Extension of the SIR or the NYC Subway to Brooklyn or Manhattan

[SIR North Shore]

The Staten Island Railway stopped being FRA governed a few years ago actually. (The most recent GOH to the R44s on the SIR removed most of the FRA mandated changes.) There's no physical connection between the SIR or North Shore Line and mainline trackage. And CSX doesn't own the North Shore Line, it was ConRail back in the 1990s but now it's simply abandoned.

[Grand Concourse]

At this point, these are just fantasy maps. In an ideal world, they would be built, but, especally in this economic climate, they are just distant dreams.

 

As far as the subway service, if you think about it, how much extra money would it really cost to extend it to the Church Avenue station to connect with the , as opposed to leaving it at 59th Street? The commuter rail line is supposed to appease customers used to express bus service who wouldn't want to switch to the subway.

 

I do wished they allowed cars on the boats again. Obviously a security nightmare, but at least it could keep some cars out of Brooklyn. Have the car owners pay via fares for the security detail.

 

As Nx stated about the SAS: it is basically a pita to get done and that is needed more than SI's needs. Sad, but true.

 

As for the express buses. I'd have it like this: People would have to take the bus to the SIR. The SIR spur would take them to Brooklyn where they can continue on via express buses [at a 'hub'] or the subway. either way the idea is to limit the overall use of buses by having the train shuttle people to Brooklyn.

 

Routes like the X1, X17, etc. [will remain as is] can benefit by having some extra buses to use since I've read from sites like this of how crowded they are.

[Grand Concourse]

At a time when even New Jersey is desperate to build a connection to New York City and doesn't have the money to do it?

 

You got me there. But distance wise, a connection to NJ would be better than a 5mi tunnel under the river to connect two boroughs together. Not only that but SI isn't even as densely populated as Queens or Brooklyn are.

 

If anything Queens and Brooklyn could use some more expansion than SI does.

[CenSin]

You got me there. But distance wise, a connection to NJ would be better than a 5mi tunnel under the river to connect two boroughs together. Not only that but SI isn't even as densely populated as Queens or Brooklyn are.

 

If anything Queens and Brooklyn could use some more expansion than SI does.

The argument that an underpopulated and underdeveloped borough is undeserving of better service just perpetuates the fact that the borough will be underpopulated and underdeveloped.

[checkmatechamp13]

I do wished they allowed cars on the boats again. Obviously a security nightmare, but at least it could keep some cars out of Brooklyn. Have the car owners pay via fares for the security detail.

 

As Nx stated about the SAS: it is basically a pita to get done and that is needed more than SI's needs. Sad, but true.

 

As for the express buses. I'd have it like this: People would have to take the bus to the SIR. The SIR spur would take them to Brooklyn where they can continue on via express buses [at a 'hub'] or the subway. either way the idea is to limit the overall use of buses by having the train shuttle people to Brooklyn.

 

Routes like the X1, X17, etc. [will remain as is] can benefit by having some extra buses to use since I've read from sites like this of how crowded they are.

 

As far as local expansion, the North Shore Rail Line has a capital cost of about $16,000 per daily passenger served ($400 million/15,000 daily riders), whereas the SAS costs $17 billion for about 600,000 daily riders, or about $28,000 per daily passenger served, so there definitely a logic to expansion in SI.

 

As far as expansion to Brooklyn, I don't know how much that would cost, but there is a lot of ridership potential (judging by how well-utilized some of the express routes are, relative to other routes), and perhaps the direct connection to the rest of the city will be enough to attract people to settle in SI.

[2Line1291]

"Staten Island needs N.J. tunnel money"

 

If New Jersey doesn't want the Access to the Region's Core (ARC) tunnel, the multibillion-dollar transit project that Gov. Chris Christie just said he's likely to cancel, I say give it to Staten Island.

 

I mean at the very least, give Staten Island the equivalent amount of money for transit improvements - and quite possibly build an actual tunnel between the borough and the rest of the city.

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/10/14/2010-10-14_staten_island_needs_nj_tunnel_money_the_borough_plagued_by_traffic_deserves_bett.html#ixzz14NHxGBlY

[Gotham Bus Co]

The feds will put the kybosh on this in two seconds.

 

So will Staten Islanders. They decided 60 years ago that they didn't want the subway, so the subway went on without them.

[CenSin]

So will Staten Islanders. They decided 60 years ago that they didn't want the subway, so the subway went on without them.

Wasn't Staten Island becoming a part of New York instead of the nearby New Jersey because of promised subway service and other transportation advantages?

[T to Dyre Avenue]

That can't be why. Staten Island became part of NYC in 1898. New York didn't even have subway service back then. The original IRT subway line was under construction at the time.

 

But SI is a part of NYC and just because a few short-sighted politicians refused subway service decades ago, doesn't mean Staten Islanders of today should have to pay for the mistakes their forebears made. At the very least, SI should have a rail connection to Brooklyn and additional rail service on the island itself.

[Bill from Maspeth]

So will Staten Islanders. They decided 60 years ago that they didn't want the subway, so the subway went on without them.

Did they also decide at that time they didn't want a bridge coming over from Brooklyn too?

 

It seems to me that SI was a rather exclusive area before 1964. That bridge is what caused the population explosion.

[CenSin]

That can't be why. Staten Island became part of NYC in 1898. New York didn't even have subway service back then. The original IRT subway line was under construction at the time.

 

But SI is a part of NYC and just because a few short-sighted politicians refused subway service decades ago, doesn't mean Staten Islanders of today should have to pay for the mistakes their forebears made. At the very least, SI should have a rail connection to Brooklyn and additional rail service on the island itself.

This was quoted from http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/11/22/building-a-subway-to-staten-island-with-arc-dollars/:

“In 1898, when the boroughs voted to consolidate,” Savino said this weekend, “Staten Island voted overwhelmingly to become part of New York City on the basis of two promises, a municipal ferry and subway service. After seven years we got ferry service, but 112 years later we are still waiting on the subway. Staten Island is part of New York City, with over half a million people. It is past time we have similar transportation alternatives that other boroughs have.”

[T to Dyre Avenue]

This was quoted from http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/11/22/building-a-subway-to-staten-island-with-arc-dollars/:

All the more reason for Staten Island to be connected to the rest of the city by rail.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[TheArr]

So will Staten Islanders. They decided 60 years ago that they didn't want the subway, so the subway went on without them.

 

I don't know about how the more affluent people might feel about a subway link to SI (or an SIR link to manhattan or brooklyn), but the general consensus amongst the middle class here is that it would be very nice. The SI ferry takes about 25 minutes to traverse 5 miles of NY bay, which ends up being a lousy 12 mph. As for going to brooklyn, the current bus routes that go to brooklyn are very crowded and buses are very slow compared to trains.

[Anthony Brancato]

The R line is obviously the most plausible one to be extended to Staten Island - and the first stop on the Island is likewise obvious: The South Beach Park And Ride at Fr. Capodanno Blvd. and Sand Lane.

 

I've heard various things about the feasibility of building a third level of the V-N Bridge underneath the two that presently exist, along which the train could run; some claim this would run into the same height problem as that of the Bayonne Bridge. If this be so, a tunnel would presumably have to be constructed instead.

 

Another major virtue of the South Beach Park And Ride stop - besides this promising to be a high-use location - is that it could be opened first, while everybody argues where the line should go from there; I'd opt for sending it through Fort Wadsworth and thence along the shoreline to link up with the SIR at Clifton (it need not be underground throughout north of Fort Wadsworth, although the South Beach stop likely would be, giving the Island its first true "subway" station). In that case, if the North Shore line is restored, the trains could actually originate at Howland Hook on the Staten Island side (or for that matter, even Cranford Junction!), feeding into the existing SIR via the Ball Park spur, with a likely terminus/transfer point at 36th St/4th Ave in Brooklyn, the line carrying its own identifying letter - possibly "P" as this has never been used by the MTA.

[CenSin]

the line carrying its own identifying letter - possibly "P" as this has never been used by the MTA.

A lot of people are going to take issue with this…

[Gorgor]

No... just no.

 

SIR should not be extended to New York.

[Roadcruiser1]

We have had discuss this a million times on these forums. Although Staten Island would fit the requirements for mass transit not all of them wants it, and it would just be a plan of futility. Why plan on an extension to Staten Island when even if it was under construction would never be done in our lifetimes. The Second Avenue Subway proves to be a good example.

[Roadcruiser1]

Oh yeah, and one more thing if there is a subway extension to Staten Island it won't be the . It's already darn slow so extending it to Staten Island would make it slower. The best option here is to create a Nassau Street service that would run from Chambers Street to somewhere in Staten Island. People that want express service would transfer at 59th Street.

[CenSin]

Oh yeah, and one more thing if there is a subway extension to Staten Island it won't be the . It's already darn slow so extending it to Staten Island would make it slower. The best option here is to create a Nassau Street service that would run from Chambers Street to somewhere in Staten Island. People that want express service would transfer at 59th Street.

Oh God… I foresaw it before reading your second post that the likeness of the <R> would somehow show up.

[GojiMet86]

I think we should start refering to the subway lines (Bay Ridge) instead of the route . Makes more sense to talk about extending the actual, physical line as opposed to a route.

[CenSin]

I think we should start refering to the subway lines (Bay Ridge) instead of the route . Makes more sense to talk about extending the actual, physical line as opposed to a route.

So in order of likeliness, a subway to Staten Island could be connected to:

1. 4 Avenue line south of 59 Street (one of the most promoted and feasible candidates)

2. 7 Avenue line south of South Ferry (which we know to be an engineering challenge, but was floated as an idea anyway by the vocal minority)

3. Broadway line south of Whitehall Street (apparently built to be extended somewhere)

4. Nassau Street line south of Broad Street (with stub tracks currently used to turning trains)

5. Second Avenue line south of Hanover Square (will probably be more likely when Second Avenue becomes a full line)

 

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't know about how the more affluent people might feel about a subway link to SI (or an SIR link to manhattan or brooklyn), but the general consensus amongst the middle class here is that it would be very nice. The SI ferry takes about 25 minutes to traverse 5 miles of NY bay, which ends up being a lousy 12 mph. As for going to brooklyn, the current bus routes that go to brooklyn are very crowded and buses are very slow compared to trains.

 

The very affluent people live in more isolated areas (Todt Hill, Grymes Hill, Emerson Hill), or far enough from Manhattan that the big population expansion wouldn't go into their neighborhoods (parts of the South Shore)

 

So in order of likeliness, a subway to Staten Island could be connected to:

1. 4 Avenue line south of 59 Street (one of the most promoted and feasible candidates)

2. 7 Avenue line south of South Ferry (which we know to be an engineering challenge, but was floated as an idea anyway by the vocal minority)

3. Broadway line south of Whitehall Street (apparently built to be extended somewhere)

4. Nassau Street line south of Broad Street (with stub tracks currently used to turning trains)

5. Second Avenue line south of Hanover Square (will probably be more likely when Second Avenue becomes a full line)

 

 

What about Church Avenue on the ? It can go down the Sea Beach Line and 14th Avenue, and wouldn't have the capacity issues of the 4th Avenue Line (though that would probably be at the bottom of your list)

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Oh yeah, and one more thing if there is a subway extension to Staten Island it won't be the . It's already darn slow so extending it to Staten Island would make it slower. The best option here is to create a Nassau Street service that would run from Chambers Street to somewhere in Staten Island. People that want express service would transfer at 59th Street.

I don't think the should be extended to SI because it is already a long local line. But I do think a Broadway line should be extended there. It could run express or local in Manhattan, but it should definitely run express in Brooklyn. That way, it can serve both Midtown and Lower Manhattan and replicate the Manhattan route of most SI express buses as closely as possible. A Nassau Street service would only serve Lower Manhattan.

[Roadcruiser1]

Not if you find a way to send the Nassau Street service up to Midtown in some way. Maybe north of Broad Street. You could send it up First Avenue then have it act as a 23rd Street Crosstown Line.