Savino calls for subway, rail links for Staten Island with floating $3B

[lilbluefoxie]

I was wondering, did anyone ever consider putting train tracks on the verrazano bridge? either for freight or for the subway. That seems like the easiest way to get trains to go from brooklyn to staten island, the same way cars do.

[theaveragejoe]

I'm going to quote something from Wikipedia:

"At present, freight trains from the west and south destined for New York City (except for Staten Island) Long Island and Connecticut must cross the Hudson 140 miles (225 km) north of New York City at Selkirk, New York, making a detour known as the "Selkirk hurdle." "

 

This suggests to me that the best way to build the Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel is to simply have trains go over the Arthur Kill Vertical Lift Bridge and over the North Shore Rail Line, and then going through a tunnel in the St. George area. It would be cheaper than building a tunnel directly from NJ to Brooklyn.

 

You could have a shuttle branch off the tunnel and terminate in the St. George station (coming from Brooklyn), with transfers available to other SIR trains, or, if the station was rebuilt, you could through-route trains from either the Main Line or North Shore Branch to Brooklyn. I still don't think you need the full capacity of an 8-car train carrying people from Staten Island to Brooklyn.

 

If they insist that the Cross-Harbor Rail Tunnel start in Jersey City, it should still be feasable to connect a line from SI to Brooklyn to that tunnel. See this map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CrossHarborRailTunnelMap.png

 

In any case, there are plenty of transportation projects in the 5 boroughs that the money could be used for, so, one way or another, NYC should get their hands on the money before the federal government takes it back.

 

Your forgetting about the Cross Harbour railroad that was taken over by PANYNJ. A Freight tunnel is years way off, why waste money on building it until you get the freight levels back up, which will take years to build up, your better of spending money buying a few tugs and carfloats.

[theaveragejoe]

Building a subway to SI is a waste of billions. its better off extending the HBLR across the bridge into SI. Also running a BRT style bus service across the bridge from SI to Brooklyn would work. Last overhaul the fleet of SI ferries and 3-4 new boats for expanded headways and spares in the fleet. Also increase headways for the SI so none of this 30 to 60 min off peak headways

[Roadcruiser1]

Robert Moses was asked to make the Verrazano Narrows Bridge rail and mass transit ready, but he didn't. Less what can you expect from a man who hated cities, and loved automobiles. He built the bridge to be extremely light that would start to help eliminate rail traffic from the bridge due to the heavy amount of retrofitting needed. Another thing was he built the ramps of the Verrazano to be extremely steep so no train could cross the bridge. That in total killed rail traffic on the Verrazano. I have a teacher which is an engineer, and he studied and told me the Verrazano Narrows Bridge could be used for light rail since the steepness of the ramps aren't too steep for a light rail car and the bridge is light enough for them, but the bridge still needs to be tested out and there needs to be a feasibility study for the bridge.

[BJSm]

I was wondering, did anyone ever consider putting train tracks on the verrazano bridge? either for freight or for the subway. That seems like the easiest way to get trains to go from brooklyn to staten island, the same way cars do.

 

The Verrazano Bridge was intentionally built at too steep a grade for train traffic. Robert Moses sucks.

[Roadcruiser1]

This is a pricetag based off of old costs for a tunnel from 59th Street, Brooklyn to St George, Staten Island. I would also include the cost of reactivating the North Shore Branch and running the North Shore Branch down the Travis Branch.

 

*Tunnel from 59th Street-St. George $600 million (2010)

*Activation of the North Shore Branch $400 million (2010)

*Travis Branch and extension through the West Shore $1 billion (2010)

*Converting the SIR to a subway line and extending the platforms on the SIR and closing the useless stations $600 million (2010)

*Hudson Bergen Light Rail extension via the Dr Martin Luther King Expressway $1 billion (2010)

[DOB2RTO]

I read how yall residents of NYC Mayor Bloomies, wanted to extend the to NJ. Guess business is his game, cause basically he said the residents of STI (whom supported him heavily), can go and suck an moldy rotten egg. Guess he figures nothing will be gained economically, with a subway going into STI. He says he wants better mass transit, but I guess those droves, after droves, after droves, of express buses going across the VZN, he doesn't see. Guess STI is a stepchild borough, and he would would rather extend a subway line to another state, than another borough.........

 

But then again, I could be wrong.......

[T to Dyre Avenue]

This is a pricetag based off of old costs for a tunnel from 59th Street, Brooklyn to St George, Staten Island. I would also include the cost of reactivating the North Shore Branch and running the North Shore Branch down the Travis Branch.

 

*Tunnel from 59th Street-St. George $600 million (2010)

*Activation of the North Shore Branch $400 million (2010)

*Travis Branch and extension through the West Shore $1 billion (2010)

*Converting the SIR to a subway line and extending the platforms on the SIR and closing the useless stations $600 million (2010)

*Hudson Bergen Light Rail extension via the Dr Martin Luther King Expressway $1 billion (2010)

$600 million for a tunnel from 59th to St. George? Really? I thought it would cost more than that. But for $600 million, I'd say go with a revived train running from Astoria to SI via the Broadway Line. Local in Manhattan, then via the Montague Tunnel and express via the 4th Avenue to 59th Street. By running the local in Manhattan and via the tunnel then express in Brooklyn, you would have a service that replicates the Manhattan route of most of the SI express buses.

 

As far as how the line would run in SI, if it surfaces in the St. George area, it could split off into two branches at a newly relocated St. George Station, similar to how the does at Rockaway Boulevard in Queens, with one going to South Avenue via the North Shore line and the other going to Tottenville via the existing SIRT service.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[T to Dyre Avenue]

No, the money will go somewhere. Somewhere else is most likely and not limited to just one location. Ohio and Wisconsin's newly elected Republican governors are also promising to send back the Federal money they received for high-speed rail projects the previous governors had in the works. Other states, such as Illinois and California, are clamoring for that money. I expect other states will clamor for the money Christie sent back and get it. It will most likely be divvied up among various states/regions. I doubt the Feds will decide to just pocket the money.

 

Washington and Albany - especially Albany - have to get serious and smarter about how they fund infrastructure.

[Roadcruiser1]

You know that all those people should know one thing. Every single high speed rail project in America failed, and do you know why, because America doesn't love railways. You want to know what they really love. It's the automobile, and just like all the past American high speed rail projects they will all get shot down. Or if they get built go bankrupt within several months.

[Tokkemon]

The only way high-speed rail (or ANY rail for that matter) becomes a reality is if driving a car becomes so economically unfeasible that people will be forced to ride the rails. The only reason NYC is so heavily rail focused is because there simply isn't enough room for all the cars. Not so in Indianapolis or Denver.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Yet Denver continues to build new light rail lines or at least has active plans to continue building them under its Fasttracks program. I wish MTA had that much ambition. They don't have any active plans to build more subway lines (or even light rail lines) in any of the outer boroughs.

[BJSm]

The only way high-speed rail (or ANY rail for that matter) becomes a reality is if driving a car becomes so economically unfeasible that people will be forced to ride the rails. The only reason NYC is so heavily rail focused is because there simply isn't enough room for all the cars. Not so in Indianapolis or Denver.

 

Rail is very successful where it has been implemented seriously, as in Portland, for example, even though cars are viable, from a speed and space standpoint, in Portland. The problem is that politicians tend to view rail as a way to get voters to support them rather than as an essential aspect of planning--even though they're perfectly willing to spend ten times the amount spent on rail on new highway projects.

[R32 3348]

Yet Denver continues to build new light rail lines or at least has active plans to continue building them under its Fasttracks program. I wish MTA had that much ambition. They don't have any active plans to build more subway lines (or even light rail lines) in any of the outer boroughs.

That's because we don't have any money...if we had a $10 billion surplus every year we'd have an to LGA, Queens extensions of the lines, train service to Staten Island, etc...

[Roadcruiser1]

Then why don't we have the remodel itself so it would be the same as other successful metro systems around the world. If there are successful metro systems that does better then the then do whatever it takes to get close to their success. Listen it isn't because they have high tech trains, or platform screen doors, or automated train controls. It's because they have a better way to financially use and gain their money. So if other people can do so can the .

 

Another reason why the Portland MAX Light Rail system is so successful is because they ask the FTA or the Federal Transit Administration for grants so they can extend and build to unserved locations. If the did that we could have so many subway lines here already. You would have subway lines reaching almost every single borough till there is not even one speck of unserved people.

[Tokkemon]

Portland is also a city of only 2.2 million people (Metro) and is roughly only 150 years old. New York has been around for almost triple that and has close to 9 times that population.

 

Talk about comparing Apples and Oranges!

[EE Broadway Local]

There are some interesting visions for a future New York City by Gridlock Sam in this interesting article.

 

It seems like he shares some of ours:

• Subway to Staten Island (a connection from the at Hanover Square to Saint George or a connection the at 95th Street to Clifton)

 

• Reestablishment of the SIR North Shore Line and a new SIR West Shore Line

 

• Completion of the

 

• Extension of the to Broadway/West 125th Street, 161st Street or Co-Op City

 

• train extension to 34th Street/Eleventh Avenue

 

• Trains to planes; PATH to Newark Liberty; Spur off the to La Guardia via Sunnyside Yards; AirTrain from JFK linked to the

 

• Bus Rapid Transit in the LIE and Bruckner Expressway medians

 

• A new rail tunnel between New York and New Jersey (Gridlock Sam likes the to Secaucus Junction plan)

 

• The return of streetcars

 

The full story from City Limits: http://www.citylimits.org/conversations/122/the-new-new-york-transit

[dman1455]

Hmmmm... sounds easy let me just pull out my 900 billion dollars and everything should be peachy!

[FamousNYLover]

That's one of crazy Christmas Gift!!

 

I think I would support the pedestrian bridge between Brooklyn and Manhattan via Governors Island.

If that happened, it should be drawbridges because many cruises and ferries travel through East River.

 

I also wish there was pedestrian bridge between Battery Park & Liberty and Ellis Islands.

[Roadcruiser1]

Can't build a bridge to Liberty, and Ellis Island the distance is too vast.

 

For Streetcars I want people to be realistic and stop dreaming. New York City is now a city with 8.5 million people. It doesn't have 1.5 million people on the Streetcar days. Today's New York City is crowded and wouldn't be a great place for them. They would block the streets and jam traffic. PS You know how crazy NYC Drivers are so why do people want it so badly the only place that would possibly work with Streetcars is Eastern Queens and Staten Island.

 

The Second Avenue Subway will not be completed, and maybe not for the next 3.5 billion years . There is one reason why NIMBY's. The Second Avenue Subway has been proposed for decades. Do some of you know that the original Second Avenue Subway proposal included 6 tracks. 2 local tracks, 2 express tracks, and 2 super express tracks in 1929. That never happened, because of the Great Depression. Don't count on it to be extended to other boroughs or anywhere else too when it's done that won't happen for 4 billion more years

 

Although I favor a subway to Staten Island there is another reason why it would never be built NIMBY's (same as Second Avenue) I can give you two reasons why they don't want the subway. 1) It would force Staten Island to become another Brooklyn, and most Staten Islanders I know like it because it's quiet. 2) They don't want the density of New York, and the crime, and what they would call the scum of NYC coming in.

 

Now I may agree with a subway extension to LaGuardia, but again the neighborhood of Astoria is full of NIMBY's, and they already want the Astoria El to come down. So they wouldn't want it extended, because they would protest. Another way is to create a LaGuardia Airtrain or a LaGuardia Airport from a station from the Flushing Line , that would be underground. That would work better, but I would favor the LaGuardia Airport idea more, because if Astoria ever changes their mind the could be extended to Astoria Ditmars Boulevard therefore creating a connection between Astoria, and Flushing while serving LaGuardia at the same time.

 

I doubt JFK Airport would need subway service. They originally got one called the -JFK Express. It wasn't popular. If there is future demand though maybe the could be extended from Leffert's Boulevard to the JFK Terminal.

 

Subway service to Newark, and NJ isn't useful right now partially, because PATH and the HBLR already does the same job, and any subway service to NJ would have to past state jurisdiction which won't happen for a long time.

 

The , and extension to 23rd Street won't happen for another 1 billion years B).

[FamousNYLover]

Do you notice there's bridge linking Ellis Island and Liberty State Park?

[Roadcruiser1]

I know that, but to link Liberty, and Ellis Island to Manhattan would be too vast. It's almost 3 miles. I don't think people would even walk that far to see a building, and a statue would you.

[TheArr]

All I want for christmas is 200 billion dollars.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are some interesting visions for a future New York City by Gridlock Sam in this interesting article.

 

It seems like he shares some of ours:

• Subway to Staten Island (a connection from the at Hanover Square to Saint George or a connection the at 95th Street to Clifton)

 

• Reestablishment of the SIR North Shore Line and a new SIR West Shore Line

 

• Completion of the

 

• Extension of the to Broadway/West 125th Street, 161st Street or Co-Op City

 

• train extension to 34th Street/Eleventh Avenue

 

• Trains to planes; PATH to Newark Liberty; Spur off the to La Guardia via Sunnyside Yards; AirTrain from JFK linked to the

 

• Bus Rapid Transit in the LIE and Bruckner Expressway medians

 

• A new rail tunnel between New York and New Jersey (Gridlock Sam likes the to Secaucus Junction plan)

 

• The return of streetcars

 

The full story from City Limits: http://www.citylimits.org/conversations/122/the-new-new-york-transit

 

Since most SI residents are middle class suburban types, many argue that the subway will increase the borough's very low crime rates, so the more pricier express bus is preferred.