East New York Posted May 4, 2012 Share #301 Posted May 4, 2012 For those of you that do not already know, the 44 SBS has been pushed back yet again. September 2013 is now the projected launch date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted May 4, 2012 Share #302 Posted May 4, 2012 This doesn't upset me anymore. I'm actually kinda glad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acela Express Posted May 8, 2012 Share #303 Posted May 8, 2012 Yeah, I gave up hopes of operating an LFSA along the B44 route since these guys continuously delay the launch. I'm starting to wonder if MTA's operation planning is rethinking the whole Rogers Avenue gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 8, 2012 Share #304 Posted May 8, 2012 If they send the B44 SBS up New York Ave then I give up all hope on our bus system. That is not meant to offend those who use it on New York Ave, neither is it to say that nothing should go on or around New York Ave to replace the B44 LT, neither is it to say that the B49 should not be taken off Rogers Ave and placed somewhere else like Ocean Ave while the B44 local goes up Rogers; rather it is a commentary on the fact that they would keep the line circuitous (New York Ave) and convert it to SBS rather than straighten it (Rogers Ave) before converting it to SBS. SBS and circuitousness do not mix, especially in this case where the B44 SBS via Nostrand/Rogers/Bedford can actually be effective on just about every portion of its route. This cannot be said for the other SBS routes currently in operation--the M34 is completely ineffective, the Bx12 is not very effective west of Fordham Plaza, and the only section of the M15 where it is effective at all times is 1st Ave. The other sections of the M15 only work on the weekends and maybe midday weekdays. At other times they tend to suck; Water/Pearl Sts/St. James Pl were hell when I last rode the M15 (at the height of hour). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 8, 2012 Share #305 Posted May 8, 2012 I meant the height of rush hour in that last line. Also I do not only dislike circuitous SBS routes; I do not like circuitous local/limited bus routes either. My dislike for circuitousness is not exclusive to SBS but circuitousness is worse on SBS because it defeats the purpose of SBS (if SBS is effective in the situation in question). Still and all, every circuitous local/limited bus route needs to die if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Rider Posted May 8, 2012 Share #306 Posted May 8, 2012 It does not surprise me that the date for the B/44 Select bus service has been pushed back to the middle of next year. I noted that there was something in the last week's New York Post - Classified section under the section of legal notices possibly allocating funding for the B/44 Select Bus Service.In In addition, I came across an article on the internet that I feel will be more effective in improving B/44 bus service in the short term. The article by Eric Jaffe titled "In San Francisco, buses become the police" from the February 16, 2012 issue of Atlantic Cities gaves another alternative that San Francisco is implementing on all their buses. The placement of cameras facing out with tape recorders so that those that block the bus lanes will have their pictures taken and the tickets sent out. Implementing this on the B/44 will do more to improve bus service in the short term and when B/44 select bus service is implemented make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 8, 2012 Share #307 Posted May 8, 2012 They already retrofitted many or most NYCT buses with front-facing cameras (behind the front windshield) like the ones you are talking about, including most of the buses used on the B44 (from Flatbush depot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted May 10, 2012 Share #308 Posted May 10, 2012 Update: The SBS was pushed back again to make some improvements to the effectiveness of the route, and the way it's set up. Nostrand Av. is now set to get "Bus Bulbs" similar to those that will be added to 34th street, and possibly 1st and 2nd Avs. A Bus bulb is a stop that extends from the curb right to the bus lane. They already retrofitted many or most NYCT buses with front-facing cameras (behind the front windshield) like the ones you are talking about, including most of the buses used on the B44 (from Flatbush depot). There are a few on the B44, but definitely nowhere near most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 10, 2012 Share #309 Posted May 10, 2012 They already said they were going to put the bulbs at stops between Newkirk/"D" and Flushing (not inclusive); are there any stops that are getting them besides those stops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted May 11, 2012 Share #310 Posted May 11, 2012 The B44 SBS was always supposed to get bus bulbs... The DOT's site says every stop between Church and Dekalb/Lafayette would get them, but I don't know if that's updated or not. At present, Bedford Av isn't going to have a bus lane from around Fulton St to Lafayette St, so I'd assume Fulton St going Northbound won't have a bus bulb. The M15 still doesn't have its bus bulbs, so I wouldn't wait around for the B44's bus bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 11, 2012 Share #311 Posted May 11, 2012 I would think that if they are going to delay it this much they might as well add the bus bulbs. If they do not then I call MTA fail on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted May 11, 2012 Share #312 Posted May 11, 2012 It's no question, the B44 is going to get its bus bulbs unless plans change. When I said "I wouldn't wait around" I was just referring to how the bus bulbs will probably take a long time. It's been over 18 months since M15 SBS started, still none of its bus bulbs have been built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 11, 2012 Share #313 Posted May 11, 2012 Well in that case I call MTA fail if they do not install the bulbs before officially implementing the B44 SBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted May 13, 2012 Share #314 Posted May 13, 2012 Why are you calling fail? Would you pay for gas before you got a car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 13, 2012 Share #315 Posted May 13, 2012 Because I feel that they would be likely to go 18+ months after the B44 SBS starts without installing the bulbs, like they have done with the M15 SBS, and it royally pisses me off when steps that can be taken to make buses more effective, such as bus bulbs, get put off for long ass periods of time, which tends to happen as we have seen with the M15 SBS. This is why I would call MTA fail I am seething at the fact that we cannot have buses make less frequent stops (not the B44 SBS, but buses in general) and at the fact that it is nearly impossible to get things such as physically separated bus ROWs implemented here. Or light rail or trolleys for that matter. I emphasize bus ROWs because they are significantly easier to build than trolley/LRT ROWs due to the fact that rails and electricity are not needed for buses. I think that the B44 SBS will be more effective than most other SBS lines, including all three that are currently in operation, because it is straighter than the other ones, deals with far less traffic and congestion than the other ones, and only makes four stops on the bidirectional portion of its route. The "problem" with SBS in general is that several parameters such as the ones I specified need to be satisfied in order for it to be really effective. If there were vehicles using a physically separated ROW free of traffic signals on Nostrand, such as the in an extension to Nostrand/Voorhies Aves, those vehicles could make several more stops from Flatbush Ave to Voorhies Ave than the B44 SBS will make from Flatbush Ave to Ave "X" in likely the same amount of time that it will take the B44 SBS to get from Flatbush Ave to Ave "X". Hopefully the B44 SBS is as fast and effective as I think it will be. So far I have yet to see a good reason why my estimates are inaccurate; if it turns out that they are inaccurate then I have no hope left for this bus system unless it is greatly reformed (that means physically separated ROWs and whatnot). But still, as I explained above, there are many things a physically separated ROW can do that SBS cannot. Being able to make more stops than a SBS line in the same amount of time and over the same distance as the SBS line or less is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted May 14, 2012 Share #316 Posted May 14, 2012 The hope to improving our bus system is not SBS but restructuring local bus routes so that they are more effective. Be sure to read Sheepshead Bites tomorrow to see what I mean. Today I'm discussing the problems. Tomorrow the solutions. http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2012/05/why-the-bay-needs-better-bus-service/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted May 14, 2012 Share #317 Posted May 14, 2012 Because I feel that they would be likely to go 18+ months after the B44 SBS starts without installing the bulbs, like they have done with the M15 SBS, and it royally pisses me off when steps that can be taken to make buses more effective, such as bus bulbs, get put off for long ass periods of time, which tends to happen as we have seen with the M15 SBS. This is why I would call MTA fail I am seething at the fact that we cannot have buses make less frequent stops (not the B44 SBS, but buses in general) and at the fact that it is nearly impossible to get things such as physically separated bus ROWs implemented here. Or light rail or trolleys for that matter. I emphasize bus ROWs because they are significantly easier to build than trolley/LRT ROWs due to the fact that rails and electricity are not needed for buses. I think that the B44 SBS will be more effective than most other SBS lines, including all three that are currently in operation, because it is straighter than the other ones, deals with far less traffic and congestion than the other ones, and only makes four stops on the bidirectional portion of its route. The "problem" with SBS in general is that several parameters such as the ones I specified need to be satisfied in order for it to be really effective. If there were vehicles using a physically separated ROW free of traffic signals on Nostrand, such as the in an extension to Nostrand/Voorhies Aves, those vehicles could make several more stops from Flatbush Ave to Voorhies Ave than the B44 SBS will make from Flatbush Ave to Ave "X" in likely the same amount of time that it will take the B44 SBS to get from Flatbush Ave to Ave "X". Hopefully the B44 SBS is as fast and effective as I think it will be. So far I have yet to see a good reason why my estimates are inaccurate; if it turns out that they are inaccurate then I have no hope left for this bus system unless it is greatly reformed (that means physically separated ROWs and whatnot). But still, as I explained above, there are many things a physically separated ROW can do that SBS cannot. Being able to make more stops than a SBS line in the same amount of time and over the same distance as the SBS line or less is one of them. Heh, and they call ME cynical. Why do people think that just because something is said to happen, that it should be done from the get go? How often do you even ride +SBS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted May 14, 2012 Share #318 Posted May 14, 2012 I have ridden the Bx12 SBS and M15 SBS about 10 times each. I do know how they work and have studied the travel times, the dwell times at bus stops, the time they spend sitting at traffic signals and so on and so forth. If I did not know much about SBS then I would not be able to confidently say that if the M15 SBS takes 40-43 minutes to make 14 stops over 6.1 miles on 1st Ave (2nd St to 125 St) at the height of rush hour, then the B44 SBS should take no longer than 48 minutes to make 16 stops over 9.3 miles from Knapp St to Bridge Plaza at the height of rush hour. 49 southbound. Any longer than that for non-emergency reasons (wheelchair passengers, not just accidents that back up traffic, count as emergencies too since they add a good amount of time to the trip) = fail. The hope to improving our bus system is not SBS but restructuring local bus routes so that they are more effective. Partially correct; does not change the fact that if the B44 SBS does not perform up to my expectations then I have no hope left for this bus system unless it is greatly reformed in the ways that I specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted May 14, 2012 Share #319 Posted May 14, 2012 That's why these restructuring threads are popping up, because people here are trying to do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted May 14, 2012 Share #320 Posted May 14, 2012 And I really appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted May 14, 2012 Share #321 Posted May 14, 2012 And I really appreciate that. I'm actually suprised, since you've been quite quiet in the Brooklyn overhaul thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acela Express Posted August 10, 2012 Share #322 Posted August 10, 2012 Yeah, so according to our Local 100 VP Division Chair, the 44SBS is constantly being pushed back because they are having a hard time maneuvering the artics throughout the depot (which explains why the XD60 was there recently about 2 weeks ago). It's real tight inside the depot moving that 62 ft monster around, and even putting them in the backyard may be a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 10, 2012 Share #323 Posted August 10, 2012 damn... if it comes down to it would they just say Eff it and just use NGs like the M34 SBS and S79 SBS? Was it always a necessity that the B44 SBS had to use artics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 10, 2012 Share #324 Posted August 10, 2012 I would say so. If the 34 has its dwell time issues with the shorties, you think the 44 should have shorties as well when it carries more people and the buses are packed most of the time between Fulton and Church/"D"/JCT and almost always SRO, sometimes packed, between JCT and "U"/"X"? I would be pissed if they put shorties on the 44 SBS. It would be even worse than the damn 34 because the dwell times would suck forever due to the absence of one door and the absence of interior room, and it would not be conducive to ridership growth at all. Plus if they just said screw it and put the shorties on the line it would show a good deal of negligence and carelessness on their part. I expect a significant uptick in ridership after they convert it to SBS as long as it has Artics; there is no way I would say that if they were just going to use shorties there. Much better idea to just wait until the Artics are here to make the line SBS than to put shorties on the SBS line and wreck it like they wrecked the 34 (the 34 and 79 are two lousy excuses for SBS lines in my book, not only because of shorties, which I think belong only on 79 but not 34). This is all based on the assumption that they will have the same headways or better on the SBS as they currently do on the LTD (they *did* say it would be 3 minutes rush hours and 7 off peak) even with Artics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 10, 2012 Share #325 Posted August 10, 2012 But from what Acela said about the depot and lot, it doesn't seem like the depot is ready to handle artics. So I'm wondering if it's even worth it at this point with all the delays. Also would they need to do something drastic and have the B44 SBS based from Grand Av and take back part of the B47 line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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