Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #26 Posted October 10, 2012 In any case, you've mentioned it many times in the past how the unlimited riders have gotten hit harder, even though they haven't. You said the express bus fare should be raised to $7.50 while the unlimited pass gets a lower increase, just so you don't have to deal with "outsiders". You have a hard time moving on I see. Can we stay with the "now & current" or do we have to keep repeating over and over again what I said in this thread and that thread? If anyone wants to see what I've said in the past, I think they're very capable of looking through old threads. It's all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #27 Posted October 10, 2012 Either way we are all gonna get screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #28 Posted October 10, 2012 You have a hard time moving on I see. Can we stay with the "now & current" or do we have to keep repeating over and over again what I said in this thread and that thread? If anyone wants to see what I've said in the past, I think they're very capable of looking through old threads. It's all there. I figured I might as well make it easier for them. Besides, you know the saying: History repeats itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted October 10, 2012 Share #29 Posted October 10, 2012 What happened to the plans to reform the para transit system? That system eats up a ton of money, to the point that it is cheaper for the MTA to pay for cab rides for the elderly rather than dispatch a para transit van. They need to start charging the people that use it the same 2.25 that everybody else pays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #30 Posted October 10, 2012 What happened to the plans to reform the para transit system? That system eats up a ton of money, to the point that it is cheaper for the MTA to pay for cab rides for the elderly rather than dispatch a para transit van. They need to start charging the people that use it the same 2.25 that everybody else pays. They do charge them $2.25. The problem is that the cost to provide the service is a lot more than $2.25. In any case, I wonder how much revenue those ads on the MetroCards are bringing in (or projected to bring in) and what impact that had on the fare hikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted October 10, 2012 Share #31 Posted October 10, 2012 Sure, we are all struggling as new yorkers in this economy, but if you really crunch the numbers, a 30-day unlimited at 125 is still 10 dollars cheaper than 60 trips in a 30-day period at 2.25 per ride. And if you make more of those trips, it's even cheaper. gas is an average $5 a gallon across the country. And other transit systems don't even charge a flat fare. Before jumping on the "that's too much" bandwagon, ask people around 32 and older about when the fare was 75-90 cents and ask how service was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted October 10, 2012 Share #32 Posted October 10, 2012 Why not buy an unlimited? Cuz there becoming expensive as hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookiePhenom Posted October 10, 2012 Share #33 Posted October 10, 2012 Sure, we are all struggling as new yorkers in this economy, but if you really crunch the numbers, a 30-day unlimited at 125 is still 10 dollars cheaper than 60 trips in a 30-day period at 2.25 per ride. And if you make more of those trips, it's even cheaper. Yes. Your ride becomes free after roughly the 56th trip (which, if you ride often can be done in less than two weeks or so). In Chicago, where we've not had an increase in roughly 3 years (although our Suburban Service operates in conjunction), our $86 pass pays for itself around the 39th ride. An increase to any of the unlimited passes will hurt, but unless the pay-per-ride is significantly cheaper than the unlimited, stick to the monthly pass. gas is an average $5 a gallon across the country. Unless you live in Beverly Hills, that argument doesn't hold water. Average is $4. Chicago's normally the highest but it's leveled off. And other transit systems don't even charge a flat fare. True. Distance-based fares are some of the concepts that planners are looking into, perhaps in trying to recoup farebox recovery. Before jumping on the "that's too much" bandwagon, ask people around 32 and older about when the fare was 75-90 cents and ask how service was. When I was born in '85, the fare was 80¢. It was raised to $1 in 1988, $1.25 in 1990, and $1.50 in 1991 (we never saw an increase until 2004). Service was great to start with, but by 1997 it had started declining. This is not unusual across the country (although you've got exceptions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #34 Posted October 10, 2012 Sure, we are all struggling as new yorkers in this economy, but if you really crunch the numbers, a 30-day unlimited at 125 is still 10 dollars cheaper than 60 trips in a 30-day period at 2.25 per ride. And if you make more of those trips, it's even cheaper. gas is an average $5 a gallon across the country. And other transit systems don't even charge a flat fare. Before jumping on the "that's too much" bandwagon, ask people around 32 and older about when the fare was 75-90 cents and ask how service was. That's all fine and good but the problem is they're not cutting spending where they should be #1 and #2 enforce the friggin' fare!! The people paying the fare are the ones being hit the hardest while others freeload and the freeloading will just get worse as the fares continue to increase. The folks feeling it the most are local bus and subway riders especially. While I do feel that MetroNorth and LIRR riders are hit hard they can afford it and the same thing goes for regular express bus riders. I do feel however that express bus fares must be held at reasonable prices for the seniors who use them, as some lines have a large amount of seniors that need their express buses. If they want to champion how much they're cutting waste and bringing in the dollars, that's one place where many would argue that they haven't done enough in otherwise it doesn't make you look very credible. Cut back on the number of project managers they have instead of cutting service. There's an incredible amount of waste in the offices and I know because I worked in them. Instead they're cutting back on the number of cleaning agents but not enough consolidation in the actual offices. This is something that all offices are doing and the needs to follow suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted October 10, 2012 Share #35 Posted October 10, 2012 $76 dollars in 2008... possibly $125 in 2013? That's ridiculous. They have to be sitting on money SOMEWHERE. That's a nearly 65% increase, and in 5 years. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted October 10, 2012 Share #36 Posted October 10, 2012 Sure, we are all struggling as new yorkers in this economy, but if you really crunch the numbers, a 30-day unlimited at 125 is still 10 dollars cheaper than 60 trips in a 30-day period at 2.25 per ride. And if you make more of those trips, it's even cheaper. gas is an average $5 a gallon across the country. And other transit systems don't even charge a flat fare. Before jumping on the "that's too much" bandwagon, ask people around 32 and older about when the fare was 75-90 cents and ask how service was. Yes, but people might not have $125 to pay upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted October 10, 2012 Share #37 Posted October 10, 2012 But I think this points to sources of the MTA income. In other places, their transit systems are heavily subsidized by their governments. This might be unpopular, but what kind of tax revenue is going to the MTA? Can this be increased? Wasn't there an issue this summer with Metro North and a tax being repealed? Is this a reason why they have to raise fares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #38 Posted October 10, 2012 But I think this points to sources of the MTA income. In other places, their transit systems are heavily subsidized by their governments. This might be unpopular, but what kind of tax revenue is going to the MTA? Can this be increased? Wasn't there an issue this summer with Metro North and a tax being repealed? Is this a reason why they have to raise fares? It wasn't MetroNorth. It was Mangano out on Long Island. In any event, I think it's ridiculous to ask MetroNorth riders and LIRR riders to pay more when #1 folks can't even get a seat and #2 they're paying upwards of $10.00+ in some cases one way to stand on commuter trains as if they're riding the subway. MetroNorth & LIRR riders pay enough and the fare evasion isn't happening in the affluent areas that MetroNorth & LIRR serves. It's happening on the local buses and subways and that's a big problem right there. The tax revenue that the gets from these affluent communities should be balanced because as far as I'm concerned, when you've got millions in fare evasion you shouldn't be coming to these communities and expecting them to pay more on top of what they're already paying. Anytime the can't get their fiscal house in order, I suppose the answer is to stick it to the affluent communities, is that the idea? I saw Fernando Ferrer this morning who currently sits on the board... He commutes to work via MetroNorth from Riverdale. I wonder what he thinks about raising the fares on MetroNorth, even though I'm sure he gets a pass since he's on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concourse Express Posted October 10, 2012 Share #39 Posted October 10, 2012 It wasn't MetroNorth. It was Mangano out on Long Island. In any event, I think it's ridiculous to ask MetroNorth riders and LIRR riders to pay more when #1 folks can't even get a seat and #2 they're paying upwards of $10.00+ in some cases one way to stand on commuter trains as if they're riding the subway. MetroNorth & LIRR riders pay enough and the fare evasion isn't happening in the affluent areas that MetroNorth & LIRR serves. It's happening on the local buses and subways and that's a big problem right there. The tax revenue that the gets from these affluent communities should be balanced because as far as I'm concerned, when you've got millions in fare evasion you shouldn't be coming to these communities and expecting them to pay more on top of what they're already paying. Anytime the can't get their fiscal house in order, I suppose the answer is to stick it to the affluent communities, is that the idea? I saw Fernando Ferrer this morning who currently sits on the board... He commutes to work via MetroNorth from Riverdale. I wonder what he thinks about raising the fares on MetroNorth, even though I'm sure he gets a pass since he's on the board. Ferrer's on the board? Wow I've been out of the loop... ...anyhow, on fare evasion, so long as there's insufficient enforcement it'll regrettably continue. Perhaps stiffer fines would discourage some of it, but more enforcement is needed (e.g. more cops @ unmanned subway entrances, more Eagle Teams on +SBS, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #40 Posted October 10, 2012 Ferrer's on the board? Wow I've been out of the loop... ...anyhow, on fare evasion, so long as there's insufficient enforcement it'll regrettably continue. Perhaps stiffer fines would discourage some of it, but more enforcement is needed (e.g. more cops @ unmanned subway entrances, more Eagle Teams on +SBS, etc.) Yep... The funny thing is when I got on I didn't pay much attention, but then I started looking around and I'm like wait a minute that's Freddy right there... No one bothered him though. He had a kind of don't **** with me look anyway which I thought was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concourse Express Posted October 10, 2012 Share #41 Posted October 10, 2012 Yep... The funny thing is when I got on I didn't pay much attention, but then I started looking around and I'm like wait a minute that's Freddy right there... No one bothered him though. He had a kind of don't **** with me look anyway which I though was funny. Heh; he's probably seen more than his fair share of BS in his political career...'tis nice to know that he's still representing the BX in some form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #42 Posted October 10, 2012 Heh; he's probably seen more than his fair share of BS in his political career...'tis nice to know that he's still representing the BX in some form. lol... I doubt he considers himself representing the Bronx these days, but yeah, didn't yeah he was the Borough president of the Bronx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted October 10, 2012 Share #43 Posted October 10, 2012 Unless you live in Beverly Hills, that argument doesn't hold water. Average is $4. Chicago's normally the highest but it's leveled off. When I was born in '85, the fare was 80¢. It was raised to $1 in 1988, $1.25 in 1990, and $1.50 in 1991 (we never saw an increase until 2004). Service was great to start with, but by 1997 it had started declining. This is not unusual across the country (although you've got exceptions). Actually, with most of the East coast at about 4.50 a gallon, and California in some spots actually hitting $6, half the country will have to be below $4 a gallon for it to average $4. And in 1985, the fare was $0.90. It was never $0.80. It went from $0.75 to $0.90 on New Years of 84, then to $1 on New Years of 86, $1.15 in 90, $1.25 in 92 then to $1.50 in November of 95. It wasn't until May of 03 that they then raised it to $2. When I was born in '77, the fare was $0.50. Yes, but people might not have $125 to pay upfront. Some of us have trouble paying upfront for a 7-day. Welcome to bad economic times honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #44 Posted October 10, 2012 And in 1985, the fare was $0.90. It was never $0.80. It went from $0.75 to $0.90 on New Years of 84, then to $1 on New Years of 86, $1.15 in 90, $1.25 in 92 then to $1.50 in November of 95. It wasn't until May of 03 that they then raised it to $2. When I was born in '77, the fare was $0.50. He may be talking about Chicago and not New York... Some of us have trouble paying upfront for a 7-day. Welcome to bad economic times honestly. LOL... So which is it?? Is the fare hike not so bad or is it bad?? On the one hand you argue that the increase isn't that bad, but on the other hand you say that folks can't even afford a regular 7-day Unlimited card... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #45 Posted October 10, 2012 Sure, we are all struggling as new yorkers in this economy, but if you really crunch the numbers, a 30-day unlimited at 125 is still 10 dollars cheaper than 60 trips in a 30-day period at 2.25 per ride. And if you make more of those trips, it's even cheaper. gas is an average $5 a gallon across the country. And other transit systems don't even charge a flat fare. Before jumping on the "that's too much" bandwagon, ask people around 32 and older about when the fare was 75-90 cents and ask how service was. You shouldn't have to make 60 trips in order to break even. You should be able to break even at most after commuting to/from work for the month (so that would be around 40-44 trips per month). The PPR fare with a bonus right now is $2.10. The monthly pass should be no more than about $92 tops. When I was born in '85, the fare was 80¢. It was raised to $1 in 1988, $1.25 in 1990, and $1.50 in 1991 (we never saw an increase until 2004). Service was great to start with, but by 1997 it had started declining. This is not unusual across the country (although you've got exceptions). Are you talking about Chicago or NYC? Wasn't there an issue this summer with Metro North and a tax being repealed? Is this a reason why they have to raise fares? That was the payroll tax. I think it was like a 0.33% (one-third of one percent) tax on the employers out in the suburbs. I'm not sure if the employees would have to pay it as well or what. It wasn't MetroNorth. It was Mangano out on Long Island. See above. The tax revenue that the gets from these affluent communities should be balanced because as far as I'm concerned, when you've got millions in fare evasion you shouldn't be coming to these communities and expecting them to pay more on top of what they're already paying. Anytime the can't get their fiscal house in order, I suppose the answer is to stick it to the affluent communities, is that the idea? The tax revenue makes up for the lower cost recovery on the commuter rail system. Even with more farebeaters, the FRR still higher on the subway & local buses. So the MTA isn't "sticking it" to any particular group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #46 Posted October 10, 2012 That was the payroll tax. I think it was like a 0.33% (one-third of one percent) tax on the employers out in the suburbs. I'm not sure if the employees would have to pay it as well or what. I know what it is. He asked who challenged the tax and it was Ed Mangano who fought to have it repealed. The tax revenue makes up for the lower cost recovery on the commuter rail system. Even with more farebeaters, the FRR still higher on the subway & local buses. So the MTA isn't "sticking it" to any particular group. That's your opinion. Others think otherwise. These things go much further than calculating some numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted October 10, 2012 Share #47 Posted October 10, 2012 Just by looking at the post by OP alone I'd have to say this situation sucks all around. Twenty one dollars can go a way long father way then the MTA is claiming to go its slogan when it comes to fare hikes. Why is it that as a public benefits corperation that even as they recieve funding from the government in addition to the revenue made (from increased patterns of ridership in recent years) they have to impose steep fare hikes every other year? Aside from the mega progects, one that should have been done 80 years ago now from it's perception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #48 Posted October 10, 2012 Just by looking at the post by OP alone I'd have to say this situation sucks all around. Twenty one dollars can go a way long father way then the MTA is claiming to go its slogan when it comes to fare hikes. Why is it that as a public benefits corperation that even as they recieve funding from the government in addition to the revenue made (from increased patterns of ridership in recent years) they have to impose steep fare hikes every other year? Aside from the mega progects, one that should have been done 80 years ago now from it's perception? Simple... They can't keep a balanced budget. If they were really going after all of the potential money out there for them, they wouldn't have tons of vacant properties collecting dust that could be bringing them in more revenues. Instead they sit on properties with no tenants. Yes, they're getting less funding from the state, but despite them talking about being more fiscally sound, they still are cutting the wrong jobs and not doing enough in other areas to generate more money. I don't consider service cuts as being fiscally sound at all when you're destroying communities and helping to keep the economy stagnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted October 10, 2012 Share #49 Posted October 10, 2012 The chicago fare is realistic. A hike about $15 dollars will make unlimiteds go extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted October 10, 2012 Share #50 Posted October 10, 2012 I don't consider service cuts as being fiscally sound at all when you're destroying communities and helping to keep the economy stagnate. As a side point I always thought the cutting out of station agents was a big factor in what we are seeing today as a result through higher incidences of crime. In my opinion maybe the inner city communities may need to advocate for the existence of more MTA personel at out of boro stations. Of course these are pipe dreams but I'm just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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