Porter Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2776 Posted November 2, 2016 There's some net chatter hinting that the 72nd and 86th street stations won't open until 2017. I'm not sure how/whether to celebrate the 'opening'. Fire alarm and elevator tests? Seriously? Major face is about to be lost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2777 Posted November 2, 2016 There's some net chatter hinting that the 72nd and 86th street stations won't open until 2017. I'm not sure how/whether to celebrate the 'opening'. Fire alarm and elevator tests? Seriously? Major face is about to be lost. Man! With 2 out of 4 stations out prob not worth it to bypass to and from 96th. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porter Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2778 Posted November 2, 2016 Man! With 2 out of 4 stations out prob not worth it to bypass to and from 96th. I think it would be because 96th Street is a major artery, but more importantly, it would give the an excuse to boast that they opened the SAS on time (with one and a half stations). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2779 Posted November 2, 2016 86th is fine, 72nd is the one that could cause problems... I have heard chatter about skipping 72nd, but 86th I haven't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrome Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2780 Posted November 2, 2016 86th is fine, 72nd is the one that could cause problems... I have heard chatter about skipping 72nd, but 86th I haven't. Check out the latest board meeting materials: https://goo.gl/photos/VYQU9YDe13TRM56n7 86th St has more than one "red" status indicator, indicating potential impact to revenue service date. In a best-case scenario, the last escalator tests won't be complete until Dec 14 at that station. And those are dates that have been slipping further behind each month, quite consistently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porter Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2781 Posted November 2, 2016 86th is fine, 72nd is the one that could cause problems... I have heard chatter about skipping 72nd, but 86th I haven't. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/27/nyregion/2-stations-on-new-2nd-avenue-line-may-not-be-ready-by-december.html By the way, check out this photograph of a pre-2005 map featuring the , purportedly from Robert Sabo of the Daily News: The must have known in 2010 that the suspension of the was only temporary, which is why they should have just put or black stickers over the bullets. I believe that in Queens, they sometimes did just that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2782 Posted November 2, 2016 I think it would be because 96th Street is a major artery, but more importantly, it would give the an excuse to boast that they opened the SAS on time (with one and a half stations). Point taken. Check out the latest board meeting materials: https://goo.gl/photos/VYQU9YDe13TRM56n7 86th St has more than one "red" status indicator, indicating potential impact to revenue service date. In a best-case scenario, the last escalator tests won't be complete until Dec 14 at that station. And those are dates that have been slipping further behind each month, quite consistently. The Stations would have to be ADA from day one correct? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2783 Posted November 2, 2016 At a certain point, would it not be easier to install ramps rather than elevators? The required initial investment and recurring maintenance costs would be significantly reduced. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2784 Posted November 2, 2016 Point taken. The Stations would have to be ADA from day one correct? Any new station opening must be ADA accessible. No way around that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2785 Posted November 2, 2016 Any new station opening must be ADA accessible. No way around that. got it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrome Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2786 Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Well, at 86th, the issue is escalators more than elevators. ADA isn't relevant to escalators. If there are stairs and elevators ready, that should be enough to open with and satisfy ADA. And yet, the MTA is talking about the escalators as a major hold-up... I'm not sure why. Edited November 2, 2016 by rbrome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2787 Posted November 2, 2016 Well, at 86th, the issue is escalators more than elevators. ADA isn't relevant to escalators. If there are stairs and elevators ready, that should be enough to open with and satisfy ADA. And yet, the MTA is talking about the escalators as a major hold-up... I'm not sure why. 86th didn't seem to deep from the video 72nd on the other hand. Anyone know the Platform depth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl94 Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2788 Posted November 2, 2016 86th didn't seem to deep from the video 72nd on the other hand. Anyone know the Platform depth? 72nd: 98.88 feet 86th: 93.43 feet Both will be among the deepest stations in the system when they open and, other than Roosevelt Island, which is about the same depth as 72nd Street, the deepest outside of Washington Heights. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2789 Posted November 2, 2016 72nd: 98.88 feet 86th: 93.43 feet Both will be among the deepest stations in the system when they open and, other than Roosevelt Island, which is about the same depth as 72nd Street, the deepest outside of Washington Heights. Don't forget about Hudson Yards, that's somewhere near the neighborhood 100 feet deep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl94 Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2790 Posted November 2, 2016 Don't forget about Hudson Yards, that's somewhere near the neighborhood 100 feet deep. I did forget. That one is 125. Either way, you won't be able to open Second Avenue without working escalators or enough elevator capacity for everyone (which wasn't built). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrome Posted November 2, 2016 Share #2791 Posted November 2, 2016 I did forget. That one is 125. Either way, you won't be able to open Second Avenue without working escalators or enough elevator capacity for everyone (which wasn't built). Still, 86th should have 10 of 13 escalators working on time. Surely they can open with "only" 10 escalators, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl94 Posted November 3, 2016 Share #2792 Posted November 3, 2016 Still, 86th should have 10 of 13 escalators working on time. Surely they can open with "only" 10 escalators, right? Depends on which 10 escalators they are. I don't know how the station is set up or which escalators would be working. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted November 3, 2016 Share #2793 Posted November 3, 2016 72nd: 98.88 feet 86th: 93.43 feet Both will be among the deepest stations in the system when they open and, other than Roosevelt Island, which is about the same depth as 72nd Street, the deepest outside of Washington Heights. Man. 86th didn't seem that deep from the video. Looked like a percent and a half grade outside 86th southbound would have guessed it with in the 60-70 foot range. What's 96th at? Didn't seem like a downgrade from 106th-86th but then again The Eastside does gain elevation in the 90 and 80s. On 2nd and 3rd aves. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl94 Posted November 3, 2016 Share #2794 Posted November 3, 2016 What's 96th at? 48.78 feet. Source: http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_docs/SAS_March_2014_Public_Workshop_Follow-Up_Report.pdf#page=23 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted November 3, 2016 Share #2795 Posted November 3, 2016 48.78 feet. Source: http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_docs/SAS_March_2014_Public_Workshop_Follow-Up_Report.pdf#page=23 Gotcha. Definitely the rise in elevation. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrome Posted November 3, 2016 Share #2796 Posted November 3, 2016 48.78 feet. Source: http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_docs/SAS_March_2014_Public_Workshop_Follow-Up_Report.pdf#page=23 That station was actually cut-and-cover, so no surprise it's relatively shallow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted November 3, 2016 Share #2797 Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) That station was actually cut-and-cover, so no surprise it's relatively shallow. Cut and cover just like the section to/from 106th street built in the 1970's we go from a 13-foot elevation at 96th to 60 feet over a 10 block span so at a flat tunnel grade add another 47 feet on top of that 48.78 that's 95.78 feet so right in that range for 86th . The elevation around 72nd/2nd Ave is about 49ft so if the distance between 86th and 72nd was on a flat grade you'd have 72nd at about 46.7 feet. That's a 51.8-foot actual difference with about 3,700 ft run between stations that's about 1.4% grade to get to that 98-foot depth at 72nd. Kinda what I figured from the video. 96th 86th 72nd 86th and Lex for scale Edited November 3, 2016 by RailRunRob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted November 3, 2016 Share #2798 Posted November 3, 2016 Cut and cover just like the section to/from 106th street built in the 1970's we go from a 13-foot elevation at 96th to 60 feet over a 10 block span so at a flat tunnel grade add another 47 feet on top of that 48.78 that's 95.78 feet so right in that range for 86th . The elevation around 72nd/2nd Ave is about 49ft so if the distance between 86th and 72nd was on a flat grade you'd have 72nd at about 46.7 feet. That's a 51.8-foot actual difference with about 3,700 ft run between stations that's about 1.4% grade to get to that 98-foot depth at 72nd. Kinda what I figured from the video. 96th 86th 72nd 86th and Lex for scale This all makes sense. You have quite a bit of hills from 2nd to Lexington Avenue (uphill going west, downhill going east), especially as you go north/south between 86th and 96th. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted November 5, 2016 Share #2799 Posted November 5, 2016 (edited) At a certain point, would it not be easier to install ramps rather than elevators? The required initial investment and recurring maintenance costs would be significantly reduced. The MTA does install ramps where they can (42 St , Park Place on the Franklin Av , and new Arthur Kill station on the Staten Island Railway, for example) but I imagine some places they just don't have the space, or maybe they just find it impractical for deep distances between street and mezzanine, and between mezzanine and platforms. But then again, I'm no engineer. Oh yeah, something interesting: As part of the new schedule starting tomorrow, the smartphone app Transit already shows and rush hour service to 96th St: If the images aren't working, I have them on imgur: http://imgur.com/gallery/6vnCY Obviously the data didn't get the memo that SAS is not open yet Although, the data is a little wonky; it doesn't show times for 72 St, 86 St and 96 St, only Lexington Av-63 St. Edited November 5, 2016 by Mysterious2train 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstar1 Posted November 5, 2016 Share #2800 Posted November 5, 2016 Strip maps needs to be updated on R142 R142A R188 R143 and announcements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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