Messino Posted March 31, 2011 Share #26 Posted March 31, 2011 Like the Russians in Brighton Beach.... I know people who live in Kew Gardens / Forest hills. Spending time there over the past 15 years Ive been seeing them get out of Lexus cars, have the same Fur / Mink coats and pay for the food with the benefits cards... I know people who work at the offices who are so frustrated because others who work there actually coach people who come in on how to "Qualify for benefits" So this is why I say, there is only really a minority of welfare receipients who actully need it and dont abuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 31, 2011 Share #27 Posted March 31, 2011 We need to take care about who we call "leaches." Stereotypes reduce real social issues into cliches. While the workfare plan seems sound, it has unseen repercussions. As one small example, I know of a single mother on welfare who was studying nursing and had to drop out of her community college to satisfy her workfare assignment. Instead of having a taxpaying employee, we have someone who is still struggling in poverty. The Reagan vision of the "welfare queen" is so exaggerated and out of touch with reality. The truth is that 50% of NYC households have yearly incomes of less than $30,000 which is below the federal standard. Contrast this with the 90,000 NYC households with incomes in excess of $3.5 million. Moreover, it will take years before we have an economy that can support full employment. With layoffs and hiring freezes pending in the public sector, we can expect a lot more hard-working citizens to need public assistance in the coming weeks and months ahead. The City and the State should be looking at creating living wage jobs rather than unloading thousands of public employees into an economy that cannot absorb them. The MTA may very well be using the very workers they're putting out into the street! The median household income is about $51,000, so that means that 50% earn less than $51,000, not $30,000. Still, the cost of living is higher in NYC than in other cities. I agree with the other points you've made. Yes! If they can't find a job, we should give them work, not just pay them from nowhere. Clean subways, sweep sidewalks, shovel snow, whatever labor we need. Even if we increase their welfare payments it isn't as costly as hiring workers. Yes, but if they have a legitimate reason for not working (if they're going to school, have a low-paying job already, etc) Yeah right. The people IN NYC use the welfare system to sit on their fat asses and stay at home instead of work. The majority of people on welfare in NYC are on it because they are lazy or just dont want to work or are scamming the system for extra money. Its only a minority of the welfare receipients that actully NEED it! Sure there are some good people out there that are on welfare who are trying hard and mean well, but the MAJORITY of them are scumbags who sit and live for free. Same said for a man who drives to his building in the projects passing through wits a Rolls Royce or Bentley. The fact that there are people who are abusing the system sickens me, but that else is new, it's been happening for years.... 70-80% of the people in the projects don't even own a car, let alone a Bentley or Rolls Royce (the number is higher for projects closer to Manhattan, and lower for projects further out). I'm sure that in those 80% of the people, a good number of them need whatever benefits they are receiving. I know people who live in Kew Gardens / Forest hills. Spending time there over the past 15 years Ive been seeing them get out of Lexus cars, have the same Fur / Mink coats and pay for the food with the benefits cards... I know people who work at the offices who are so frustrated because others who work there actually coach people who come in on how to "Qualify for benefits" So this is why I say, there is only really a minority of welfare receipients who actully need it and dont abuse it. So what about the people in Brownsville or Morrisania who walk or take public transportation to get to the supermarket, and pay with food stamps? Any time there is any sort of benefit given out, there are always going to be people who abuse it, and the government knows that. But as the saying goes, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater: You can't tell the 80% of the people who need welfare that they can't get it because of the 20% who abuse the system. It would be nice if they could find out who is abusing their benefits and revoke them, but a crackdown like that often costs more money than it would to just accept that there are scammers out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdi919 Posted March 31, 2011 Share #28 Posted March 31, 2011 bottom line is train crews did not like them at terminals. if they want to put them in stations then they will have to pay someone to watch them. so its not totally free for mta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted March 31, 2011 Share #29 Posted March 31, 2011 We need to take care about who we call "leaches." Stereotypes reduce real social issues into cliches. While the workfare plan seems sound, it has unseen repercussions. As one small example, I know of a single mother on welfare who was studying nursing and had to drop out of her community college to satisfy her workfare assignment. Instead of having a taxpaying employee, we have someone who is still struggling in poverty. The Reagan vision of the "welfare queen" is so exaggerated and out of touch with reality. The truth is that 50% of NYC households have yearly incomes of less than $30,000 which is below the federal standard. Contrast this with the 90,000 NYC households with incomes in excess of $3.5 million. Moreover, it will take years before we have an economy that can support full employment. With layoffs and hiring freezes pending in the public sector, we can expect a lot more hard-working citizens to need public assistance in the coming weeks and months ahead. The City and the State should be looking at creating living wage jobs rather than unloading thousands of public employees into an economy that cannot absorb them. The MTA may very well be using the very workers they're putting out into the street! I don't have first-hand experience like you do, but I do remember being introduced and talking to the people who were running the program around 2003. They were good people who were dedicated. They gave me the impression that the program was working well. I guess the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-Bx-718 Posted April 1, 2011 Share #30 Posted April 1, 2011 bottom line is train crews did not like them at terminals. if they want to put them in stations then they will have to pay someone to watch them. so its not totally free for mta. Well I can't say my experience with the wep workers on stations was as bad as yours. In fact it was the complete opposite. I would see them clean things on the station not even CTA's would clean, and at a lot faster pace and more throughly. The only problem I had with the program was letting them get a full CTA position after a certain amount of time w/o taking a civil service exam. Even though their title was under labor class which means they weren't civil service they still got the same benefits and pay rate as civil service CTA's. And what I also thought was wrong is according to civil service law all labor class employees were suppose to get laid off first after provisionals. And none of them lost their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted April 1, 2011 Share #31 Posted April 1, 2011 70-80% of the people in the projects don't even own a car, let alone a Bentley or Rolls Royce (the number is higher for projects closer to Manhattan, and lower for projects further out). I'm sure that in those 80% of the people, a good number of them need whatever benefits they are receiving. You'll be amazed from what I've seen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted April 1, 2011 Share #32 Posted April 1, 2011 You'll be amazed from what I've seen.... When im deadheading, I pass a couple projects and the cars I see coming out all the time isnt something you would expect to see. I mean if you see a hood rat with no hair and pajamas on driving a Acura TSX....getting free money :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 1, 2011 Share #33 Posted April 1, 2011 You'll be amazed from what I've seen.... But still, compare the number of people walking to the parking lots in the projects to the number of people waiting for a bus near the projects (or walking to the subway if there is a station nearby). I'm sure there are some people who own cars without the government knowing, but I'm sure those are the really shoddy cars. Its probably pretty hard to hide a $40,000 car from the government when you are applying to get into public housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted April 1, 2011 Share #34 Posted April 1, 2011 But still, compare the number of people walking to the parking lots in the projects to the number of people waiting for a bus near the projects (or walking to the subway if there is a station nearby). I'm sure there are some people who own cars without the government knowing, but I'm sure those are the really shoddy cars. Its probably pretty hard to hide a $40,000 car from the government when you are applying to get into public housing. You are wrong. It really easy since they dont always buy these cars or lease them under their name. Not only that, they dont need a nice car to be scamming the welfare system. They use the money for other things as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 1, 2011 Share #35 Posted April 1, 2011 Its probably pretty hard to hide a $40,000 car from the government when you are applying to get into public housing. You are wrong. Haha, and you once called me naive, Messino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted April 1, 2011 Share #36 Posted April 1, 2011 Haha, and you once called me naive, Messino. Eh we all make mistakes heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share #37 Posted April 1, 2011 But still, compare the number of people walking to the parking lots in the projects to the number of people waiting for a bus near the projects (or walking to the subway if there is a station nearby). I'm sure there are some people who own cars without the government knowing, but I'm sure those are the really shoddy cars. Its probably pretty hard to hide a $40,000 car from the government when you are applying to get into public housing. And like Messino said, these folks are very good at scamming the system and getting away with it. Some folks even come here already set up to get food stamps even though they have plenty of financial means to support themselves because they come from countries with crazy political situations or whatever. There needs to be a crackdown on this BS because the only ones paying for the fraud are us taxpayers... :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share #38 Posted April 1, 2011 When im deadheading, I pass a couple projects and the cars I see coming out all the time isnt something you would expect to see. I mean if you see a hood rat with no hair and pajamas on driving a Acura TSX....getting free money :mad: I mean the project folks have it better than us working folks. My street needs to be badly repaved from the winter we had and then I go up to catch the X10 there by the Todt Hill projects and they've got nice paved streets and sidewalks, nice new bus shelters and the works. I'm starting to wonder what I put myself in tons of student loan debt for when I could just be scamming the system and living the life in the projects. LOL They don't have to work so they get to sleep in late. Meanwhile, I'm up at 07:00 starting my day and sometimes getting in at 23:00... And I also do notice that none of the cars parked around there look that shabby either... Makes you wonder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdi919 Posted April 1, 2011 Share #39 Posted April 1, 2011 i know a guy that owns a real estate business and lives in a million dollar home. he brought his wife and family over from india and has all of them collecting wellfare, food stamps and medicade. isnt this country great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted April 2, 2011 Share #40 Posted April 2, 2011 i know a guy that owns a real estate business and lives in a million dollar home. he brought his wife and family over from india and has all of them collecting wellfare, food stamps and medicade. isnt this country great? This "country is great" if you and others REPORT these abuses so that people in need get the safety net we pay taxes for. Personally, I find it very difficult to believe that welfare cheating is as rampant as some posters seem to posit. As Mike Gerald said, it is impossible to know everyone's situation and no one is providing actual statistics to corroborate his claims. What we do know is that welfare is a finite commodity limited to just a few years within one's lifetime and people are held accountable to "earn" their sustenence if they're healthy. As for the MTA, we already saw what happens when layoffs occur and deferred maintenance becomes standard operating procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted April 2, 2011 Share #41 Posted April 2, 2011 i cant believe they are bringing this back. let me give you a few facts about having wep workers as cleaners. 1. the mta cleaner that has to watch them gets a extra dollar a hour. 2. most of them dont do anything but stand there. 3. most of the women try to hook up with a mta guy because all they see is atm. 4. they steal. many lunch's and food from crew room concession stands were stolen by wep workers. 5. there was a few of them trying to live in the locker rooms at the terminals. they were more of a headache then benefit. it got so bad we had them banned from the crew room at pelham. i hope they dont bring this back. I do remember that when I had a picked job up there. I also remember one throwing herself at me at Woodlawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted April 2, 2011 Share #42 Posted April 2, 2011 This "country is great" if you and others REPORT these abuses so that people in need get the safety net we pay taxes for. Personally, I find it very difficult to believe that welfare cheating is as rampant as some posters seem to posit. As Mike Gerald said, it is impossible to know everyone's situation and no one is providing actual statistics to corroborate his claims. What we do know is that welfare is a finite commodity limited to just a few years within one's lifetime and people are held accountable to "earn" their sustenence if they're healthy. As for the MTA, we already saw what happens when layoffs occur and deferred maintenance becomes standard operating procedure. Why is it so hard to believe? In NYC welfare abuse runs rampant. Its not just people living in the projects and the Russians.. Pretty much any foreigner who comes here to live gets it even if they dont need it, food stamps/benefits and medicaid are abused like a red headed stepchild. 43 MILLION people in America are on welfare. 14% of Americas population receive foodstamps alone!..I can guarantee you atleast 1/3 of them are cheating the system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 2, 2011 Share #43 Posted April 2, 2011 You are wrong. It really easy since they dont always buy these cars or lease them under their name. Not only that, they dont need a nice car to be scamming the welfare system. They use the money for other things as well. But you are still missing my point that, even by observations, you see a lot more people walking to the bus and subway lines that travel near a particular NYCHA development vs. people walking to their cars parked on the street or in the parking lots. I mean the project folks have it better than us working folks. My street needs to be badly repaved from the winter we had and then I go up to catch the X10 there by the Todt Hill projects and they've got nice paved streets and sidewalks, nice new bus shelters and the works. I'm starting to wonder what I put myself in tons of student loan debt for when I could just be scamming the system and living the life in the projects. LOL They don't have to work so they get to sleep in late. Meanwhile, I'm up at 07:00 starting my day and sometimes getting in at 23:00... And I also do notice that none of the cars parked around there look that shabby either... Makes you wonder... You have to consider that the surrounding area is relatively well-off considering the fact that there are housing projects in the area, so part of that could be because of the people in the neighborhood. Have you gone in the opposite direction to the West Brighton Houses and seen the condition of the infrastructure in that area? Also, you have to consider the fact that DOT provides those services based on the number of people who use them. A street filled with apartment buildings means that more people will be using both the roads and buses, so it is a higher priority than an area filled with houses. Why is it so hard to believe? In NYC welfare abuse runs rampant. Its not just people living in the projects and the Russians.. Pretty much any foreigner who comes here to live gets it even if they dont need it, food stamps/benefits and medicaid are abused like a red headed stepchild. 43 MILLION people in America are on welfare. 14% of Americas population receive foodstamps alone!..I can guarantee you atleast 1/3 of them are cheating the system! No, not all foreigners come here to cheat the system. When my family came here, we didn't apply for welfare, and we have friends who also came here and are able to live without public assistance. As others have mentioned, you are limited as to how long you can collect benefits for. If somebody takes it now when they don't need it, they won't be able to collect benefits if they need them later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share #44 Posted April 3, 2011 You have to consider that the surrounding area is relatively well-off considering the fact that there are housing projects in the area, so part of that could be because of the people in the neighborhood. Have you gone in the opposite direction to the West Brighton Houses and seen the condition of the infrastructure in that area? Also, you have to consider the fact that DOT provides those services based on the number of people who use them. A street filled with apartment buildings means that more people will be using both the roads and buses, so it is a higher priority than an area filled with houses. No, not all foreigners come here to cheat the system. When my family came here, we didn't apply for welfare, and we have friends who also came here and are able to live without public assistance. As others have mentioned, you are limited as to how long you can collect benefits for. If somebody takes it now when they don't need it, they won't be able to collect benefits if they need them later. Seeing that it is us taxpayers subsidizing them, I say my street should take priority over theirs. Also, you are very naive about people scamming the system. All that you say is in theory because there are still people that are scamming the system that don't need the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 3, 2011 Share #45 Posted April 3, 2011 1) What about the regular homes in the area 2) I didn't say there wasn't fraud. I just said that there isn't as much as people are making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share #46 Posted April 3, 2011 1) What about the regular homes in the area 2) I didn't say there wasn't fraud. I just said that there isn't as much as people are making it out to be. What about em? I'm not saying they didn't need Schimdts Lane repaved because it needed to be repaved badly, but my street is in far worse condition, especially after this winter. Craters are now forming all over the street. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza123d Posted April 4, 2011 Share #47 Posted April 4, 2011 If President Obama put a plan to get the economy on track, he would supply jobs and employment in the public district by pulling form the unemployment area. They work for their unemployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOB2RTO Posted April 5, 2011 Share #48 Posted April 5, 2011 There are some lazy welfare recipients, who need to be put to work. Then there are some, who lost their jobs of many years, paid taxes during their working years, so others on welfare could get a check, and now they need what they paid for others to have......... MTA did have this WEP program before, and after 1 year, the WEP workers were hired by TA as cleaners. That is why TA stop hiring cleaners through MTA. They used WEP workers instead....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted April 5, 2011 Share #49 Posted April 5, 2011 These "welfare to work" programs do nothing good for anyone. Takes parents away from their kids, and unrealistic goals on people who may not be emotionally or mentally capable to carry out such tasks. Basically it's a bit worse than slavery, holding aspirational expectations for people unable to comply with the conditions. The solution is to eliminate the minimum wage as we have it set up now, something that has not been realistically raised with things like inflation & cost of living, and require employers to provide a living wage to all employees unless the employee opts out, for example a retired older person just looking to have something to do for a few extra bucks a week, or people under age 18. Just to clarify, here in PA the max benefit for an individual is $4,980 per year. That's 200 in food stamps and 215 in cash assistance per month. In other words 12 people cost as much as a higher living wage (68k/yr), or a little bit more than 2 base living wages (33k/yr). Being on public assistance, yea, it's not something anyone would ever actually want. The medical care/dental etc is dicy, lot of hacks that take on as many patients as possible to get that $ from the state, often performing procedures and doing things that cost less than what the state is willing to pay & pocketing the rest. Then you got food shopping. Not sure if any of you have been to a grocery store lately, but prices are at a point where i'm having to decide to not eat the last few days at the end of the month, or buy food that would have me at the dentist & on the toilet & awake all night. Cash assistance. Yep. Very aptly named, assistance, very much not "cash solution". At the end of each month after bills, i have a grand total of a few coins or less. Yea, i'm really living large, i have a few coins to jingle in my pocket so i can sometimes pretend i have more money that i somehow left in my other pants at home. There are people who abuse the system, no denying that, but why make the needy suffer because of a few bad apples? Makes no sense. So, as you here read that & comment, remember that having a paycheck is a gift. Being on public assistance is a bare bones safety net, avoid it if you can. - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted April 5, 2011 Share #50 Posted April 5, 2011 These "welfare to work" programs do nothing good for anyone. Takes parents away from their kids, and unrealistic goals on people who may not be emotionally or mentally capable to carry out such tasks. Basically it's a bit worse than slavery, holding aspirational expectations for people unable to comply with the conditions. The solution is to eliminate the minimum wage as we have it set up now, something that has not been realistically raised with things like inflation & cost of living, and require employers to provide a living wage to all employees unless the employee opts out, for example a retired older person just looking to have something to do for a few extra bucks a week, or people under age 18. Just to clarify, here in PA the max benefit for an individual is $4,980 per year. That's 200 in food stamps and 215 in cash assistance per month. In other words 12 people cost as much as a higher living wage (68k/yr), or a little bit more than 2 base living wages (33k/yr). Being on public assistance, yea, it's not something anyone would ever actually want. The medical care/dental etc is dicy, lot of hacks that take on as many patients as possible to get that $ from the state, often performing procedures and doing things that cost less than what the state is willing to pay & pocketing the rest. Then you got food shopping. Not sure if any of you have been to a grocery store lately, but prices are at a point where i'm having to decide to not eat the last few days at the end of the month, or buy food that would have me at the dentist & on the toilet & awake all night. Cash assistance. Yep. Very aptly named, assistance, very much not "cash solution". At the end of each month after bills, i have a grand total of a few coins or less. Yea, i'm really living large, i have a few coins to jingle in my pocket so i can sometimes pretend i have more money that i somehow left in my other pants at home. There are people who abuse the system, no denying that, but why make the needy suffer because of a few bad apples? Makes no sense. So, as you here read that & comment, remember that having a paycheck is a gift. Being on public assistance is a bare bones safety net, avoid it if you can. - A You make a valid good point,but some young women out here have kids just to get assistance and a roof over their heads.Welfare abuse was a piece of cake back in the 70s and 80s.Almost,if not everyone can apply and get accepted,but after all of the abusers and hacks exploited the loopholes,now the Gov't is cracking down.Some call this exploitation,I call it a second chance to redeem themselves.As someone mentioned earlier in the thread as well about this being a way to get around the union is correct.Slowly the big wigs at the 5th avenue HQ is brainstorming subtle ideas on de-unionizing the .In other words the are hiring scab workers.A practice that has been in the work pages for years,so this isn't an entirely new concept per se'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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