NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013

[B35 via Church]

Is this 816 needed? I walked that area for 30 mins there is nothing there not even cars!!!

 

It looks like you want to add service to 801 or 804 then extend it?

 

- I honestly do think there is demand to get from Plainfield to Woodbridge & Perth Amboy..... The "816" isn't so much about providing service along park av in Edison (the section you're probably referring to, talking about nothing being there.... I know that section is dead, which is why the 819 east of South plainfield [meaning, the metuchen branch] underperforms)..... Taking park av coming off oak tree is the quickest way to get to/from Plainfield..... I also think that anyone riding b/w Perth Amboy & Elizabeth can take the RR (the same cannot be said if folks are trying to get to plainfield & and areas around plainfield - including anywhere along the RVL)....

 

 

- As for your guess, nah...... The 801 had absolutely nothing to do with what I'm proposing (regardless if it also uses a portion of oak tree)..... I only mentioned the 804 b/c it has a portion it shares w/ the (circuitous) 48 colonia branch.... Breaking up the (old) 62, while trying to better provide the areas affected with decent service was my main focus with this plan, knowing what I knew about the riding patterns of the old 62....

 

....not finding some way to add service to the areas the metropark loops serve.

[DaTransitMan4608]

I mapped out a few routes I had already proposed with Google maps (which was a huge pain in the a** btw).

 

https://maps.google....013336,0.027874

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the 311 will be split between Howell and Newton Avenue. Plus select trips will serve the Pennsauken Transit Center when it opens.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Transitkid4608

[DaTransitMan4608]

UPDATE: My google maps proposal has some new routes you may like.

 

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004c9858de42a20c5044&msa=0&ll=40.554602,-74.292791&spn=0.013336,0.027874

[qjtransitmaster]

I mapped out a few routes I had already proposed with Google maps (which was a huge pain in the a** btw).

 

https://maps.google....013336,0.027874

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the 311 will be split between Howell and Newton Avenue. Plus select trips will serve the Pennsauken Transit Center when it opens.

 

Problem some of these won't work so well the ones are 109 and 310 reason people going to morris ave will use the faster 114 plus it is easier to extend 52 to morris county. 310 NJT can't compete price wise with greyhound,mega and bolt bus they can't compete speed wise with amtrak so useless.

335 just add fulltime 131 and have 131 do it.

 

341 give it to academy let forked river service extend to LBI.

 

800 just add 133 full time service add stop for off peak.

 

817 restructure it and full time 133 can take over.

 

61 and 390 I agree with but 61 however I don't like it going all the way to newark looks duplicative of NEC. See 873 for why duplicate services do not do well.

 

311 requires restructuring of 409. I wouldn't do it like that. I would have let a mercer line have the toms river to trenton segment mainly 607 while another line gets 607 south of trenton. 607 hits I-195 to 571 to take a more direct route to toms river. At off peak via forked river absorbing OC5 partly en rte to LBI. But at rush skips forked river at summers to LBI but stops at P&R and replaces former OC9 parts of it. too much detail to type here

[qjtransitmaster]

UPDATE: My google maps proposal has some new routes you may like.

 

https://maps.google....013336,0.027874

 

ohh you are 15 ok some ideas are hit and miss

[DaTransitMan4608]

Problem some of these won't work so well the ones are 109 and 310 reason people going to morris ave will use the faster 114 plus it is easier to extend 52 to morris county.

The 109 will run towards Newark and Jersey City before going to NYC. It will give Morris Ave riders direct access to Jersey City without having to take the 66 to PATH. Why would I extend the 52 to Morris County? That would be like sending the 559 to Old Bridge.

 

310 NJT can't compete price wise with greyhound,mega and bolt bus they can't compete speed wise with amtrak so useless.

 

True. True. But remember Greyhound, Bolt, and Megabus don't serve Walter Rand Transportation Center. Plus all of those cost way too much, especially Amtrak.

 

335 just add fulltime 131 and have 131 do it.

 

I don't think thats a good idea. The 131 serves the back roads of Sayreville and South Amboy. If you were to take the 131 away from them, you're going to have some angry passengers.

 

341 give it to academy let forked river service extend to LBI.

You have to buy a ticket to board an Academy bus. How are the residents of LBI going to do that when there's no bus station down there?

 

800 just add 133 full time service add stop for off peak.

The 800 connects Matawan to Woodbridge Mall. Whats adding a stop on the 133 going to do?

 

817 restructure it and full time 133 can take over.

The 817 doesn't need to be restructured. It needs to be extended to Woodbridge Mall instead of Perth Amboy.

 

61 and 390 I agree with but 61 however I don't like it going all the way to newark looks duplicative of NEC.

https://maps.google....853826,1.783905

Yes, I know it appears to be a duplicate of the NEC. But then again it kinda isn't. It doesn't serve Secaucus, it doesn't go into NYC, it doesn't stop at Metropark or any other NEC station for that matter(except for Newark and Trenton). The fact that it duplicates the NEC in a way is actually a good thing. Most NEC riders are screwed whenever the NEC has delays or gets suspended. Plus NJT doesn't provide rail shuttles so this is the next best thing since Bolt & Greyhound don't stop in Trenton.

 

 

311 requires restructuring of 409. I wouldn't do it like that. I would have let a mercer line have the toms river to trenton segment mainly 607 while another line gets 607 south of trenton. 607 hits I-195 to 571 to take a more direct route to toms river. At off peak via forked river absorbing OC5 partly en rte to LBI. But at rush skips forked river at summers to LBI but stops at P&R and replaces former OC9 parts of it. too much detail to type here

 

 

I would really prefer this 311 instead of sending a Mercer county line all the way to Toms River.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Transitkid4608

[SirJokaPlaya]

You are absolutely correct. Only route from Hackensack Bus Term to NY is 178,182, which takes you to GWB

 

 

I had a idea:

 

141 Elmwood Park - Garden State Plaza via Hackensack Terminal

PABT

Union City

Route 80 Local to Exit 66

Down East Kennedy St

Left on South River St

Enter Hackensack Terminal

Leave like the 83 does towards Cedar Lane

Continue on River Street - River turns into Hackensack Avenue

Services SHOPS AT HACKENSACK/Riverside Square Mall

Route 4 West

Services GSP & IKEA

Continues on Route 4 West

Terminates at Elmwood Park/K-Mart

I chose that since there are tons of spaces at K-Mart and they are never used, even on Christmas Time.

IF, and I do mean IF NJT was thinking of a P/R, they could use that lot, buy it from K-Mart, and use it for a P/R

 

Four Zones:

1 - PABT

2 - Union City

3 - Hackensack

4 - Paramus - Elmwood Park

 

Hackensack to GSP will be ONE ZONE (enticing people to take that bus to GSP)

This will help with the overcrowding of passengers on the 83 and 163.

 

141X - New York Express

Leg 1 - Elmwood Park (route 4), GSP to Route 80/95 to PABT

Leg 2 - SHOPS AT HACKENSACK/Riverside Square Mall - Hackensack Terminal - River Street to NY with selected trips servicing Union City (Call it 141U)

 

141X - Hackensack Express

PABT - River Street, Hackensack Terminal, Terminate at SHOPS AT HACKENSACK/Riverside Square Mall

 

141 Short Turn

Start in Union City, Service Hackensack, Terminate at SHOPS AT HACKENSACK/Riverside Square Mall

 

45 Footers MCI

[qjtransitmaster]

 

The 109 will run towards Newark and Jersey City before going to NYC. It will give Morris Ave riders direct access to Jersey City without having to take the 66 to PATH. Why would I extend the 52 to Morris County? That would be like sending the 559 to Old Bridge.

 

 

 

True. True. But remember Greyhound, Bolt, and Megabus don't serve Walter Rand Transportation Center. Plus all of those cost way too much, especially Amtrak.

 

 

 

I don't think thats a good idea. The 131 serves the back roads of Sayreville and South Amboy. If you were to take the 131 away from them, you're going to have some angry passengers.

 

 

You have to buy a ticket to board an Academy bus. How are the residents of LBI going to do that when there's no bus station down there?

 

 

The 800 connects Matawan to Woodbridge Mall. Whats adding a stop on the 133 going to do?

 

 

The 817 doesn't need to be restructured. It needs to be extended to Woodbridge Mall instead of Perth Amboy.

 

 

https://maps.google....853826,1.783905

Yes, I know it appears to be a duplicate of the NEC. But then again it kinda isn't. It doesn't serve Secaucus, it doesn't go into NYC, it doesn't stop at Metropark or any other NEC station for that matter(except for Newark and Trenton). The fact that it duplicates the NEC in a way is actually a good thing. Most NEC riders are screwed whenever the NEC has delays or gets suspended. Plus NJT doesn't provide rail shuttles so this is the next best thing since Bolt & Greyhound don't stop in Trenton.

 

 

 

 

I would really prefer this 311 instead of sending a Mercer county line all the way to Toms River.

 

you really do not understand how short 52 is do you? A mercer line would perform better financially.You clearly haven't used academy haven't you outside port authority cash is accepted for local and ny bound trips. I don't think you learned from NJT's former 61 or 300s haven't you long distance lines parralelling the rail have been tried ALL HAVE FAILED!!! and will eventually get axed anyway.

[SirJokaPlaya]

you really do not understand how short 52 is do you? A mercer line would perform better financially.You clearly haven't used academy haven't you outside port authority cash is accepted for local and ny bound trips. I don't think you learned from NJT's former 61 or 300s haven't you long distance lines parralelling the rail have been tried ALL HAVE FAILED!!! and will eventually get axed anyway.

 

 

I don't think the 319 failed because if that was the case, the 319 would not be operated on Fridays-Sundays and the ACES train would run supreme.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

I don't think the 319 failed because if that was the case, the 319 would not be operated on Fridays-Sundays and the ACES train would run supreme.

 

That was a different case ACES WAS SLOWER than 319!!! While those other former lines were not faster than the rail but slower unlike 319. remember red bank to newark?

[DaTransitMan4608]

you really do not understand how short 52 is do you?

Ok I'll give you that. The 52 is kinda short, but Morristown is a little far from its "comfort zone" if you catch my drift. How about just extending it to Livingston or Short Hills Mall?

A mercer line would perform better financially.

A mercer line in Toms River isn't going to perform better. You would need an Express bus between Trenton and Toms River. Especially since this line is going to Philly.

I don't think you learned from NJT's former 61 or 300s haven't you long distance lines parralelling the rail have been tried ALL HAVE FAILED!!! and will eventually get axed anyway.

Not all bus lines paralleling the rails have failed.

 

48- Duplicates NJCL from Woodbridge to Elizabeth

116-Duplicates NJCL from Perth Amboy

126- Duplicates the PATH's Hoboken-NYC lines

409-Duplicates RiverLine

551/554- Duplicates Atlantic City Line

Edited September 19, 2012 by Transitkid4608

[SirJokaPlaya]

I had a idea:

 

141 Elmwood Park - Garden State Plaza via Hackensack Terminal

PABT

Union City

Route 80 Local to Exit 66

Down East Kennedy St

Left on South River St

Enter Hackensack Terminal

Leave like the 83 does towards Cedar Lane

Continue on River Street - River turns into Hackensack Avenue

Services SHOPS AT HACKENSACK/Riverside Square Mall

Route 4 West

Services GSP & IKEA

Continues on Route 4 West

Terminates at Elmwood Park/K-Mart

I chose that since there are tons of spaces at K-Mart and they are never used, even on Christmas Time.

IF, and I do mean IF NJT was thinking of a P/R, they could use that lot, buy it from K-Mart, and use it for a P/R

 

Four Zones:

1 - PABT

2 - Union City

3 - Hackensack

4 - Paramus - Elmwood Park

 

Hackensack to GSP will be ONE ZONE (enticing people to take that bus to GSP)

This will help with the overcrowding of passengers on the 83 and 163.

 

141X - New York Express

Leg 1 - Elmwood Park (route 4), GSP to Route 80/95 to PABT

Leg 2 - SHOPS AT HACKENSACK/Riverside Square Mall - Hackensack Terminal - River Street to NY with selected trips servicing Union City (Call it 141U)

 

141X - Hackensack Express

PABT - River Street, Hackensack Terminal, Terminate at SHOPS AT HACKENSACK/Riverside Square Mall

 

141 Short Turn

Start in Union City, Service Hackensack, Terminate at SHOPS AT HACKENSACK/Riverside Square Mall

 

45 Footers MCI

 

 

No opinions?

[MarkD329]

Not all bus lines paralleling the rails have failed.

126- Duplicates the PATH's Hoboken-NYC lines

409-Duplicates RiverLine

551/554- Duplicates Atlantic City Line

 

 

The 126 really does not duplicate the PATH Hoboken-NYC service because it serves a different market, and different areas. It serves as an internal route in Hoboken [and a piece of Weekhawken], goes to PABT where people walk to Times Sq, Rockefeller Center, and the far West Side of Manhattan. The Hoboken-NYC Path goes to the Financial District, or through Greenwich Village, Midtown, Herald Sq, edge of East Side of Manhattan.

The 409 serves the strip-mall laden Route 130 from Pennsauken to Willingboro, areas a very far walk from the River Line. The segment from Willingboro to Burlington serves the Our Lady of Lourdes hospital outside Willingboro, but from Burlington to Trenton, it is very quiet passenger wise since many prefer the faster, cheaper, more frequent RiverLINE trains. In Trenton the 409 supplements the 603/613 on Broad St, plus the added benefit of being a full-service line, not exact fare like the 603/613. The line that parallels the RiverLINE between Camden and Burlington is the 419 and the ridership is DEAD. These buses run mostly empty except in Camden where is is an alternative to the ratchet 452.

The 551 serves a totally different market than the ACRL, starting at Philly's Greyhound Terminal, stopping at the WRTC in Camden, then the Avandale P/R. This bus carries a different clientele than the ACRL between Philly, Camden, Avandale and AC. Casino workers pack the bus between Avandale and AC, while a lot of people ride between Camden and Avandale, topped off by the day-trippers [and some commuters] from Philly. Avoid this bus on Summer weekends though, the conditions are miserable with all of the day trippers from Philly packing the bus before the NJ regulars get a ride on this line.

The 554 essentially fills in the gap to the infrequently-operated ACRL, this route's ridership also come in from the points in-between the widely spaced ACRL stations as well, it parallels the line but really does not duplicate it.

[DaTransitMan4608]

it parallels the line but really does not duplicate it.

 

 

This is exactly what I've been trying to tell QJT. My 61 route does that.

[qjtransitmaster]

This is exactly what I've been trying to tell QJT. My 61 route does that.

 

Err the structure of your route and the routes markD mentioned are not even close to similar. If a bus on the highway express from one point to another are both served by the same rail line and next to each other and the train is just as fast as the express bus then that bus is DOOMED TO FAILURE look up NJT 330 and 333 to know what I mean then compare the stops on your lines and if they are similar to the 330 and 333 they are going to fail this was the 1st mistake with my original NJT proposal ignoring the rail not a good idea buses do not make good direct alternatives to the rail unless they are at least 30 or more minutes faster than the train throughout the day. OK the only route I completely disagree with after reviewing your proposal in detail is 310 and 311's routing between trenton and philly as again 311's time savings is negligible compared to SEPTA's trenton line or riverline. Dooming it to fail 310 is fail written all over it it will not compete well against mega and bolt bus or even greyhound which would all be cheaper pointless route.

The 126 really does not duplicate the PATH Hoboken-NYC service because it serves a different market, and different areas. It serves as an internal route in Hoboken [and a piece of Weekhawken], goes to PABT where people walk to Times Sq, Rockefeller Center, and the far West Side of Manhattan. The Hoboken-NYC Path goes to the Financial District, or through Greenwich Village, Midtown, Herald Sq, edge of East Side of Manhattan.

The 409 serves the strip-mall laden Route 130 from Pennsauken to Willingboro, areas a very far walk from the River Line. The segment from Willingboro to Burlington serves the Our Lady of Lourdes hospital outside Willingboro, but from Burlington to Trenton, it is very quiet passenger wise since many prefer the faster, cheaper, more frequent RiverLINE trains. In Trenton the 409 supplements the 603/613 on Broad St, plus the added benefit of being a full-service line, not exact fare like the 603/613. The line that parallels the RiverLINE between Camden and Burlington is the 419 and the ridership is DEAD. These buses run mostly empty except in Camden where is is an alternative to the ratchet 452.

The 551 serves a totally different market than the ACRL, starting at Philly's Greyhound Terminal, stopping at the WRTC in Camden, then the Avandale P/R. This bus carries a different clientele than the ACRL between Philly, Camden, Avandale and AC. Casino workers pack the bus between Avandale and AC, while a lot of people ride between Camden and Avandale, topped off by the day-trippers [and some commuters] from Philly. Avoid this bus on Summer weekends though, the conditions are miserable with all of the day trippers from Philly packing the bus before the NJ regulars get a ride on this line.

The 554 essentially fills in the gap to the infrequently-operated ACRL, this route's ridership also come in from the points in-between the widely spaced ACRL stations as well, it parallels the line but really does not duplicate it.

 

you beat me to it damn you!!!!!

Ok I'll give you that. The 52 is kinda short, but Morristown is a little far from its "comfort zone" if you catch my drift. How about just extending it to Livingston or Short Hills Mall err well not really what I had in mind you misread me that is my idea but I take it a step further by killing the comfort zone I dislike comfort zones it is reflected in my style of post and transit observations. Not only would 52 go to livingston mall it will eliminate and absorb portions of the 872 and 875 or 880 I haven't decided. I had an earlier similar idea that was conceived to save the MCM lines while adding ridership to other lines and connecting other regions.

 

A mercer line in Toms River isn't going to perform better. You would need an Express bus between Trenton and Toms River. Especially since this line is going to Philly That is where you are a bit off again you ignore the presence of the rails SEPTA at trenton goes to philly thus negating your philly segment right there ohh the projection I was making was the line's current ridership plus the additional ridership gained. If you saw my central proposal in full this would be negated immediately. But too much to type here.

 

Not all bus lines paralleling the rails have failed.

 

48- Duplicates NJCL from Woodbridge to Elizabeth

116-Duplicates NJCL from Perth Amboy

126- Duplicates the PATH's Hoboken-NYC lines

409-Duplicates RiverLine

551/554- Duplicates Atlantic City Line

 

Ohh one more thing NONE of those lines you mentioned are nearly as duplicative as your 300 series ideas look closer at the distance between the rail and the places those buses serve and the speed of them then compare to your routes nuff said. However I was a bit harsh earlier due to not revealing much info here.

 

61 I would have it go to journal sq via SI college via I-278. Another line for newark airport can be made as a possible absorption of the 56/57 but even I am not sure how to go about it maybe via go28 extension via rte 1 but only to linden plaza use the 61 otherwise. 61 may either go 440 express or via 10's routing but leaning towards express.as links to MTA would generate enough ridership anyway.

Edited September 20, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

Err the structure of your route and the routes markD mentioned are not even close to similar. If a bus on the highway express from one point to another are both served by the same rail line and next to each other and the train is just as fast as the express bus then that bus is DOOMED TO FAILURE look up NJT 330 and 333 to know what I mean then compare the stops on your lines and if they are similar to the 330 and 333 they are going to fail this was the 1st mistake with my original NJT proposal ignoring the rail not a good idea buses do not make good direct alternatives to the rail unless they are at least 30 or more minutes faster than the train throughout the day. OK the only route I completely disagree with after reviewing your proposal in detail is 310 and 311's routing between trenton and philly as again 311's time savings is negligible compared to SEPTA's trenton line or riverline. Dooming it to fail 310 is fail written all over it it will not compete well against mega and bolt bus or even greyhound which would all be cheaper pointless route.

 

I got rid of the 310(a decision I'm not too proud of). But I'm keeping the 311, only it doesn't serve Trenton anymore. It will still serve Walter Rand Transportation Center.

 

61 I would have it go to journal sq via SI college via I-278. Another line for newark airport can be made as a possible absorption of the 56/57 but even I am not sure how to go about it maybe via go28 extension via rte 1 but only to linden plaza use the 61 otherwise. 61 may either go 440 express or via 10's routing but leaning towards express.as links to MTA would generate enough ridership anyway.

The 61 has been updated. Some routes were deleted, some were added, and some were changed.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004c9858de42a20c5044&msa=0&ll=40.694891,-74.178014&spn=0.026616,0.055747

[qjtransitmaster]

I got rid of the 310(a decision I'm not too proud of). But I'm keeping the 311, only it doesn't serve Trenton anymore. It will still serve Walter Rand Transportation Center.

 

 

The 61 has been updated. Some routes were deleted, some were added, and some were changed.

https://maps.google....026616,0.055747

 

ok well how fast would the 311 be vs 406 via rte 70 direct to toms river (if it bypassed east camden)

 

Err 109 = useless the 31 already does this improving the 88 is easier to do plus people will use 31 to PATH anyway.

your version at least. I won't detail mine just yet but hint it takes the form of an extended local line to SI via renumbering.

 

18 yeah very useless duplicated the PATH and HBLR has zero chance of working plus buses already frequently serve summit ave so just use the PATH.

 

859 and 861 =FACEPALM 859 has horrid route structure very unattractive routing the line looks like MTA MD's 14 heck even worse it is hideous. Just extend 818 via rte 18 as it links with 139 to long branch via the highway a stop at a P&R by rte 79 will only work if 135 gets more service good luck with that. 861 err you know it is easier to just restructure the 817 done. Or extend 813 to link perth amboy to SI. Extended 818 will have 831 eliminated however.

 

341 = you do realize academy's forked river line only needs to extend to LBI killing the purpose of your route completely and gaining ridership right again extending an existing line is easier than an entirely new one that is mostly along the same path as another but longer so nope.

 

 

err just power up 417 and have it extend via the NJTP to I-195 however due to another proposal in my plan it will not be able to go to toms river so it stops at howel P&R then monmouth service plaza to absorb northern part of 830 and or 837 via rte 18 but not decided.

Edited September 21, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

ok well how fast would the 311 be vs 406 via rte 70 direct to toms river (if it bypassed east camden)

Since select trips will skip Camden, the route should take about 1 hour and 25 minutes without stopping over in Camden.

 

Err 109 = useless the 31 already does this improving the 88 is easier to do plus people will use 31 to PATH anyway.

your version at least. I won't detail mine just yet but hint it takes the form of an extended local line to SI via renumbering.

 

18 yeah very useless duplicated the PATH and HBLR has zero chance of working plus buses already frequently serve summit ave so just use the PATH.

 

859 and 861 =FACEPALM 859 has horrid route structure very unattractive routing the line looks like MTA MD's 14 heck even worse it is hideous.

 

Just extend 818 via rte 18 as it links with 139 to long branch via the highway a stop at a P&R by rte 79 will only work if 135 gets more service good luck with that. 861 err you know it is easier to just restructure the 817 done. Or extend 813 to link perth amboy to SI. Extended 818 will have 831 eliminated however.

 

341 = you do realize academy's forked river line only needs to extend to LBI killing the purpose of your route completely and gaining ridership right again extending an existing line is easier than an entirely new one that is mostly along the same path as another but longer so nope.

 

 

err just power up 417 and have it extend via the NJTP to I-195 however due to another proposal in my plan it will not be able to go to toms river so it stops at howel P&R then monmouth service plaza to absorb northern part of 830 and or 837 via rte 18 but not decided.

 

109- is now Kearny-Jersey City-New York. It's not getting changed, idc what it duplicates or what's nearby, I'm not changing it again.

 

341- I've updated the line, the route is going to be split between Howell, Egg Harbor, and Academy. Academy's version will be the Forked River line extended to LBI. This route will operate full time to service the residents in Manahawkin.

 

18- is now Newark-Bayonne/8th Street HBLR Station. There are no buses from Newark to Bayonne and the PATH doesn't go there from Newark, so I don't find any issues with it.

 

859/861- I got rid of the 859 because you had a point, but originally I wanted it to end at Freehold Mall. This route was going to work full time unlike the 135. As for the 861, I'm going to leave the 817 the way it is. The 861 is going to be the 817's variant in a way.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004c9858de42a20c5044&msa=0&ie=UTF8&ll=39.688002,-74.253416&spn=0.027014,0.055747&t=m&z=15&vpsrc=6&iwloc=0004c99a6c381d99a2b4f

Edited September 21, 2012 by Transitkid4608

[qjtransitmaster]

Since select trips will skip Camden, the route should take about 1 hour and 25 minutes without stopping over in Camden.

 

 

109- is now Kearny-Jersey City-New York. It's not getting changed, idc what it duplicates or what's nearby, I'm not changing it again.

 

341- I've updated the line, the route is going to be split between Howell, Egg Harbor, and Academy. Academy's version will be the Forked River line extended to LBI. This route will operate full time to service the residents in Manahawkin.

 

18- is now Newark-Bayonne/8th Street HBLR Station. There are no buses from Newark to Bayonne and the PATH doesn't go there from Newark, so I don't find any issues with it.

 

859/861- I got rid of the 859 because you had a point, but originally I wanted it to end at Freehold Mall. This route was going to work full time unlike the 135. As for the 861, I'm going to leave the 817 the way it is. The 861 is going to be the 817's variant in a way.

https://maps.google....9a6c381d99a2b4f

 

861 = fail just extend 813 or 817 to bricktown mall. You complicate the easy.

 

18 are you sure you do not want to extend an existing NJT line to do it? like 71 or 73 or 21 down that route and become like 101 or 102 to bay ridge via bayonne? It allows you to use less resources and add revenue via NY bound fare. Plus with an agreement with MTA NJT may be able to skip the tolls on the bridges to brooklyn from SI. But that is just my style so you are different from me anyway.

 

Ok so 406 would take an hour and 25 mins to reach toms river is that correct?

 

alright how long will your 311 take to reach toms river? compared to 406 via rte 70?

Edited September 22, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[mfs NJT459]

the 419 also duplicates the River Line but only up to Burlington

[qjtransitmaster]

the 419 also duplicates the River Line but only up to Burlington

 

how long would 406 be if it skipped east camden and went on rte 70 directly to toms river?

 

vs a non stop line via 295 and 195 and GSP?

 

I think we established how useless 419 is.

[DaTransitMan4608]

This thread has been kinda quiet so I'm gonna post some new ideas.

 

Introducing the TransitCard

I based these off the MetroCards. It keeps the boarding process faster on exact fare and full service routes.

 

Bus shelters at more bus stops. Most of the bus stops need bus shelters because after all, this state does experience four seasons in a week, and most passengers who aren't at a P&R or Bus Terminal are most likely freezing or wet. These shelters should come with heat lamps in them for when the weather gets colder.

[MarkD329]

Here's my ideas for commuter service to Trenton. With the RiverLINE bringing commuters to Trenton from the south [along with the 418 bus], the NEC trains bringing commuters from the North, there should be a bus that brings State workers commuting from Ocean County to Trenton. During many rush hours, I notice from my RiverLINE train traffic backing up on 129 and at times on I-195. I know a bus might not help out with the traffic but it would give Ocean County and Central NJ some travel options.

 

Each route [631-632-633] would have 3 or 4 trips inbound to Trenton in the AM rush, and the same number outbound in the PM rush, with one special midday route [630] making 3 trips looping around the major communities in the Central NJ area [Freehold, Howell, Toms River, Lakewood].

 

The routes are:

 

630- Trenton/Toms River: 3 midday round trips starting at Toms River, then Lakewood, Howell, Freehold, then express on I-195 to Trenton,

631- Trenton/Freehold Direct Exoress to Freehold and maybe a trip to Asbury Park

632- Trenton/Howell/Lakewood

633- Trenton/Toms River Direct Express to Toms River Terminal

 

These bus routes would use MCI buses based out of Howell Garage.

 

What do you think of these proposals?

[MarkD329]

how long would 406 be if it skipped east camden and went on rte 70 directly to toms river?

 

vs a non stop line via 295 and 195 and GSP?

 

I think we established how useless 419 is.

 

 

I'm all for the 406 skipping East Camden, it might get more people to ride this bus into Philly during rush hours, but once you get past Medford, you're definitely in the sticks and no customers in that area.

 

See my Trenton Commuter post for buses using I-195 cross-state to Toms River, etc,.

Edited September 26, 2012 by MarkD329

[qjtransitmaster]

This thread has been kinda quiet so I'm gonna post some new ideas.

 

Introducing the TransitCard

I based these off the MetroCards. It keeps the boarding process faster on exact fare and full service routes.

 

Bus shelters at more bus stops. Most of the bus stops need bus shelters because after all, this state does experience four seasons in a week, and most passengers who aren't at a P&R or Bus Terminal are most likely freezing or wet. These shelters should come with heat lamps in them for when the weather gets colder.

 

Yeah I have an asian friend who came up with this same idea but his is a smartcard farecard similar to WMATA's smartrip card which I admire about DC. I think NJT should skip to the smartcards as it is too late for a metrocard type farecard.

Here's my ideas for commuter service to Trenton. With the RiverLINE bringing commuters to Trenton from the south [along with the 418 bus], the NEC trains bringing commuters from the North, there should be a bus that brings State workers commuting from Ocean County to Trenton. During many rush hours, I notice from my RiverLINE train traffic backing up on 129 and at times on I-195. I know a bus might not help out with the traffic but it would give Ocean County and Central NJ some travel options.

 

Each route [631-632-633] would have 3 or 4 trips inbound to Trenton in the AM rush, and the same number outbound in the PM rush, with one special midday route [630] making 3 trips looping around the major communities in the Central NJ area [Freehold, Howell, Toms River, Lakewood].

 

The routes are:

 

630- Trenton/Toms River: 3 midday round trips starting at Toms River, then Lakewood, Howell, Freehold, then express on I-195 to Trenton,

this has good intentions but 3 trips is why 311 six flags failed. extended 139 via rte 9 to toms river or 64/63 creates the link at howell to the I-195 corridor backtracking kills ridership so cut out freehold if you want to serve trenton with this.

631- Trenton/Freehold Direct Exoress to Freehold and maybe a trip to Asbury Park

reshaping 613 into 2 lines can accomplish this easily do not underestimate the speed of rte 33 and 130 which are great routes for a cross state line to take you end up merging segments of 3 lines into one with this new line 836,613 and rte 130 bus (partially) into one direct connector line.

632- Trenton/Howell/Lakewood

630 is useless before this 632 due to being more direct however I will let you know soon but nice concept I like it.

633- Trenton/Toms River Direct Express to Toms River Terminal

you are better off reshawping 607 to lose it's southward segment to another line like 603 or something else then hitting the highway to 571 due to this routing being direct plus you add real transit service to ocean county you can eat off parts of the OC10 connection if you shape it properly. I would base these lines out of hamilton and split many between howell and neptune and academy (toms river) to keep DH's very short. 139 will feel the pressure of these connecting lines do you think I should just out with it already?

These bus routes would use MCI buses based out of Howell Garage.

 

What do you think of these proposals?

 

restructured 607 kills this my 613 originates in trenton then via 613 line to hamilton marketplace and via rte 33 eliminating your 631 and killing off the rte 130 shuttle bus and eating up the 836 line while streamlining parts of it in freehold. At rush some trips via bypass to asbury split with hamilton and neptune garages. My 607 plan eats former OC10& OC9(rush hour only) via I-195 to jackson P&R connections available to another bus I have planned for linking rte 130 area to monmouth county via I195 and another line from camden to freehold eating 307 transfers also available to academy's manchester service the 607 from P&R via rte 571 and six flags(summer) direct to toms river express stopping at forked river P&R and then barnegat P&R absorbs parts of OC9 to LBI south during summers to north use academy for south. red replies for each line I will simplify this post later you make good points however.

I'm all for the 406 skipping East Camden, it might get more people to ride this bus into Philly during rush hours, but once you get past Medford, you're definitely in the sticks and no customers in that area.

 

See my Trenton Commuter post for buses using I-195 cross-state to Toms River, etc,.

 

Already beat you to it via my central restructuring plan I was talking to some NJT folk about it. However my 406 has no intention of getting riders past medford it is intended for people going directly to toms river and that is the best route I can come up with many of my ideas were influenced by studies NJT made with SJPA and NJTPA. NJT intended to make a rural line via rte 70 but my 406 plan invalidates this plan.

 

I think I have been holding back for a bit too long don't ya agree.

 

I-195 is not that backed up at all even at rush hour. All you will do with these buses is make SEPTA/NJT AND RIVERLINE MORE CROWDED forcing many of these lines to run 7 days a week. These levels are not gonna hack it.

Edited September 26, 2012 by qjtransitmaster