Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #176 Posted August 20, 2012 Both of you raise excellent points. While both of you disagree on the long-term solution, we do agree that the lack of SBS in eastern Queens is a huge hole in the system, until there is something better. In some ways Staten Island is ahead bus-wise because at least they'll get SBS. What's even worse is that eastern Queens has a higher population density than Staten Island (St. George notwithstanding). In a way the dollar vans are a stopgap but not a long-term solution for viable transit in southeastern Queens. I'm not sure who you're referring to when you say both of you because I've blocked some rather obnoxious individuals, but in any event I think my long term solution for Queens is quite reasonable. You can't make the argument that we have to have subways extended now or in the near future if there is no money for it. That is just irresponsible and quite frankly one reason why the got itself into the hole that did over the past several years (in addition to the economy) by borrowing monies in advance that it didn't have. You have to work on short term fixes to alleviate the pain if you will and plan for the long term, which is what my plan would do. There is no question that subway service in the long term would help, but delays and additional costs are all things that can't be foreseen and so improving bus service across the borough is the first way to help Queens residents out and do so quickly and at a relatively cheap cost compared to the upfront costs for the subway. I will say that I have been in talks with some folks about fighting to restore some lost bus service in Queens and starting some petitions, etc. I won't go into details but we are optimistic that we can get some things done together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #177 Posted August 20, 2012 Does SBS have a place in Queens? The Q5 got rejected several years back because of parking concerns on Merrick Blvd, so that pretty much rules out all the Merrick Blvd routes, and there's nothing about the Q43 so far, even though it was tapped as the second "Phase II" route. [usurped by the M60, I guess.] Although, if either of these routes actually get SBS, what span of time do you think they'd run for? It's doubtful the MTA wants to spend $$$ converting peak rush hour Limiteds into all day every day services (although SBS did give Sunday service that the Bx12 Limited never had) If there was one route that should be SBS in Queens, it should be the Q44. However, I think Main Street merchants will oppose the bus lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q10 Airport Posted August 20, 2012 Share #178 Posted August 20, 2012 - There absolutely is a need for subway service in eastern Queens (SE & NE)... Jamaica & Flushing wouldn't be the madhouses that they are, otherwise..... I mean, people are fed up with 30+ min bus rides just to get to a subway that takes another 30-40 mins to get to where ever in manhattan they're tryna get to..... They may still be madhouses because they are major centers of transit. That being said, you bring up a good point about transit in northeast Queens, especially in the Northern Blvd corridor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #179 Posted August 20, 2012 My ideas for extensions of the / , the , , and . https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004c7b61f1c6a66604b7&msa=0&ll=40.809132,-73.737488&spn=0.300914,0.615921 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 20, 2012 Share #180 Posted August 20, 2012 My ideas for extensions of the / , the , , and . https://maps.google....300914,0.615921 Wonders if Threxx has at $1 Trillion bucks(i am serious) on the extensions? The would under his plan be way over 2 hour trip between CI and further into Queens. Maybe in Threxx world he has at $1 Trillion to pay for it. Plus dealing with neighbors in NIMBY land i.e in Bayside area. Wonders if Threxx would like if constructions was across the street from his house. await his reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #181 Posted August 20, 2012 Wonders if Threxx has at $1 Trillion bucks(i am serious) on the extensions? The would under his plan be way over 2 hour trip between CI and further into Queens. Maybe in Threxx world he has at $1 Trillion to pay for it. Plus dealing with neighbors in NIMBY land i.e in Bayside area. Wonders if Threxx would like if constructions was across the street from his house. await his reply. If it was going to benefit me in the end, then I wouldn't mind. With the new , some trains would turn at 2nd Avenue and more trains would turn at Kings Highway. There's no need for anyone to ride end-end, and all CI trains would continue to turn at 179th Street. I don't think this would be a trilion dollars, I think this would be more around 25 billion for everything, as all the extensions make use of existing track or are just 2 tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 20, 2012 Share #182 Posted August 20, 2012 If it was going to benefit me in the end, then I wouldn't mind. With the new , some trains would turn at 2nd Avenue and more trains would turn at Kings Highway. There's no need for anyone to ride end-end, and all CI trains would continue to turn at 179th Street. I don't think this would be a trilion dollars, I think this would be more around 25 billion for everything, as all the extensions make use of existing track or are just 2 tracks. So threxx if you lived near a queens construction it wont bother you? Hey you not working yet or never sleep right lol. Here video of issues of construction on 2nd ave. Maybe checkmate can confirm the price of all of the extensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #183 Posted August 20, 2012 So threxx if you lived near a queens construction it wont bother you? Hey you not working yet or never sleep right lol. Here video of issues of construction on 2nd ave. Maybe checkmate can confirm the price of all of the extensions. Of course it would bother me, but I'd endure it because the end result means better service... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted August 20, 2012 Share #184 Posted August 20, 2012 Ok, I just read through most of the stuff in this thread and I want to make a suggestion to those who keep offering suggestions to those who can't afford said travel options. Either help them pay for their commute or don't suggest said options at all.....nor should you make assumptions about how one's commute really is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY1635 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #185 Posted August 20, 2012 My ideas for extensions of the / , the , , and . https://maps.google....300914,0.615921 . Why build a Merrick Blvd Line when the MTA could just send the to Laurelton via LIRR Locust Branch ROW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #186 Posted August 20, 2012 . Why build a Merrick Blvd Line when the MTA could just send the to Laurelton via LIRR Locust Branch ROW? That is a second option, though I think a Merrick Blvd line would have more of an effect. I've added this as a second option for the . I think Lauerlton is too short as well, I sent it to Rosedale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #187 Posted August 20, 2012 Wonders if Threxx has at $1 Trillion bucks(i am serious) on the extensions? The would under his plan be way over 2 hour trip between CI and further into Queens. Maybe in Threxx world he has at $1 Trillion to pay for it. Plus dealing with neighbors in NIMBY land i.e in Bayside area. Wonders if Threxx would like if constructions was across the street from his house. await his reply. That's the issue here. These extensions sound great on paper but they would be costly and we simply can't afford them now or in the near future for that matter, not to mention the potential NIMBYs as you mentioned. Folks keep arguing that they would pay for themselves over time, but quite frankly the final costs for projects like these wouldn't really be known until the projects were completed. I find it funny that people keep saying well just get federal funds or do this or that like we've got money just sitting around for these things. Isn't as simple as they're making it sound. If that were the case, we'd be building subways in other parts of the city... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #188 Posted August 20, 2012 That's the issue here. These extensions sound great on paper but they would be costly and we simply can't afford them now or in the near future for that matter, not to mention the potential NIMBYs as you mentioned. Folks keep arguing that they would pay for themselves over time, but quite frankly the final costs for projects like these wouldn't really be known until the projects were completed. I find it funny that people keep saying well just get federal funds or do this or that like we've got money just sitting around for these things. Isn't as simple as they're making it sound. If that were the case, we'd be building subways in other parts of the city... It is the case, you can't just get federal funds from sitting on your a$$ and twiddling your thumbs. Most other parts of the city have good subway service, it's just the East Side of Manhattan and the East Side of Queens which need the serivce. As for NIMBY's, I only see a problem with the , and I think the problem will be Little Neck and Douglaston, not Bayside. The can be cut back to Springfield Blvd if necessary. They would pay for themselves over time. Look at how many people ride the Q12 and Q43. Move all those people to a subway, and you have profit. Or is it just that you'd rather see your precious express buses expanded rather than a solution that may be costly, but will pay off in the long term? Queens dosen't need stopgaps. It needs solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #189 Posted August 20, 2012 It is the case, you can't just get federal funds from sitting on your a$$ and twiddling your thumbs. Most other parts of the city have good subway service, it's just the East Side of Manhattan and the East Side of Queens which need the serivce. As for NIMBY's, I only see a problem with the , and I think the problem will be Little Neck and Douglaston, not Bayside. The can be cut back to Springfield Blvd if necessary. They would pay for themselves over time. Look at how many people ride the Q12 and Q43. Move all those people to a subway, and you have profit. Or is it just that you'd rather see your precious express buses expanded rather than a solution that may be costly, but will pay off in the long term? Queens dosen't need stopgaps. It needs solutions. No, it's that ramming subways down people's throats aren't solutions necessarily. One issue you keep forgetting is that the current subways in Queens take FOREVER so if anything instead of just extending these lines, some more express service should be given to the lines being proposed to speed up the commute otherwise. The and are already crowded enough, so certainly just extending these lines aren't enough. Queens needs alternatives, and not just people being crammed on subways, otherwise you'll have another line on your hands. Overcrowded and at capacity with no other options in sight... Grand idea right? Another idea is to have fast ferry service for some areas of Queens like they currently have in parts of Williamsburg. The service has done much better than expected and has taken off quite nicely, even with the higher fare. This love affair with subway service isn't the solution either, as if subways are the be all end all of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #190 Posted August 20, 2012 No, it's that ramming subways down people's throats aren't solutions necessarily. One issue you keep forgetting is that the current subways in Queens take FOREVER so if anything instead of just extending these stations, some more express service should be given to the lines being proposed to speed up the commute, otherwise. The and are already crowded enough so certainly just extending these lines aren't enough. Queens needs alternatives, and not just people being crammed on subways. The map is the tip of the iceberg for this plan, if this were to be constructed b/w 2015-2025 (a long time, but a long term solution that can be opened in phases with the extension opening by 2016) when QBL gets CBTC, and service would be increased, as well as special trains using the bypass to get to Manhattan. service would also be restructured to focus more on servicing Queens than Brooklyn (as Culver currently has a bit too much service). As for the , the best thing to do there is to make service at least 35 TPH and maybe try to install a second express track over the current three. But you have to be careful not to get whimsical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #191 Posted August 20, 2012 The map is the tip of the iceberg for this plan, if this were to be constructed b/w 2015-2025 (a long time, but a long term solution that can be opened in phases with the extension opening by 2016) when QBL gets CBTC, and service would be increased, as well as special trains using the bypass to get to Manhattan. service would also be restructured to focus more on servicing Queens than Brooklyn (as Culver currently has a bit too much service). As for the , the best thing to do there is to make service at least 35 TPH and maybe try to install a second express track over the current three. But you have to be careful not to get whimsical. Yeah and all of these ideas costs MONEY... LOTS of it... I mean you can only put but so many trains on a line and there is a point in which you max out capacity (i.e. Lexington Avenue line), so I'm sorry but the subway extensions should be a solution and NOT the solution. I strongly believe that improved local bus and express bus service MUST BE explored and I am currently looking at some express bus routes to see what can be done in terms of restoring them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q10 Airport Posted August 20, 2012 Share #192 Posted August 20, 2012 My ideas for extensions of the / , the , , and . https://maps.google....300914,0.615921 I know I said this in the "create your own subway line" thread, but there's no Jamaica Avenue extension? Out of all the corridors without a subway in Queens, Jamaica Avenue probably has the highest population density. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #193 Posted August 20, 2012 Yeah and all of these ideas costs MONEY... LOTS of it... I mean you can only put but so much trains on a line and there is a point in which you max out capacity (i.e. Lexington Avenue line), so I'm sorry but the subway extensions should be a solution and NOT the solution. It is a solution. At what point did I say that it was the only solution. And the bypass would allow the and to be at least 16 TPH (which they'd have to be) and the bypass is simply a conversion of LIRR tracks, so that can also open within 1-2 years. I know I said this in the "create your own subway line" thread, but there's no Jamaica Avenue extension? Out of all the corridors without a subway in Queens, Jamaica Avenue probably has the highest population density. I said this in that thread as well, the line isn't that far away for most of the extension, and the Q110 and Q36 service would obviously be increased (as Q43 service would be decreased) to make up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 20, 2012 Share #194 Posted August 20, 2012 No, it's that ramming subways down people's throats aren't solutions necessarily. One issue you keep forgetting is that the current subways in Queens take FOREVER so if anything instead of just extending these lines, some more express service should be given to the lines being proposed to speed up the commute otherwise. The and are already crowded enough, so certainly just extending these lines aren't enough. Queens needs alternatives, and not just people being crammed on subways, otherwise you'll have another line on your hands. Overcrowded and at capacity with no other options in sight... Grand idea right? Another idea is to have fast ferry service for some areas of Queens like they currently have in parts of Williamsburg. The service has done much better than expected and has taken off quite nicely, even with the higher fare. This love affair with subway service isn't the solution either, as if subways are the be all end all of everything. If anything (and that would be 15-20 years from now at the earliest)the only realstic subway line i can see being extended is the . Plus for areas like Bayside and NE Queens, a better bang for the buck to expand instead of the is increased Pt. Washington LIRR train service including adding a 2nd track between Pt. Washington and Great Neck for improved service. LIRR within Queens is much cheaper and should be explored more since the LIRR extension to Grand central is planned to open in 5-6 years. And again i stand by my earlier suggestion for a light rail bulit in Queens and other outerboro areas. If you look across North America (US and Canada)many light rail dont go to downtown corrdiors(which in NYC is either Midtown or Lower Manhattan)so someone like checkmate needs to be more open minded. If done right there should be more subway expansion in NYC. However it should be spent wisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #195 Posted August 20, 2012 It is a solution. At what point did I say that it was the only solution. And the bypass would allow the and to be at least 16 TPH (which they'd have to be) and the bypass is simply a conversion of LIRR tracks, so that can also open within 1-2 years. It's simple. You seem to be caught on the idea of all of the funding coming through for these subway extensions AND also being completed and no sorts of structural issues coming into play. Fast ferry service, improved local bus and express bus service are all things that can be done and at a reasonable cost. And please don't go giving me the subway moves so many people line. It's old already. If anything more should be done to make the LIRR more attractive in the meantime. I wouldn't change the base fare but I would consider restructuring monthly passes for example to make them more appealing. They should have student monthly passes as well on the LIRR. That makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 20, 2012 Share #196 Posted August 20, 2012 It's simple. You seem to be caught on the idea of all of the funding coming through for these subway extensions AND also being completed and no sorts of structural issues coming into play. Fast ferry service, improved local bus and express bus service are all things that can be done and at a reasonable cost. And please don't go giving me the subway moves so many people line. It's old already. If anything more should be done to make the LIRR more attractive in the meantime. I wouldn't change the base fare but I would consider restructuring monthly passes for example to make them more appealing. They should have student monthly passes as well on the LIRR. That makes a lot of sense. VG8 fast ferry service is not helpful if you live in Hollis, Springfield Gardens and other areas in SE Queens. Maybe for Little Neck/Douglaston since they live near the east river. And also not everyone is going to Manhattan. Thus a combo IMO of short turn more LIRR service, more SBS service and down the road 'light rail' and maybe an train extension makes the most sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #197 Posted August 20, 2012 It's simple. You seem to be caught on the idea of all of the funding coming through for these subway extensions AND also being completed and no sorts of structural issues coming into play. Fast ferry service, improved local bus and express bus service are all things that can be done and at a reasonable cost. And please don't go giving me the subway moves so many people line. It's old already. If anything more should be done to make the LIRR more attractive in the meantime. I wouldn't change the base fare but I would consider restructuring monthly passes for example to make them more appealing. When did I say that???? I'm all for having a civil discussion but stop twisting my words to help your argument. The only structural issues I can see coming into play is in Flushing and extending the from those bumper blocks. Ferry: It would be a good idea, if there was a river going through Queens.... Improved local and express bus service: The amount of people that need to be moved can only be accomplished by something like light rail/subway/ferry. I actually think that the following routes can and should become light rail corridors: Q5 (becomes L1) Q12 (becomes L2, this may be difficult in Flushing) Q43 (becomes L3) Q110 (becomes L4) The Q5, Q43 and Q110 could share a terminal in Jamaica, but Flushing would be hard to navigate for a light rail.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #198 Posted August 20, 2012 VG8 fast ferry service is not helpful if you live in Hollis, Springfield Gardens and other areas in SE Queens. Maybe for Little Neck/Douglaston since they live near the east river. And also not everyone is going to Manhattan. Thus a combo IMO of short turn more LIRR service, more SBS service and down the road 'light rail' and maybe an train extension makes the most sense. Yes, I'm aware of that. The point is that we need to make use of our waterways to take the strain off of subways and buses. Fast ferry service has been very successful in Williamsburg and has actually taken some of the strain off the train. That's my point. That's also why I said that the LIRR needs to have a restructured fare to make it more attractive to use. When did I say that???? I'm all for having a civil discussion but stop twisting my words to help your argument. The only structural issues I can see coming into play is in Flushing and extending the from those bumper blocks. Ferry: It would be a good idea, if there was a river going through Queens.... Improved local and express bus service: The amount of people that need to be moved can only be accomplished by something like light rail/subway/ferry. I actually think that the following routes can and should become light rail corridors: Q5 (becomes L1) Q12 (becomes L2, this may be difficult in Flushing) Q43 (becomes L3) Q110 (becomes L4) The Q5, Q43 and Q110 could share a terminal in Jamaica, but Flushing would be hard to navigate for a light rail.... I didn't say you said it. I said I don't want to hear that tired line because I'm sure some subway enthusiast will come along and bring it up as usual. I mean we need outside of the box ideas not ideas that cost a fortune to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 20, 2012 Share #199 Posted August 20, 2012 Yes, I'm aware of that. The point is that we need to make use of our waterways to take the strain off of subways and buses. Fast ferry service has been very successful in Williamsburg and has actually taken some of the strain off the train. That's my point. That's also why I said that the LIRR needs to have a restructured fare to make it more attractive to use. If you didn't notice, there is no river going through Southeast Queens, which is the topic of this thread, so that is no help there. And as Danny said himself, the LIRR isn't feasible for many because it just dosen't go where they want to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 20, 2012 Share #200 Posted August 20, 2012 If you didn't notice, there is no river going through Southeast Queens, which is the topic of this thread, so that is no help there. And as Danny said himself, the LIRR isn't feasible for many because it just dosen't go where they want to go... The topic says QUEENS, not Southeast Queens. The point is to address the entire borough, not just portions of it. There isn't just one solution... Multiple solutions are needed and your lovely subway extensions don't fulfill everyone's needs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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