Savino calls for subway, rail links for Staten Island with floating $3B

[Tokkemon]

That argument would have worked 20 years ago; it no longer does. SI has plenty of its own crime, it won't get it from the other boroughs.

[lilbluefoxie]

how about a restoration of the June 25 service cuts for x-mas, including restoring the LIRR cuts?

[metsfan]

They should just put the same LRV's they have on the RiverLINE on the SIRT north shore.

 

- A

[TheArr]

Since most SI residents are middle class suburban types, many argue that the subway will increase the borough's very low crime rates, so the more pricier express bus is preferred.

 

A significant portion of SI's population and neighborhoods are relatively low-income areas, places where public transit has the most benefit, and crime already exists.

[TwoTimer]

AirTrain LGA from Willets along the GCP still is the most economical and best bet, utilizing mostly parkland and that marina that's generally speaking not near any homes.

 

Before dreaming of the , how about just the to 125 for starters? I finally got to see what was on the other side of that wall at 63rd and Lex recently along with City Hall yard

 

The harbor is fine the way it is, its really waterfront development is the next way to go. Venice has a intricate network of bridges and ferries and what not. We have a vast amount of water too, access to the waterfront and high speed electric or hybrid ferries (that should reach 50 mph+) is an interesting idea. Most cities just have one river cutting through and so many areas of interest are landlocked. Many places here are walking distance from water, from the financial district down by the Seaport to the Javits Center and Yankee Stadium, etc. Areas of upper Manhattan and essential parts of all boroughs are right on the water as well (I'll leave SI for now, just talking about the other boros). Communities that are currently in original "two fare" zones or not close to subways that could have ferries actually shorten their commute include...

 

Co-op (sections 5 and 4), Castle Hill/Throggs Neck, Classon Point, Inwood, Astoria, Bayside/Little Neck, Roosevelt Island, Upper East Side (until 2Av finishes), Red Hook, Coney Island (remember nothing leaving Coney actually goes to Lower Manhattan w/out a transfer), Marine Park, parts of Canarsie (not everywhere down there is near the station), and of course the Rockaways.

 

Oh yeah, and that rail station (utilizing Amtrak lines) at Co-op and Parkchester is also a plus

[NYCTSignals]

they would probably have to double the size of the SIR because you'll def. have triple the number pple on it.......all tho i think it would be a good idea because its another way to get off this island.......the ferry and the buses arent all that dependable

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Can't build a bridge to Liberty, and Ellis Island the distance is too vast.

 

For Streetcars I want people to be realistic and stop dreaming. New York City is now a city with 8.5 million people. It doesn't have 1.5 million people on the Streetcar days. Today's New York City is crowded and wouldn't be a great place for them. They would block the streets and jam traffic. PS You know how crazy NYC Drivers are so why do people want it so badly the only place that would possibly work with Streetcars is Eastern Queens and Staten Island.

 

The Second Avenue Subway will not be completed, and maybe not for the next 3.5 billion years . There is one reason why NIMBY's. The Second Avenue Subway has been proposed for decades. Do some of you know that the original Second Avenue Subway proposal included 6 tracks. 2 local tracks, 2 express tracks, and 2 super express tracks in 1929. That never happened, because of the Great Depression. Don't count on it to be extended to other boroughs or anywhere else too when it's done that won't happen for 4 billion more years

 

Although I favor a subway to Staten Island there is another reason why it would never be built NIMBY's (same as Second Avenue) I can give you two reasons why they don't want the subway. 1) It would force Staten Island to become another Brooklyn, and most Staten Islanders I know like it because it's quiet. 2) They don't want the density of New York, and the crime, and what they would call the scum of NYC coming in.

 

Now I may agree with a subway extension to LaGuardia, but again the neighborhood of Astoria is full of NIMBY's, and they already want the Astoria El to come down. So they wouldn't want it extended, because they would protest. Another way is to create a LaGuardia Airtrain or a LaGuardia Airport from a station from the Flushing Line , that would be underground. That would work better, but I would favor the LaGuardia Airport idea more, because if Astoria ever changes their mind the could be extended to Astoria Ditmars Boulevard therefore creating a connection between Astoria, and Flushing while serving LaGuardia at the same time.

 

I doubt JFK Airport would need subway service. They originally got one called the -JFK Express. It wasn't popular. If there is future demand though maybe the could be extended from Leffert's Boulevard to the JFK Terminal.

 

Subway service to Newark, and NJ isn't useful right now partially, because PATH and the HBLR already does the same job, and any subway service to NJ would have to past state jurisdiction which won't happen for a long time.

 

The , and extension to 23rd Street won't happen for another 1 billion years .

 

Most Staten Islanders feel this way, as well as local representatives. When we say we want better transportation, what we really want more than anything is more frequent service and more importantly consistent service, because even with frequent service a line like the X1 still suffers from overcrowding mainly due to inconsistency of buses.

 

Now some may argue that we need a subway, but even with a subway you would still need to make 2-3 transfers and you eliminate that with the express bus. To be honest the commute isn't really that bad. It's the 3 or more connections that are the problem because you will lose at least 10 minutes making each connection. No way around that.

 

Some politicians have argued that the express bus should be cheaper because we don't have subways, but in reality the majority of us see the express bus as the best subway service on the island and really don't mind paying more for it because it eliminates the riff raff that is found on the subway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That argument would have worked 20 years ago; it no longer does. SI has plenty of its own crime, it won't get it from the other boroughs.

 

And still we have the lowest crime rate out of all of the boroughs, so yes it still works because the crime is in isolated areas of Staten Island, and mainly in the areas where housing projects are.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A significant portion of SI's population and neighborhoods are relatively low-income areas, places where public transit has the most benefit, and crime already exists.

 

Because most of the low income areas you're referring to are on the North Shore and most of that is due to the housing projects that were forced down our throats and depressed areas like Port Richmond which has a large poor illegal immigrant population. Inspite of all of that, we still the highest median income out of all of the boroughs. You are right about the transportation too in that the poor areas of Staten Island are served decently by the local buses.

[Roadcruiser1]

The main reason why some of these areas in Staten Island has crime is because of the poverty level, and the unemployment. Though any future subway or HBLR extension to Staten Island could give them jobs detering crime. It would also benefit in the long term.

 

Let's say for example they rebuilt the North Shore Line as a light rail line connected to the HBLR extension down the West Shore from the Bayonne Bridge with 2 branches coming off the line one to the Staten Island Mall and the Annadale station along the SIR, and the other a Staten Island Expressway crosstown that would run up to the Verrazano. That would create a lot of jobs, and result in pernament development of the West Shore. This would also be good, because people would hire others to build houses, streets, tracks, parking lots, schools, and churchs.

 

To be even more benefical lets say a new Nassau Street local service from Broad Street was send down there, branches off the Fourth Avenue Subway from 59th Street, and enters a tunnel to Saint George via the SIR to Tottenville, and to help relieve the crowding of people from just using this new service the is extended from it's current terminus of Canarsie onto the LIRR Bay Ridge Branch former ROW which would create a crosstown Brooklyn Line. Then it would get sent into the tunnel, and run via the former SIR ROW all the way to Tottenville.

 

There is also no need for any worries. The line is built to handle four tracks south of Canarsie so it can be two tracks for subway services, and 2 tracks for freight services. The line around there is also owned by the LIRR.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The main reason why some of these areas in Staten Island has crime is because of the poverty level. Though any future subway or HBLR extension to Staten Island could give them jobs detering crime.

 

I mean we have a very large Mexican population in Port Richmond and most of them are illegal and don't speak English. Then you have the housing project people, many of whom aren't very educated either, so I don't know how having a subway here would create jobs for those people.

[Roadcruiser1]

Construction. Have them build houses, tracks, anything along the West Shore.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Construction. Have them build houses, tracks, anything along the West Shore.

 

And you think the unions would go for that? I used to work in the field dealing with the insurance end of it with the buildings and that is one the biggest problems. A skilled union worker getting paid $60.00/hr and an illegal getting paid $20.00... Besides what about after the construction... You'd be back in the same situation again...

[checkmatechamp13]

Because most of the low income areas you're referring to are on the North Shore and most of that is due to the housing projects that were forced down our throats and depressed areas like Port Richmond which has a large poor illegal immigrant population. Inspite of all of that, we still the highest median income out of all of the boroughs. You are right about the transportation too in that the poor areas of Staten Island are served decently by the local buses.

 

Local buses are still a relatively slow form of transport. To go from Forest Avenue/South Avenue to St. George takes about 30 minutes if you take the S40, 40 minutes if you take the S46, and 35 minutes if you take the S48-all to go a distance of about 5-6 miles. That is about 8-12 miles per hour, on average. Compare that to a train, which can go at least 20 miles per hour.

 

Think about it this way-in 40 minutes, you can ride 14 miles from St. George to Tottenville using the SIR, rather than 6 miles to South Avenue.

 

As far as the logic of the subway bringing in a "bad element", there are many parts of Manhattan that have low crime even though they are right near the subway. Parts of Brooklyn like Bay Ridge, Midwood, Downtown Brooklyn, and Park Slope are all safe areas, even though they have subway service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Local buses are still a relatively slow form of transport. To go from Forest Avenue/South Avenue to St. George takes about 30 minutes if you take the S40, 40 minutes if you take the S46, and 35 minutes if you take the S48-all to go a distance of about 5-6 miles. That is about 8-12 miles per hour, on average. Compare that to a train, which can go at least 20 miles per hour.

 

Think about it this way-in 40 minutes, you can ride 14 miles from St. George to Tottenville using the SIR, rather than 6 miles to South Avenue.

 

As far as the logic of the subway bringing in a "bad element", there are many parts of Manhattan that have low crime even though they are right near the subway. Parts of Brooklyn like Bay Ridge, Midwood, Downtown Brooklyn, and Park Slope are all safe areas, even though they have subway service.

 

 

It brings a lot of riff raff to well-to-do areas on the South Shore. Many of us think that the fares should be re-instated at all stations there for that reason.

[checkmatechamp13]

But the crime rates of the South Shore aren't that high, even with the riff-raff riding the trains.

 

If you think about it, the North Shore is served by buses, and the crime rate is higher on this side of SI, even if the South Shore has the free SIR (and there are some well-to-do areas on the North Shore, like Westerleigh and Randall Manor)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But the crime rates of the South Shore aren't that high, even with the riff-raff riding the trains.

 

If you think about it, the North Shore is served by buses, and the crime rate is higher on this side of SI, even if the South Shore has the free SIR (and there are some well-to-do areas on the North Shore, like Westerleigh and Randall Manor)

 

Because there are NO HOUSING PROJECTS on the South Shore... If we had no housing projects on the North Shore, I'm willing to bet our crime would be lower than the South Shore. Parts of West Brighton where I live are very well-to-do and very safe, but our crime rates are inflated by the housing projects down by Castleton. To be honest, I don't go anywhere below Delafield Avenue. But just think about that... Housing projects on the very edge of West Brighton, Stapleton, Mariners Harbor, all on the North Shore, and none on the South Shore. Then think of the affluent areas like Emerson Hill, Grymes Hill and Todt Hill, which are all on the North Shore, take out the projects and see how much more affluent we'd be and how lower our crime rates would be compared to the South Shore. I'd say that much of the riff raff on the SIR comes from areas like Stapleton.

[Roadcruiser1]

I don't really get the problem with illegal immigrants. We say they take American jobs, but would some Americans want these jobs. Besides do you think we all came here legally in the first place. Nope the Pilgrims came here with beer they didn't come with passports. So I say the whole world should do away with illegal immigration, because even in Australia the original Australian were all ex-cons, and they didn't have passports either. So it's basic bull crap. Whoever came up with it was just a plain stupid racist son of a gun.

 

Second of all, and it's now on topic. People would benefit in the long run with the high amount of employment that would come on this, because they would store the money in bank accounts. They would gain interest, and since these projects could take years to build. Their money would basically increase in banks, because of interest. By the time these projects would be done Staten Island's crime rate and poverty rate would decline.

 

Third of all I think that linking Staten Island to NYC & NJ would give Staten Island more benefit. People in Brooklyn would no longer have to go to Manhattan to ride PATH. They would use the Subway and transfer to the HBLR to Hoboken. Low income families would also have direct access to the Staten Island Mall. To please Staten Islanders the West Shore could be populated with large mansions, and houses so only the White Collar workers would be able to afford them. Thus it would also continue to deter crime. To continue on with this schools on the West Shore could be mostly Catholic and Charter. That takes care of most problems.

 

Another one of my Staten Island plan is the most radical. It's to build a whole new bridge to Staten Island from Brooklyn. This bridge would be parallel to the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and would be much more massive then the Verrazano. My idea calls for this bridge to have a total of 12 lanes (8 lanes on top, 4 lanes on the bottom), 4 tracks for Subway or Commuter Rail extensions, 1 pedestrian walkway, and 1 bike lane bi directional. The reason would be to take off the load from the Verrazano, and if an accident occurs on one of them the other one would be okay allowing better traffic flows. It would also help by taking cars off the roads.

 

In the end I believe my plans would spur Staten Island's economy as much as when the Brooklyn Bridge was built to connect Brooklyn to Manhattan. In the end I believe the benefits out weight the costs.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't really get the problem with illegal immigrants. We say they take American jobs, but would some Americans want these jobs. Besides do you think we all came here legally in the first place. Nope the Pilgrims came here with beer they didn't come with passports. So I say the whole world should do away with illegal immigration, because even in Australia the original Australian were all ex-cons, and they didn't have passports either. So it's basic bull crap. Whoever came up with it was just a plain stupid racist son of a gun.

 

Second of all, and it's now on topic. People would benefit in the long run with the high amount of employment that would come on this, because they would store the money in bank accounts. They would gain interest, and since these projects could take years to build. Their money would basically increase in banks, because of interest. By the time these projects would be done Staten Island's crime rate and poverty rate would decline.

 

Third of all I think that linking Staten Island to NYC & NJ would give Staten Island more benefit. People in Brooklyn would no longer have to go to Manhattan to ride PATH. They would use the Subway and transfer to the HBLR to Hoboken. Low income families would also have direct access to the Staten Island Mall. To please Staten Islanders the West Shore could be populated with large mansions, and houses so only the White Collar workers would be able to afford them. Thus it would also continue to deter crime. To continue on with this schools on the West Shore could be mostly Catholic and Charter. That takes care of most problems.

 

Another one of my Staten Island plan is the most radical. It's to build a whole new bridge to Staten Island from Brooklyn. This bridge would be parallel to the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, and would be much more massive then the Verrazano. My idea calls for this bridge to have a total of 12 lanes (8 lanes on top, 4 lanes on the bottom), 4 tracks for Subway or Commuter Rail extensions, 1 pedestrian walkway, and 1 bike lane bi directional. The reason would be to take off the load from the Verrazano, and if an accident occurs on one of them the other one would be okay allowing better traffic flows. It would also help by taking cars off the roads.

 

In the end I believe my plans would spur Staten Island's economy as much as when the Brooklyn Bridge was built to connect Brooklyn to Manhattan. In the end I believe the benefits out weight the costs.

 

Our infrastructure can barely handle the traffic now and hasn't been updated to handle the massive population growth from the creation of the original Verrazano bridge, so we could not cope with your plan unless massive improvements were made to the roads here, as most of them are quite narrow.

 

With regards to illegal immigration, it's very simple... You want to come here and work, fine but do so legally and pay your fair share of taxes like the rest of us. Sure they do pay some taxes, but not the full amount that they should be since most of them work off of the books. Immigration laws are a necessity to protect each country and its citizens.

[Roadcruiser1]

Here is my Staten Island Mass Transit Plan (Staten Island Transportation Initiative). The plan includes extending the HBLR on the former North Shore, down the West Shore, and an alignment to the Staten Island Mall. It includes converting the SIR to a subway line, and connecting the to the current 4 tracked Bay Ridge Branch (it would only use 2 tracks), and sending it to SI in a 59th Street Tunnel along with a new Nassau Street service that would run from Broad Street down Fourth Avenue as a local. There is also an LIRR/PATH joint operated railroad that would use the other 2 tracks of the existing Bay Ridge Branch, and it would use the new Bridge parallel to the Verrazano, and run parallel to the Staten Island Expressway to NJ where it would stop at Newark Liberty International Airport.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Here is my Staten Island Mass Transit Plan. The plan includes extending the HBLR on the former North Shore, down the West Shore, and an alignment to the Staten Island Mall. It includes converting the SIR to a subway line, and connecting the to the current 4 tracked Bay Ridge Branch (it would only use 2 tracks), and sending it to SI in a 59th Street Tunnel along with a new Nassau Street service that would run from Broad Street down Fourth Avenue as a local. There is also an LIRR/PATH joint operated railroad that would use the other 2 tracks of the existing Bay Ridge Branch, and it would use the new Bridge parallel to the Verrazano, and run parallel to the Staten Island Expressway to NJ where it would stop at Newark Liberty International Airport.

 

Not to laugh at you personally, but unless our mindset changes here this won't happen. Forget about the cost. The majority of us simply do not want a subway here, period. I moved to Staten Island for a suburban lifestyle and I like it nice and quiet the way it is and I would be sure to write to my representatives to see that something like this was shot down. There would need to be major infrastructure improvements to accept something like this AND I would propose making it pricey like the LIRR, which would ensure that riff raff wouldn't spread.

[Roadcruiser1]

Well I do have a backup idea. Leave the SIR alone with no subway extension whatsoever. Instead the map would include only the LIRR/PATH joint operated railroad which would be $5.50 one way, and the HBLR extensions would be $3.50 one way.

[Roadcruiser1]

Anyway is my plan going to receive any more views, criticisms. I would like to see your ideas. Oh yeah the plan is on page 2.

 

Oh yeah for those that keep saying Staten Island would be connected to nowhere. I think you should take it back by 2020.

 

My map is just an upgraded, and my own version of this map above. Also I think my map in the end would be better then this one.

[Tokkemon]

Lolololol. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Yay for foamers creating maps based on historical transit patterns with absolutely no consideration for modern population distribution.

 

The north shore line is not coming back. Get used to it.

[TheArr]

Am I the only one that thinks that a more logical routing for a west shore LR would be along richmond avenue?