing. Now days it's almost always faster than walking and on the worst days like weekends and holidays I can keep up with it at best. That's a huge improvement from what traffic was like when I was a kid and now driving on Main St is much more tolerable now. What I do agree with you is how there isn't any good regional connections/fare structure. We should have better connections between, state and county boarders and that's probably another good thread. But when people says it's not there so they shrug it off so they drive will do little to nothing to help that. There one thing I notice about people who drive here and that's they all recognize there's not enough space for all the cars here. Yet some think that there's no space so it's a good idea to look for another way, while others have this dangerous idea that they need more space for cars. Money is already hard enough to get as is with our current political system, but it's hard enough to get money for a infrastructure project as is let alone multiple. Someone advocating for a widening of a highway is probably not advocating or caring about building a new subway line or adding more bus service, which has a greater impact per dollar than a new lane does. 

Looking at the redesign I really hope the DOT is more aggressive in adding and enforcing more bus lanes in the city because there is no way a redesign will be successful if cars are stuck in the same traffic with cars.