checkmatechamp13 Posted April 11, 2011 Share #1 Posted April 11, 2011 Should local buses have fold-up seats similar to those on the NTT trains? It would probably help on routes where service is very peaky, and the MTA doesn't want to add any more buses during rush hour, because of the costs involved in peaky service patterns. Come to think about it, I think the best way would be if all of the seats were bench seats, rather than window seats, and those seats were capable of folding up. Lines that don't have a tendancy to be underutilized could use the buses that are currently used, since there is no point in the additional capacity if it isn't needed: You might as well have the more comfortable arrangement. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted April 11, 2011 Share #2 Posted April 11, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted April 11, 2011 If it is rush hour, I doubt you're getting a seat anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #4 Posted April 12, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #5 Posted April 12, 2011 All local buses should have bench seating and stanchions, like subway cars, for the entire length, even up in the back. That increases capacity significantly. Fold up seating isn't necessary, because having a dedicated fleet/modification for lesser used routes is costly and difficult to maintain. However, routes already having dedicated fleets (M16/34, SBS) can use fold up seats if that's desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted April 12, 2011 Share #6 Posted April 12, 2011 Definitely been there one time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 12, 2011 Share #7 Posted April 12, 2011 Selfishly: no, because I would like to get a seat if I can get one. HF buses should be left alone in general. I hate seats that faces the interior of the bus, I prefer seats facing the front. [i hate the current seating arrangement of the O7s that started with the 3500s from now SC]. For the NGs and Lfs in general, you may as well make the front section standees only since no one moves to the back. But to do that, the back section should have the 2x2 seats [something LIB has]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4P3607 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #8 Posted April 12, 2011 We already have fold-up seats for Wheelchairs. Once when a wheelchair passenger got off the bus, since the bus was packed the driver didn't put the seat back down & created more standing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 12, 2011 Share #9 Posted April 12, 2011 No, he meant folding seats for the entire bus the way that pilot R160B had fold up seats in most of the cars. Re-read the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4P3607 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #10 Posted April 12, 2011 No, he meant folding seats for the entire bus the way that pilot R160B had fold up seats in most of the cars. Re-read the original post. ohh... I see. Well I guess the Wheelchair seating can be folded up during Rush hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted April 12, 2011 Share #11 Posted April 12, 2011 ohh... I see. Well I guess the Wheelchair seating can be folded up during Rush hours? And someone is just gonna pull it back down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #12 Posted April 12, 2011 I am going to say no, because the temptation to stuff too many passengers into the bus well beyond its design limits will be there. Plus, it doesn't work for the rear section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #13 Posted April 12, 2011 I agree with the others... I never support cutting services unless it is absolutely clear that other equal alternatives are available and in this case I have to say that the fold up chairs are a terrible idea. You have a lot of elderly people that ride and they do use the buses during rush hour. Now you would probably counter that and say that they could sit in the back, but we both know that is not happening, especially when some of them can barely get on the newer buses which don't even have steps in the front. In sum, I say don't give the any more ideas to reduce service. We're already packed like sardines as it is and for the buses that are empty in the back, there are plenty that are completely packed. If the bus gets crowded enough and people really want to get on, people will move to the back or be squashed to death. You've even admitted this yourself several times. Rather than talking about people not moving to the back, the question is why??? It isn't just because of laziness either. Some of it has to do with who generally sits in the back of the bus on certain local lines, but also how the back of the newer buses are designed. They're not really conducive for standing with the stupid steps and everything. Now, me for example, I ALWAYS sit in the back on the local buses in Manhattan, but you couldn't pay me to do that on the SI local buses. First off I just stand anyway since they're so dirty, but even so, I don't care for the crowd that sits in the back on the SI local buses. If you look at where most of the sh*t that jumps off on local buses on troubled lines, it tends to be in the back, so why bother putting yourself in a situation that you don't have to be in in the first place? Now when I'm on local bus lines in the city, people are civilized for the most part, so I have no need to even think about not sitting in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #14 Posted April 12, 2011 Definitely been there one time... Why exactly did the MTA abandon this scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #15 Posted April 12, 2011 Why exactly did the MTA abandon this scheme? Probably too many fatties riding. I mean they did that with the subway seats anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted April 12, 2011 Share #16 Posted April 12, 2011 So you're placing more priority on standees? You're failing to realize how stupid the general public is... They embark on a bus w/ all the seats folded up, and the first thought in their minds would be "what happened to the seats".... Not sure what you think would be accomplished by having fold-up seats on buses, regardless of the usage on whatever routes said buses would be ran on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #17 Posted April 12, 2011 So you're placing more priority on standees? You're failing to realize how stupid the general public is... They embark on a bus w/ all the seats folded up, and the first thought in their minds would be "what happened to the seats".... Not sure what you think would be accomplished by having fold-up seats on buses, regardless of the usage on whatever routes said buses would be ran on... More people could be picked up, thus meaning fewer people would be bypassed because of a lack of space. What he fails to realize is the distances that some folks travel on the local lines. If you were commuting over an hour on a local bus during the rush hour, you would not want to be standing the entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted April 12, 2011 I agree with the others... I never support cutting services unless it is absolutely clear that other equal alternatives are available and in this case I have to say that the fold up chairs are a terrible idea. You have a lot of elderly people that ride and they do use the buses during rush hour. Now you would probably counter that and say that they could sit in the back, but we both know that is not happening, especially when some of them can barely get on the newer buses which don't even have steps in the front. In sum, I say don't give the any more ideas to reduce service. We're already packed like sardines as it is and for the buses that are empty in the back, there are plenty that are completely packed. If the bus gets crowded enough and people really want to get on, people will move to the back or be squashed to death. You've even admitted this yourself several times. Rather than talking about people not moving to the back, the question is why??? It isn't just because of laziness either. Some of it has to do with who generally sits in the back of the bus on certain local lines, but also how the back of the newer buses are designed. They're not really conducive for standing with the stupid steps and everything. Now, me for example, I ALWAYS sit in the back on the local buses in Manhattan, but you couldn't pay me to do that on the SI local buses. First off I just stand anyway since they're so dirty, but even so, I don't care for the crowd that sits in the back on the SI local buses. If you look at where most of the sh*t that jumps off on local buses on troubled lines, it tends to be in the back, so why bother putting yourself in a situation that you don't have to be in in the first place? Now when I'm on local bus lines in the city, people are civilized for the most part, so I have no need to even think about not sitting in the back. And do you have any better ideas to save money? If service is reduced, but the savings are used to expand service in other areas, I don't see what is wrong with that. Like I said, I think much of it is just laziness. Even when there is a civilized crowd in the back, you see people standing just before that first step, refusing to move back. As far as people trying to get on, that's only going to happen if the bus opens up the doors. In that case, somebody can hold the door and force their way on. If nobody wants to get off, nobody waiting can get on. As far as seniors riding-many of them are forced to wait for several buses to pass by anyway, and hope somebody offers them a seat. At least with the fold-up seats, there is a chance the driver can let some seats down when an elderly person gets on. So you're placing more priority on standees? You're failing to realize how stupid the general public is... They embark on a bus w/ all the seats folded up, and the first thought in their minds would be "what happened to the seats".... Not sure what you think would be accomplished by having fold-up seats on buses, regardless of the usage on whatever routes said buses would be ran on... Standees take up less space than people who are seated. I agree about the stupidity of the public. Maybe there could be signs on the seats that are folded up to say: "Pull down to sit" or something like that. More people could be picked up, thus meaning fewer people would be bypassed because of a lack of space. What he fails to realize is the distances that some folks travel on the local lines. If you were commuting over an hour on a local bus during the rush hour, you would not want to be standing the entire time. Many of those folks aren't getting a seat anyway. Maybe once the bus empties out, the driver can pull down the seats to let the remaining people sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #19 Posted April 12, 2011 Definitely been there one time... This seating would be way more effective than the current seating pattern (and less annoying than having to fold the seats down). Of course, thats too easy for the MTA. Though I'd be interested to see how that could be done on a hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 12, 2011 Share #20 Posted April 12, 2011 Like I said, I think much of it is just laziness. Even when there is a civilized crowd in the back, you see people standing just before that first step, refusing to move back. It's not just the crowd in the back, but also those stupid steps. There is really no where to stand back there without standing with your crotch right in someone's face. It comes down to a poor design and the fact the aisles are way too narrow on those NGs. There is no where to stand without banging into someone unless you stand in the doorway there in the back as I do, so I don't have some douchebag constantly banging into me. I haven't used the NOVAs yet, but they're much better in terms of being able to stand comfortably in the aisle. If I were your height and size I probably would think they're fine because you can squeeze in just about anywhere, but at my height, (6'4" and roughly 210 lbs) I'm really not wild about standing back there. I only stand back there if I have no choice, otherwise I'm standing by the door so that I can get some air. I hate the fact that they make the damn windows so hard to open on these newer buses. Those Staten Island NG buses in particular are way too closed up and hot and they smell like @ss. LOL After a while if I have to go more than 10 minutes on them and it is crowded, I start to become hot as the air doesn't seem to circulate well on those buses. They were smart to get rid of those "cushioned" seats and go back to the plastic ones for hygenic reasons. And do you have any better ideas to save money? If service is reduced, but the savings are used to expand service in other areas, I don't see what is wrong with that. Like I said, I think much of it is just laziness. Even when there is a civilized crowd in the back, you see people standing just before that first step, refusing to move back. As far as people trying to get on, that's only going to happen if the bus opens up the doors. In that case, somebody can hold the door and force their way on. If nobody wants to get off, nobody waiting can get on. As far as seniors riding-many of them are forced to wait for several buses to pass by anyway, and hope somebody offers them a seat. At least with the fold-up seats, there is a chance the driver can let some seats down when an elderly person gets on. Standees take up less space than people who are seated. I agree about the stupidity of the public. Maybe there could be signs on the seats that are folded up to say: "Pull down to sit" or something like that. Many of those folks aren't getting a seat anyway. Maybe once the bus empties out, the driver can pull down the seats to let the remaining people sit. That seems like a waste of time. No B/O is going to want to have to keep stopping the bus to pull up seats and put them back down. His/her main focus is to drive the bus, not worry about seats. Aside from that you can't expect people to stand the whole trip. People wait for several buses to go by so that they CAN get a seat. Aside from that, the seats in the front are supposed to be given up if anyone else besides elderly people are sitting in them. Standees are not supposed to be the norm and for $2.25 people should at least be able to sit down. You're young, but when you get older and start working long hours, the last thing that you're going to want to do is to stand. Sunday night I got the last X1 and the bus was SRO by the time we got down by NYU there on Broadway. We had standees going the rest of the way and I can tell they were not in the mood for having to stand in that little aisle, but it was the last bus of the night so it was either that or make a thousand transfers via the subway, ferry and local bus, which would've taken forever. Standing for short distances is okay for those who are young and able to, but folks come on w/heavy bags and such and they need to be able to sit down. Mind you that this is coming from someone who stands on the subway and local bus for short distances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share #21 Posted April 13, 2011 It's not just the crowd in the back, but also those stupid steps. There is really no where to stand back there without standing with your crotch right in someone's face. It comes down to a poor design and the fact the aisles are way too narrow on those NGs. There is no where to stand without banging into someone unless you stand in the doorway there in the back as I do, so I don't have some douchebag constantly banging into me. I haven't used the NOVAs yet, but they're much better in terms of being able to stand comfortably in the aisle. If I were your height and size I probably would think they're fine because you can squeeze in just about anywhere, but at my height, (6'4" and roughly 210 lbs) I'm really not wild about standing back there. I only stand back there if I have no choice, otherwise I'm standing by the door so that I can get some air. I hate the fact that they make the damn windows so hard to open on these newer buses. Those Staten Island NG buses in particular are way too closed up and hot and they smell like @ss. LOL After a while if I have to go more than 10 minutes on them and it is crowded, I start to become hot as the air doesn't seem to circulate well on those buses. They were smart to get rid of those "cushioned" seats and go back to the plastic ones for hygenic reasons. That seems like a waste of time. No B/O is going to want to have to keep stopping the bus to pull up seats and put them back down. His/her main focus is to drive the bus, not worry about seats. Aside from that you can't expect people to stand the whole trip. People wait for several buses to go by so that they CAN get a seat. Aside from that, the seats in the front are supposed to be given up if anyone else besides elderly people are sitting in them. Standees are not supposed to be the norm and for $2.25 people should at least be able to sit down. You're young, but when you get older and start working long hours, the last thing that you're going to want to do is to stand. Sunday night I got the last X1 and the bus was SRO by the time we got down by NYU there on Broadway. We had standees going the rest of the way and I can tell they were not in the mood for having to stand in that little aisle, but it was the last bus of the night so it was either that or make a thousand transfers via the subway, ferry and local bus, which would've taken forever. Standing for short distances is okay for those who are young and able to, but folks come on w/heavy bags and such and they need to be able to sit down. Mind you that this is coming from someone who stands on the subway and local bus for short distances. So out of all of the people on the bus, nobody can fit in the back? Everybody is 6'4'' and will hit their head on the ceiling if they stand in the back? Plenty of older people working find ways of standing on the bus. They may prefer to sit, but I think that, during rush hour, they've basically given up hope of getting a seat and their biggest concern is getting on the bus and getting to work on time. I'm not sure how they do it on the R160s, but I'm sure they could do it the same way on the buses. I'm 99% sure it is all up to the passengers as to whether or not they want to leave the seats up. As far as people carrying packages, most of them can't get a seat anyway, and because of the fact that the seats take up more space, they have to let buses go by before they can even get on. I do agree about getting rid of cushioned seats being a good idea. Those seats can be pretty bad after a long rainstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoSpectacular Posted April 13, 2011 Share #22 Posted April 13, 2011 The high floor section on a semi-low floor bus is roughly (if not a little more) about the same height as a standard high floor platform, one thing I do notice about the high floor sections is that they're a little too narrow for our tastes by how the seats are positioned... the bench seats shouldn't stick out so much towards the center... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted April 13, 2011 Share #23 Posted April 13, 2011 Seats should be hard plastic no matter what, like the R160. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 13, 2011 Share #24 Posted April 13, 2011 So out of all of the people on the bus, nobody can fit in the back? Everybody is 6'4'' and will hit their head on the ceiling if they stand in the back? Plenty of older people working find ways of standing on the bus. They may prefer to sit, but I think that, during rush hour, they've basically given up hope of getting a seat and their biggest concern is getting on the bus and getting to work on time. I'm not sure how they do it on the R160s, but I'm sure they could do it the same way on the buses. I'm 99% sure it is all up to the passengers as to whether or not they want to leave the seats up. As far as people carrying packages, most of them can't get a seat anyway, and because of the fact that the seats take up more space, they have to let buses go by before they can even get on. I do agree about getting rid of cushioned seats being a good idea. Those seats can be pretty bad after a long rainstorm. Those going short distances won't mind as much, but those riding longer distances or those with ailments will want a seat. Hell some elderly people don't care where the seat is. If they see someone that is younger than them sitting, they'll ask the younger person if they can let them sit there and usually the younger person obliges. I've also seen younger folks volunteer their seats to older folks who wasn't expecting to be given a seat. The point is that it is a bad idea all around. And what happens if there aren't any buses for a long period of time? All you're going to have is people being crankier and more confrontations. You'll have people that will be pissed because they had to wait X amount of minutes for a bus and then they can't even sit down when several of them finally come because the seats are all up. As we've seen w/Select Bus Service, no matter how much info. is put out there, there will still be people that will not read about it and that will be confrontational about the process. On those hot summer days in the city when you're waiting for a local bus forever, there is nothing more relaxing than getting a seat with some air conditioning. People should expect some sort of level of comfort for riding, even at $2.25 and the least they can get is a seat if they really need one. Doing this would be putting the system back and we'd be looking more like a transit system in a 3rd world country where people are packed on like herd. :tdown: Like I said before, let's not give the more "brilliant" ideas to cut service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from Maspeth Posted April 13, 2011 Share #25 Posted April 13, 2011 Should local buses have fold-up seats similar to those on the NTT trains? It would probably help on routes where service is very peaky, and the MTA doesn't want to add any more buses during rush hour, because of the costs involved in peaky service patterns. Come to think about it, I think the best way would be if all of the seats were bench seats, rather than window seats, and those seats were capable of folding up. Lines that don't have a tendancy to be underutilized could use the buses that are currently used, since there is no point in the additional capacity if it isn't needed: You might as well have the more comfortable arrangement. Thoughts? The fold up seats on subway cars have not and will not be used. That idea permeated from the prior administration and this administration wants no part of it. Therefore forget about no seats on buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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