B44 +SelectBusService+

[East New York]

Since Flatbush is artic-ready, is there a chance that the B41 and B46 could get them down the road?

 

I could see them on the B41 maybe at peak times, but not the B46. That route is pretty hopeless for anything other than an RTS or off board payment. And I'm pretty sure Flatbush can't hold enough artics for the 46 either. (Not simultaneously with the 44 that is)

['89 Liberty MCI]

Why do you say that?

 

Now that the B44 SBS will remain in Flatbush, the relief point will be changed from the Junction to Knapp Street since an SBS route must have its relief point at the end of the route. At least I'm pretty sure of this since reliefs in the middle of the route can be quite disruptive. I know they do that in the subways in some cases ( at Bedford Park rather than 205 Street, at Euclid Avenue rather than Lefferts Blvd/Far Rock/Rock Park), but that's different since subways are not affected by as many variables as buses are.

 

Also when reliefs occur in the subway, the train operator/conductor making the relief simply have to walk into their cabs, put their stuff down, whip out the switch key (conductor) or brake handle (operator), and flip the seat down if they wish to sit. Bus operators making reliefs have to pre-trip the bus (though not many do this especially when the bus arrives late), put their stuff down, close the cab door or crowd control bar, sit down, fasten the seat belt, adjust the seat, adjust the mirrors, and log in to the farebox. If reliefs occur at the end of the line then there is time to do this without disrupting service. You just do it during the recovery/layover period when nobody is on the bus.

 

Obviously if they had put the B44 SBS in Grand the relief point would be at Washington Plaza. The way for a bus operator on the SBS to make a relief would be to report to Grand and then ride the Q59 to Washington Plaza. The way for a Flatbush operator on the B44 SBS to reach the relief point will now be to report to Flatbush and take the B3 to Avenue U/Nostrand for the B44 to Knapp Street. The B3 and B44 both run more frequently than the Q59, and the Q59 is especially bad with its 20-minute headways in the middle of the day when most reliefs occur. You could report to the depot on time, go upstairs, get your trip sheet, go downstairs and watch the Q59 pulling away so that you have to wait 20 minutes for the next one.

 

Later on you'd probably correct this by coming in a little earlier, but even when you know the headway is 20 minutes you could have some disaster and end up waiting much longer. If one bus is MIA, 20 minutes become 40 minutes. Also Grand Avenue depot is in the middle of the Q59 route while Flatbush depot and Kings Plaza are practically at the beginning of the B3 route, so the wait time is more predictable on the B3 in this case since less can happen to the B3 between Bergen Beach and Kings Plaza than to the Q59 between Rego Park and Grand Avenue/47 Street. You're more likely to have operators miss reliefs if they have to deal with the Q59 than if they have to deal with the B3/B44, and that would disrupt service and make the B44 go bad in a hurry if it happened enough.

[Eric B]

I was just informed this morning that Flatbush has now been prepped for artics, and lifts are now in place. So, there were talks of the SBS portion going to Grand. As it turns out, it will not, and I stand corrected.

 

I have confirmed that Flatbush is officially artic ready now!:cool:

I wonder how they resolved whatever issues prevented articls from coming over years ago.

 

It would be cool if they got a few old Flyers for the 41, as I always wanted to see them on there. The Flatbush corridor always seemed like a slice of Manhattan, growing up, so I wish it had the same fleet.

[FamousNYLover]

I got email regardding B44 SBS

July 21, 2011

 

Dear Stakeholder,

 

Summer is in full swing and we are too, working hard toward implementing Select Bus Service (SBS) on Nostrand and Rogers Avenues. We are in the process of designing SBS stations and surveying businesses about their loading and parking needs. The attached newsletter (also available on the DOT website here) describes in detail the progress of the project and upcoming work planned.

 

Please share this newsletter with other interested community members. If you have any questions or comments about the project, please contact me, Veronica Bailey-Simmons, Project Outreach Consultant at (917) 339-0488 or vbailey@hshassoc.com. You can also visit the project website for additional project information.

 

Sincerely,

Veronica Bailey-Simmons

https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment?ui=2&ik=80227758f0&view=att&th=1314cdbddd78202a&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P8FPpIwr9chdpqqTEKVarAO&sadet=1311259325035&sads=h02Tje4fHKV3cLzUbfsRQZfJ44E

[Future ENY OP]

I was just informed this morning that Flatbush has now been prepped for artics, and lifts are now in place. So, there were talks of the SBS portion going to Grand. As it turns out, it will not, and I stand corrected.

 

I have confirmed that Flatbush is officially artic ready now!:cool:

 

:tup: that's definitely good news on that forefront.

 

I remember a few years ago, 5383 at the time out of GH was training at FLA, probably at the time the lifts weren't in place.

 

I believe there's a new artic order to commence between August and September of this year, or will that be pushed back?

[East New York]

I wonder how they resolved whatever issues prevented articls from coming over years ago.

 

It would be cool if they got a few old Flyers for the 41, as I always wanted to see them on there. The Flatbush corridor always seemed like a slice of Manhattan, growing up, so I wish it had the same fleet.

 

The lifts were installed, and the parking/maintenance space was worked out as well.

 

:tup: that's definitely good news on that forefront.

 

I remember a few years ago, 5383 at the time out of GH was training at FLA, probably at the time the lifts weren't in place.

 

I believe there's a new artic order to commence between August and September of this year, or will that be pushed back?

 

The new artics are set to begin delivery in about 10 days! August 1st.:cool:

[trainfan22]

I wonder if FLA will get their batch of Nova Artics in this upcoming order, and just run them on their regular routes until the SBS starts (Like when LSFAs ran on the old M15 Limited before they changed it over to SBS).

 

I agree with Eric in regards to seeing the New Flyer Artics on Flatbush routes, namely the 41. Would be nice to see the D60s running though C40LF turf (B11, B9, B67, etc)

[Mysterious2train]

 

I have confirmed that Flatbush is officially artic ready now!:cool:

 

 

I have confirmed that Flatbush is officially artic ready now!:cool:

 

I have confirmed that Flatbush is officially artic ready now!:cool:

 

Flatbush

 

artic ready

 

[East New York]

I wonder if FLA will get their batch of Nova Artics in this upcoming order, and just run them on their regular routes until the SBS starts (Like when LSFAs ran on the old M15 Limited before they changed it over to SBS).

 

I agree with Eric in regards to seeing the New Flyer Artics on Flatbush routes, namely the 41. Would be nice to see the D60s running though C40LF turf (B11, B9, B67, etc)

 

IIRC, the first and ONLY Flatbush route (for now) to get artics will be the B44 SBS. If anything, the LTD may get a few. But definitely not out of this first batch.

 

West Farms, and Gun Hill are scheduled to get them first. Long before Flatbush will.

 

100 St. may be on the list to. I'll have to double check on that one though.

[Mysterious2train]

I got email regardding B44 SBS

 

 

This is the Summer Newsletter she was referring to on the DOE's site. It's essentially the same old same old, but it mentions the January 2013 starting date, talks about merchant surveys (asking business owners on Bedford/Rogers/Nostrand about their needs), and includes

the updated map (which replaces the (Mx) with the and includes the Ave D/Newkirk Av stop that was added.)

 

I can't link you guys to the updated map, because it only exists as part of two different powerpoints, and taking a screenshot wouldn't really help, but you can see the old map here.

 

Outside the newsletter, The DOT's site itself hasn't been updated, and with the exception of adding the and the Newkirk Av stop to the list of stops, the (MTA)'s site is still not updated.

 

IIRC, the first and ONLY Flatbush route (for now) to get artics will be the B44 SBS. If anything, the LTD may get a few. But definitely not out of this first batch.

 

West Farms, and Gun Hill are scheduled to get them first. Long before Flatbush will.

 

100 St. may be on the list to. I'll have to double check on that one though.

 

That's OK.

 

West Farms = Possible LFSAs on Bx15

Gun Hill = Possible LFSAs on Bx55

100th St = Possible LFSAs on M86 and M101

I know it's tentative, but THERE'S NO WAY I CAN LOSE!

I'm getting off-topic...

[East New York]

IIRC, the first and ONLY Flatbush route (for now) to get artics will be the B44 SBS. If anything, the LTD may get a few. But definitely not out of this first batch.

 

West Farms, and Gun Hill are scheduled to get them first. Long before Flatbush will.

 

100 St. may be on the list to. I'll have to double check on that one though.

 

Gun Hill, 126th Street, and West Farms are on the list from what I am being told. However, I did hear rumors of New Flyer X Artics going to WF as well. I'll contact a friend about all this tonight to insure its accuracy.

[TriboroughBridge]

I know we still have time, but am I the only one that's outraged by the fact that the MTA is having the (B44) SBS run up Rogers Ave instead of New York Ave?

 

Often I have to go to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza & only the limited goes there, during the day.

 

I live between Brooklyn Ave & New York Ave, smack in middle of the block. I'm not interested in walking two & half blocks to Rogers Ave, when they can have the SBS run up New York Ave, not to mention the fact that Rogers/Bedford Ave already have a bus line, (B49).

['89 Liberty MCI]

Just so anyone else that sees this thread can breathe easy, let me just say that I will not voice my opinion again, as I had been doing that for a while and we had had a long debate about this a while back; and some people might look at this thread and say "not again!"

 

So to avoid that, let it be known that I will not speak on this matter. Carry on.

[BrooklynBus]

I know we still have time, but am I the only one that's outraged by the fact that the MTA is having the (B44) SBS run up Rogers Ave instead of New York Ave?

 

 

 

The articulated buses can't make the turn from Nostrand to Glenwood to New York Avenue.

[B35 via Church]

I know we still have time, but am I the only one that's outraged by the fact that the MTA is having the (B44) SBS run up Rogers Ave instead of New York Ave?

 

Often I have to go to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza & only the limited goes there, during the day.

 

I live between Brooklyn Ave & New York Ave, smack in middle of the block. I'm not interested in walking two & half blocks to Rogers Ave, when they can have the SBS run up New York Ave, not to mention the fact that Rogers/Bedford Ave already have a bus line, (B49).

lol, you aint the only one, champ

*looks at self*

 

I don't know how many posts I made on here pointing out this very thing....

Someone else that shares my biggest concern with this B44 SBS :tup:

[TriboroughBridge]

The articulated buses can't make the turn from Nostrand to Glenwood to New York Avenue.

 

Are you kidding me? That's the reason? No bus in Brooklyn uses articulated buses & the (B44) is doing somewhat fine with the buses it has now.

 

The (M34) doesnt have articulated buses, so why should the (B44) need them?

 

I'd rather have a little less room on a bus then have it re-routed, especially when it's quite a distance from me.

[BrooklynBus]

Are you kidding me? That's the reason?

 

That's what the MTA stated at last year's presentation to Community Board 15.

[LTA1992]

Are you kidding me? That's the reason? No bus in Brooklyn uses articulated buses & the (B44) is doing somewhat fine with the buses it has now.

 

The (M34) doesnt have articulated buses, so why should the (B44) need them?

 

I'd rather have a little less room on a bus then have it re-routed, especially when it's quite a distance from me.

 

Sir, first of all, you dont wanna walk 2 and a half blocks to a bus stop? Thats not far at all. 2nd, the expects a service boost on the +B44 so artics are the smarter choice. And more people=more busses. 30 artics beats 60 40 footers anyday. And PS, the +M34 and +M34A will be getting artics in the future. Read my signature for a truth.

[BrooklynBus]

Sir, first of all, you dont wanna walk 2 and a half blocks to a bus stop? Thats not far at all. 2nd.

 

2 1/2 Avenue blocks equals eight city blocks and that's just the distance to the SBS routes (3/8 mile); some may have to walk up to an additional 1/4 mile to an SBS stop. That (5/8 mile) far exceeds to guidelines for a local bus and even to the subway. And if you have to face the same thing when you get off the bus. You might as well as forget about SBS, because most likely your time walking and waiting will exceed your time riding the bus. Also try those walks when it gets very cold and windy or near 100 degrees, when it is snowing, if you are lugging a shopping cart or something heavy, or are having a pain in your leg and tell me how much fun that walk was.

[Mysterious2train]

@LTA1992: What would you rather take? A bus that drops you off right on your block or a bus that drops you off 2 long blocks away? While I'd like to believe the SBS on Rogers would save some time over the local going up on NY Avenue to any given street, the time savings wouldn't really be worth the long walk. For a lot of people anyway. It's not too much of a stretch to say that the local buses will be overcrowded.

 

The didn't do themselves a favor here. When those B44s on New York Avenue get crowded, the will have to add more local service. If they do, people on Nostrand and Bedford might take the local over the SBS in noticable numbers unless they're convinced the SBS is worth the extra time spent waiting.

 

And I'm still wondering what the will do with the Southern end of the route. Since it's clear they don't want to extend the B44 local (due to the lack of ridership to justify it and the money needed) they're gonna have to move or add a stop or something.

 

Hmmm, I don't really like this proposal as much anymore.

[checkmatechamp13]

And I'm still wondering what the will do with the Southern end of the route. Since it's clear they don't want to extend the B44 local (due to the lack of ridership to justify it and the money needed) they're gonna have to move or add a stop or something.

 

Hmmm, I don't really like this proposal as much anymore.

 

All locals will go down to Knapp Street, even though they'll be pretty empty. It'll be like the M15, when all of the locals were (initially) extended down to South Ferry even though ridership isn't too high there (I'd say most of the riders are off by Catherine Street).

 

I mean, the difference is that the M15 does at least see decent ridership at the southern end, whereas that isn't the case with the B44.

[BrooklynBus]

 

I mean, the difference is that the M15 does at least see decent ridership at the southern end, whereas that isn't the case with the B44.

 

Exactly. That's why I wish people would get together to tell the MTA they would rather see the B44SBS terminate at Sheepshead Bay Station instead. It just seems dumb to me to double service and use larger buses in an area with 6 people per bus during rush hour. They promised me that they would consider it if Sheepshead Bay comes out in large numbers supporting it. If even a few B4 riders switch to the B44 when they see a bus coming every 5 minutes

as opposed to a B4 every 20, it may e enough of a reason or them to permanently terminate the B4 at Coney Island Hospital at all times which is what thru tried to do in 2009 and again in 2010 until I talked them out of it. They even told me that I was the one who changed their mind.

[LTA1992]

@LTA1992: What would you rather take? A bus that drops you off right on your block or a bus that drops you off 2 long blocks away? While I'd like to believe the SBS on Rogers would save some time over the local going up on NY Avenue to any given street, the time savings wouldn't really be worth the long walk. For a lot of people anyway. It's not too much of a stretch to say that the local buses will be overcrowded.

 

The didn't do themselves a favor here. When those B44s on New York Avenue get crowded, the will have to add more local service. If they do, people on Nostrand and Bedford might take the local over the SBS in noticable numbers unless they're convinced the SBS is worth the extra time spent waiting.

 

And I'm still wondering what the will do with the Southern end of the route. Since it's clear they don't want to extend the B44 local (due to the lack of ridership to justify it and the money needed) they're gonna have to move or add a stop or something.

 

Hmmm, I don't really like this proposal as much anymore.

 

Pfft, I've never had a bus drop me off on my block. My longest distance was 5 long blocks which equal 10 short blocks. A 2 1/2 block walk onle equals 5 short blocks sir, and the walk should only be 5 minutes. My current distance is 1 Manhattan block and one regular long block. Distance dosent matter to me as long as I know when the bus comes. Having a bus stop on the block you live on is something most people dont have. Its the change thats the problem. Besides, the wait for SBS busses are never long so if you miss one there should be no problem.

[qjtransitmaster]

Pfft, I've never had a bus drop me off on my block. My longest distance was 5 long blocks which equal 10 short blocks. A 2 1/2 block walk onle equals 5 short blocks sir, and the walk should only be 5 minutes. My current distance is 1 Manhattan block and one regular long block. Distance dosent matter to me as long as I know when the bus comes. Having a bus stop on the block you live on is something most people dont have. Its the change thats the problem. Besides, the wait for SBS busses are never long so if you miss one there should be no problem.

 

well said i don't have a bus at my block or even subway I have to walk so like everybody else WALK!!!!!! tired of ppl whining about the long walk of 5 mins get over it ppl

[Mysterious2train]

I can understand you guys not being too concerned about walking distance since you guys already have to walk to a bus, but not everybody is like that.

 

You guys are missing my point.

 

Most riders want to get to where they're quick, fast and in a hurry. Why exactly would they want to go out of their way when there's a bus taking them right to their destination??

 

When the SBS gets artics, frequency will probably be equal to if not a little more than the local. If you're going along NY, they're not much of a point in going to Rogers and back. The will probably go looking to reduce local service during parts of the day like they did on the M15 and Bx12. Here I thought that the SBS services starting earlier than the Limiteds they replaced would be extra service, turns out not so much.

 

And besides, the SBS will only make 5 stops along Rogers between Flatbush and Fulton, so it's not like you can hike over to it and back for any trip.

 

The way the is setting things up now, there's gonna be a bunch of people abandoning the Limited/SBS for the local.