Savino calls for subway, rail links for Staten Island with floating $3B

[Roadcruiser1]

Nope it's actually for the rich people that don't want poor people transportation. You know how the rich snobs are. They have been objecting to a tunnel to Staten Island for the Subway for years because they consider the subway a poor peoples transport. They would mostly be using the LIRR.

[NX Express]

The light rail won't cut it. How about a nonstop route running via New Jersey, without any stops there?

[Roadcruiser1]

You mean a Staten Island super express to Manhattan via New Jersey, but here is the problem if I read correctly the person who built the Bayonne Bridge only built it to handle Light Rail. Also another problem is they are jacking up the Bayonne Bridge. Only a Light Rail car can make such a steep grade. You would need two new tunnels one from Lower Manhattan and one under the Kill Vaun Kull. Plus you would have to tunnel under New Jersey. It isn't feasible.

[NX Express]

You mean a Staten Island super express to Manhattan via New Jersey.

 

Yes, just like the now-express buses that go there. It could even be the ...

[Roadcruiser1]

Then the line would become a nightmare. You would also have to extend the to Lower Manhattan to reach the tunnels portals.

[NX Express]

Then the line would become a nightmare. You would also have to extend the to Lower Manhattan to reach the tunnels portals.

 

No, it could be the thing via Secaucus, but it would make no NJ stops due to crowding.

[Roadcruiser1]

Then you would be running the for 5 miles to Secaucus then you would have to send the for 10+ miles to reach Staten Island it just isn't worth it.

[NX Express]

Then you would be running the for 5 miles to Secaucus then you would have to send the for 10+ miles to reach Staten Island it just isn't worth it.

 

I said it wrong...here's what I meant.

It wouldn't go via the Lincoln Tunnel (obviously) but it's close enough.

Don't quote the map please:

[GMAPS]<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=W+34th+St+%26+11th+Ave,+New+York,+10001&daddr=40.7664173,-74.0173198+to:staten+island&geocode=FUXibQIdv9GW-ykhG-KMtFnCiTEqGhU_0kEsAw%3BFdELbgId2ZWW-ymFYmddMVjCiTFrM6scRr9sKg%3BFQ5BawIdLJGU-ynn1PR570XCiTF4vLo0hR8nUA&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=12&via=1&sll=40.762861,-74.026566&sspn=0.151343,0.220757&ie=UTF8&ll=40.696258,-74.087677&spn=0.364419,0.583649&z=10&output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=embed&saddr=W+34th+St+%26+11th+Ave,+New+York,+10001&daddr=40.7664173,-74.0173198+to:staten+island&geocode=FUXibQIdv9GW-ykhG-KMtFnCiTEqGhU_0kEsAw%3BFdELbgId2ZWW-ymFYmddMVjCiTFrM6scRr9sKg%3BFQ5BawIdLJGU-ynn1PR570XCiTF4vLo0hR8nUA&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=12&via=1&sll=40.762861,-74.026566&sspn=0.151343,0.220757&ie=UTF8&ll=40.696258,-74.087677&spn=0.364419,0.583649&z=10" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>[/GMAPS]

[Fresh Pond]

People were posting at 4 A.M.?

 

Lol I always post around that time...I sleep during the day, work at night, and post here late nights

[GojiMet86]

Lol I always post around that time...I sleep during the day, work at night, and post here late nights

 

Ever try going a day without sleeping? I did once, but I think I took a small nap around 4 or 6 a.m.

[metsfan]

My record is 3 sets of 3 and a half days awake, with 4 hours of sleep in between. by the end i was not doing so well, so i slept an entire day and was right back on my normal sleep schedule.

 

In any case, HBLR is not going to go far into staten island, at the very most it will stop at 5th street in bayonne and a jointly funded/operated line would go over the bridge.

 

Extending the subway out of ny is out of the question, so stop talking about it.

 

To extend HBLR into staten island you will need to not physically connect it to anything else as it is light rail and is restricted from running on FRA tracks. You also need more LRV, a yard in staten island, and somehow expand the ROW to 2 tracks between 22nd and 8th streets, because 1 just isn't going to cut it.

 

I still think a short and simple bridge connector line would work better than extending some long line over the bridge. Combine that with north shore service be it BRT or FRA compatible light rail, and that other new line down the west central part of the island.

 

- A

[SubwayGuy]

Well as stated previously no tunnel is going to be built from Lower Manhattan to Staten Island that would cost upwards to about 6-10 billion easily

and 5 miles across the bay far the easiest way is defiantly through brooklyn.

Now what ever gets extended can run via the old North shore line and just connect to the SIR for SI riders heading south

 

Running something to connect with SIR does not make operational sense, so that should not happen.

 

That said, you're right. What I posted won't happen. I just made my post to illustrate what a suitable proposal would involve. 6 to 10 billion dollars is money that we absolutely don't have and I know it won't happen. And that's a conservative estimate for what it would take to do all that.

 

But even 37 billiion dollars (the estimated cost of full length SAS and a general estimate of 20 billion to construct everything in my post) is a drop in the bucket when you think of how much money was spent on unnecessary war and some of the more frivolous things government has wasted money on the last 30 years. My point is we could HAVE something like that if not for the incompetence of our elected leaders (both parties) and the general illiteracy of the voting public.

 

The federal deficit (not the budget deficit...the ACTUAL total deficit) is 13 TRILLION dollars. Think of all the worthwhile domestic projects that could have been built with that money, much of it wasted giving tax breaks to the rich or funding wars to "improve" nations we shouldn't care about. And Osama still isn't dead.

[SIR North Shore]

A few times that I rode the S89, I managed to catch the express "Bayonne Flyer" on the HBLR. They could have those run all the way to Staten Island and the locals terminate in NJ.

 

Check out how close the 8th Street station is to the Bayonne Bridge and also tail tracks:

 

[GMAPS]<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=avenue+C+%26+north+st&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Avenue+C+%26+North+St,+Bayonne,+Hudson,+New+Jersey+07002&gl=us&ei=ElXoTMO2I4G78gao-syiDQ&oi=geocode_result&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&t=h&ll=40.654833,-74.12908&spn=0.002849,0.00456&z=17&iwloc=A&output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=avenue+C+%26+north+st&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Avenue+C+%26+North+St,+Bayonne,+Hudson,+New+Jersey+07002&gl=us&ei=ElXoTMO2I4G78gao-syiDQ&oi=geocode_result&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&t=h&ll=40.654833,-74.12908&spn=0.002849,0.00456&z=17&iwloc=A&source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>[/GMAPS]

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[SIR North Shore]

From what I read, they're not looking to replace the Bayonne Bridge but raise it 65ft.

[Roadcruiser1]

That would make it too steep for any train. Only a Light Rail car can make it up such a grade.

[BJSm]

That would make it too steep for any train. Only a Light Rail car can make it up such a grade.

 

Luckily, HBLR is light rail.

 

Best solution for Staten Island is an extension of the SIRR to 4th Ave/59th St in Brooklyn for an easy transfer to the subway system. And maybe a second stop at 4th Ave/36th St to encourage some to take the instead of overcrowding the .

 

Ideally, PATH would extend all the way down to Bayonne and then into Staten Island, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

[checkmatechamp13]

(To everybody in general):

 

Here is a copy of the Phase II study of the West Shore Light Rail: http://www.siedc.org/images/PDF/WSLRPhaseII_FINALREPORT.pdf

 

If you think about it, it could be built rather cheaply if it is built into the median of the MLK, SIE, and WSE expressways.

 

Here is te page with information about the project: http://www.siedc.org/Capital-Projects/west-shore-light-rail

 

Anybody who wants the Phase I study can send me a Private Message and I will forward it to them.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[4P3607]

okay theres one main problem to address w/ having an NYCTA line go to S.I.: The Platforms on the (SIR) are 4 cars long (300 Ft). All NYCTA lines are 480 Ft-600 Feet long (8/10 60 ft cars, 8 75 foot cars, or 10/11 51 foot cars (IRT)) (excluding the ). Unless they put the to S.I., they will have to extend the platforms.

 

here are some possible trains that could go to S.I.:

- it would take a long time, but re-renovate S. Ferry (to the slant like rector street on the R), send it under the water

-Have the go to S.I.: Just Like the going to Far Rock. & Lefferts Bl, Have the go to bay Ridge & S.I.

-Put back the , send it to S.I. & Forget about the <R>.

-extend the (SIR) to Whitehall St, or Bklyn.

-I dunno if this is possible, but take the after 95 street and extend it to S.I. via the bridge or the tunnel.

-Take the , have 2 services w/ an orange & a yellow D, and extend the yellow D over the bridge or a new tunnel.

 

I will have more, If I think of more. I am not trying to Foam. Im just giving provisions for the S.I.R. extended.

 

or as I prefer, leave the (SIR) alone, & have a bus go over the bridge from S.I. to Bklyn.

[East New York]

okay theres one main problem to address w/ having an NYCTA line go to S.I.: The Platforms on the (SIR) are 4 cars long (300 Ft). All NYCTA lines are 480 Ft-600 Feet long (8/10 60 ft cars, 8 75 foot cars, or 10/11 51 foot cars (IRT)) (excluding the ). Unless they put the to S.I., they will have to extend the platforms.

 

here are some possible trains that could go to S.I.:

- it would take a long time, but re-renovate S. Ferry (to the slant like rector street on the R), send it under the water

-Have the go to S.I.: Just Like the going to Far Rock. & Lefferts Bl, Have the go to bay Ridge & S.I.

-Put back the , send it to S.I. & Forget about the <R>.

-extend the (SIR) to Whitehall St, or Bklyn.

-I dunno if this is possible, but take the after 95 street and extend it to S.I. via the bridge or the tunnel.

-Take the , have 2 services w/ an orange & a yellow D, and extend the yellow D over the bridge or a new tunnel.

 

I will have more, If I think of more. I am not trying to Foam. Im just giving provisions for the S.I.R. extended.

 

or as I prefer, leave the (SIR) alone, & have a bus go over the bridge from S.I. to Bklyn.

 

If they did ever build a line to Staten Island, it would not run on any part of the SIR, as it is a railroad, and not a subway. The only way it would, is if the SIR itself was extended to Manhattan. But I highly doubt that will ever happen. It would be really hard to exend the line past the Ferry terminal anyway, just because of how it is built.

[Blatherskite]

Ok. I need to get on here for a couple of reasons. Correct the misinformation and guesses most of you are making as fact. And also because of roadcruiser1.

 

Roadcruiser1, seriously. You need to get out of the house, get a life, or get committed into a mental ward. You've been a member here for 5 months, and you already have 707 posts. I've been here 11 months and have less than half the posts you do. You post 4.77 times a day on average. That means you have days when you must be posting 40 times. Enough. You seriously have problems. You spend your entire time drawing up subway maps as if anyone cares. You actually think people think you are cool doing it. You are not. You are deeply disturbed, especially how you start insulting anyone that challenges you on your make believe subway plans.

 

Now to address the misinformation. Subway tubes are not built under the floor of the body of water they go through. They are bult on top of the floor. They take each piece of the tunnel and place it on top of the floor, then they put each piece together, and when that is done they pressurize it, taking all the water out. They then finally put mud over it, but there is no digging involved going down under to go under the floor of the body of water the tube is passing through.

 

The 1 train cannot go to Staten Island from the South Ferry station for 2 reasons. 1. There is a very large dip in New York Harbor, and a tube cannot not be put there to hang over it. it is not possible. I'm sure there might be a way, but you will need a whole lot more than 3 billion dollars to make it work. Even if the dip weren't there, you still would not be able to build a tube there from South Ferry. This is the 2nd reason. You need to start declining a lot earlier if you are going under water to the floor because a train cannot go down at a crazy angle. It has to be gradual. Think about the N train going to Queens. Why no 1 avenue station for the N but the L has one? Alphabet city is the reason for this. A lot more land east of 1 Avenue to gradually go down hill for the tube. If the 1 tracks were used to go to SI, a train would have to have a spur built around Rector street or a little later and start declining from there.

 

The 1st reason is also the reason why the R train cannot just cut west and go to Staten Island from 95 street or 59 street for that matter. The R would need to cut sharply to the east first, then cut sharply again to go west to get enough space to decline gradually. There isn't enough land to do this and have the tunnel at the right place.

 

The only real way to have a train from SI to go to Manhattan without hitting BK is to go through NJ. For a BK train to go to SI, you would have to build a spur from Ft Hamilton Parkway, or 8 Avenue on the N and then have it start going underground immediately to hit the tube to go to Staten Island. A transfer could be possible at the 59 street station, but that train station transfer going to SI would be very deep underground like the F Stations in Roosevelt Island and Lexington Avenue. They are deep because the train needs to go under the east river, so it has to decline early to get that deep and stay deep enough to continue under water from Roosevelt Island. Another possible spur could be from The Bay Parkway station on the D adding a few stations until it can transfer to the 95 Street R station, and then hit a tube to SI. Again, that would be a station that would be very deep underground.

 

I hope I cleared this up for you guys. Now if you are going to speculate, speculate something that is possible. It won't be that easy having a train go to SI from Manhattan or BK. That's why we don't have one.

 

Oh, and the R can't take the bridge because of the same reason for the tube. It needs a lot of space to have an incline to make it up the bridge at that angle.

 

Also, the C train in the 1980's used to hit Queens, BK, Manhattan, and BX in the 1980's so the 4 boroughs being impossible argument holds no merit.

[INDman]

Ok.

 

Now to address the misinformation. Subway tubes are not built under the floor of the body of water they go through. They are bult on top of the floor. They take each piece of the tunnel and place it on top of the floor, then they put each piece together, and when that is done they pressurize it, taking all the water out. They then finally put mud over it, but there is no digging involved going down under to go under the floor of the body of water the tube is passing through.

 

 

What your saying may be true for some tunnels but the IND East River Tubes and the Harlem River tubes of the IRT are under the floor of the river. Specifically, the Rutger Street tube of the line was built using the shield method to dig through and hold back the muck of the bottom of the East River as the steel rings were built behind it forming the tunnel.

[LRG]

Thanks for your post PhraiserCrane. I do remember we were talking about this some time ago about that dip in NY Harbor. So yeah, I'll agree on the matters that a rail link between Manhattan and Staten Island may not be feasible engineering-wise, especially with South Ferry as it's too far up from the bottom of the harbor.

[Gotham Bus Co]

Staten Island should get first crack at $3 billion in federal transportation funding that Mayor Bloomberg would like to see used to extend the No. 7 subway line to New Jersey, state Sen. Diane Savino said.

 

There's one fatal flaw in her logic... If Staten Islanders get direct subway access to the rest of the city, then the rest of the city gets direct subway access to Staten Island. Do Staten Islanders really want that??