Roadcruiser1 Posted July 1, 2011 Share #76 Posted July 1, 2011 Let's see. (2010 US Census) Washington D.C. Population: 601,723 Population including metro areas: 5,580,000 New York City Population: 8,175,133 Population including metro areas: 18,897,109 In the end which city is larger and better Washington DC or New York City? New York City. Which city is bound to have more problems? New York City. Why would it be New York City? New York City is huge, and has a huge population which results in more problems. Why does the New York City Subway sometimes sees problems other cities doesn't see? New York City is huge, and the subway serves a massive population of nearly 19 million people in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted July 1, 2011 Share #77 Posted July 1, 2011 Ok ok time for me to chirp in on this. Sure we're not the best but we sure are 1 of the biggest and most complex. Look at it like this... 1. Where else can you go to all 4 corners of the city and back to where you started on 1 fare? 2. Where else can you literally stay on the subway for days/weeks/months on end (idk why would you do it in the 1st place lol) for only $2.25 3. Where else can you go into a train station that's 106 years old and still use it to this day 4. Where else have systems that been operating non-stop for 106 straight years? 5. Where else can you learn about different cultures just by riding 2 different subway lines? 6. Where else can you actually have live bands that play in subway stations? 7. Where else can you find entertainment on the train? Sure as hell not DC Metro Let's see. (2010 US Census) Washington D.C. Population: 601,723 Population including metro areas: 5,580,000 New York City Population: 8,175,133 Population including metro areas: 18,897,109 In the end which city is larger and better Washington DC or New York City? New York City. Which city is bound to have more problems? New York City. Why would it be New York City? New York City is huge, and has a huge population which results in more problems. Why does the New York City Subway sometimes sees problems other cities doesn't see? New York City is huge, and the subway serves a massive population of nearly 19 million people in the end. You know what I find crazy about that statement... 1. The total amount of people in DC & the metro area is about the same amount of people that just ride the subway here on a daily basis 2 the population of DC. Is about the same amount of people that live on Staten Island alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted July 1, 2011 Share #78 Posted July 1, 2011 Ok ok time for me to chirp in on this. Sure we're not the best but we sure are 1 of the biggest and most complex. Look at it like this... 1. Where else can you go to all 4 corners of the city and back to where you started on 1 fare? People can't even travel directly from Greenpoint to Astoria on the subway or from Flushing to the Bronx. 2. Where else can you literally stay on the subway for days/weeks/months on end (idk why would you do it in the 1st place lol) for only $2.25 Who does that? 3. Where else can you go into a train station that's 106 years old and still use it to this day Chances are that 106 year old station will smell like piss 4. Where else have systems that been operating non-stop for 106 straight years? That 106 year old system is falling apart. Look at the Culver Viaduct. 5. Where else can you learn about different cultures just by riding 2 different subway lines? And? The London Underground also has diverse ridership 6. Where else can you actually have live bands that play in subway stations? 7. Where else can you find entertainment on the train? I didn't ask for the entertainment. In fact, it often disturbs me. If I wanted entertainment I'd go to the Apollo Theatre. 1. The total amount of people in DC & the metro area is about the same amount of people that just ride the subway here on a daily basis 2 the population of DC. Is about the same amount of people that live on Staten Island alone Just because a system is large doesn't mean it can run like complete crap. There are systems larger than the NYC subway that are cleaner and more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 1, 2011 Share #79 Posted July 1, 2011 People can't even travel directly from Greenpoint to Astoria on the subway or from Flushing to the Bronx. Who does that? Chances are that 106 year old station will smell like piss That 106 year old system is falling apart. Look at the Culver Viaduct. And? The London Underground also has diverse ridership I didn't ask for the entertainment. In fact, it often disturbs me. If I wanted entertainment I'd go to the Apollo Theatre. Just because a system is large doesn't mean it can run like complete crap. There are systems larger than the NYC subway that are cleaner and more reliable. You make some very valid points. If we agreed with most of the folks in here, the subway system would be in a state of disrepair, which is pretty much where it is now anyway. I mean, let's not complain. The subway gets us from point A to point B, even though the system is riddled with signal problems, filthy and the train often runs faster than the "express" and train. Yeah, let's all smile and be happy because we have service that mirrors that of some third world countries because we only pay $2.25 and can ride on it for weeks and months at a time, which does nothing but encourage bums to use the subway as their personal house. lol That's actually part of the problem. Not exactly something to be proud of. A station like Chambers street on the is a disgrace. That station should be shut down and completely rehabbed. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen and an embarassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman1455 Posted July 1, 2011 Share #80 Posted July 1, 2011 The NYC Subway is eh... What more could be said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted July 1, 2011 Share #81 Posted July 1, 2011 I think it's about time I chimed in on the issue. Yes, there are many problems with the subway system and yes, there are many ways the can improve said system. However, it all comes down to the money and where they'll get it from for all the necessary system improvements. All the previous station rehabs and ADA improvements were paid for with the 2005-09 Capital Budget. Now the is saying they won't have any money for next year's capital program and are nearly begging Albany for enough money to get Second Avenue up to 96 St. If that's truly the case, where in the hell do you think they'll get the money for station improvements like the dungeon aka Chambers St (BMT), the various water-logged stations along the Crosstown line or the many other stations that are falling apart throughout the system? Concerning the overwhelming amount of timers added to the express lines, yes, some of them are quite unnecessary, but with the massive increase of persons on the tracks and people's sue-crazy attitude toward the , it's not that farfetched that they're trying to save their hides. On a similar note about the local trains being faster than their express counterparts, some of it is the effect of bad transit patterns (Broadway) or said timers on the line (Fulton Street/Central Park West), but for other lines like Lexington Avenue, it can't be helped. The line is running at the closest intervals as humanly possible and the trains are still overcrowded. Until some sort of Second Avenue line is built to alleviate the congestion or they figure out a way to run the trains at even closer intervals without having to shutter the line for something like CBTC (which we know isn't a viable option). As for the trashy stations, I'm not gonna defend the piss-poor cleaning practices of the maintenance crews because there really isn't much of an excuse. While some of the cleaners may have been let go as part of the recent job cuts, it's not as though the stations were all that clean prior to this economic crisis. Then you hear/read about some of the workers lounging about and half-assing their way to a relatively cushy paycheck for their work. But, like some people here here had stated, while there are quite a lot of things wrong with the subway system as well as the as a whole, there are also plenty of things right with this system. How many transit systems can you list where you can theoretically go from Wakefield in the northern part of the Bronx all the way to Far Rockaway in eastern Queens on one flat fare? How many can you name where not only do the trains run 24/7, but also at the frequency that New York's does? These questions, and many more that may or may not have been already stated, should be the basis of your comparisons to other systems across the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted July 1, 2011 Share #82 Posted July 1, 2011 You make some very valid points. If we agreed with most of the folks in here, the subway system would be in a state of disrepair, which is pretty much where it is now anyway. I doubt the NYC Subway is in disrepair today. Was the system in disrepair in late 9170s/1980s? Yes. But now? Certainty not. IIRC, there was a news article stating that subway breakdowns are at record lows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #83 Posted July 2, 2011 I doubt the NYC Subway is in disrepair today. Was the system in disrepair in late 9170s/1980s? Yes. But now? Certainty not. IIRC, there was a news article stating that subway breakdowns are at record lows. Well then what do you call Chambers St on the line?? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoking66 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #84 Posted July 2, 2011 You make some very valid points. If we agreed with most of the folks in here, the subway system would be in a state of disrepair, which is pretty much where it is now anyway. I mean, let's not complain. The subway gets us from point A to point B, even though the system is riddled with signal problems, filthy and the train often runs faster than the "express" and train. Yeah, let's all smile and be happy because we have service that mirrors that of some third world countries because we only pay $2.25 and can ride on it for weeks and months at a time, which does nothing but encourage bums to use the subway as their personal house. lol Even as part of "most of the folks in here," I agree that serious work needs to be done; we all do. No one said that the subway is just perfect as it is and doesn't need improvement. The NYC subway will ALWAYS need improvement and that's a fact. All we're saying is that for what it's worth and considering all the odds against it, the subway does a pretty nice job moving 5m+ people around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexis4Jersey Posted July 2, 2011 Share #85 Posted July 2, 2011 I wouldn't call our subway the best in the world but it's pretty much the LARGEST system out there. It's a good thing most of you who railfans today weren't around in the 1970s and 1980s because everything was a disaster. You'd have been mugged, robbed, shot, whatever could've happened had you brought a fancy film camera down there. Hell I know I wouldn't have! As slow as it's been, the MTA's track workers have been busting their asses while management has their heads up theirs. Yes, I'm talking to you white-collar guys sitting behind those pine desks in the office while your workers spend countless hours in the tunnels breathing in that fine steel dust... Its not the largest system , but it will always remain in the Top 10 along with Shanghai , Delhi , Tokyo , Paris , Berlin, and London. Its not a hybrid like those systems but its a decent system..... For it to be the Best system in the world , more Expansions and overhauling the inner core regional Railway system has to happen. Paris , London , and Berlin have regional Payroll taxes and they can expand and take care of there systems why can't NYC? Why is NYC not building other Rail options like Streetcars , Light Rail or restoring stations on the LIRR or MNRR. Overseas in Japan and other parts of Asia Rail fanners are pampered with special rooms and areas to fan , here there becoming frowned upon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #86 Posted July 2, 2011 Even as part of "most of the folks in here," I agree that serious work needs to be done; we all do. No one said that the subway is just perfect as it is and doesn't need improvement. The NYC subway will ALWAYS need improvement and that's a fact. All we're saying is that for what it's worth and considering all the odds against it, the subway does a pretty nice job moving 5m+ people around. Yeah well that's all fine and good but more needs to be done. The system is too fragile as it currently is and big innovations are needed in order for the system to be able to handle the growth in population, and further strain that will be put on the system going forward. It's simply not enough to be pleased with the fact that the system is able to move 5 million people around. My point is what is being done to address the future needs of subway riders? The system is improving and some aspects with new trains, but the trains are becoming dirtier, as are the stations, so you can certainly argue that for everything that the is doing right, they are doing several things wrong that completely overshadow the positives. I may sound harsh, but I see a very fragile subway system that is going to suffer tremendously going forward unless big infrastructure steps are taken. I love how everyone is talking about how great the system is because it is moving so many people and how you can ride so far for cheap, but no one is talking about how many trains are delayed and late and how this is becoming worse even as the replaces old subway cars with new ones. Ridership on the subways is growing not shrinking and having increased signal problems and more and more delayed trains is certainly not something that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. I don't know how many of you watched some of the specials that have seen one of which I watched just a year or two ago on cable showing how fragile the subway system is but I have and that's why I'm not giving rave reviews. Sure it is old, but that is exactly why more than what is being done is needed to ensure that the system is still in tact going forward. Let's also examine how many infrastructure projects are either over budget or delayed and we're talking about a system that needs a serious overhaul in terms of infrastructure and an agency that claims that it has serious money issues. These are the things that folks should be focusing on. I know it's all cool to have such a large subway system and all of that, but folks really need to look past all of this and see what lies ahead for the system and the trouble that it is in because it is not a pretty picture at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #87 Posted July 2, 2011 I actually believe we should cut our heavy funding to our military to end our wars, and to fund education and mass transit in this nation. Our subway needs heavy expansions, and more new lines to serve the under served areas, but to do that we need to upgrade and fix our current system, but I do believe that a decade or two there will be massive proposals for our subway system similar to the IND Second System, but hopefully this system will be built, and even more hopefully in our lifetimes. The Sixth Avenue Line took only 4 years to build from 1936 from 1940. Why can't we complete the entire Second Avenue Subway with 4 tracks in just 4 years? What is preventing us from dreaming big? The people before us did it, why can't we? I mean if I brought someone from the past that built the IND Sixth Avenue Line they would be laughing at how long it will take to build the Second Avenue Subway. They did even laugh more if they found it out it was going to only have 2 tracks. Their proposal featured 6 tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoking66 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #88 Posted July 2, 2011 I actually believe we should cut our heavy funding to our military to end our wars, and to fund education and mass transit in this nation. Our subway needs heavy expansions, and more new lines to serve the under served areas, but to do that we need to upgrade and fix our current system, but I do believe that a decade or two there will be massive proposals for our subway system similar to the IND Second System, but hopefully this system will be built, and even more hopefully in our lifetimes. The Sixth Avenue Line took only 4 years to build from 1936 from 1940. Why can't we complete the entire Second Avenue Subway with 4 tracks in just 4 years? What is preventing us from dreaming big? The people before us did it, why can't we? I mean if I brought someone from the past that built the IND Sixth Avenue Line they would be laughing at how long it will take to build the Second Avenue Subway. They did even laugh more if they found it out it was going to only have 2 tracks. Their proposal featured 6 tracks. Before WWII labour was cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #89 Posted July 2, 2011 Yeah well that's all fine and good but more needs to be done. The system is too fragile as it currently is and big innovations are needed in order for the system to be able to handle the growth in population, and further strain that will be put on the system going forward. It's simply not enough to be pleased with the fact that the system is able to move 5 million people around. My point is what is being done to address the future needs of subway riders? No one, at least to my knowledge, is denying that the system does need some serious expansion. It's obvious the system is catered to ,at the very latest, a 1950s population, not one for the 21st century. One only needs to look at the large amount of buses at the terminals for the and and the 168th Street Bus Terminal to see that Eastern Queens is woefully lacking in adequate subway service. People have been complaining about that and plans for the subway have included expansions into Eastern Queens, but the money always disappears for whatever reason. The system is improving and some aspects with new trains, but the trains are becoming dirtier, as are the stations, so you can certainly argue that for everything that the is doing right, they are doing several things wrong that completely overshadow the positives. I may sound harsh, but I see a very fragile subway system that is going to suffer tremendously going forward unless big infrastructure steps are taken. Like I said earlier, there isn't much of an excuse for dirty trains/stations, prior to the budget cuts, that is. Now, with maintenance crews being cut, there are less people to clean the trains. (Though, maybe if people stopped acting like the trains and subway stations are their personal trashcans, maybe they'd be a little cleaner. One can dream...) I love how everyone is talking about how great the system is because it is moving so many people and how you can ride so far for cheap, but no one is talking about how many trains are delayed and late and how this is becoming worse even as the replaces old subway cars with new ones. Ridership on the subways is growing not shrinking and having increased signal problems and more and more delayed trains is certainly not something that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. They are slowly, but surely, upgrading the signals. Dyre Avenue and Flushing are slated to have new signals by mid decade, nut you have to remember, they only have a certain amount of time to do this type of construction seeing as the lines have to be in some sort of service for the rush hours at the very least. The signals along the rest of the IRT are going to take some time to replace with the amount of passengers each trunk line gets. However, they might be able to get away with one way local/express, especially on the Lex, though it'd have to be in short segments. I don't know how many of you watched some of the specials that have seen one of which I watched just a year or two ago on cable showing how fragile the subway system is but I have and that's why I'm not giving rave reviews. Sure it is old, but that is exactly why more than what is being done is needed to ensure that the system is still in tact going forward. Let's also examine how many infrastructure projects are either over budget or delayed and we're talking about a system that needs a serious overhaul in terms of infrastructure and an agency that claims that it has serious money issues. These are the things that folks should be focusing on. I'm sorry but I missed that special. Like I said before, I'm not denying that the system needs some serious overall improvements, or there is some crazy mismanagement in the agency, because we all know there are and is. Like I said, the system is based around a 1950s population, not one for 2011. As for cost overruns and various other problems that occur, those are things that really needs to be investigated. It shouldn't take over ten years and several billion dollars to get three stops built. The agency also needs to stop using the lowest bidder, regardless of the cost seeing this almost always bites them in the ass in the long-term. I know it's all cool to have such a large subway system and all of that, but folks really need to look past all of this and see what lies ahead for the system and the trouble that it is in because it is not a pretty picture at all. @via...: my response is in red I actually believe we should cut our heavy funding to our military to end our wars, and to fund education and mass transit in this nation. That's much easier said than done, especially considering the various people you have in office with a wide range of what they feel is important and what isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted July 2, 2011 Share #90 Posted July 2, 2011 I actually believe we should cut our heavy funding to our military to end our wars, and to fund education and mass transit in this nation. Our subway needs heavy expansions, and more new lines to serve the under served areas, but to do that we need to upgrade and fix our current system, but I do believe that a decade or two there will be massive proposals for our subway system similar to the IND Second System, but hopefully this system will be built, and even more hopefully in our lifetimes. The Sixth Avenue Line took only 4 years to build from 1936 from 1940. Why can't we complete the entire Second Avenue Subway with 4 tracks in just 4 years? What is preventing us from dreaming big? The people before us did it, why can't we? I mean if I brought someone from the past that built the IND Sixth Avenue Line they would be laughing at how long it will take to build the Second Avenue Subway. They did even laugh more if they found it out it was going to only have 2 tracks. Their proposal featured 6 tracks. This is least likely event to happen, since military industrial complex is still up and running, basically taking away military funds going to affect everyone in the country. It's politics. The reason why the massive projects were able to be completed is such short time, is the absence of unions and nimby's. Lack of unions made it easy for the city to employ many people without paying much, that is why most of IND was completed during 1930's. Nimby's were easy, they didnt exist :cool:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted July 2, 2011 Share #91 Posted July 2, 2011 People can't even travel directly from Greenpoint to Astoria on the subway or from Flushing to the Bronx. Just cuz you can't do it directly, doesn't mean its not possible Who does that? You'll be suprised Chances are that 106 year old station will smell like piss Chances are any station will smell like piss That 106 year old system is falling apart. Look at the Culver Viaduct. And look what they're doing to it And? The London Underground also has diverse ridership I never said it doesn't I didn't ask for the entertainment. In fact, it often disturbs me. If I wanted entertainment I'd go to the Apollo Theatre. To some people it is Just because a system is large doesn't mean it can run like complete crap. There are systems larger than the NYC subway that are cleaner and more reliable. Do those systems run 24/7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
error46146 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #92 Posted July 2, 2011 Go find me another subway system that runs over 400 stations and hundreds and hundreds of miles of track 24 hours a day all 365 days of the year. Thought so. Comparing our subway to any other is simply an unfair comparison. Our subway has been around for over a century and has been running 24/7 since then. The London Underground doesn't have A/C in their trains, DC has the nerve to talk shit about our subway when their trains are derailing and smashing into each other, and there is simply no other subway system in the world that can offer you all that the NYC Subway does on a single fare. PATH is not a subway but a 13-station mini railroad. Nothing is perfect and either is the NYC Subway. But its good enough for me at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #93 Posted July 2, 2011 This is what happens on the Washington Metro besides the fact of it shutting down every time there is like 4 inches of snow on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted July 2, 2011 Share #94 Posted July 2, 2011 This is what happens on the Washington Metro besides the fact of it shutting down every time there is like 4 inches of snow on the ground. LoL at Karma :tup::cool: Thx error for your post. Yawn goodnight NYCTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATCOman Posted July 2, 2011 Share #95 Posted July 2, 2011 2. Where else can you literally stay on the subway for days/weeks/months on end (idk why would you do it in the 1st place lol) for only $2.25 You know you are addicted to the subway when... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Subway Posted July 2, 2011 Share #96 Posted July 2, 2011 We are not the best in the world, but we are definitely up there. We have express service, night service, and 26 lines (including the , and ) taking us places we want to go. Do other systems have all that? No. However, its lack of cleanliness, prettiness, efficiancy, and new mmachinery lead to its non-firstness (is that a word?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Subway Posted July 2, 2011 Share #97 Posted July 2, 2011 PATH is not a subway but a 13-station mini railroad. Do you consider the Franklin Ave a subway? Thought so. Path is a subway, even if it is a small one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexis4Jersey Posted July 2, 2011 Share #98 Posted July 2, 2011 Go find me another subway system that runs over 400 stations and hundreds and hundreds of miles of track 24 hours a day all 365 days of the year. Thought so. Comparing our subway to any other is simply an unfair comparison. Our subway has been around for over a century and has been running 24/7 since then. The London Underground doesn't have A/C in their trains, DC has the nerve to talk shit about our subway when their trains are derailing and smashing into each other, and there is simply no other subway system in the world that can offer you all that the NYC Subway does on a single fare. PATH is not a subway but a 13-station mini railroad. Nothing is perfect and either is the NYC Subway. But its good enough for me at least. The London Underground does have A/C on the Newer cars.....DC is rapidly expanding...but just like NYC they have neglected the current system to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted July 2, 2011 Share #99 Posted July 2, 2011 This is what happens on the Washington Metro besides the fact of it shutting down every time there is like 4 inches of snow on the ground. Wow, so a system is judged on ONE ISOLATED INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED TWO YEARS AGO? The DC Metro is a clean system with fast trains and air conditioned stations. All of the stations are beautiful. None smell like piss. This is a video I made of the DC Metro. Notice how fast the train is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecvOqPy8rc This is a pic I took at Largo Town Center. Notice how clean the platform is And this is the NYC subway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
error46146 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #100 Posted July 2, 2011 Do you consider the Franklin Ave a subway? Thought so. Path is a subway, even if it is a small one. PATH is a railroad operating under FRA regulation just like SIRT. Go look it up if you dont believe me. As for the two photos above, both of the platforms look clean to me...the 1st photo is of an elevated station and looks like it just rained, so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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