NICE Planned Service/Schedule Changes

[N6 Limited]

Weekday 20:15 n20H from Hicksville to Great Neck does 9:20 n20G Flushing from Great Neck. Everyone on this trip was happy.

What was the last bus before?

[mac5689]

Weekday 20:15 n20H from Hicksville to Great Neck does 9:20 n20G Flushing from Great Neck. Everyone on this trip was happy.

 

Famous you switched from using the 24 hour clock to the regular 12 hour clock, which confused me at first as to what time you were talking about for the n20H until I figured it out. When talking about time you should probably use one clock and not switch. (Especially since with the 24 hour clock 9:20 would mean in the AM not PM)

[FamousNYLover]

What was the last bus before?

 

 

Famous you switched from using the 24 hour clock to the regular 12 hour clock, which confused me at first as to what time you were talking about for the n20H until I figured it out. When talking about time you should probably use one clock and not switch. (Especially since with the 24 hour clock 9:20 would mean in the AM not PM)

I type so fast, I forgot to change to 21:20.

Bus driver pulled over to north side of station to layover and he announced to passengers, "If you're going to Flushing, stay on bus! I'll be leaving in 10 minutes."

Edited February 2, 2016 by FamousNYLover

[MTA Orion Bus]

I type so fast, I forgot to change to 21:20.

Bus driver pulled over to north side of station to layover and he announced to passengers, "If you're going to Flushing, stay on bus! I'll be leaving in 10 minutes."

1) Did passengers have to re-swipe metrocards? Under this new (messed-up) change, everyone else who transfers between the G/H has to do so...

 

2) "Oh sure, yeah that's fine, let's sit in Great Neck for 10 minutes. I don't have anywhere to be." Did the driver leave the engine idling in that time too? Great for the environment. NICE sucks.

[FamousNYLover]

1) Did passengers have to re-swipe metrocards? Under this new (messed-up) change, everyone else who transfers between the G/H has to do so...

 

2) "Oh sure, yeah that's fine, let's sit in Great Neck for 10 minutes. I don't have anywhere to be." Did the driver leave the engine idling in that time too? Great for the environment. NICE sucks.

No. He gave us one seat ride for us with one swipe.

When bus driver was strechting out, I think engine shut down automatically or maybe it was just announcement maybe.

[checkmatechamp13]

No. He gave us one seat ride for us with one swipe.

When bus driver was strechting out, I think engine shut down automatically or maybe it was just announcement maybe.

 

The problem is that it screws up ridership stats, since it looks like fewer people took the n20G from Great Neck to Queens, compared to the number that actually did.

[N6 Limited]

The problem is that it screws up ridership stats, since it looks like fewer people took the n20G from Great Neck to Queens, compared to the number that actually did.

The buses have Automatic Passenger Counters, they'll see the alightings.

[DS4Ever]

20:15 is 8:15pm and 21:20 is 9:20pm

 

The 24 hour clock is sometimes used in transit like for instance in the MVM and the SBS machines although the transfer metrocard display the more famous am/pm mode

 

So the last n20 leaves Hicksville at 920pm ???

[MTA Orion Bus]

The problem is that it screws up ridership stats, since it looks like fewer people took the n20G from Great Neck to Queens, compared to the number that actually did.

Forget the passenger counts. It's not fair to every other rider of the n20 that needs to transfer in Great Neck and has to wait outside in a line for 10+ minutes, then re-swipe and hope for another seat on the bus should it be packed.

 

Typical professional NICE on the n20: https://www.facebook.com/theNICEbus/posts/1135385819826452?comment_id=1136583559706678&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R3%22%7D

[checkmatechamp13]

The buses have Automatic Passenger Counters, they'll see the alightings.

 

Cool.

 

So the last n20 leaves Hicksville at 920pm ???

 

9:45pm, which is 31 minutes later than the old time of 9:14pm.

 

Forget the passenger counts. It's not fair to every other rider of the n20 that needs to transfer in Great Neck and has to wait outside in a line for 10+ minutes, then re-swipe and hope for another seat on the bus should it be packed.

 

Typical professional NICE on the n20: https://www.facebook.com/theNICEbus/posts/1135385819826452?comment_id=1136583559706678&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R3%22%7D

 

But at the same time, the old pattern wasn't fair to riders who would often get delayed by traffic at the other end of the route. A comment on City-Data mentioned that 30-40 minute waits in Flushing during rush hour are no longer the norm.

 

As for the B/O on the n20 (or n21, I'm assuming, since the B/O said Glen Cove), I agree with you 100%. 

[Amtrak7]

Now that they've put up the new GTFS, here's the new interlining charts:

 

Weekday

Saturday

Sunday

 

There's quite a few n20G-n20H pairings in there.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Amtrak7

[N6 Limited]

Now that they've put up the new GTFS, here's the new interlining charts:

 

Weekday

Saturday

Sunday

 

There's quite a few n20G-n20H pairings in there.

Interesting interlinings. 

[FamousNYLover]

Starting Feb 22nd, 2016, S20 will become loop bus replacing n19 bus segment of Montauk Highway between NYS 110 and Babylon Station.

S20 Sunrise Mall Loop will go clockwise goes from Sunrise Mall go east on regular S20 route, then west to South Bay Shopping Center, then follows n19 route back to NYS 110.

S20 Babylon Train Loop go counter clockwise from Babylon goes counter clockwise loop, following regular S20 route west to Sunrise Mall, east to NYS 110, then follows n19 Montauk Highway route back to South Bay Shopping Center, regular S20 route back to Babylon.

http://sct-bus.org/schedules/s20%202.22.16.pdf

New S20 Schedule Beginning 2/22/16

Starting on Monday, February 22 there will be a new S20 schedule with added service along Montauk Highway.

New S20 map:

 

New S20 schedule:

New S20 bus stops:

Westbound:

- North Side Montauk Highway, Near Side Delaware Ave.

- North Side Montauk Highway, Near Side S. Wellwood Ave.

- North Side Montauk Highway, Near Side S. Broadway Ave.

- North Side Montauk Highway, Far Side S. 9th St.

- North Side Montauk Highway, Far Side Hawkins Blvd.

- North Side Montauk Highway, Far Side Great Neck Rd.

- North Side Montauk Highway, Near Side Lake Dr.

- North Side Montauk Highway, Near Side Riverside Ave.

- East Side NYS 110, Far Side Merrick Rd.

Eastbound:

- West Side NYS 110, Near Side Montauk Highway.

- South Side Montauk Highway, Near Side S. Bayview Ave.

- South Side Montauk Highway, Across From William St.

- South Side Montauk Highway, Across From Great Neck Rd.

- South Side Montauk Highway, Far Side Doges Promenade.

- South Side Montauk Highway, Far Side Venetian Promenade.

- South Side Montauk Highway, Far Side S. Broadway Ave.

- South Side Montauk Highway, Near Side S. Wellwood Ave.

- South Side Montauk HIghway, Far Side Linton Ave.

Edited February 5, 2016 by FamousNYLover

[MTA Orion Bus]

Now that they've put up the new GTFS, here's the new interlining charts:

 

Weekday

Saturday

Sunday

 

There's quite a few n20G-n20H pairings in there.

Thank you for posting that. It is most certainly interesting! I assume TransitDocs is your website? How did you create the interlining chart?

Edited February 5, 2016 by MTA Orion Bus

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Starting Feb 22nd, 2016, S20 will become loop bus replacing n19 bus segment of Montauk Highway between NYS 110 and Babylon Station.

S20 Sunrise Mall Loop will go clockwise goes from Sunrise Mall go east on regular S20 route, then west to South Bay Shopping Center, then follows n19 route back to NYS 110.

S20 Babylon Train Loop go counter clockwise from Babylon goes counter clockwise loop, following regular S20 route west to Sunrise Mall, east to NYS 110, then follows n19 Montauk Highway route back to South Bay Shopping Center, regular S20 route back to Babylon.

http://sct-bus.org/schedules/s20%202.22.16.pdf

New S20 Schedule Beginning 2/22/16

Starting on Monday, February 22 there will be a new S20 schedule with added service along Montauk Highway.

New S20 map:

 

 

 

So this means the n19 will be permanently truncated at Sunrise Mall. With this, I have no issue (I believe there should've been something along Montauk Highway anyways). I agree with the change, and now, wouldn't mind having the n19 end at Sunrise Mall. However, I wish NICE bus would increase the frequency during the rush hour. I like how service to Sunrise Mall and either Lindenhurst or Babylon is now more frequent than before on the S20. The Montauk Highway S20 is a much better rendition than the n19 between Sunrise Mall and Babylon.

Edited February 5, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[checkmatechamp13]

Starting Feb 22nd, 2016, S20 will become loop bus replacing n19 bus segment of Montauk Highway between NYS 110 and Babylon Station.

 

Very interesting. It provides more frequent service from Sunrise to Babylon (and depending on where on the route you're traveling to, it might not be much slower than the current service if you want to ride the "long way" around the loop. I like the fact that it gets rid of the backtrack near the South Bay Shopping Center. However, it requires an additional bus, and at that point, I'm wondering if it might've been better to just extend certain runs of the S40 or even S29 to Sunrise.

 

I guess they figured if the current S20 is already somewhat of a loop (most buses don't layover at Babylon, for the purposes of being able to service the Great South Bay Shopping Center in one shot), they might as well make it a full loop to cover Montauk Highway.

 

It still doesn't have the full span of the old n19, nor does it run on Sundays, obviously.

 

I'm curious as to what the signage will say. They'll need some indication of whether the bus runs through Oak Street first, or Montauk Highway first (especially for passengers boarding at Babylon & Sunrise Mall/Amityville). Maybe they'll use "Sunrise Mall Loop" and "Babylon Loop" like they do on the schedule. (Sunrise Mall meaning clockwise with a layover at Sunrise, and Babylon meaning counterclockwise with a layover at Babylon)

 

I notice they added unnecessary runtime between Sunrise Mall & Amityville (10 minutes instead of 5 minutes) and looks like they added more runtime overall (which may or may not be pointless). They might've been able to run hourly service on both loops if they kept the runtime as-is, which would've been great for connections with the n19, as well as the n54/55. 

 

I also notice they still list transfers to the n80/81 at Sunrise on the new map (and also ignore the n55 transfer at Amityville)

Edited February 5, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[Amtrak7]

I also notice they still list transfers to the n80/81 at Sunrise on the new map (and also ignore the n55 transfer at Amityville)

 

The S90 schedule still thinks Center Moriches is open on the LIRR Montauk Branch.

 

I assume TransitDocs is your website? How did you create the interlining chart?

 

Just using the GTFS feed and Excel.

[mac5689]

Very interesting. It provides more frequent service from Sunrise to Babylon (and depending on where on the route you're traveling to, it might not be much slower than the current service if you want to ride the "long way" around the loop. I like the fact that it gets rid of the backtrack near the South Bay Shopping Center. However, it requires an additional bus, and at that point, I'm wondering if it might've been better to just extend certain runs of the S40 or even S29 to Sunrise.

 

I guess they figured if the current S20 is already somewhat of a loop (most buses don't layover at Babylon, for the purposes of being able to service the Great South Bay Shopping Center in one shot), they might as well make it a full loop to cover Montauk Highway.

 

It still doesn't have the full span of the old n19, nor does it run on Sundays, obviously.

 

I'm curious as to what the signage will say. They'll need some indication of whether the bus runs through Oak Street first, or Montauk Highway first (especially for passengers boarding at Babylon & Sunrise Mall/Amityville). Maybe they'll use "Sunrise Mall Loop" and "Babylon Loop" like they do on the schedule. (Sunrise Mall meaning clockwise with a layover at Sunrise, and Babylon meaning counterclockwise with a layover at Babylon)

 

I notice they added unnecessary runtime between Sunrise Mall & Amityville (10 minutes instead of 5 minutes) and looks like they added more runtime overall (which may or may not be pointless). They might've been able to run hourly service on both loops if they kept the runtime as-is, which would've been great for connections with the n19, as well as the n54/55. 

 

I also notice they still list transfers to the n80/81 at Sunrise on the new map (and also ignore the n55 transfer at Amityville)

My guess would be that the sign for the S20 Sunrise Mall Loop will probably say S20 Sunrise Mall and the Babylon loop will say S20 Babylon RR. 

 

Suffolk would want the signs simple, since most of their signs are, but Suffolk has switched to a new sign package to support GPS tracking, and they are already having problems with it. One that I know of is that when drivers put in the code for 'No Passengers' or 'Not In Service' it defaults to the S110 sign. Evidence is shown in a photo from 1065's crash a few weeks ago. The sign reads S110 Via 110 Corridor. 

 

Took me a while to understand what they did, since I wasn't expecting one bus to actually looping to and from Babylon and one looping to and from Sunrise Mall, I thought they would be both looping to and from Babylon; just one going clockwise and the other counter clockwise. 

 

The probably thought it made more sense to add a bus on the route that already went to Sunrise then to extend routes which it is, I mean why extend the S40 or S29 when the S20 already runs between Sunrise Mall and Babylon RR. 

[N6 Limited]

There's still no service between Unqua Rd and Route 110. Would it make sense if they rerouted the N19 so that it uses Merrick Road up to County Line Rd?

[checkmatechamp13]

There's still no service between Unqua Rd and Route 110. Would it make sense if they rerouted the N19 so that it uses Merrick Road up to County Line Rd?

 

I would say so.

[DS4Ever]

Not in favour of the new s20 modifications. ..was more towards a s40 extension to Amityville via the old n19 itinerary

 

Also i dislike the new usage of the computer announcements. ..i mean it just displays the route number and its final destination. ..i like when it displays us the date and time and spontaneously appears a major intersection and the town or village it belongs like example: approaching Southampton Hospital. ..Southampton

 

Also the 10 minute between sunrises mall and Amityville is because of the very very long traffic light change at NYS 27 and Unqua Road

[checkmatechamp13]

Took me a while to understand what they did, since I wasn't expecting one bus to actually looping to and from Babylon and one looping to and from Sunrise Mall, I thought they would be both looping to and from Babylon; just one going clockwise and the other counter clockwise. 

 

The probably thought it made more sense to add a bus on the route that already went to Sunrise then to extend routes which it is, I mean why extend the S40 or S29 when the S20 already runs between Sunrise Mall and Babylon RR. 

 

I think it would've made more sense for everything to layover at Sunrise Mall. I know most people get off the bus at Babylon anyway, but at least anybody wishing to go from say, Copiague or Lindenhurst over to the GSB Shopping Center can do so more easily.

 

As for extending a different route, it would increase the catchment area and give more people a one-seat ride to Amityville & Sunrise Mall.

 

Also the 10 minute between sunrises mall and Amityville is because of the very very long traffic light change at NYS 27 and Unqua Road

 

With the current schedule, it's 5 minutes. Whenever I've taken the S33 or n54/55, 5 minutes seemed enough to make it through that portion of the route.

[mac5689]

Not in favour of the new s20 modifications. ..was more towards a s40 extension to Amityville via the old n19 itinerary

 

Getting a S40 extension probably never was going to happen. It would take the terminus to far away from any SBC depot and therefore getting a replacement bus would take longer. Not to mention the possibility of hurting the reliablity of a route which is already pretty long. (As well as having to possibly add more buses than the one they are adding to the S20.

 

 

As for extending a different route, it would increase the catchment area and give more people a one-seat ride to Amityville & Sunrise Mall.

.

You are assuming first off that there are alot, I'm not sure how much would qualify, that are transferring from one of the proposed routes on her, to the S20. Extending a route, which could cause the need for more added buses, just to give a few riders the luxury of a one seat ride does not make fiscal sense. (Remember a one seat ride would eliminate the .25 cents that would be made off the transfer.)

 

And Suffolk Transit is known for not being in fiscal health, so they need every penny they can get. 

[Hound]

Not in favour of the new s20 modifications. ..was more towards a s40 extension to Amityville via the old n19 itinerary

 

Also i dislike the new usage of the computer announcements. ..i mean it just displays the route number and its final destination. ..i like when it displays us the date and time and spontaneously appears a major intersection and the town or village it belongs like example: approaching Southampton Hospital. ..Southampton

 

Also the 10 minute between sunrises mall and Amityville is because of the very very long traffic light change at NYS 27 and Unqua Road

The S20 reroute will not be using Unqua Rd.

[DS4Ever]

Mmm but the last s40 deadheads from Patchogue and Babylon. ..i would assume that the garage is at Bay Shore. ..Amityville (Sunrise Mall) and Bay Shore is almost equidistant to Bay Shore and Patchogue. .then again the scheduling would be as follow

 

Semi last and last s40 departing Patchogue

 

8:30Pm (to Sunrise Mall) to arrive at 9:45pm...layover up to 10pm run to BBabylon only (no service past Babylon) then deadheads

 

9:30Pm (To Babylon) to arrive at 10:15pm then deadheads

 

West-East last two routes

 

8pm and 9pm towards Patchogue (notice the 8pm route would make the return trip only to Babylon RR leaving at aforementioned 930pm)

 

10Pm would be run to Babylon only.

 

To say much a normal s40 makes the run in between 40-45 minutes so if the 7:30pm s40 departs Patchogue it would arrive Babylon RR at 8:15pm then a 20-25 minute run to Sunrise Mall which would arrive in between 8:35-8:40pm. (20-25 minute rest for the driver)

 

Total runtime for the s40 would be between 70-75 minutes (almost the same timing of the s66)

 

But this judgement was a optional theory now it is obsolete as the s20 got modified