Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[NY1635]

Why move the B8's terminal to Mother Gaston Blvd?

[Threxx]

http://www.sheepshea...ds-part-1-of-2/

 

I apologize for the low resolution of the map. I made it in Inkscape which was a good resolution. I tried converting to png and also doing a print screen and converting to a jpg. Both times I lost resolution. It would be higher resolution if I could crop the map before exporting but I can't get that to work. If someone could explain to me how to do it, or another way to get a higher resolution, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

 

 

Just a question, how did you make this in Inkscape?

 

(Try saving as PNG. The file would be MUCH larger than PDF or JPG, but the quality is better.)

[checkmatechamp13]

lol... Well suddenly that area has a new name... They even have 3000 Emmons Avenue (the site of Thursday's meeting) as being in "Plumb Beach"... I've walked by that place plenty of times as a teenager and that area was always called Sheepshead Bay. Sounds like some sort of real estate ploy which clearly isn't working based on the number of empty condos all along Emmons Avenue. I honestly had never heard of Plumb Beach. I always thought that the end of Gerritsen Beach was the end there where Plumb Beach is (aside from Manhattan Beach of course). I never really paid attention to the map and I've never paid attention to the end of Gerritsen Avenue when I've been down there either.

 

 

I've actually heard of it. My dad used to talk about how there was a bicycle path alongside the Belt Parkway and he would go bike riding to Plumb Beach with his parents.

[B35 via Church]

Why move the B8's terminal to Mother Gaston Blvd?

 

I also have it doing that.....

I don't know Threxx's reason, but my reason was to attract more riders....

 

Currently, VA Hosp. bound buses use linden blvd to get back to church.... B8 gets very poor usage on linden blvd & that side of the hospital - What happens is, riders on the E. 98th st/hegeman side of the hospital needing the southbound B8 take B35's to Remsen & xfer for the B8 there.... My aim is to simply let those riders have the choice of the B8 & the B35 right on Hegeman, instead of having to take the 35 to get to the 8, if it's the 8 they need......

[Via Garibaldi 8]

heh... that real estate ploy you speak of, is ongoing throughout brooklyn so it seems... my personal favorite is the calling of bushwick "East Williamsburg".... full knowing bushwick has a negative stigma attached to it, and williamsburg been an "up & coming area" (another term I hate) for years now.....

 

The real question is (stealing your lingo for a sec... lol), why decide to introduce/call that area Plumb beach all of a sudden.... Don't think sheepshead bay fell off that hard, to where folks have to look to deem that particular part of sheepshead something else....

 

Those condo's & hotels along Emmons.... My theory is (and the timeline pans out too) when they were talking about possibly moving the nets down to Coney Island, that's when they started erecting those new condos & hotels..... If that's what developers were banking on, then it failed miserably - Those hotels for sure are gonna remain empty.... There's nothin in south brooklyn to warrant enough vacancies to fill up hotels in sheepshead.....

 

 

LOL... Exactly... Not only that but why in the hell would I want to pay $400,000 for a 1 bedroom condo with no friggin' transportation!! Unless you just love driving I could not see myself driving to Midtown everyday. There are no real amenities down there to justify those prices.

 

My friend lives in "East Williamsburg" along the near Bogart Street by a Boars' Head factory nonetheless and that place has been up and coming for years. It is so strange around there... It's like you walk a few blocks with people (hipsters and yuppies mainly) and then it is totally deserted. If you're a murder, that place would be perfect to hide dead bodies with all of those vacant factories around.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RTS CNG Command]

@B35: I have the link to the map.

 

 

And the article C&P'd:

THE COMMUTE: Above is the map I created showing my proposed bus routing changes for Southern Brooklyn. Yesterday, I discussed why changes are needed in Sheepshead Bay and surrounding neighborhoods — to build ridership on our bus routes, so that the MTA does not continue on its destructive path of cutting service and severing bus connections, as I discussed at the recent NYC Bus Riders’ Forum. There is untapped demand, yet the MTA refuses to acknowledge this, wanting us to believe that buses are only necessary to reach subway stations, so many routes — especially the ones with light patronage — can be discontinued inconveniencing just a few.

 

They do this by distorting the effects a route’s discontinuation will have, always citing alternate nearby routes that could be used, even if they are not practical. They do not understand the role that the bus can play in our mass transit system. They do not recognize that many seniors are not able to walk stairs to use the subway system because few stations are handicapped accessible. They are so shortsighted that they do not recognize that fewer and shorter bus routes, or routes that do not operate on weekends, will only drive up the cost of providing Access-A-Ride. There is a deficit that has to be plugged and the best way to do that is to reduce operating costs by cutting service. That is the extent of their thinking.

 

Now is the time to show them they are wrong and that more needs to be done — that they need to start thinking about expanding bus service. Now is the time to recognize untapped demand that has always existed, that the MTA is not aware of because they keep zero statistics on the number of trips that can only be conveniently made by car service.

 

The Proposals

 

1) New Bus Route To The Rockaways (Q51): Outside of Staten Island, residents of the Rockaways probably have the longest mass transit trip times in New York City. A proposal has been floating around for the last 40 years to reactivate the abandoned portion of the Rockaway Beach line and has only recently gained momentum with the talk of a new convention center at the Aqueduct Racetrack site. That proposal would dramatically cut travel times to Midtown Manhattan. But what does that have to do with us and why should we care?

 

It is because those living in Roxbury, Breezy Point, Belle Harbor, and Neponsit have only two ways of accessing the rest of the city by mass transit: a long bus ride to the A train in Rockaway Park or the Q35 bus to the 2 and 5 trains at the Flatbush Nostrand Junction. Few trips between Brooklyn and the Rockaways can be made with two buses. Most require three or more buses and a double fare.

 

If there were a route from the Rockaways to Sheepshead Bay Station that operated along Knapp Street and Emmons Avenue, two additional subway lines would be available for their use and new travel opportunities would be created. More importantly for us, there would be enough patronage generated to justify a bus every 10 minutes from Plumb Beach to Sheepshead Bay Station both on weekdays and 15-minute (or more frequent) service on weekends. It would be a boost to businesses along Emmons Avenue, including the UA Theater, and also make it much easier to access the nursing homes and assisted living facilities in the area.

 

However, as with any change, there is always a downside. The B4 would have to terminate at Sheepshead Bay Station at all times it operates because extending the B4 to the Rockaways would just make the route too long and unreliable. The MTA also would have to restore its policy that service changes will not result in extra fares. Merely hoping that the B4 service will become more frequent or that the MTA will restore weekend service is only wishful thinking as long as the MTA remains in its budget crunch.

 

There is also the alternative of restoring the B4 to Knapp Street when it operates, and to operate the proposed Q51, also at 20-minute intervals. The downside of that plan is that if the B4 does not attract enough riders to be sustainable at a frequency of every 20 minutes, it may also not be attractive enough to Rockaway residents. However, Plumb Beach residents would still see a combined headway of 10 minutes to Sheepshead Bay Station under that alternative.

 

2) Extend The B31: My next proposal is to get Gerritsen Beach out of its mass transit prison by extending the B31 beyond the Brighton line into Bensonhurst. Not only would B31 ridership be boosted off-hours by offering additional connections to the B68, B6, B8 and B64, a service gap — or as Transportation Alternatives calls it, “a transit desert” — between Avenue N and Kings Highway and between 60th Street and Bay Ridge Parkway in Bensonhurst would be filled. The extended B31 would operate along Avenue P and 65th Street to 12th Avenue and Bay Ridge Avenue where it would connect with the B64 for trips further west, providing a needed boost to that route’s ridership. In order to minimize additional costs, speed trips, and make the idea palatable to the MTA, I am proposing limited stops only at even numbered avenues in Bensonhurst. The B9 is available on 60th Street a quarter-mile away, which will continue to provide local stops every block, so nothing would be taken away.

 

3) Combine, Reroute And Extend The B2 And B100: These routes currently operate only one block apart for two-thirds of their routes. This situation came into being in the 1960s when Mill Basin was developed with bus service being provided by the Pioneer Bus Corporation instead of the New York City Transit Authority. Neighboring streets to the B2 were used since the city would not allow a private bus company to infringe on the franchises of the New York City Transit Authority. Also, B100 bus stops were placed every quarter-mile rather than at every other block because it was so close to the B2. Times change. Pioneer became Command Bus Corporation and was eventually taken over by the MTA, which also absorbed the New York City Transit Authority.

 

Today, the MTA operates both routes. The only difference is that New York City Transit, a subsidiary of the MTA, operates the B2, while the Bus Company (also known as MTA Bus) operates the B100. A crucial difference is that New York City subsidizes B100 losses, a requirement imposed by the MTA for taking over the privately operated bus operations several years ago, which were previously subsidized by the city. So when the MTA decides to get rid of one of the routes, which do you think it will choose — the B100, or the B2, which is not directly subsidized?

 

Also, the B100 provides needed service to Mill Basin whereas the MTA can argue that B2 service is duplicative with its route already covered by the B31 or the B100.

 

So, instead of waiting for this to happen eventually, which is inevitable with the B2 losing ridership each year, I propose to combine both routes as the B2, using the routing shown on the map. I also would reroute the B2 from Avenue R in Marine Park to Quentin Road to reduce walking distances to the route, boosting ridership by encouraging some B82 and B7 riders to switch. It would be necessary to add service on one block of East 36th Street between Quentin Road and Avenue R. One bus stop would have to be relocated from Avenue R to East 36th Street in front of the same homeowner’s residence.

 

The downside is that a two-block walk would be required to access Kings Plaza. This would be offset by the fact that walking times for many B2 users would be reduced and there would be minimal impact to B100 users. The choice is to make a proposal to the MTA now or wait for them to come to us with theirs. Additionally, the savings by eliminating one route could go towards the additional cost of extending the B31.

 

I am also proposing to extend the B2 westward to Coney Island via the current B82 route and cut back the B82 from Coney Island to Kings Highway and Coney Island Avenue. This would provide many additional connections to the B2, greatly increasing the neighborhoods it would serve directly or with a transfer. B82 service would become more reliable with a shortened route the way it originally operated as the B50, and access would not be sacrificed since Bensonhurst residents would still maintain transfers to the B49, B44, B41, B46, Q35, and B47.

 

Tomorrow: Discussing a proposal to modify the MTA’s 44 Select Bus Service plan and to restore the B64 to Coney Isand.

 

The Commute is a weekly feature highlighting news and information about the city’s mass transit system and transportation infrastructure. It is written by Allan Rosen, a Manhattan Beach resident and former Director of MTA/NYC Transit Bus Planning (1981).

 

Edited May 15, 2012 by RTS CNG Command

[Threxx]

Why move the B8's terminal to Mother Gaston Blvd?

 

 

More ridership, and it's an easier turnaround than the current one.

 

(Can you quote me, so I can get a notification? )

[BrooklynBus]

Unfortunately I cannot make out the map at all... Also what is up with this Plumb Beach??? I've been a Sheepshead Bay resident for more than half of my life and that area has always been called Sheepshead Bay. Also why does the B2 keep losing ridership again?

 

 

I submitted the svg file from Inkscape and that provided a much clearer resolution, but unfortunately some of the lines disappeared like the B4 on Bay Ridge Parkway and many of the route numbers. I have since made the corrections but since I did it in Powerpoint I'll have to wait for tomorrow to find out if it is usable.

 

Plumb Beach is the area around Knapp Street or to the east of it. They are also using it to designate the area south of the Belt Parkway and east of Nostrand Avenue to distinguish it from the larger Sheepshead Bay.

 

The B2 loses ridership every time service is reduced. Read my first article on the B2 which is linked in the story to read more about its history.

 

I like the B2/100 combo. I also agree w/B31 idea.

 

I don't see the need for the Q51 however. Also, where is the reverting of the B64, and the restoration of the B4?

 

 

The Q51 would either run at 10 minute headways on Emmons Avenue without the B4 or at 20 minute headways together with the B4 to provide a combined headway of every 10 minutes to encourage more bus usage. The restoration of the B4 is not shown on the map since he preferred alternative is the Q51 without the B4, but either is possible. If the B4 is not restored, and easy transfer on Emmons would be available betwen the two routes without having to make a loop to the station as was necessary prior to the B4 cut, so the ten minutes previously lost going around the loop would instead be spent waiting for the bus. Travel time to Bensonhurst would be the same as it was prior to 2010.

 

The B64 is shown on the map east of 25th Avenue. That was the part that was eliminated. No one is proposing to undo the 86th Street change.

 

Just a question, how did you make this in Inkscape?

 

(Try saving as PNG. The file would be MUCH larger than PDF or JPG, but the quality is better.)

 

 

I tried saving it as a png and the result was no better. Ned converted the svg format somehow which is what is now posted. It is much clearer, but much of the map got messed up. Hope to get everything fixed by tomorrow.

[B35 via Church]

First off, Thanks again to RTS CNG' !

----------------

 

As for these suggestions by BrooklynBus......

Ok, instead of looking back & forth as I comment for each change, lemme make it easier on myself & do it this way...

 

a- A Q51 b/w the Rockaways & Sheepshead Bay subway

b- Having the B4 run towards Sheepshead Bay subway via neptune

c- The SBS B44 to Sheepshead Bay Subway

d- Having the B2 run b/w Mill Basin & Coney Island

e- Cutting the B82 back at CI/Quentin

f- A B31 extension to (what looks like) 12th av & 69th (aka bay ridge av)

g- The canning of the B100

h- Having the B64 reverted to Coney Island

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

* Right off the bat, I'll say I do not agree to making Sheepshead subway a full time terminal... With that said....

 

a- As far as a Rockaway - Sheepshead Bay route, while clever, I'm not sure how well such a route would perform.... Goes way back to what I said about service along knapp, back when folks were suggesting extending buses to kings plz. from that area..... My belief with that is one of, there is no need for bus service along knapp st - If that were the case, it'd be simpler/cheaper to have the B36 swing along Av Z & up that same portion of Knapp to end somewhere around Gerritsen/Av U, instead of having to create 1] a new route & 2] having it come from Queens...... The route does have its benefits (serving kings plz from sheepshead, connecting the rockaways to the B/Q, the elimination of having to xfer to the B3), but I don't see it outweighing the negatives, I'm sorry.... On top of that, as was said, there's no real need for two routes b/w the rockaways & Brooklyn...

 

b- B4 stopping dead at sheepshead subway to support a route coming from the Rockaways to address the needs of Sheepshead riders... as a former court jester poster would say, "nope".... I'd rather revert the B4 in that area of sheepshead, have that serve (not terminate) at the subway, and send it to a part of Brooklyn where those riders would benefit more from..... which doesn't include neptune av.....

 

c- B44 to sheepshead subway's been done to death in the B4 thread... no need to reiterate how I feel about that....

 

d- B2... I can agree with the general idea (not exactly, but in general)..... Not sure why service should be revoked from Av. R & Fillmore av, east of nostrand, for the sake of moving it up to Quentin..... coverage reasons perhaps? Anyway, having a separate portion of another route serve kings hwy (west of the brighton) I agree with...

 

e- B82 truncation to CI/Quentin I agree with; current 82 is just too long & drawn out....

 

f & g- meh, having said the above about the B2 change, there's no need for me to really comment on the B31 & B100 changes, since I would restructure things differently - but this aint about me right now... lol.... Guess all I'll say about that is, I do agree with *some route* serving Av. P & 65th st.....

 

h- B64 to Coney Island I agree with; usage has quite noticable decreased since the truncation to UP depot....

Bath av is another area/strip that feels more dead since they altered bus service in that area....

Edited May 16, 2012 by B35 via Church

[B35 via Church]

Plumb Beach is the area around Knapp Street or to the east of it. They are also using it to designate the area south of the Belt Parkway and east of Nostrand Avenue to distinguish it from the larger Sheepshead Bay.

When did this happen?

 

No one is proposing to undo the 86th Street change.

Contrary to belief, some actually are.... I'm not just talking about forum posters that don't live in the affected area either....

 

I tried saving it as a png and the result was no better. Ned converted the svg format somehow which is what is now posted. It is much clearer, but much of the map got messed up. Hope to get everything fixed by tomorrow.

That whole svg - png thing is the main reason I don't care much for inkscape..... SVG's are a PITA....

[BrooklynBus]

When did this happen?

 

I guess since the B4 was cut back. I've gone to several of the Plumb Beach Civic Association meetings and they keep talking about the area south of the Belt Parkway so it sounds like to me they are including that area in Plumb Beach.

 

 

Contrary to belief, some actually are.... I'm not just talking about forum posters that don't live in the affected area either....

 

Possibly, but not the people in Bensonhurst. They only want the part of the B64 east of 25th Avenue reinstated.

 

Regarding your other comments:

 

As far as the Rockaway route, why don't we wait and see how the Rockaway people feel about it. It is posslble that the Sheepshead Bay people don't even want them.

 

I'm still considering your idea to reroute the B4 Sheepshead Bay portion to 86th Street. Just didn't want to complicate things more right now. I'll save it until I do my entire Brooklyn map. As far as both the B4 operating to Knapp Street and the Q51 also at 20 minute headways, that certainly is a possibility I will be presenting. I mentioned cutting it at Sheepshead Bay because some others in the area also suggested the B4 be shortened years ago to increase reliability, but not to discontinue service like the MTA has done on weekends and evenings.

 

B2 doesn't use Fillmore. B100 does. I'm trying to reduce the duplication. Fillmore is alongside the Park and doesn't serve the area well. Avenue R is one block to the north. Serves the area better, but Quentin Road is equidistant between the B82 on Kings Highway and the park minimizing walking distances for all. Also, it is a commercial street, unlike Avenue R which is completely residential, so it is suited more to a bus. Quentin Road west of Nostrand is completely unnecessary. Eliminating part of the B2 and part of the B100 would help pay for the westward extension. Otherwise all we have are additions and no subtractions. The MTA would never go for that.

 

I really think Rockaway is an untapped market and some riders now going to the A would switch and take the bus the other way to the B and Q and get a quicker subway ride.

[B35 via Church]

B2 doesn't use Fillmore. B100 does.

Yes, of course..... Under the B2 commentary, when I said:

 

"Not sure why service should be revoked from Av. R & Fillmore av, east of nostrand, for the sake of moving it up to Quentin"

 

I was referring to the general area with which you're getting rid of service; didn't think I had to say "Av R for the B2 & Fillmore for the B100, east of nostrand"... I mean, we both know the areas......

 

 

As far as the Rockaway route, why don't we wait and see how the Rockaway people feel about it. It is posslble that the Sheepshead Bay people don't even want them.....

 

 

...I really think Rockaway is an untapped market and some riders now going to the A would switch and take the bus the other way to the B and Q and get a quicker subway ride.

 

I was gonna say your Q51 benefits Rockaway riders moreso than Brooklyn riders.... As far as Rockaway being untapped, yeah, someone else brought that up (don't remember who)..... Fact of the matter is, those folks can't have it both ways.... It's not like they have no subway service, or no other alternatives to get to the subway w/i the Rockaways themselves....

 

I, probably more than anyone on these forums, am the most vocal when it comes to improving the bus network... So I'm all for improving the network, but on the same token (as you brought up in the B2/100 part of your post) duplication is a determining factor..... Flat out, Rockaway riders are gonna have to make up their minds..... It's ill-justified to have 2 bus routes running between the Rockaways & Brooklyn, since the rockaways is not that dense.... it's either they want the B/Q (more), or the 2/5 (more).... In other words, the current Q35, or having the Q35 serve some other station along the Brighton instead.....

[NY1635]

I have doubts about the sending the B81 and B82 to Gateway Mall. Traffic around the Belt Parkway might cause some delays.

[B35 via Church]

......Traffic around the Belt Parkway might cause some delays.

 

Yeah, I've been sayin for the longest that the B82 should remain terminating within Starrett City..... As such, the B83 remaining to serve Gateway Mall.... The MTA has it right with that setup, and they made the right choice in having extended the 83 instead of the 82 there back in late 2007.....

[Threxx]

Yes, of course..... Under the B2 commentary, when I said:

 

"Not sure why service should be revoked from Av. R & Fillmore av, east of nostrand, for the sake of moving it up to Quentin"

 

I was referring to the general area with which you're getting rid of service; didn't think I had to say "Av R for the B2 & Fillmore for the B100, east of nostrand"... I mean, we both know the areas......

 

 

Between Quentin Road & Fillmore Avenue, there's a space of two blocks. It doesn't really matter what street a Marine Park/Mill Basin route uses.

 

 

I was gonna say your Q51 benefits Rockaway riders moreso than Brooklyn riders.... As far as Rockaway being untapped, yeah, someone else brought that up (don't remember who)..... Fact of the matter is, those folks can't have it both ways.... It's not like they have no subway service, or no other alternatives to get to the subway w/i the Rockaways themselves....

 

I, probably more than anyone on these forums, am the most vocal when it comes to improving the bus network... So I'm all for improving the network, but on the same token (as you brought up in the B2/100 part of your post) duplication is a determining factor..... Flat out, Rockaway riders are gonna have to make up their minds..... It's ill-justified to have 2 bus routes running between the Rockaways & Brooklyn, since the rockaways is not that dense.... it's either they want the B/Q (more), or the 2/5 (more).... In other words, the current Q35, or having the Q35 serve some other station along the Brighton instead.....

 

 

Agreed, the B4 should be reverted instead of the Q51 idea, which is not necessary. My plan to service Knapp St was to have a route swing from Kings Hwy Station to Bensonhurst via Knapp St, Sheepshead Bay Station & Avenue X.

[Threxx]

I have doubts about the sending the B81 and B82 to Gateway Mall. Traffic around the Belt Parkway might cause some delays.

 

 

The B82 trips to Gateway are only 5 on Saturdays.

 

The B81 doesn't use the Belt to get to Gateway.

[Future ENY OP]

Southern Brooklyn is becoming a focal point once again, so here are my revised plans for South Brooklyn.

 

 

Southern Brooklyn

 

B7: Bed-Stuy, Halsey ST

Canarsie, E. 80 Street

Via Saratoga & Remsen Ave.

 

 

B32: Crown Heights, Utica Avenue

Mill Basin, E. 66 St

Via E. 56 Street & Kings Hwy

(Weekdays Only)

 

 

B81: Spring Creek-Gateway Center Mall

Midwood, Newkirk Plaza OR Brooklyn College (2)/ Station

Via Foster Avenue & Avenue D

 

B82: Starret City, Seaview Avenue WITH some trips to Gateway Center.

Midwood, CI Avenue/Quentin Road

Via Flatlands Avenue.

 

 

 

Reples in Red. Im going to keep this short and sweet.

 

B7: What needs to be done here is to increase headways on that line, no need to divert the line from Kings Highway. So. Keep as is.

What needs to be done here is to expand the B17 hours in canarsie, and have it serve the E.80th street branch on weekends.

 

B32: I don't really seeing this fly at all. You already have the B41 servicing the Mill Basin area via Avenue N, and the B100 servicing Avenue T, Mill Basin, and East 66th Street. Convince me to why E.56th street needs bus service than I could see this flying, but there will be neighborhood opposition to this issue.

 

B81: I agree with this, with few exceptions.

A) Newkirk Plaza is really too small to have a terminal. Streets are narrow.

A better terminal would be Coney Island and Foster OR 18th Ave Station line.

b ) Brooklyn College/Junction - This I would agree, operate via Avenue H, and Glenwood (semi duplicating the B6/103), but B81 continues down Glenwood to Penn Ave, Right on Penn, Left on Flatlands, Right on Fountain or Erskine to Gateway.

C) I don't agree with a Midwood terminal unless it has connection to a subway line going to Gateway.

 

B82: KEEP AS IS. Route already too long.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Future ENY OP

[Threxx]

Reples in Red. Im going to keep this short and sweet.

 

B7: What needs to be done here is to increase headways on that line, no need to divert the line from Kings Highway. So. Keep as is.

What needs to be done here is to expand the B17 hours in canarsie, and have it serve the E.80th street branch on weekends.

 

B32: I don't really seeing this fly at all. You already have the B41 servicing the Mill Basin area via Avenue N, and the B100 servicing Avenue T, Mill Basin, and East 66th Street. Convince me to why E.56th street needs bus service than I could see this flying, but there will be neighborhood opposition to this issue.

 

B81: I agree with this, with few exceptions.

A) Newkirk Plaza is really too small to have a terminal. Streets are narrow.

A better terminal would be Coney Island and Foster OR 18th Ave Station line.

b ) Brooklyn College/Junction - This I would agree, operate via Avenue H, and Glenwood (semi duplicating the B6/103), but B81 continues down Glenwood to Penn Ave, Right on Penn, Left on Flatlands, Right on Fountain or Erskine to Gateway.

C) I don't agree with a Midwood terminal unless it has connection to a subway line going to Gateway.

 

B82: KEEP AS IS. Route already too long.

 

 

B7/32: Do you know how many people use that route south of Remsen? Few to none. The B7 will provide extra service on Remsen & get the E. 80 branch weekend service you say it needs. Done and done. Now, servicing Kings Hwy in the place where it get some ridership: Foster Avenue-Church Avenue. This is where the B32 comes in. It supplements the B17 on northern Remsen, services the schools along Kings Hwy, and gives Mill Basin a new way to get to bus/train service. Quite frankly, I don't know why they wouldn't want it.

 

B81: Here's the rough idea. The terminal around Newkirk is as so:

Right on E. 17 St, right on Foster, right on Ocean, back on Glenwood.

 

B82: Again, only 5 trips in either direction on a Saturday. Plus, I cut off the route at CI Avenue & realigned the B2 to replace it.

Edited May 16, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[Future ENY OP]

B7/32: Do you know how many people use that route south of Remsen? Few to none. The B7 will provide extra service on Remsen & get the E. 80 branch weekend service you say it needs. Done and done. Now, servicing Kings Hwy in the place where it get some ridership: Foster Avenue-Church Avenue. This is where the B32 comes in. It supplements the B17 on northern Remsen, services the schools along Kings Hwy, and gives Mill Basin a new way to get to bus/train service. Quite frankly, I don't know why they wouldn't want it.

 

B81: Here's the rough idea. The terminal around Newkirk is as so:

Right on E. 17 St, right on Foster, right on Ocean, back on Glenwood.

 

B82: Again, only 5 trips in either direction on a Saturday. Plus, I cut off the route at CI Avenue & realigned the B2 to replace it.

 

 

Replies in Red:

B81: I'll agree with that,

 

B82: Just to me, route too long. The did the right thing by not extending the B82 to the mall. BUT B82 customers I feel would benefit for a possible extension to the mall, so partically, I agree. . MAYBE I'd also lean towards the B103 to also terminate at Gateway part-time.

 

B7/32: Mill Basin sure does need additional bus service, and the outskirts of canarsie do really need the bus service.

[B35 via Church]

Between Quentin Road & Fillmore Avenue, there's a space of two blocks. It doesn't really matter what street a Marine Park/Mill Basin route uses.

 

...and you interjected in telling me this because????

 

Look, You can minimize that distance all you'd like..... Try telling that to people who actually live in the neighborhood who need the bus to get around.....

 

 

My plan to service Knapp St was to have a route swing from Kings Hwy Station to Bensonhurst via Knapp St, Sheepshead Bay Station & Avenue X

 

Good for you....

[BrooklynBus]

Yeah, I've been sayin for the longest that the B82 should remain terminating within Starrett City..... As such, the B83 remaining to serve Gateway Mall.... The MTA has it right with that setup, and they made the right choice in having extended the 83 instead of the 82 there back in late 2007.....

 

 

 

The B83 ro Gateway was my idea. I proposed it to them in 2003. They told me they couldn't do it because buses were not permitted on the Belt Parkway. I told them that if they get a permit from DOT it could be done. Guess they didn't know that. It took them how many years to study it and finally do it? 5 years for such a small extension? I also believe they used the exact routing I propossed. It shouldn't have to take 5 years for a change that small and that obvious. Of course, I never even received an acknowlegement or thank you and if you would ask them, of course they would deny it.

[BrooklynBus]

Between Quentin Road & Fillmore Avenue, there's a space of two blocks. It doesn't really matter what street a Marine Park/Mill Basin route uses.

 

 

Of course it matters. Fillmore alone does not serve Marine Park well because pat of it runs along the park People between Kings Highway and Fillmore would have a very long walk to a bus. That's why I don't want the B2 to be flat out eliminated leaving only the B100.

 

 

I was gonna say your Q51 benefits Rockaway riders moreso than Brooklyn riders.... As far as Rockaway being untapped, yeah, someone else brought that up (don't remember who)..... Fact of the matter is, those folks can't have it both ways.... It's not like they have no subway service, or no other alternatives to get to the subway w/i the Rockaways themselves....

 

I, probably more than anyone on these forums, am the most vocal when it comes to improving the bus network... So I'm all for improving the network, but on the same token (as you brought up in the B2/100 part of your post) duplication is a determining factor..... Flat out, Rockaway riders are gonna have to make up their minds..... It's ill-justified to have 2 bus routes running between the Rockaways & Brooklyn, since the rockaways is not that dense.... it's either they want the B/Q (more), or the 2/5 (more).... In other words, the current Q35, or having the Q35 serve some other station along the Brighton instead.....

 

 

Don't see why Rockaway riders shouldn't have a choice. You will never know if there is demand or not if you don't try. Rockaway needs better connections to Brooklyn. Not everyone has a car. It would make many two bus trips possible that are now impossible. No one ever surveys the riders to determine their needs. I just rode the B4 to get petition signatures. You would be surprised to see all the places where the people live who use that route. There even was someone from Staten Island on it. And someone took it just to see what Sheepshead Bay looks like.

[Threxx]

Don't see why Rockaway riders shouldn't have a choice. You will never know if there is demand or not if you don't try. Rockaway needs better connections to Brooklyn. Not everyone has a car. It would make many two bus trips possible that are now impossible. No one ever surveys the riders to determine their needs. I just rode the B4 to get petition signatures. You would be surprised to see all the places where the people live who use that route. There even was someone from Staten Island on it. And someone took it just to see what Sheepshead Bay looks like.

 

 

In addition, even if the route flopped, you could just cut it back, no harm done.

[Shortline Bus]

Allan since this is basically the same as the 2012 Brooklyn Bus Propsals/upgrades, this thread is being merged.

[B35 via Church]

The B83 to Gateway was my idea. I proposed it to them in 2003. They told me they couldn't do it because buses were not permitted on the Belt Parkway. I told them that if they get a permit from DOT it could be done. Guess they didn't know that. It took them how many years to study it and finally do it? 5 years for such a small extension? I also believe they used the exact routing I propossed. It shouldn't have to take 5 years for a change that small and that obvious. Of course, I never even received an acknowlegement or thank you and if you would ask them, of course they would deny it.

 

All that time when it was just the B13 serving that mall, yeh, you'd think it'd be common sense to have at least *one* other route there...

 

There was a point & time when stores were closing down left & right (of the stores that were left anyway) @ Gateway; started to look pretty empty down there.... Then out of nowhere, shoppers started frequenting the area again... All those big box stores (as they call em) that are there now, were propped up....

 

If if wasn't feasible for you to get to the 13 (pretty much meaning ppl. that lived too far west of the route), it was rather cumbersome to get to Gateway via public transportation....

 

Now you have the B83 & the Q8 down there, and those two routes brings a considerable amt. of folks to the mall.... I'll admit, having Q8's I didn't agree with at the time - I was surprised at the intra-Brooklyn usage it was getting... then it hit me; all it was, was an alternative b/w the subway & the projects (incl. linden blvd), since the 13 is as laggy as it is.....

 

 

B7: What needs to be done here is to increase headways on that line, no need to divert the line from Kings Highway. So. Keep as is.

What needs to be done here is to expand the B17 hours in canarsie, and have it serve the E.80th street branch on weekends.

 

The B17 to Canarsie was my idea, so I'll elaborate on it....

 

I highly doubt increasing headways on the B7 will do it.... That'd only result in an increase in emptier buses along the route IMO.... I look at the route in three parts - 1] the stint b/w coney island & flatbush av..... 2] the stint b/w flatbush av & church av.... and 3] the stint b/w church av & B'way/Halsey.....

 

1st stint, riders (schoolkids + commuters) basically frequent the 7 if it comes before the 82, or the 82 was just missed and/or was too packed to board.... folks that pile on 7's b/w CI av & flatbush usually get off b/w that stint.... ridership from these set of folks past flatbush av is not great at all....

 

2nd stint, these set of riders mostly consist of schoolkids.... during school hours, this portion of the route is just about dead (not counting church av itself).... Everyone that lives in the catchment area (or w/e you wanna call it) of this stint are too busy making their way to 46's & 47's.... it's been like that for decades (according to brooklyn bus, trainmaster5, and older family members of mine)....

Those two aforementioned routes serve patrons/residents better than the 7 does.....

 

3rd stint, is where B7 usage is sustainable, has a far greater importance in the neighborhood this stint serves, and doesn't supplement any other route.... This is the part of the route that should be retained.....

 

As for the B17, the route shouldn't be that unreliable for as important as it is in Canarsie..... I agree w/ a span expansion on the 17, but I also think the 7 is better off serving Remsen av - Canarsie than it is serving Kings hwy (because I wouldn't cut the B7 outright, as a few ppl have proposed in the past).... better use of resources moving the 7 elsewhere if you ask me..... If you're tryna get to the , it's also a quicker ride; as saratoga av is closer to canarsie than Utica av subway is..... of course, if you need utica av (B46 or B12) or other areas along remsen north of church, the B17 will still be available for those riders.....