Do you think some limited bus routes are useless?

[checkmatechamp13]

The (S57) doesn't get many people even without the (S67). As for your idea I don't know about that because then people who are coming from Travis would not have any service during rush hour.

 

Couldn't the (S92)s that end in Travis turn around as (S62)s?

I saw a few (S67)s along Post Avenue in Port Richmond in the PM rush and they were SRO. I don't know what the situation is now, though.

[S78 via Hylan]

Couldn't the (S92)s that end in Travis turn around as (S62)s?

I saw a few (S67)s along Post Avenue in Port Richmond in the PM rush and they were SRO. I don't know what the situation is now, though.

 

Some of the (S92) turn into (S62)'s at Travis, but not all of them because during rush hour, every other (S62) starts at CSI.

[S78 via Hylan]

I think the (S92) could be canned (maybe) because I've noticed that since the (S93) has come into service, more people are jumping to that route since it goes to Bay Ridge. Plus 3 limiteds on Victory Blvd is a little too much. The (S62) would just have 8-10 minute headways during the AM rush hour and 12 minutes during the PM rush hour like it already does have.

 

 

 

How's how I would have it:

 

Rush hours:

For limited service use: (S91), (S93)

 

For local service, use: (S62), (S66)

[checkmatechamp13]

I've seen some pretty crowded (S62)/(S92) buses during rush hour, but the crowding tends to go down as they go further west.

 

Actually, I had a whole idea for restructuring the Victory Blvd routes to reduce duplication:

 

Send the (S61) up Brielle Avenue and Manor Road to terminate at Broadway/Richmond Terrace. (The (S91) designation would be eliminated)

Send the (S54) up Bradley Avenue and Jewett Avenue to terminate at Port Richmond Avenue/Richmond Terrace

Terminate the (S66) at either Renwick Avenue/Milford Drive, Schmidts Lane/Manor Road, or Bradley Avenue/South Gannon Avenue

 

The (S62)/(S92)/(S93) would run frequently on Victory Blvd for former (S61)/(S91) customers. The (S62)/(S92) would be operated with articulated buses to prevent the from being overcrowded, and the savings would be reinvested either in expanding service elsewhere in Staten Island ((S40)/(S90) extension to Newark Airport, new West Shore bus line, or (S55) extension to Perth Amboy station), or in the routes involved ((running the (S54) and (S66) on weekends, extending the (S93) to Mariners' Harbor, the West Shore Plaza, or Port Richmond, or running more frequent service on the lines involved)

[S78 via Hylan]

I've seen some pretty crowded (S62)/(S92) buses during rush hour, but the crowding tends to go down as they go further west.

 

Actually, I had a whole idea for restructuring the Victory Blvd routes to reduce duplication:

 

Send the (S61) up Brielle Avenue and Manor Road to terminate at Broadway/Richmond Terrace. (The (S91) designation would be eliminated)

Send the (S54) up Bradley Avenue and Jewett Avenue to terminate at Port Richmond Avenue/Richmond Terrace

Terminate the (S66) at either Renwick Avenue/Milford Drive, Schmidts Lane/Manor Road, or Bradley Avenue/South Gannon Avenue

 

The (S62)/(S92)/(S93) would run frequently on Victory Blvd for former (S61)/(S91) customers. The (S62)/(S92) would be operated with articulated buses to prevent the from being overcrowded, and the savings would be reinvested either in expanding service elsewhere in Staten Island ((S40)/(S90) extension to Newark Airport, new West Shore bus line, or (S55) extension to Perth Amboy station), or in the routes involved ((running the (S54) and (S66) on weekends, extending the (S93) to Mariners' Harbor, the West Shore Plaza, or Port Richmond, or running more frequent service on the lines involved)

 

I think terminating the (S66) at Renwick Av/Milford Dr would be good because students at Michael J. Petredies High School would have a direct bus to the ferry.

[checkmatechamp13]

The funny thing is that, if the (S66) were routed this way, it would barely resemble the old (S66).

 

The routing to Bradley Avenue would be as follows:

 

WB: Bay Street-Victory Blvd-Louis Street-Howard Avenue-Arlo Road-Stratford Avenue-Howard Avenue-Clove Road-Little Clove Road-Victory Blvd-Slosson Avenue-North Gannon Avenue-Bradley Avenue

 

EB: South Gannon Avenue-Manor Road-Schmidts Lane-Slosson Avenue-Victory Blvd-Little Clove Road-Renwick Avenue-Milford Drive-Clove Road-Howard Avenue-Louis Street-Victory Blvd-Bay Street.

 

This would help serve some former (S61) customers on Bradley Avenue (they would only be served by the (S54)/(S57)), as well as the Todt Hill Houses on Manor Road, as well as Petrides when it dips back down to Milford Drive.

 

Come to think about it, if it were extended to Bradley Avenue, it would only be a 5 minute drive to the College of Staten Island, and it would be able to serve everybody along Gannon Avenue, and indirectly serve some former (S61) customers in Willowbrook. I don't know if this would compete too much with the (S62) and X10, though.

[R32 3348]

M2LTD during the weekends. It has like 10 people on it at most.

I've always wondered why the M2 is limited compared to the longer M3 (and it's going to be even longer come July) It sounds flawed, at least on paper.

 

Looking at the bus patterns, I agree. Why do the (M1), (M2) and (M4) all have limited service while only one of those routes is all-Limited? If the (M3) can do just fine without a limited, then so can the (M2) considering that it's shorter. IMO, the (M2) and (M3) should be all local, while the (M1) would provide weekday limited service along with local runs (just like it is now). The (M4) would be all Limited since it's the longest route out of the bunch right now (so is the (M5) but that already has a limited) and all-Limited service would speed up the runs.

I think the best thing to do is this. We often talk about what shouldn't be a limited and what should. How about this. How about we reduce the number of local bus stops (instead of 1 or 2 every block) and make it into 2-4 or 3-4, 3-5 every block (in certain situations like in the outer bouroughs). Obviously there are pros and cons to this but to me its pathetic when in manhattan for example, you can have for on madison ave (this is theoretical) a bus stop at 34, 36, 38, 40 and 42 St (or something along those lines) when it can just be 34 st, 38 st and 42 st as the stops.

I agree 100%. This would cut down on the necessity of Limited runs, having bus stops spaced apart every 4 blocks (or every 3 in some cases, if some stops are heavily used). That would mean that the farthest you could be from a bus stop would be 2 blocks, which is a very reasonable walk. Not to mention it would speed up every single bus route.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

I would say the S84 because:

 

-Although it does get sometimes crowded, but only until around Broad St in Stapleton. Since I've been on it a few times, it gets empty pretty quickly and stays almost empty for most of the route.

 

-Plus it is not very frequent. I think the S74 was better until the 84 came because some S74 trips were reduced in order to create room and it hasn't really worked.

 

My opinions are the same for the S81 and S86.

 

What I think should happen for the S51 and S76 at the ferry is that they should schedule the regular trip that connects with the ferry and another one before the next boat. For example, instead of having a S51 and S81. leave the ferry at 5:10, they should have a S51 trip leave at 5:12 and a 5:24, so people who are waiting at further stops ahead like Bay Street and Victory Blvd could get some seats.

 

-This would also reduce congestion when the buses leave the St. George Terminal.

 

Once again, I think the following limiteds are not needed very much: S81, S84, S86, S92

 

 

 

 

Any other ideas?

 

Funny you should mention the (s84) LTD.

 

I was the (84)'s first passenger.

[Fresh Pond]

After staying out in & out of Queens Village this past month, I can safely say the Q36 LTD is pretty useless, if not the most museless one in the city. It serves LTD stops ONLY on Hillside (and its only like 6 stops) but makes all stops on Jamaica Av & 212 St/Pl. They could've extended the LTD to Jamaica & Springfield at the QV LIRR station and make all stops from there. During the a.m rush, the LTD is empty half the time (I admit its crowded sometimes) but the real action is on Jamaica. Most people take the LTD in the p.m rush because it makes limited stops on Hillside so it gives people the mentality that the limited is quicker.

[S78 via Hylan]

Since the (S76) only operates on weekdays now, I wonder why does it's limited counterpart the (S86) still exist?

[EE Broadway Local]

The S86 (S86) operates only weekday afternoons from Saint George beginning at 4pm? :confused: That doesn't seem to make sense unless Oakwood Beach-bound traffic is heavier afternoon rush than Saint George-bound traffic is morning rush or unless there is a reason why the S76 (S76) buses that leave a minute later terminate at Richmond Road and Narrows Road South in the afternoons.

Since the (S76) only operates on weekdays now, I wonder why does it's limited counterpart the (S86) still exist?

[S78 via Hylan]

When the (S86) first began operating, it used to run from 4:50 to 10PM, but has since been cut to 6:45 PM. The (S76) would be fine with 12 miunte headways during the evening rush hour.

[Q43LTD]

Bx36: LTD is a huge waste to me and there are at least 3 other routes that come to mind in the Bronx that need LTD service more. 1st off the several times I've used it I've gotten bypassed by locals. The Bx36 was never a route that crawled, the only place it does crawl is 181 because they refuse to change the traffic pattern. The buses still bunch, you'll see 2 locals and 2 LTDs in a line basically. I'd rather see LTD service on the Bx10 (I have a logical explanation behind this one), Bx19 and Bx28 especially the latter because that bs Bx28/38 is going to make things so much worse

 

Q36/Q43: To begin with I hate all the Hillside Avenue routes but I have to say these 2 are my least favorite. When one lives in deep East Queens getting to the , or is a huge pain. The LTD service on the Q36 isn't worth discussing why its a waste. But the Q43 has potential, the main issues are that it only runs between Springfield & 179 when it should at least go to 165 st and the fact that everyone who off-peak would simply get on the Q1/2/3/76/77 will let those buses go by, wait for the 43 then have to get off to x-fer anyway which slows it down a lot.

What I would do is expand the LTD hours on the (Q43) and extend the (Q1) to Jamaica LIRR

[checkmatechamp13]

The S86 (S86) operates only weekday afternoons from Saint George beginning at 4pm? :confused: That doesn't seem to make sense unless Oakwood Beach-bound traffic is heavier afternoon rush than Saint George-bound traffic is morning rush or unless there is a reason why the S76 (S76) buses that leave a minute later terminate at Richmond Road and Narrows Road South in the afternoons.

 

Me and my brother were thinking the same thing. We figured that their logic might be that it wouldn't make sense to include the S86 in the 2010 service reductions because people would act like it was another reduction, when, in reality, it is a redistribution of riders.

 

As far as why there is only PM rush hour service, I would have to say it is because of commuting patterns-in the morning, more people are in a rush and take the express bus to reach Manhattan, but in the afternoon, people have more time and are willing to spend the extra time on the ferry to save $3.25.

 

If you notice, the 3 routes that run PM-only service run through neighborhoods with frequent express service.

[NX Express]

Why are the SI LTD routes not named the same as their local counterparts?

e.g. S74 and S84 LTD

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ask the that question.

 

 

Clearly you guys do not ride any of these lines regularly. I ride the M2 LTD regularly and it fills up quite quickly, hence why it runs frequently. My boss and her husband live on Madison in the 70s and they both use it to get to and from work on 5th in the 40s. You also have a lot of elderly people that use it that aren't so mobile and thus can't take the subway, not to mention that a lot of people are traveling along 5th and Madison Avenue and the subway if anything would be out of the way for them. Just because people are elderly or not as mobile doesn't mean that they should be excluded from having a quick trip. Having the limited stop service on Madison & 5th saves a ton of time, as the locals often crawl. The bus has always been seen historically as being SLOW, and anywhere that limited stop service can be added to speed up commutes should be looked at because the current subway system is reaching its full capacity on some lines like the 4 5 6 to accomodate the growing population. As far as Staten Island Limited Stops goes, when do you people ever think that Staten Island should get MORE service of anything??? It really pisses me how you guys can sit here at talk about how our service should be reduced for limited stops when we have far longer than you guys do in most cases. You ride our buses a few times and then think that you're experts on what we DON'T need. Try living here on Staten Island and then come back and tell me what should be cut.

[checkmatechamp13]

Some of the posters who talked about which limited-stop routes should be eliminated are actually from Staten Island.

[Rell]

I'm agreeing with the Bx19 LTD opposed to the Bx36 - because the 36 wasn't necessarily slow enough, the 19 needs to seriously gain some assistance.

 

A quick idea of stops would be ;

 

Botanical Garden [ Bronx Park ]

180 St - Bx9 Bx36

174 St/Boston Rd - Bx21

Westchester Av - Bx4 Bx5 Bx11 Bx27 Bx35

Hunts Point Av/163 St - Bx5 Bx6

either 156 St or Longwood Av

149 St/Prospect Av - Bx17

St. Anns Av - Bx17

Third Av - Bx2 Bx4 Bx15 Bx21 Bx41 Bx55

Grand Concourse - Bx1 Bx2

Malcolm X Blvd (Lenox Av) - M1 M7 M102

St. Nicholas Av - ( M3

Broadway - M4 M5

Riverbank State Park - M11

 

or something like that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Careful -- the M1 is only Limited during Rush Hour, and the same with with M4. Those are not Limited buses by any means.

 

What happens is that if you catch an M1 in Midtown going downtown, you can only get a Limited every ten-fifteen minutes from 7:45-9. Then the next Limited isn't until quarter of five for uptown. Basically, it's a very specific Rush Hour-Limited. No Limited during most of the day, and only for a very general work schedule afterwards (no Limited after 6:30 uptown), which is why I catch the M2 when I commute back (though I'm not in Midtown, I should point out).

 

Point is, for some of the key bus lines in Manhattan, you need Limited service all-day. Period. You cut, and things don't work as well at all. If I need to go somewhere, the Limited is an alternative to the local train. That's a good option to have.

 

You also can't make the M4 all Limited. For one, it only goes until 34th Street downtown, which unless you keep the M5 Limited, again means you've got no Limited bus on 5th ave. below 42nd street. There're a lot of people down there. But most importantly, the M4 is basically all alone on the Washington Heights-Cloisters run, since the M5 stops going uptown early. You cut stops, and transportation gets even harder for those living up in Washington Heights. You'd have to make service Limited and Local (like the M15 with the SBS) if you really wanted to serve up there.

 

Frankly, the current setup is not too shabby. The only odd thing is that during midday from 110th down, you have three local buses all going the same route, and from 34th down the M3 and M1 do the same thing. The M1 was better suited to Park Avenue, but no use crying over it now.

 

--

 

And lastly, not directed at Mr. R32 3348, but this really annoys me for some reason: why do people not understand that you CANNOT CUT THE M2 LIMITED ON WEEKENDS?

 

For god's sake, you're telling me if you're in Manhattan on a Sunday you can't catch a Limited bus ANYWHERE west of Lex? That's pitiful bus service if you ask me. You can cut and cut, but you gotta stop when the bus becomes obsolete to the subway.

 

 

Finally someone who GETS IT!!! These guys in here aren't any better than the MTA when it comes to people getting around on the weekends. People do actually work and have lives on the weekends and should be able to get around quickly, just as they can during the week in the city. For some reason the MTA does their best to make service as slow and unreliable as possible during the weekend in a city busling with tourists and folks who rely heavily on PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. These same people pushing for these cuts don't take any of these routes I bet, or don't care about their time traveling around.

[Rell]

Why are the SI LTD routes not named the same as their local counterparts?

e.g. S74 and S84 LTD

 

The Q44LTD and the Q20 (I don't think it's 20, but it's a number around that) do the same thing, But in the Queens care, the LTD goes to the Bronx Zoo via Cross Bx Expwy, Maybe the SI LTDs do something similar.

[checkmatechamp13]

It is the Q20A and Q20B.

 

As far as the Staten Island routes go, I can't see the logic either-except for the S89 and S93, all of the limited-stop routes run in the typical local/limited-stop configuration.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Some of the posters who talked about which limited-stop routes should be eliminated are actually from Staten Island.

 

 

@checkmatechamp,

 

I would really like to know if you actually use public transportation on Staten Island, because I can't understand how in the world you could advocate for reduction of service in the borough with the least amount of service?? We have the highest tolls in the nation and see the least amount of service in return for these high tolls. The fact of the matter is the MTA should be doing more to advocate people using public transportation more and using their cars less. People like you pushing for reduced service are just pushing more people into their cars, especially here on Staten Island.

[checkmatechamp13]

Actually, I do use public transportation daily on Staten Island. On my busiest day of the week, I take 5 trips using public transportation:

 

S44/S89 to the S46/S96 to get to school (or take the S59 and walk)

S46 from school to work

S46 to the S53 from work to my after school activity

S48/S98 from my after school activity to the supermarket

Either walk or take the S48 to Richmond Avenue for the S44/S59/S89/S94 to get home.

 

I'm sick and tired of this "forgotten borough" attitude on Staten Island. I'm able to manage just fine on public transportation, and everybody acts like it is impossible. Staten Island has the routes with the highest cost per passenger in the city, and yet people complain that they are being shortchanged.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Some of the posters who talked about which limited-stop routes should be eliminated are actually from Staten Island.

 

Actually, I do use public transportation daily on Staten Island. On my busiest day of the week, I take 5 trips using public transportation:

 

S44/S89 to the S46/S96 to get to school (or take the S59 and walk)

S46 from school to work

S46 to the S53 from work to my after school activity

S48/S98 from my after school activity to the supermarket

Either walk or take the S48 to Richmond Avenue for the S44/S59/S89/S94 to get home.

 

I'm sick and tired of this "forgotten borough" attitude on Staten Island. I'm able to manage just fine on public transportation, and everybody acts like it is impossible. Staten Island has the routes with the highest cost per passenger in the city, and yet people complain that they are being shortchanged.

 

I'm sure we have the highest cost per passenger adue to the fact that we have the highest amount of express bus service, so that should be no surprise. And yes the service here is pathetic, particularly because even when you try to schedule things you can't because the service is so unreliable. You think service is so great because you ride on lines that have pretty decent service in terms of frequency, especially the S53 and S46, with the S53 being the most utilized line on the island, but try living on the South Shore where walking really isn't an option, or even parts of the North Shore with a line like the S54, which is scheduled every 30 minutes usually but often times is a no show, so the wait is really an hour or even longer for a bus, not including the actual ride. You are assuming that service isn't that bad based solely on your commute. You should travel around on the island more and you would see just how great our service is. We have no subway and three Metrocard vending machines TOTAL, all located at the SI Ferry Terminal. If you think three vending machines is great for a borough of 500,000 people then clearly you are missing the big picture. Service needs to be better streamlined with more dispatchers put on lines to ensure that buses come as scheduled, especially if you're going to cut back on so many lines.