DesignLine Commuter Coach Discussion

[Orion VII 4 Life]

 

 

Charlotte-based bus manufacturer DesignLine USA has been laying off workers as it struggles for funding, according to former employees and a letter sent to one of the workers.

 

The extent of the layoffs was not clear on Friday. A spokesman for the company declined to comment.

 

At the end of July, DesignLine closed down operations for 10 days and furloughed its workers.

 

In a letter to one of the terminated employees, CEO Joseph Smith said employees were being let go because of “lack of funding.” The company faced the withdrawal of an “imminent business/financial partner” and the nonpayment of past due invoices from clients, he wrote.

 

“It’s disgraceful that we are in the ‘banking’ capital of the richest country in the world, yet not one local bank has stepped forward to help its neighbor,” he wrote in the letter dated Tuesday and obtained by the Observer.

 

The company will “continue to search for a financial solution that will enable us to restart operations at which time we would like to rehire as many prior employees as possible,” the letter continues.

 

Employees were terminated effective July 31 – when the furloughs began – and benefits were not extended into August, according to the letter.

 

The firm’s headquarters and factory are off Westinghouse Boulevard, where about 250 employees produce the buses. The company has numerous contracts with cities and agencies around the country, including Charlotte Douglas International Airport.

 

DesignLine was the employer of former Mayor Anthony Foxx, who resigned both positions when he was confirmed as U.S. secretary of transportation. Foxx had served as deputy general counsel, making about $88,000 a year.

 

In recent years, the company has had several setbacks, including a lawsuit by the city of Baltimore alleging missed deadlines, a canceled contract with the Antelope Valley Transit Authority in California, and a bus that caught fire at the Charlotte airport.

 

The company was founded in New Zealand but moved its headquarters to Charlotte in 2006.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/08/09/4225593/bus-maker-designline-laying-off.html#storylink=cpy

Posted by Gold_12th on Subchat.

 

Not looking good for the company or NJT... we need to get ourselves out of this situation before they go belly up. 

[MTA Bus]

This might be the end of Designline. NJT better get their buses from them before they're in a sticky situation.

[DaTransitMan4608]

This might be the end of Designline. NJT better get their buses from them before they're in a sticky situation.

Well it's either wait for them to finish the ECOCoaches then cut DesignLine off for good, put out an emergency contract for CNG D4500CTs, or let the 70XXs spend some more time at NJT until some more money comes along.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Well it's either wait for them to finish the ECOCoaches then cut DesignLine off for good, put out an emergency contract for CNG D4500CTs, or let the 70XXs spend some more time at NJT until some more money comes along.

It looks like they have an agreement in place with some company to sell off the 7000s, so they might be under obligation to get all the buses to that company by a certain date unless something is worked out with them. Also, according to the ads posted by the company, the buses have recerted tanks, not sure if that's been done already by NJT and all the buses are recerted or if it's being done by the company. If they aren't already recerted the buses will have to go before the tank expiration, and I don't see the company recerting them and giving them back to Transit since they would be selling the buses with newly recerted (unused after recerting) tanks. If they're already recerted NJT can probably keep them for a while while things are worked out and a new order is made/built, that's as long as NJT isn't under an obligation to get all the buses to them by a certain date (which they probably are and could be late on already, since the DLs were all supposed to be here in May) and the company won't extend any deadlines.

 

Dumping the EcoCoaches is a win-win for Transit and the customers. Get out of the order and take action against DL, they're months late and are now closing down operations "temporarily", and get us new (or if necessary, temporary used) MCIs. If anything, keep the ones we have, I honestly would expect NJT to try and make DesignLine take them back like they did the MTA's because they're the lemons they are but if we don't, whatever, we have 13. I also really hope DesignLine doesn't rush as many buses up here as possible before they shut down, that would result in even worse build quality, but even if they do they shouldn't be able to get 60+ buses up here by then.

[DaTransitMan4608]

It looks like they have an agreement in place with some company to sell off the 7000s, so they might be under obligation to get all the buses to that company by a certain date unless something is worked out with them. Also, according to the ads posted by the company, the buses have recerted tanks, not sure if that's been done already by NJT and all the buses are recerted or if it's being done by the company. If they aren't already recerted the buses will have to go before the tank expiration, and I don't see the company recerting them and giving them back to Transit since they would be selling the buses with newly recerted (unused after recerting) tanks. If they're already recerted NJT can probably keep them for a while while things are worked out and a new order is made/built, that's as long as NJT isn't under an obligation to get all the buses to them by a certain date (which they probably are and could be late on already, since the DLs were all supposed to be here in May) and the company won't extend any deadlines.

 

Dumping the EcoCoaches is a win-win for Transit and the customers. Get out of the order and take action against DL, they're months late and are now closing down operations "temporarily", and get us new (or if necessary, temporary used) MCIs. If anything, keep the ones we have, I honestly would expect NJT to try and make DesignLine take them back like they did the MTA's because they're the lemons they are but if we don't, whatever, we have 13. I also really hope DesignLine doesn't rush as many buses up here as possible before they shut down, that would result in even worse build quality, but even if they do they shouldn't be able to get 60+ buses up here by then.

Well I hope NJT does something in response to all this..…

[Turbo19]

It'd be a shame to see Designline USA cease operation. I really saw potential in their transit buses.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

It'd be a shame to see Designline USA cease operation. I really saw potential in their transit buses.

Those POS hybrids had no potential and every order placed for them so far has failed. This new management continuing to focus on those POSes (as well as a brand-new unproven EcoCoach) and not straight diesel/CNG transit buses just made their situation much worse. Straight diesel or CNG, or even traditional hybrid (BAE or Allison) buses could've been a big success for them since you're taking the big problem with their buses (the turbine) out of the picture, but management continued to focus on this "environmental" BS instead of making buses with proven powertrains.

[Cait Sith]

Well I hope NJT does something in response to all this..…

 

There's not much they can do about it.

[Turbo19]

Those POS hybrids had no potential and every order placed for them so far has failed. This new management continuing to focus on those POSes (as well as a brand-new unproven EcoCoach) and not straight diesel/CNG transit buses just made their situation much worse. Straight diesel or CNG, or even traditional hybrid (BAE or Allison) buses could've been a big success for them since you're taking the big problem with their buses (the turbine) out of the picture, but management continued to focus on this "environmental" BS instead of making buses with proven powertrains.

On the contrary I applaud them. While they could have just as easily chose to focus on traditional fueled transit buses, Designline chose to go after an untapped market in the U.S. To say Designline was a complete failure is not anywhere near accurate, as in the time they've been in the U.S. they have moved forward and advanced forward in the market place by creating alternative fueled vehicles, which will only continue as time progresses.

[DaTransitMan4608]

There's not much they can do about it.

I figured they'd want to know where the rest of the buses they ordered are.

 

Those POS hybrids had no potential and every order placed for them so far has failed. This new management continuing to focus on those POSes (as well as a brand-new unproven EcoCoach) and not straight diesel/CNG transit buses just made their situation much worse. Straight diesel or CNG, or even traditional hybrid (BAE or Allison) buses could've been a big success for them since you're taking the big problem with their buses (the turbine) out of the picture, but management continued to focus on this "environmental" BS instead of making buses with proven powertrains.

I'll let Cait chime in on this one since I don't really know much about DesignLine's endeavors in the US.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

On the contrary I applaud them. While they could have just as easily chose to focus on traditional fueled transit buses, Designline chose to go after an untapped market in the U.S. To say Designline was a complete failure is not anywhere near accurate, as in the time they've been in the U.S. they have moved forward and advanced forward in the market place by creating alternative fueled vehicles, which will only continue as time progresses.

They gave it a shot, but the turbines proved to be a failure in the end. Meanwhile their all-electric bus is still in service in a few cities and seems to be doing OK, you would think they would really try to get business for fhose before New Flyer and BYD started getting all the orders in the all-electric field.

[Cait Sith]

Those POS hybrids had no potential and every order placed for them so far has failed. This new management continuing to focus on those POSes (as well as a brand-new unproven EcoCoach) and not straight diesel/CNG transit buses just made their situation much worse. Straight diesel or CNG, or even traditional hybrid (BAE or Allison) buses could've been a big success for them since you're taking the big problem with their buses (the turbine) out of the picture, but management continued to focus on this "environmental" BS instead of making buses with proven powertrains.

 

Not every order, that's a hell of a lot of over exaggeration. There's only two that failed. The rest are still running in active service in Denver, Charlotte(which is a given), and a few other places worldwide.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

I figured they'd want to know where the rest of the buses they ordered are.

 

And now they're shutting down operations in the middle of a contract they're already extremely late on.

Not every order, that's a hell of a lot of over exaggeration. There's only two that failed. The rest are still running in active service in Denver, Charlotte(which is a given), and a few other places worldwide.

The ones at Charlotte airport are the all electric model. (Even Charlotte's TA opted to not order buses from them because they were so unproven) Denver's seem to be running a very short loop shuttle service and not so much a city bus service.

 

The buses elsewhere in the world (which are now part of a separate operation) are built very differently on a MAN chassis with I believe a different hybrid drive system.

[DaTransitMan4608]

And now they're shutting down operations in the middle of a contract they're already extremely late on.

The ones at Charlotte airport are the all electric model. Denver's seem to be running a very short loop shuttle service and not so much a city bus service.

 

The buses elsewhere in the world (which are now part of a separate operation) are built very differently on a MAN chassis with I believe a different hybrid drive system.

Well I wouldn't say they're extremely late. 7202 was due in November 2012. The rest weren't supposed to start being delivered until March 2013. Like I said before, 7214+ could already be here. The only ways you could find out are to, spend a whole evening on Route 9, go to the Prevost facility in Piscataway (that ones probably your best bet since they're an acceptance facility for coaches), or spend some time at the PABT (41st & Dyer, I believe. i think that's where Cait gets his shots.) during PM rush before coming back to NJ.

[Cait Sith]

Well I wouldn't say they're extremely late. 7202 was due in November 2012. The rest weren't supposed to start being delivered until March 2013. Like I said before, 7214+ could already be here. The only ways you could find out are to, spend a whole evening on Route 9, go to the Prevost facility in Piscataway (that ones probably your best bet since they're an acceptance facility for coaches), or spend some time at the PABT (41st & Dyer, I believe. i think that's where Cait gets his shots.) during PM rush before coming back to NJ.

 

Or the Cummins facility out in NJ, I saw a few over there for some odd reason sometime ago. But then again, they looked extremely fresh.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Or the Cummins facility out in NJ, I saw a few over there for some odd reason sometime ago. But then again, they looked extremely fresh.

Is that the one up in the Rutherford area?

[Cait Sith]

Is that the one up in the Rutherford area?

 

I'm not exactly sure of where, but I know I saw it and them when I was on the x17J.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Is that the one up in the Rutherford area?

 

I'm not exactly sure of where, but I know I saw it and them when I was on the x17J.

Pretty sure that's the one by 15E over there in Kearney or wherever that is. I pass it all the time on the 139 but never noticed anything there.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Pretty sure that's the one by 15E over there in Kearney or wherever that is. I pass it all the time on the 139 but never noticed anything there.

I just found it on google maps. It's up there in Newark on Doremus Ave.

[w8Hou]

NJ Transit wants its money back since Designline go into Chapter 11: http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=282204

 

Should have gone to MCI.

[DJ MC]

NJ Transit wants its money back since Designline go into Chapter 11: http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=282204

 

Should have gone to MCI.

 

Things happen. 

[Orion VII 4 Life]

NJ Transit wants its money back since Designline go into Chapter 11: http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=282204

 

Should have gone to MCI.

HAHAHA BYEBYE ECOSHIT!

 

With 11-13 buses already delivered I wonder what NJT is planning on doing with them, they really should have acted on the seat/underbody luggage compartment problems when DL was still in operation.

 

Meanwhile, I really wonder what will happen now, if MCI will get the contract or if they will have to go order used buses as an emergency contract and award the 76 CNGs later.

[Turbo19]

I've already said it, but it is hilarious that this seems to be an exact similar situation of NJT and MTS.

 

Actually, if I were to factor NABI then it could apply there as well. They by chance got bought out.

 

I blame NJT.

[go25]

It seems that NJT will never learn from their mistakes (MTS sounds familiar) as stated above.

 

All it takes is NJT to not only burn itself, but blow the bridges up in terms of deciding bus makers to replace proven products (MCIs, Flxibles before they went bankrupt , hell even the Novas).

[Cait Sith]

There is nothing there that states that NJ Transit wants their money back. Chapter 11 means they can still do their operations while paying off their creditors.